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Old 01-04-2014, 05:24 PM    (permalink
SolidGold
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Originally Posted by RaiderNation View Post
The competition between Bortles and Manziel to be the #2 QB drafted will be great to watch, I think Hundley is staying in school. The Jags, Browns and Raiders all need QB's at 3rd-5th overall picks and I'd think at least 1 is drafted, likely both in a QB needy league
I don't think Bridgewater is a shoein for the number one overall pick. A lot can happen between now any the draft much like last year when everyone had Geno Smith going 1st overall.
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Bridgewater is a shoein for the number one overall pick. A lot can happen between now any the draft much like last year when everyone had Geno Smith going 1st overall.
I get your point but Geno did that too himself with his play...not his testing. Teddy never dropped in play as drastically as Geno did.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Yes, anything can happen, but Geno Smith was a much different prospect than Teddy Bridgewater. Geno Smith was perceived as simply the best of a mediocre crop of quarterbacks. There were a lot of questions as to whether he could adapt to a pro style offense, did he have the mental make-up to be a successful NFL starter, etc.

Bridgewater is pretty universally perceived as a great quarterback prospect in his own right, not simply being the best at his position this year. He's hailed for his intelligence, his accuracy, his mechanics, etc. The only notable negative for him seems to be his size, which its hard to imagine a team valuing too much.

Simply put, Bridgewater does not remotely compare to Geno as a prospect.
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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Bridgewater is not universally or even widely considered a great QB prospect
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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He's not a great prospect in the likes of Luck but Bridgewater is easily talented enough be the top pick in this draft. Can't see Houston going another way at ten top which is why Bortles is now in consideration this highly.
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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I think Houston ends up taking either Bortles or Manziel myself.
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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I think Houston ends up taking either Bortles or Manziel myself.
I think they would if they could trade down a bit. If they can finesse a Bortles/Manziel and a Khalil Mack out of this draft I'd say job well done.
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Has Bortles even declared yet?
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Has Bortles even declared yet?
He has not but he did receive a first round grade from the draft advisory committee
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Bridgewater is not universally or even widely considered a great QB prospect
Uh, since when?
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Uh, since when?
Was thinking the same thing.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen much of anyone say he's a great prospect. Almost everyone universally says he's not on the level of a Luck,RGIII or even Bradford/STafford as a QB. He's the best of a bad group. He's a mixed bag of plusses and minuses IMO. His arm strength and athleticism are average and above average respectively, the level of competition he's faced is sub par and his body type is a concern.

I definitely like his accuracy, mechanics,intelligence and character though. I don't hate the guy as a prospect by any means. I just don't think he's the surefire #1 pick type.

If its me, I"m taking Manziel, who I've seen show off some unrivaled abilities against top notch competition. Not to mention he's a star in Texas who would sell out every game.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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I'd say hes absolutely on par with or even better than Bradford...

...yes lets take a guy number 1 to sell tickets. Get out of here.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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I'd say hes absolutely on par with or even better than Bradford...

...yes lets take a guy number 1 to sell tickets. Get out of here.
Yes, because that was my #1 and only point. Nice.

All I'm saying is, if you are a "universally great" prospect, and a QB needy team is picking #1 overall, there isn't this much questioning of who will go #1. Nobody wondered if the Colts would take Kalil over Luck. TB is a very good prospect.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Yes, because that was my #1 and only point. Nice.

All I'm saying is, if you are a "universally great" prospect, and a QB needy team is picking #1 overall, there isn't this much questioning of who will go #1. Nobody wondered if the Colts would take Kalil over Luck. TB is a very good prospect.
I LOVE watching Manziel play, but hes not the type of guy who is going to turn around a franchise. Houston can still run the ball and has weapons to help take the pressure off of Teddy as a rookie. Run the ball, throw off play action...good formula for a rookie. If you have to drop back and pass I'll take Teddy over Manziel. I think JFF will have a role in the NFL, but it wont be as a franchise saving QB. So in the end you are making the pick for ticket sales.

Teddy is on par or better than Bradford and Ryan...and like I said earlier...I guarantee the Phins would redo that draft and take Ryan over Long if they had the chance.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 01-05-2014, 05:40 AM    (permalink
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Can Manziel handle a complex pro style offense? That's what O'Brien will have in Houston.
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Old 01-05-2014, 07:42 AM    (permalink
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Has he exhibited any behavior that depicts he can't grasp NFL concepts?
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Old 01-05-2014, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Has he exhibited any behavior that depicts he can't grasp NFL concepts?
Yes. Namely, the ability to take a snap, go through a 3 or 5 step drop, step up in the pocket, and fire a dart on a 15 yard dig route. Standard 3rd and long play.

Can he do it physically? Yes.

Does he have the patience/presence to let complex route progressions develop? No, not at this point. He routinely bails on clean pockets for no reason because he is a scrambler at heart. When he has to sit in the pocket he begins to look anxious and jumpy, and often his mechanics go to hell as well, which is not acceptable for a guy his size without the natural arm strength to overcome poor mechanics.
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Old 01-05-2014, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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UCF is having a parade at Disney World on the 12th. If he is staying, expect him to make the announcement there. If no announcement is made by about four on the 12th, he is almost certainly going pro but won't announce until the last minute.

Edit: There is also an on-campus pep rally on the eight. He could also announce he's coming bqck then.
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Old 01-05-2014, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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Yes. Namely, the ability to take a snap, go through a 3 or 5 step drop, step up in the pocket, and fire a dart on a 15 yard dig route. Standard 3rd and long play.

Can he do it physically? Yes.

Does he have the patience/presence to let complex route progressions develop? No, not at this point. He routinely bails on clean pockets for no reason because he is a scrambler at heart. When he has to sit in the pocket he begins to look anxious and jumpy, and often his mechanics go to hell as well, which is not acceptable for a guy his size without the natural arm strength to overcome poor mechanics.

You're repeating the standard critiques about Manziel, but not actually evaluating how he played this past season.

Manziel had no problem playing from the pocket for A&M this season and making accurate throws. I have yet to see his mechanics 'go to hell' in any game.

Yeah on the run Manziel has different release points but it's not like that's a negative.

Whoever drafts Manziel really needs to believe in him and tailor their offense to develop his overall skillset while limiting his wild off-schedule runs which eventually will put him IR.

People IMO still don't trust him because of his size, although he's a far better QB overall than his predecessor Ryan Tannehill.
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Old 01-05-2014, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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You're repeating the standard critiques about Manziel, but not actually evaluating how he played this past season.

Manziel had no problem playing from the pocket for A&M this season and making accurate throws. I have yet to see his mechanics 'go to hell' in any game.

Yeah on the run Manziel has different release points but it's not like that's a negative.

Whoever drafts Manziel really needs to believe in him and tailor their offense to develop his overall skillset while limiting his wild off-schedule runs which eventually will put him IR.

People IMO still don't trust him because of his size, although he's a far better QB overall than his predecessor Ryan Tannehill.
Manziel has improved across the board as a pocket passer this season but he' still pretty raw IMO. While gophervike may have exaggerated his weaknesses a bit, Manziel does still have a tendency to give up on plays and scramble out of clean pockets. For a guy with durability concerns that's definitely something he's going to have to work on.

The strides Manziel has made this year make me optimistic about his ability to succeed in the NFL and personally I hope he does because he's the most exciting player in football. With that said, he still has a long way to go as a QB IMO.
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Bortles is declaring.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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Bortles is declaring.
Smart move, particularly with Hundley's decision.
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Bortles is declaring.
Gotta be mixed emotions for you. He ends up in Chicago all will be good again.
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Old 01-05-2014, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Gotta be mixed emotions for you. He ends up in Chicago all will be good again.
He won't fall that far I bet. During the Fiesta Bowl, we decided to go to their game in Ireland if he came back or go to at least one of his NFL games if he declares. Tennessee would be convenient. Hopefully he goes to JAX though since they are my second team.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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