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Old 01-10-2014, 01:08 AM    (permalink
JohnCandy
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Default Can Stephen Tuitt Play in a 4-3?

Stephen Tuitt to me is one of the more interesting prospects in this years draft.

He obviously has more than ideal size and power.

But his athleticism and movement seem to have been called into question. I wonder how much of it was the sports hernia surgery, which can be a difficult injury to come back from, and the added weight from the lack of training.

I wonder if we will see the 2012 Tuitt at the combine?

Is Tuitt strictly a 5 technique player of can he play the DT in a 4-3?

Is Tuitt worthy of a 1st round pick?
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:26 AM    (permalink
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I think so, I compare him to Justin Tuck as a big, physical DL that can play all 4 positions at times. May not be a extremely dominant stat player but can really effect the game his versatility.
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:13 AM    (permalink
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I think he can, but seems to more effective on the OT's outside shoulder. Think he's a bit linear - bit tight in the hips/knees - looks like he can move really well for a big man, but change of direction and playing too high are concerns. Look forward to seeing his combine numbers - would expect his lateral agility number to be low (40 time - shuttle time).
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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He'd be perfect in the Red Bryant role in Seattle's 4-3 under type of defense.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if either Seattle or Jacksonville drafted this guy.
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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He could be a cover 2 DT that teams covet. Hes very similar to cam heyward, he could play all over
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Old 01-10-2014, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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I think I like him more as a 4-3 DE (ala Red Bryant) more than I like him as a 4-3 UT, at least right now. I think he would get swallowed up against the run, and I don't think he's quite the pass rusher to really exploit the 3-gap. But I think he can be a huge asset against the run facing a tackle instead of a guard/center combo. And I actually think he can rush the passer off the edge. A bullrush against a guy who may actually be smaller than him, could be devastating, especially if he stops being so "outside happy" and goes inside the tackle.

Working with a good DL coach, I could see him being able to play anything he wants on the D-Line.
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Old 01-10-2014, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Default

Who would you compare him too?

Justin Tuck
Marcus Stroud
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Old 01-10-2014, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Maybe like Tyson Alualu for me in that he will be overdrafted, eventually end up as a disappointing jumbo end in a 4-3. Pass rushing ability is only impressive relative to his weight, run defense is well below-average for a guy with his size.
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Not to say he couldn't but he shouldn't. In no way should he be a DE in a 40 and it's bizarre to me that people are projecting him there. At the same time he hasn't been an overly effective gap-controlling interior player either. He could be a pass rushing 3-tech I suppose in the right scheme but he seems almost exclusively built to be a DE in an odd front.
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:07 AM    (permalink
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Tuitt's an interesting player. I think he's probably best suited to stick at around 285 and play a 5 tech, as he showed he wasn't able to be the same dominant player at a higher weight. My only concern with that statement is he gained the weight because he wasn't able to train. If he were to train and get up to 300, 305 would he regain the explosion and dominance he had as a sophomore?
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Old 01-13-2014, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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I just don't see what he's going to excel at in the NFL. He's a finesse rusher which he can't be in the NFL. He's a mid rounder based on upside. I think he's going to be a 5 tech and not much of one in the NFL.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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I don't agree with you at all regoob. If 6'6", 300lbs projected to run an easy sub 5 in the 40 at 20 years old, doesn't scream upside I don't know what does.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawdawg View Post
I don't agree with you at all regoob. If 6'6", 300lbs projected to run an easy sub 5 in the 40 at 20 years old, doesn't scream upside I don't know what does.
If that means more to you then what he does on the field then that's fine.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Maybe like Tyson Alualu for me in that he will be overdrafted, eventually end up as a disappointing jumbo end in a 4-3. Pass rushing ability is only impressive relative to his weight, run defense is well below-average for a guy with his size.
This assessment is most accurate of the ones ive observed
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Yes, because Tuitt hasn't shown anything on the field. It's not like he has 18 sacks and 80 tackles over the last 2 years, numbers very impressive for a 3-4 DE.

And you're the one who was talking about upside. I was just piggybacking off of your comment. It's pretty clear he has upside and has shown a bunch on the field.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Yes, because Tuitt hasn't shown anything on the field. It's not like he has 18 sacks and 80 tackles over the last 2 years, numbers very impressive for a 3-4 DE.
That doesn't mean he projects well to the NFL. He also didn't always play in a 3-4. He play inside and outside in the 4 man fronts.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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I think he can play in a 4-3 Defense, but it's like playing Anthony Barr in a 4-3....pointless. You're essentially taking away what makes him a 1st-2nd round talent and drafting off potential.

In the 4-3, he would need to drop some weight and work on quickness for DE, or gain strength and attitude and play lower for a DT position.

He reminds me of a poor mans Kevin Carter. Kevin was about the same height as what I predict Tuitt will measure in at, but was more athletic at 274 pounds. Over time, Kevin lost some quickness and made a permanent move to the middle. Tuitts athleticism reminds me more of a 29 year old Kevin Carter, if he was given the chance to play 4-3 DE I think he would eventually also have to move to the DT position, or a 3-4 DE in his career.

The best thing that Tuitt can do IMO is go into the combine weighing around 280 and show some more athleticism than people think he has. This is about the only way I see many 4-3 teams having interest in him in the 1st round
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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That's my point with Tuitt. He needs to completely change his weight and how he plays the game to be effective in the NFL. That's a lot to ask. He has ability but I'm not sold he put it together and even if he does put it together I don't think he'll ever be a good pass rusher.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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You said he had mid-round upside. To which I responded with the fact that he's huge, a freak athlete and will be one of the youngest players drafted in May. Then you go to on the field, like I'm the one that is basing everything on upside.

I don't know what more to say if you think a guy with those measurements and 18 sacks in 2 years is a mid-rounder.

This is not to say he's a sure-fire stud. I think he has some of the highest bust potential in this draft. But I don't know how you can dispute the upside. If a 6'6", 300lb guy that runs 4.9 ish can get stronger and can learn better technique and more pass rush moves....he's a top 5 defensive player in the league.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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You said he had mid-round upside. To which I responded with the fact that he's huge, a freak athlete and will be one of the youngest players drafted in May. Then you go to on the field, like I'm the one that is basing everything on upside.

I don't know what more to say if you think a guy with those measurements and 18 sacks in 2 years is a mid-rounder.

This is not to say he's a sure-fire stud. I think he has some of the highest bust potential in this draft. But I don't know how you can dispute the upside. If a 6'6", 300lb guy that runs 4.9 ish can get stronger and can learn better technique and more pass rush moves....he's a top 5 defensive player in the league.
I'm saying he has upside but it's not that high. I don't see a potential pro bowler even if he puts it together. I'm a huge ND fan. ND is my favorite team. But Tuitt isn't the guy he's made out to be. ND also plays cupcakes quite often. When Tuitt has faced better talent he's been dominated.

Tuitt will never be a top 5 defensive player in the NFL. That's just crazy. I'm not sold he will be a top 5 defender on his team.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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I think Tuitt could play either DE or DT in a 4-3.

That's not to say it's his best position and he's never going to be a dynamic edge rusher.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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7 tackles, 2 sacks vs. USC this year in a game he absolutely dominated. I thought USC, Michigan St, Arizona St were his best games this year. Had the great TD vs. Michigan. Had a solid game vs. Stanford last year. Hell, he played well generally in 2012 against a pretty decent schedule.

Oh and I was born and raised in South Bend. I'm surprisingly ambivalent toward Notre Dame. But I've seen 85% of their games probably the last 20 years.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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He just seems extremely slow off the line for me. I really soured on him a lot. I used to be intrigued but not anymore.
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawdawg View Post
7 tackles, 2 sacks vs. USC this year in a game he absolutely dominated. I thought USC, Michigan St, Arizona St were his best games this year. Had the great TD vs. Michigan. Had a solid game vs. Stanford last year. Hell, he played well generally in 2012 against a pretty decent schedule.

Oh and I was born and raised in South Bend. I'm surprisingly ambivalent toward Notre Dame. But I've seen 85% of their games probably the last 20 years.
I missed the USC game but he was dominated against Michigan.

If you want the oversized LE that can play inside I like Taylor Hart from Oregon. I think he's a better player then Tuitt.
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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Something to keep in mind with Tuitt is that he wasn't in prime condition as a junior. Underwent surgery last offseason and wasn't able to train properly. Began the year at 323 pounds but gradually rounded back into form and looked better as the season went along. That could explain the lack of explosiveness in 2013. Ideally he is going to play at between 300-310 pounds.
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