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Old 01-10-2014, 03:01 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I think YPC is a little tricky sometimes. Bettis played the majority of his career vs 8 and 9 man boxes that knew exactly what was coming. That's gonna drop your YPC.

His low TD numbers are a little alarming. I don't know. He's Hall of Very Good, not Hall of Fame.

The only position where Very Good = Hall of Fame is qb, all the other positions pretty much are held to a different standard, at least I hope.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand why there are so many people who think Bettis is better than Davis. I would never put Bettis in the hall of fame, but he played for a long time and he had a cool nickname so he'll get in.
I dont think bettis is hall worthy this early, but way to completely underrate him. You must just be thinking about the last few years in the mid 2000s when he was 280 pounds and a goal line back....he was a really special player, he had unreal footwork and vision for a guy that size, no one has even come close to showing that kind of ability for a big back at 240+ pounds

He wasnt always a fat ass though, he was a BEAST coming out of ND and for the prime of his career. Hes got the yards, 91 TDs, a ring, and the years to be considered better than davis, and he alsmot never turned the ball over
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
To be fair, I do think that longevity is an underappreciated characteristic of the RB position.

To take the toll they take and play for as long as Bettis did is a testament to his ability. It shouldn't hurt him or help him with his candidacy bc while the longevity elevates his total production, it should be celebrated that he was able to play for so long in such a demanding position as well.

But I still don't think he's a HOF player bc he just wasn't all that special to me. He epitomized 3 yards and a cloud of dust, and we're rewarding him for nostalgia more than his ability.
Durability can be unappreciated, but sometimes that's also just a matter of luck that someone like Bettis or Curtis Martin never had another player roll into their knee and tear an acl or something like that.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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4 seasons over 4 YPC in 13 seasons isn't special. Being borderline worthless in the passing game isn't special. 2 seasons over 10 TD's in 13 seasons for a guy that should seemingly be a stud goal line back isn't special.

Bettis being a fan favorite probably had more of an impact in him playing for as long as he did.
Right.

You can't cut me coach. The FANS love me!


Bettis is still 10th alltime in rush TDs, more than guys like Eric Dickerson, Dorsett and Earl Campbell.

I'll be glad when he finally gets in, like when Curtis Martin was finally enshrined so fans can stop hating on him.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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I dont think bettis is hall worthy this early, but way to completely underrate him. You must just be thinking about the last few years in the mid 2000s when he was 280 pounds and a goal line back....he was a really special player, he had unreal footwork and vision for a guy that size, no one has even come close to showing that kind of ability for a big back at 240+ pounds

He wasnt always a fat ass though, he was a BEAST coming out of ND and for the prime of his career. Hes got the yards, the TDs, the ring, and the years to be considered better than davis, and he alsmot never turned the ball over

He can have all the footwork and vision he wants, if it didn't translate to actual production I don't really care.

But hey, if you guys think that one 3 yards and a cloud of dust RB is better than any other, go ahead.

Fact is that if he spent his career in Arizona or Kansas City he wouldn't be viewed the way he is.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Right.

You can't cut me coach. The FANS love me!


Bettis is still 10th alltime in rush TDs, more than guys like Eric Dickerson, Dorsett and Earl Campbell.

I'll be glad when he finally gets in, like when Curtis Martin was finally enshrined so fans can stop hating on him.

You really don't get why people buying his jersey/memorabilia would impact his longevity in Pittsburgh? Really?

I don't care about all time rush TD's. If a guy gets 2 TD's a year for 100 years and becomes the all time leader that doesn't impress me.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Durability can be unappreciated, but sometimes that's also just a matter of luck that someone like Bettis or Curtis Martin never had another player roll into their knee and tear an acl or something like that.
You don't think Bettis had another player roll up on his knee/ankle before??
You don't think he's f-ed up is ACL/MCL/PCL throughout his career???

I agree that durability isn't necessarily a choice, but it is a special trait. Like first step quickness for a pass rusher, deep speed for a WR or leaping ability for a cornerback.

Typically we reward those players who can maximize their special abilities and put up HOF numbers.

If a DE consistently cannot be blocked one one for his entire career, there's a chance that guy becomes a HOFer.

Any RB who can carry the ball 3400+ times for over 13600 yards in a 13 year career is serious candidate for Canton IMO.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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He can have all the footwork and vision he wants, if it didn't translate to actual production I don't really care.

But hey, if you guys think that one 3 yards and a cloud of dust RB is better than any other, go ahead.

Fact is that if he spent his career in Arizona or Kansas City he wouldn't be viewed the way he is.
That is how it was then though, and he was running against an 8 man front all the time.

You can also say that if he played in arizona or KC davis wouldnt be viewed the same either...you know, since he ran in a proven system that has given the likes of tatum bell, mike bell, mike anderson, selvin young, steve slaton 1000+ yard seasons.

Also, i think bettis is an eventual HOFer, but not for a long time...definitely steeler HOF just like ward, but canton? Meh.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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If a guy gets 2 TD's a year for 100 years and becomes the all time leader that doesn't impress me.
Playing one hundred years in the NFL is kinda impressive.

So is averaging 2 TDs a season after the age of say, 60 years old, and then doing it for the next ....sixty years!!!

I would love to see a 90 year old take it to the house twice a year.

1st ballot HOFer.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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You don't think Bettis had another player roll up on his knee/ankle before??
You don't think he's f-ed up is ACL/MCL/PCL throughout his career???

I agree that durability isn't necessarily a choice, but it is a special trait. Like first step quickness for a pass rusher, deep speed for a WR or leaping ability for a cornerback.

Typically we reward those players who can maximize their special abilities and put up HOF numbers.

If a DE consistently cannot be blocked one one for his entire career, there's a chance that guy becomes a HOFer.

Any RB who can carry the ball 3400+ times for over 13600 yards in a 13 year career is serious candidate for Canton IMO.
I think there's absolutely a difference between durability and being able to avoid serious injuries in your career. Extreme example, but there's not much durability could have done to prevent an injury like Willis McGahee's
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Playing one hundred years in the NFL is kinda impressive.

So is averaging 2 TDs a season after the age of say, 60 years old, and then doing it for the next ....sixty years!!!

I would love to see a 90 year old take it to the house twice a year.

1st ballot HOFer.
Even if his team could have moved on after 95 of those years and been equally fine, or even better off? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Even if his team could have moved on after 95 of those years and been equally fine, or even better off? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Let the 100 year analogy go. It's too confusing.

When should the Steelers have cut Bettis??
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Never really said they should have cut him. I sure as hell wouldn't have continued to resign him for the money they gave him though.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Morten *clap clap, clap clap clap* Andersen!! **** everybody else this year!!
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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I think there's absolutely a difference between durability and being able to avoid serious injuries in your career. Extreme example, but there's not much durability could have done to prevent an injury like Willis McGahee's
Yeah but being durable is about more than luck. It has more to do with a particular player's physiology and his individual pain tolerance.

The ability to take multiple hits by the biggest and strongest players on defense, carry after carry, game after game, year after year, is a unique and required trait for RBs.

Bettis definitely sustained injuries throughout his career. No he did not have a devastating injury on the level of Willis McGahee.
But I don't think that's entirely chance either since I know Bettis didn't play with knee braces and was tackled countless times with a helmet into his knees.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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I think that TD is a HOFer.

You know why? Two words: Dwight Stephenson.

The ex-Dolphin center played from 1980-87.

He didn't become the starter until the end of the strike-shortened 1982 season, though, and he only really started four and a half full seasons before he had his career ended by Marty Lyons in 1987.

Guess what: He is in the Hall of Fame.

If he is in, TD should be in as well.

Gradishar and Atwater should be in as well.

Gradishar probably will get in eventually via the senior route, but he should have been in long ago.

The most egregious snub was in 2008, when they voted Fred Dean in over him, who didn't have credentials as good as Randy's.

In my opinion, he was voted in over Randy because he played for two of the 49er SB teams in the 80's, and the media loves those teams.

As for Atwater, his chances don't seem too good, even though he has the credentials.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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i just don't even care if TD gets in anymore. bettis being in the conversation and martin being in make it clear that, for a rb, being nominated or getting in is a joke.

jerome bettis was NEVER the best running back in the nfl. he should be excluded immediately on that basis alone. or maybe y'all should start vociferously arguing for vinny testaverde's inclusion, since he's 10th on the TD list, and must've been an incredible player to avoid injury for so long. no? how about dave krieg. no? oh right, it's because the argument for longevity meaning anything is bad.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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I think YPC is a little tricky sometimes. Bettis played the majority of his career vs 8 and 9 man boxes that knew exactly what was coming. That's gonna drop your YPC.
But if the quarterback completes a long pass against the stacked box because of less safety help, part of that is a great running back making it an eight man box (especially if he pass blocks on the play). That's why it's hard for a layman to judge football players; the complexity of the sport often hides the effect a player has on the game.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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i just don't even care if TD gets in anymore. bettis being in the conversation and martin being in make it clear that, for a rb, being nominated or getting in is a joke.

jerome bettis was NEVER the best running back in the nfl. he should be excluded immediately on that basis alone. or maybe y'all should start vociferously arguing for vinny testaverde's inclusion, since he's 10th on the TD list, and must've been an incredible player to avoid injury for so long. no? how about dave krieg. no? oh right, it's because the argument for longevity meaning anything is bad.
Martin was never elite, and Bettis was elite for only three years (1993, 96, and 97). Jerome also made the Pro Bowl in 94, 01, and 04, but he wasn't that impressive those seasons. He didn't even rush for 1,000 yards in 04, and he only had six receptions that year.

After looking at those stats, and my Dwight Stephenson comparison, I am more convinced than ever that TD should be in the Hall.

Also, as for Testaverde, he did play a long time, and he was a Patriot, so maybe they will elect him because the media loves New England .
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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If Terrell Davis gets in, I'm starting my Kenny Easley campaign.
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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No reason to keep Tim Brown waiting. Dude is getting in. Players that are inevitably getting in should just be put in. I guess that wouldn't make for good controversy though.
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:10 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxXdragonXxX View Post
If Terrell Davis gets in, I'm starting my Kenny Easley campaign.
My favorite safeties back in the day were Easley, Ronnie Lott and Nolan Cromwell. They'd all be in my HOF.
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:53 PM    (permalink
njx9
Suck it Rob
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welcome back, jordan.
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:17 PM    (permalink
njx9
Suck it Rob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FootbalKnowledge101 View Post
I asked you a question, dipshit.
and i ignored it because i don't see any point in answering questions posed by you. not least because you're probably not long for this site. again.

but let me ask you, while you're here. are you really this desperate for acceptance? i ask because it's undoubtedly possible to find actual, professional help wherever it is that you live. i think that would probably be infinitely more valuable than creating new accounts on a message board that has, unequivocally, stated that it no longer wants you around.
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:20 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Wow really Jordan? Just sad.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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