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Old 01-10-2014, 05:23 PM    (permalink
njx9
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Originally Posted by FootbalKnowledge101 View Post
First off, I'm not Jorda.

Secondly, you are the worst moderator i've ever seen.

Third, Terrell davis was worthless and you're one of the biggest bronco homer I've seen.

Time to die.
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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I think what is keeping Davis out is the plain fact that practically every RB that Kubiak coached ran for more than a 1000 yards every season. Kubiak's zone blocking scheme in the earlier years was unstoppable and Davis benefited greatly from it and even today, teams just don't seem to be able to stop it, think Foster and Morris. Add in his short career and a lot of voters will never put him on their ballet.

Other than that, the complete list is amazing and many of them definitely deserve to be in the HoF.
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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lol I don't know guys he makes some good points on his 'kill list.' JT is the Warren Beatty (empire records) of NFLDC. bow before my perfect metaphor.

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Old 01-10-2014, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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lol I don't know guys he makes some good points on his 'kill list.' JT is the Warren Beatty (empire records) of NFLDC. bow before my perfect metaphor.

but without the redemptive ending.
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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Davis wasn't good enough for long enough to deserve to be in the HOF, Sayers wasn't either but the HOF voters don't need to make the same mistake twice.
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Um, only special RBs play in the NFL for over a decade.

Bettis' numbers and production say he deserves to be in Canton.

If Bettis lives another 40 years, he's still likely going to be in the top 10 alltime rushing yards in the NFL.

People are giving Davis the ultimate respect by even including a guy in the HOF discussion who had three elite seasons and two SB rings before he blew out his knee.

That's really unprecedented.

The case for and against Terrell Davis and Jerome Bettis for enshrinement are entirely different discussions and shouldn't be lumped together.

I still would not have a problem with TD getting into Canton.
Only special rb's play for over 12 years is that why Earnest Byner, Bill Brown played rb for over 12 years but are not in the Hall of Fame? Numbers and production deserve the Hall of Fame you mean like that fact he only scored double digit TD's in a season twice or he had 5 years under 1000 yards rushing.
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Only special rb's play for over 12 years is that why Earnest Byner, Bill Brown played rb for over 12 years but are not in the Hall of Fame? Numbers and production deserve the Hall of Fame you mean like that fact he only scored double digit TD's in a season twice or he had 5 years under 1000 yards rushing.

Earnest Byner - 14 years/8261 yds rushing/56 TDs.
Bill Brown(?) - 14 years/5838 yds rushing/51 TDs.




Jerome Bettis - 13 years/13662 yds rushing/91 TDs.


Was bringing up Byner and Brown supposed to prove some kind of point??

I still think it's a remarkable accomplishment for any RB to play the position for over a decade because of the abuse they take on a per carry basis.

No one ever said playing a long time made a player a HOFer.
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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The system Denver ran was beneficial to the backs that were brought in, but Davis was a dominant player in an already beneficial system. Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Tatum Bell, and Ruben Droughns had good seasons in Denver, but they were never the player Davis was. Davis a few other players that had a short stint of dominance won't make the Hall. The shooting star effect just isn't enough to push folks over the top. This is why Jimmy Johnson isn't getting in. Or Priest Holmes. Or Rich Gannon. Or Kenny Easley. Consistency and durability is held in higher regard. And that is why you get guys like Curtis Martin or Art Monk in. May not have been the most dominant players, but they did enough in terms of being consistent to get in. Not that I agree with this line of thinking, but it just is what it is.
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Old 01-11-2014, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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meck, atwater and davis won't ever make it. the hall hates the broncos. sorry, randy gradishar.
Gradishar and Atwater are the biggest snubs.

Atwater was the best safety of the '90's and he isn't even sniffing the HOF.
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Old 01-11-2014, 01:52 AM    (permalink
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Davis wasn't good enough for long enough to deserve to be in the HOF, Sayers wasn't either but the HOF voters don't need to make the same mistake twice.
They already did with Dwight Stephenson, as I mentioned earlier.
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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i just don't even care if TD gets in anymore. bettis being in the conversation and martin being in make it clear that, for a rb, being nominated or getting in is a joke.

jerome bettis was NEVER the best running back in the nfl. he should be excluded immediately on that basis alone. or maybe y'all should start vociferously arguing for vinny testaverde's inclusion, since he's 10th on the TD list, and must've been an incredible player to avoid injury for so long. no? how about dave krieg. no? oh right, it's because the argument for longevity meaning anything is bad.
Well Bettis was a first team All Pro a couple of years. Including one with the Rams. He had some great seasons. I don't think he was ever the best runningback in the NFL, but I think he at least deserves it over Curtis Martin. Probably. There is a strong case against both of them for not being in though. I'm starting to think that half of these media folks may simply vote for whom they like as a person personally even if their career wasn't exactly HOF worthy. I'm afraid Hines Ward is going to be in the same room as Jerry Rice this way.
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:17 AM    (permalink
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Davis wasn't good enough for long enough to deserve to be in the HOF, Sayers wasn't either but the HOF voters don't need to make the same mistake twice.
Voting and the way we look at players' careers has changed considerably since Sayers was inducted into the Hall of Fame. Comparing him getting in to Davis not getting in as some kind of double standard is a stretch.
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:20 AM    (permalink
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There are dozens of players who aren't in who should be well before Mecklenburg. It's isn't the Hall of Very Good or Above Average remember.
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:17 AM    (permalink
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Earnest Byner - 14 years/8261 yds rushing/56 TDs.
Bill Brown(?) - 14 years/5838 yds rushing/51 TDs.




Jerome Bettis - 13 years/13662 yds rushing/91 TDs.


Was bringing up Byner and Brown supposed to prove some kind of point??

I still think it's a remarkable accomplishment for any RB to play the position for over a decade because of the abuse they take on a per carry basis.

No one ever said playing a long time made a player a HOFer.
I was not even talking about yards or even who was better I was pointing out that playing over 12 years does not make you a great player by using these two players as examples.
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:20 AM    (permalink
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Earnest Byner - 14 years/8261 yds rushing/56 TDs.
Bill Brown(?) - 14 years/5838 yds rushing/51 TDs.




Jerome Bettis - 13 years/13662 yds rushing/91 TDs.


Was bringing up Byner and Brown supposed to prove some kind of point??

I still think it's a remarkable accomplishment for any RB to play the position for over a decade because of the abuse they take on a per carry basis.

No one ever said playing a long time made a player a HOFer.
You said only special players play over 12 years which I proved wrong by pointing out two not special players who played over 12 years. Just because you played a long time does not mean you are great see Vinny Testaverde who played 21 years in the NFL.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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The system Denver ran was beneficial to the backs that were brought in, but Davis was a dominant player in an already beneficial system. Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Tatum Bell, and Ruben Droughns had good seasons in Denver, but they were never the player Davis was. Davis a few other players that had a short stint of dominance won't make the Hall. The shooting star effect just isn't enough to push folks over the top. This is why Jimmy Johnson isn't getting in. Or Priest Holmes. Or Rich Gannon. Or Kenny Easley. Consistency and durability is held in higher regard. And that is why you get guys like Curtis Martin or Art Monk in. May not have been the most dominant players, but they did enough in terms of being consistent to get in. Not that I agree with this line of thinking, but it just is what it is.
The one thing that I think elevates Davis over some of those other shooting-star type players is how damn good he was in the playoffs. In 8 games he had 1140 yards and 12 touchdowns, averaging 5.59 yards per carry. Only one game under 100 yards (91 on 14 carries), only one game where he didn't score (superbowl against atlanta where he still had 102 yards on 25 carries), and 4 games over 150 yards (184, 157, 199, 167.) As good as he was during the regular season, he arguably got better in the playoffs. If he ever does make the Hall of fame (which is looking really unlikely these days) it will be his playoff performances that put him over the top.
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Old 01-11-2014, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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You said only special players play over 12 years which I proved wrong by pointing out two not special players who played over 12 years. Just because you played a long time does not mean you are great see Vinny Testaverde who played 21 years in the NFL.
The average NFL career is 3 years. It's probably even less for RBs.
Making a team's final 53 for over a decade doesn't mean you're a pro bowler or a 1000 yard rusher, but it does make you an unusual football player in a positive sense.

Fans focus on the superstars almost exclusively.
There are dozens of anonymous NFL players who achieve a level of success in the league simply by managing to stay in it for so long.

You just can't dismiss longevity in the league as irrelevant.

Testaverde is not a HOFer, but his two decade NFL career is a significant milestone.

THe sport is just so brutal, a decade or more in the league is just really impressive.
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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The average NFL career is 3 years. It's probably even less for RBs.
Making a team's final 53 for over a decade doesn't mean you're a pro bowler or a 1000 yard rusher, but it does make you an unusual football player in a positive sense.

Fans focus on the superstars almost exclusively.
There are dozens of anonymous NFL players who achieve a level of success in the league simply by managing to stay in it for so long.

You just can't dismiss longevity in the league as irrelevant.

Testaverde is not a HOFer, but his two decade NFL career is a significant milestone.

THe sport is just so brutal, a decade or more in the league is just really impressive.
I did not dismiss as impressive but playing for a long time does not make you greater then other players. Bettis was a good rb for a long time never great. He never lead the league in rushing yards or rushing TD's. Only twice did he score over 10 TD in a season.
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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I believe Davis will be elected in the future but only as a Seniors candidate.
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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I did not dismiss as impressive but playing for a long time does not make you greater then other players. Bettis was a good rb for a long time never great. He never lead the league in rushing yards or rushing TD's. Only twice did he score over 10 TD in a season.
It does make you better than other players though. If you could have Peyton Manning on your team for 3 years or 6 years, which would you take? You would, 100% of the time, take Peyton Manning for 6 years.

Bo Jackson is a great example of this - everyone agrees he was a great player, but unfortunately he's never going to be in the hall of fame because he didn't play long enough. His lack of longevity has hurt him, not lack of talent.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket View Post
It does make you better than other players though. If you could have Peyton Manning on your team for 3 years or 6 years, which would you take? You would, 100% of the time, take Peyton Manning for 6 years.

Bo Jackson is a great example of this - everyone agrees he was a great player, but unfortunately he's never going to be in the hall of fame because he didn't play long enough. His lack of longevity has hurt him, not lack of talent.
So with that thinking Vinny Testaverde should be an all time great since he played over 20 years.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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So with that thinking Vinny Testaverde should be an all time great since he played over 20 years.

No one is saying that. The point is longevity in the NFL is one of the defining traits of greatness.

You don't spit at a guy because he happened to play two decades in the NFL. I don't care whether or not he's a future HOFer.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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lol I don't know guys he makes some good points on his 'kill list.' JT is the Warren Beatty (empire records) of NFLDC. bow before my perfect metaphor.

My names not ******* Warren!
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Old 01-12-2014, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket View Post
It does make you better than other players though. If you could have Peyton Manning on your team for 3 years or 6 years, which would you take? You would, 100% of the time, take Peyton Manning for 6 years.

Bo Jackson is a great example of this - everyone agrees he was a great player, but unfortunately he's never going to be in the hall of fame because he didn't play long enough. His lack of longevity has hurt him, not lack of talent.
I would argue it is more like...

Would you rather have Peyton Manning for 4 years and win 2 Super Bowls

or

say Matt Stafford for 8 years and 1 Super Bowl
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:16 AM    (permalink
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Really, Charles Haley??
Jacking in front of teammates?? In the lockerroom?? At team meetings??
And you're calling them rudy cool??lol

http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/1.../charles-haley
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