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Old 01-29-2014, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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Your nutz, too often there is no pressure, the top defenses can press and rush four. Jones is our only pass rusher. Not knocking Ninkovich but he is not a feared pass rusher.

What really hurt them was pressure from the middle, we have yet to see what Armstead can do or a healthy Tommy Kelly but a real Melton/Atkins threat in the middle would be a great addition. Donald or Easley would look nice but I can't see BB using a round 1
Fact is, they don't pass rush a lot. Jones and Nink have a primary assignment of keeping contain. They do what they're told very well, and that's why Nink has been on this team for so long without being replaced.

What's nuts is people, year-in and year-out, failing to understand that the Pats aren't not getting sacks because of the talent on the roster, but because they value other things that they believe (rightfully so, by their record) give them the best chance to limit their opponent's scoring opportunities. They could easily line up and get Chandler Jones 16 sacks every year, but that's not what's important to the success of the team.
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Old 01-29-2014, 02:55 AM    (permalink
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What would you give up for Fitz?




He has add lingering hamstring injuries and would need to re-work his contract but I would try to give up a 2nd this and next then trade my first round for a 2nd and others. But I would think it starts with their 1st
I would think his declining production has something to do with the quality of qb in Arizona declining as well.

2 2nds for a 30 year old wr is a bit steep, especially since he has an 18 million dollar cap hit. I would have the second pick as a purely conditional pick.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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I would think his declining production has something to do with the quality of qb in Arizona declining as well.

2 2nds for a 30 year old wr is a bit steep, especially since he has an 18 million dollar cap hit. I would have the second pick as a purely conditional pick.
Conditional is a very reasonable way to do it. His health and general decline can't be ignored. It'd be nice but not at the huge salary he's making. He's just not worth that and everyone can see it now. The Cards missed the golden opportunity to move him last year and will have far less offered this year, I think.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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We don't need to resign edelmen unless its for absolute bargain price. Same for the Decker comment. We need to stop signing short white guys and get someone tall who can stretch the field. At this point in time we should have realized that strategy isnt getting the job done. Gronk can't stay healthy, Amendola is mediocre to meh, I don't trust either Dobson or Thompkins to play that role. Not that I see many options there but it needs to addressed. Our refusal to do it outside of 2007 has been killing us.
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Not interested unless he dramatically slashed his price, and even then probably a third.

This. I would trade a 3rd for Fitz so long as he did a MAJOR reworking of his contract. Needless to say, it would have been much more helpful last season than this upcoming one.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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I think it's pretty clear we should absolutely sign Edelman. Decker is 6.3 and has shown an ability to get behind the D. I'm not saying we should get him, but he's not the mighty mite WR we generally send out on the field.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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I don't get all the Fitz talk. It's a pipedream and down right messed up that it's even brought up. Such a tease.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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If the Pats could get FSU WR Kenny Shaw in the 5th Round or later they should be ecstatic. Of all the players in this draft he is the closest thing to Wes Welker with his sure hands and elite route running ability.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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I don't get all the Fitz talk. It's a pipedream and down right messed up that it's even brought up. Such a tease.
Reading the mention of him, it's very ambiguous. Sure the Patriots were "interested" in acquiring Fitz last year. There were about 30 other teams that were "interested", too.

We know BB et al would make the move if it were a good deal. I just don't see any scenario where it actually becomes a good deal. Too much capital would have to be spent.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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I think it's pretty clear we should absolutely sign Edelman. Decker is 6.3 and has shown an ability to get behind the D. I'm not saying we should get him, but he's not the mighty mite WR we generally send out on the field.
He also, from reading the Denver fan base comments on him here, doesn't fight for the ball very well and can disappear during stretches. I didn't know Decker was 6'3 however. I for whatever reason thought he was much shorter. What about Nicks? I don't want to spend a ton of our cap space on him by any means, and I know he didn't have a great year last year (hopefully pushing down the contract teams are willing to offer) but he was in a dysfunctional offense and for much of the season I'm assuming he sort of just quit. I advocated for us trading for him this year, but now that hes on the market should we make a play for him?

Also, I'm not sure what Amendola's cap numbers are for this year, but could he be a candidate for the chopping block? Or is part of his 36 Million pretty much covered this year so it would be pointless to cut him?
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.

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Old 01-29-2014, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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I would be fine giving a shot to Nicks. It all depends on the deal, obviously. Investing anything more than a 1-2 year deal is too risky since he seems to have declined, too. Injury and lack of focus looked like the problem this year but it's never easy to tell if that combination is the issue or if the injuries have really taken their toll on his ability. He certainly was the type of player we need, but who knows if he ever will be again.
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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Nicks, Dobson, Thompkins, Amendola, Gronk, Edelmen(?), looks pretty solid to me.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 01-29-2014, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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There are a ton of receivers who are free agents that I would be interested in getting, I'll separate them into tiers.

Tier 1: Anquan Boldin, Eric Decker, Jeremy Maclin, Hakeem Nicks, Emmanuel Sanders

Tier 2: Darius Heyward-Bey, Jacoby Jones, James Jones, Golden Tate

Tier 3: Danario Alexander, Devin Hester, Robert Meachem, Santana Moss

Decker has been productive, but he's not a receiver who can stretch the field which is what I think the Pats need. Boldin I think can still be very productive and I would support giving him a one year or two year deal if he'd go for that. Nicks intrigues me because he's still very young, just turned 26, but I don't know what's up with him and people seem to be kind of cool on him. Sanders is maybe the most intriguing, he's really fast, will be 27 years old, and hasn't really had the opportunity to be a featured WR. This past year he was sharing the #2 role with Cotchery. I think Dobson at 6'3 and Sanders at 5'11 would be two solid receivers on the outside for the Patriots with hopefully Gronk and Amendola in the middle. BB obviously likes him because he made the Steelers match when he was an RFA last year.

Danario Alexander is just a guy I've been a fan of ever since he was coming out of college and wasn't surprised when he put up the numbers he did at the end of last year. He's a beast who is excellent at going up and getting the ball, great downfield threat. I think he could be a steal if he will sign for a low salary. He's recovered from injuries before and returned to perform well.

Santana Moss I could see BB bringing in because he's a vet. I was really surprised with how well he played in the beginning of the season and he had a reception in 14 out of 16 games.
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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Tier 1: Anquan Boldin, Eric Decker, Jeremy Maclin, Hakeem Nicks, Emmanuel Sanders
Boldin would be nice but not for the contract he might be looking for at his age. Decker will probably get 50mil from some team so count him out
Maclin will sign a 1-year deal with Philly to re-up his value
Nicks is already a shell of what he used to be watch the tape
Sanders I could see coming over, but then the question is wouldn't you want a guy familiar already in Edleman?

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Tier 2: Darius Heyward-Bey, Jacoby Jones, James Jones, Golden Tate
Darius? you watch football? He became the #4 WR by the end of a year
Jacoby is a good idea on a 1-2 year bringing downfield
Tate I always liked and I think he might get a little north of Amendola contract

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Tier 3: Danario Alexander, Devin Hester, Robert Meachem, Santana Moss
All of these guys careers are over
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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Darius? you watch football? He became the #4 WR by the end of a year
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All of these guys careers are over
I could see Belichick giving those people deals similar to the ones he gave Donald Jones and Michael Jenkins in free agency last year. DHB is the same age as Jones and I could see BB giving Moss a shot like he gave Jenkins.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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The last thing we need at wide receiver is another guy who can't catch the ball. We'd have to put Brady on suicide watch if the team signed Heyward-Bey.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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I'll commit suicide if we sign another aging vet who brings nothing to the outside spot except backshoulder catches down the sideline. Or just roll with edelmen as our number 1 for another season.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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I like the idea of Nicks on a incentive deal. Why not?
Decker will be too expensive and Macline, I agree, will head back to Philly on a 1 yr deal.
E. Sanders seems like the most likely addition, we already know BB likes him.
Jacoby would be pretty cool since he's a stud KR at the same time.

I'll say, I'd rather us go WR in FA vice the draft. We have enough youth in our WRs, we need them to mature and learn from this past season now.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Here's who we've signed in the forum offseason's free agency period:

TE Owen Daniels (one year, $2 million), TE Lee Smith (one year, veteran minimum), OG Harvey Dahl (one year, $1 million), LB Dane Fletcher (one year, veteran minimum.)

Daniels was signed to provide the "flex" tight end for Ace formations, with Smith signed as the backup "Y" tight end; Smith graded out as a top-five run blocker and pass protector on PFF recently, and can work as a long-snapper too, so that saves us a space. Dahl was great for quite a few years prior to his average 2013 season, in which he also missed some time due to injury. He played very well at right guard under McDaniels in 2011, and I like that he brings a nasty demeanor like Logan Mankins. That way, Cannon has competition at right guard, and if one of the tackles goes down, Cannon can take over there; I also think Marcus is a better fit outside. We all basically know what Fletcher offers the team, which I think justified his deal.
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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The Patriots traditionally have had one undrafted free agent signing per season. In the forum mock, that player was Western Kentucky running back Antonio Andrews. I like that he's a thick runner with good vision who can also catch the ball and return kicks. He was very productive over the past two seasons (leading the NCAA in all-purpose yards in both) and showed that he can hold his own vs. top competition at the Senior Bowl.
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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The next free agent we signed was defensive end Everson Griffen to a one-year, $3 million contract. I like that Griffen is young (26) and has the size that New England looks for (6'3", 273.) He hasn't started for the Vikings, so I think the third defensive end role is something he's accustomed to. He's averaging just under six sacks a year over the past three seasons, so I think he makes sense.
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
The next free agent we signed was defensive end Everson Griffen to a one-year, $3 million contract. I like that Griffen is young (26) and has the size that New England looks for (6'3", 273.) He hasn't started for the Vikings, so I think the third defensive end role is something he's accustomed to. He's averaging just under six sacks a year over the past three seasons, so I think he makes sense.
I like that deal. He could be the pass rusher the Pats need opposite Jones in the 4-3. He was a beast coming out of high school. He'd be a good get for the Pats.
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Old 01-31-2014, 04:30 AM    (permalink
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OFFENSE:

QB: T. Brady - R. Mallett
RB: S. Ridley - S. Vereen - B. Bolden - A. Andrews
FB: J. Develin
WR: D. Amendola - J. Boyce - M. Campanaro
WR: A. Dobson - K. Thompson - M. Slater
TE: R. Gronkowski - O. Daniels - L. Smith
LT: N. Solder
LG: L. Mankins - C. Watt
OC: R. Wendell - R. Cook
RG: H. Dahl
RT: S. Vollmer - M. Cannon

DEFENSE:

LE: R. Ninkovich - R. Ayers
DT: L. Nix - K. Klug - J. Vellano
NT: V. Wilfork - S. Siliga
RE: C. Jones - E. Griffen
WB: J. Mayo
MB: D. Hightower - D. Fletcher
SB: J. Collins - T. Reilly
LC: L. Ryan - K. Fuller
FS: D. McCourty - T. Brooks
SS: Q. Mikell - D. Harmon - N. Ebner
SC: K. Arrington - J. Arenas
RC: A. Dennard - J. Watkins

SPECIAL TEAMS:

PK: S. Gostkowski
PN: R. Allen
LS: L. Smith
KR: J. Boyce
PR: J. Boyce

RESERVE/PUP:

DL A. Armstead

DRAFT SELECTIONS:

1.29. DT Louis Nix, Notre Dame*
2.62. CB Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
4.126. OG Chris Watt, Notre Dame
5.146. DB Terrence Brooks, Florida St.
6.174. WR Michael Campanaro, Wake Forest
6.182. LB Trevor Reilly, Utah
6.190. DB Jaylen Watkins, Florida

FREE AGENTS:

RB Antonio Andrews - undrafted free agent
TE Owen Daniels - one year, $2 million
TE Lee Smith - one year, veteran minimum
OG Harvey Dahl - one year, $1 million
OC Ryan Wendell - one year, $1 million
OC Ryan Cook - one year, veteran minimum
DE Robert Ayers - one year, $3.5 million
DE Everson Griffen - one year, $3 million
LB Dane Fletcher - one year, veteran minimum
DB Quintin Mikell - one year, $1.5 million
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Forum mock update:

Josh Kline, Tommy Kelly, Michael Buchanan, Steve Gregory, and Tavon Wilson were released before the final wave of free agency.

So far on the third day, the team has re-signed OC Ryan Wendell ($1 million) and signed OL Ryan Cook (veteran minimum), DL Robert Ayers ($3.5 million), CB Javier Arenas (veteran minimum), and SS Quintin Mikell ($2 million.) I've updated the depth chart above this post.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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Apparently, through some cap wizardry, the Pats can save $2.9m by cutting Amendola before March 11 and making him a June 2 designation.

Erase the mistake! He'll never be healthy.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Apparently, through some cap wizardry, the Pats can save $2.9m by cutting Amendola before March 11 and making him a June 2 designation.

Erase the mistake! He'll never be healthy.
I don't understand how anyone can be in favor of this realistically.

Amendola is not on the books for a lot of money this year. He got hurt which was a big worry, but at this point the Patriots WRs are Slater, Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce.

What happens if a team with cap room offers Edelman $7m per year? No way the Pats want to match that which leaves them with not much on the outside, not much in the slot and Gronk coming back from a destructive knee injury. No thanks!!!

Realistically, what would that extra $2m or so be able to get us in free agency which is that much better?

Hell, there are easier ways to get that money without losing a guy who can actually contribute.

Restructure Wilfork and Mankins. Extend McCourty. Cut Connolly, Sopoaga, Kelly and Gregory. That could get you in excess of $15m right there.
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