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Old 02-04-2014, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Default Combine Drills and Tests: Who Has The Most To Gain/Lose

While some criticize it as a mere platform for "workout wonders," the Scouting Combine will have a significant impact on the draft status of many prospects. Some will rise from obscurity, while others will develop significant "red flags."

Here is my list of the players who stand the most to gain and lose from the Combine drills and tests:

40 Yard Dash: Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M
Evans is the concensus No. 2 WR at this stage, behind Sammy Watkins. He is viewed as a receivers with excellent size and college production, and a potential mismatch against smaller DBs. The big question is whether he has "separation speed." I'd say that he needs to run under a 4.60 to maintain his draft spot. If he breaks 4.50, he might become a Top 10 pick. (Others: Stanley Jean-Baptiste, CB, Nebraska; Tre Mason, RB, Auburn; Kelvin Benjamin, WR, FSU)

Bench Press: Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh
Donald has everything you'd want in a gap-shooting DT, with the possible exception of weight. He is currently listed at 288, which is low for an NFL DT. While his weigh-in will be important (I think teams would be more comfortable if he were to gain 2 pounds and weigh in at 290), I think that a better way to eliminate doubt would be a good showing on the bench. (Others: Ryan Shazier, LB, Ohio State; Jake Matthews, OT, Texas A&M)

Three-Cone Test: Anthony Barr, OLB, UCLA
For a LB to be worth an early first round pick, you'd want to see the ability to play all three downs. This means that, even for a pass rushing OLB, coverage ability is important. The same is true for strong safeties. The three cone drill really tests change of direction and lateral movement, which are important for players who line up "in the box," but have to play "uphill" at times in coverage. (Others: Khlil Mack, OLB, Buffalo; Deone Buchannon, S, Washington State)

20 Yard Shuttle: Greg Robinson, OT, Auburn

This test focuses on the ability to move quickly in short spaces. It is important for many positions, including OT, RB and DT. Robinson is a mauler. Nobody doubts his ability to plow ahead and overwhelm defenders. If he can show that he is nimble as well, that would bode well for him as a pass blocking prospect. (Others: Cyrus Kuoandjio, OT, Alabama; Louis Nix, DT, Notre Dame)

60 Yard Shuttle: Marquise Lee, WR, USC
This is a real test of "football speed," involving straight line bursts, stopping and starting, and changing direction. A player like Lee, who does not have overwhelming size and, while fast, is not going to set a Combine record in the 40, can gain a lot in this drill, as it involves the same type of skills that make a WR a good route runner. Important for DBs as well. (Others: Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt; Hasean Clinton-Dix, S, Alabama; Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigane State)

Vertical Jump: Lamarcus Joyner, DB, FSU
If you are a short WR or DB, you need to have "ups" to compete with the bigger players on the opposing side. Joyner, who is listed at 5'8, has everything you want in a DB except height. He'll need to show he can compete with the big WRs and TEs he'll have to cover. (Others: Jason Verrett, CB, TCU; Odell Beckham, Jr., WR, LSU)

Weight: Tre Mason, RB, Auburn
There is an ideal height range for each position. A player who is too heavy or too light, will be questioned. Mason is listed at 205 lbs. That's borderline for a an "every down" RB in the NFL. If he comes in at 210, the scouts will be encouraged. If he comes in at 200, it could push him down the ranks. (Others: Cyril Richardson, OG, Baylor; Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh; Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M)

Height: Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M
Despite the success of Drew Brees and Russell Wilson, I still believe that QBs who are 6'0 and under are viewed as question marks. Manziel is listed at 6'0-6'1 (depending on the source). If he comes in at 5'10, I believe that there are teams that will shy away from him. (Others: Marquise Lee, WR, USC; Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigan State; Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson)

Interview: Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina

I have little doubt that Clowney will test well as an athlete. However, there are going to be question marks regarding his drive and commitment after a sub-par Junior campaign. If he is able to convince teams that he loves the game of football and wants to work hard at his craft, he'll be a Top 3 pick. If not, he could tumble a bit. (Others: Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M; Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M; Rashede Hagerman, DT, Minnesota)
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Height: Teddy Bridgewater- We all know Manziel is short so I don't think the height is going to mater so much for him. But Bridgeater is more of a pure pocket passer. He'll need to measure in close to his 6'3" listing.

Interview: Johnny Manziel- There are questions about maturity. There are questions about arrests. There are questions about him taking money. Their are questions about how he'll handle the millions he's about to get.

Weight: Telvin Smith- He only weighed in at 218 at the Senior Bowl. He wants to stay at LB but that isn't going to work at that weight. He'll need to put on some weight (and prove he can carry that weight).
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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If Clowney shows up at combine and runs @4.75, has a 32 inch vert and very average test numbers across the board, I think he drops to the 5-15 pick range. Maybe lower.
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure I buy the idea that teams are worried about a rich kid getting money. Manziel is already rich. You never know, though.
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure I buy the idea that teams are worried about a rich kid getting money. Manziel is already rich. You never know, though.
There have been reports that teams are. Also, playing around with mommy and daddy's money is alot different than having your own millions.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Donte Moncrief could really help himself in the 40, but part of me hopes he has mediocre workouts and falls to the Pats in the second round. I doubt he will test poorly, though.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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There have been reports that teams are. Also, playing around with mommy and daddy's money is alot different than having your own millions.
That's my worry too. His family having money is way different. He could go from $100 at college bar to $20,000 at a big club when he has his own money. As much as people have relaxed on his character issues they still are significant.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Every top prospect going to the Combine has a lot to prove physically, it is where the men are separated from the boys and your physical talent is proven on an equal playing field. Mess up and you'll fall on team's draft boards, do well and you'll stay about where you are now ranked, go above expectations and you can move up draft boards by quite a bit. A lot of money to be made by everybody except those that do poorly.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:46 AM    (permalink
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If Clowney shows up at combine and runs @4.75, has a 32 inch vert and very average test numbers across the board, I think he drops to the 5-15 pick range. Maybe lower.
That seems crazy, but... that'd sure tell you a lot about how seriously he took football.


Think Jared Abbredaris could cement himself as solid day 2 pick by running well. If he runs in the 4.6s, though I have a hard time seeing him go before round 5.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:06 AM    (permalink
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If Clowney shows up at combine and runs @4.75, has a 32 inch vert and very average test numbers across the board, I think he drops to the 5-15 pick range. Maybe lower.
Yeah, but that is a big if, every prospect has a big if attached to him prior to the Combine/pro days, it is the same for Clowney, all we can go by now is where they currently project him, reality comes after he works out.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:05 AM    (permalink
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If Clowney shows up at combine and runs @4.75, has a 32 inch vert and very average test numbers across the board, I think he drops to the 5-15 pick range. Maybe lower.
Eh, I'm pretty sure Clowney was able to do a 32 inch vert when he stepped out of the womb.

In all seriousness, Clowney is going to blow up the combine...like set it on fire and watch it burn to the ground. But that doesn't necessarily tell you whether or not he loves football.

I think the concerns are overblown, but really, unless a guy has his head up his ass like Burfict did a few years ago, then there is no excuse not to have a good showing in the combine outside of injury.

Clowney will run in the 4.5s at 270lbs and jump close to 40 inches. His broad jump may well challenge to be the longest of the week too. But this has more to do with Clowney's natural freakishness. When you add someone with this much athleticism with a few months of specific training for sprinting and jumping and you will get scary results.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:21 AM    (permalink
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Donte Moncrief could really help himself in the 40, but part of me hopes he has mediocre workouts and falls to the Pats in the second round. I doubt he will test poorly, though.
WRs are deep this year Moncrief can be had in round 3 even round 4
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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Morgan Moses's stock will hinge on how athletic he looks in the kick slide drill.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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Id be shocked if clowney doesnt absolutely dazzle in combine workouts, no way he bombs it
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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Eh, I'm pretty sure Clowney was able to do a 32 inch vert when he stepped out of the womb.

In all seriousness, Clowney is going to blow up the combine...like set it on fire and watch it burn to the ground. But that doesn't necessarily tell you whether or not he loves football.

I think the concerns are overblown, but really, unless a guy has his head up his ass like Burfict did a few years ago, then there is no excuse not to have a good showing in the combine outside of injury.

Clowney will run in the 4.5s at 270lbs and jump close to 40 inches. His broad jump may well challenge to be the longest of the week too. But this has more to do with Clowney's natural freakishness. When you add someone with this much athleticism with a few months of specific training for sprinting and jumping and you will get scary results.

I agree we all believe Clowney should beast the combine, that's why it would be devastating for him IMO if he had an average to subpar combine.

He seems to like working out though, so I might be throwing poop at the wall even mentioning Clowney might have a poor combine, outside of some unforeseen injury.

Still, Clowney has checked out of competitive football since the end of the 2012 season. I wouldn't be surprised if he believes the combine just isn't that important.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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I agree we all believe Clowney should beast the combine, that's why it would be devastating for him IMO if he had an average to subpar combine.

He seems to like working out though, so I might be throwing poop at the wall even mentioning Clowney might have a poor combine, outside of some unforeseen injury.

Still, Clowney has checked out of competitive football since the end of the 2012 season. I wouldn't be surprised if he believes the combine just isn't that important.
I think, based on some of things he has said he really wants to show people how much of a freak he is. I don't believe that shows he has any more or any less desire in playing football for a living though. Where Clowney will win or lose at the combine is places we will never see and that is in meetings with the teams atop the draft
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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That seems crazy, but... that'd sure tell you a lot about how seriously he took football.


Think Jared Abbredaris could cement himself as solid day 2 pick by running well. If he runs in the 4.6s, though I have a hard time seeing him go before round 5.
No secret i'd like to see Abbrederis in Seattle. Maybe if they trade out of that first pick and accumulate an additional second.

Jared should have a good combine if healthy. I could see him running in the high 4.5s with good shuttle times.

As for other talk about Johnny Football coming from money it didn't stop teams from drafting Matthew Stafford.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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manziel will kill it in the interviews, teams will love his personality
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:16 PM    (permalink
E_Bird
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Your take on Greg Robinson is incomplete. Dude does amazing things in space. No one is doubting his athleticism on any level. The only concerns he'll carry will have to do with his rawness in pass pro.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by E_Bird View Post
Your take on Greg Robinson is incomplete. Dude does amazing things in space. No one is doubting his athleticism on any level. The only concerns he'll carry will have to do with his rawness in pass pro.
I disagree. Against FSU, for example, I saw some examples of him failing to seal the outside rush quickly enough, resulting in the DE getting an edge. The short shuttle will be a good indicator of whether this is an agility issue or, alternatively, a technique issue. If he shows good quickness for a man his size, I think most teams will conclude that they can "coach him up."
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:14 AM    (permalink
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I disagree. Against FSU, for example, I saw some examples of him failing to seal the outside rush quickly enough, resulting in the DE getting an edge. The short shuttle will be a good indicator of whether this is an agility issue or, alternatively, a technique issue. If he shows good quickness for a man his size, I think most teams will conclude that they can "coach him up."
I think you'll be the only person in America waiting on the combine prove to you that Robinson is athletic. It's not that he's good enough; he's an exceptional athlete. Watch the first TD of the Florida State game. There aren't too many NFL OT's who have the athleticism to make that play (2:58):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdwZq0UgwHM
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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I never said Robinson is not "athletic." I am questioning (and I am far from the only one) whether he has short-burst quickness necessary to deal with the quicker edge rushers in the NFL. The Combine (particularly the short shuttle) will provide information regarding this issue that will be valuable to scouts.

Its amusing when people become so enamored with a prospect that they act like they are offended by the smallest form of criticism of the player.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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I never said Robinson is not "athletic." I am questioning (and I am far from the only one) whether he has short-burst quickness necessary to deal with the quicker edge rushers in the NFL. The Combine (particularly the short shuttle) will provide information regarding this issue that will be valuable to scouts.

Its amusing when people become so enamored with a prospect that they act like they are offended by the smallest form of criticism of the player.
He is pretty smooth in space, so I don't really see him having a problem showing up in the timed drills. I'm much more interested to see how he performs in the kick slide position drill. Coming from an offense that ran more then any team in the NCAA outside of triple option teams, it is important to see how consistent his technique is while shadowing a mocked pass rush.

That said I think he has the size and athleticism to make up for some sloppy footwork in pass protection. He is just one of those guys who can overwhelm guys once he gets his hands in good position.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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Donte Moncrief could really help himself in the 40, but part of me hopes he has mediocre workouts and falls to the Pats in the second round. I doubt he will test poorly, though.
I think he's going to surprise a lot of people - I'm expecting him to be near the top end of the height/weight/speed guys.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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i think Robinson will be fine kick sliding, because his footwork is pretty good. i think the match up vs Mario Edwards when going 1on1 in passing situations was a draw with both players winning on different plays.
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