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Old 02-04-2014, 09:10 PM    (permalink
Bearfan21
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Default Kelvin Benjamin, WR, Florida State

I know alot of experts and scouts are very high on Benjamin but i have major concerns with him. I have him graded as a mid to late 2nd.

His strengths are obviously his enormous size and large wingspan. At the college level he was able to physically dominate the competition. He will definitely be a red zone target in the NFL but im not sure his overall game will translate.

The number one concern I have with him is his route running and his ability to get separation. He doesnt explode or look very smooth coming out of his breaks. He slows down and his feet become almost choppy. Beside utilizing him on fade and vertical routes I think he will have a hard time even with that great size of getting open against good CBs.

IMO he is a cross between former 1st rounders JJ Stokes and jonathan Baldwin. I would love to hear what everyone else thinks about him.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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He has issues. But he has a lot of tools to work with physically.

None of these players are as good as they will be once NFL teams develop them. Which is good for Kelvin because he's not a great college WR. There are maddening lapses in concentration on his tape. He doesn't generally demonstrate a great deal of determination or intensity either. Benjamin has the tools to be the best WR in this draft. Better than Evans or Watkins. But it'll take development to get there.

Whether he has the mental make up to improve to the degree he needs to -- that's an unknown. He has far better physical tools than Stokes or Baldwin. Stokes was actually a much better WR in college. Even great. He just didn't get much better when he got to the pros.

Baldwin has just maintained his dumpster fire lousiness.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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He drops a ton of passes, but Benjamin is easily the fourth-best receiver in the class if you ask me and worth a top-forty pick. I could imagine him developing into someone like Sidney Rice, albeit more unreliable.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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He is very raw having only played 2 years at Florida St. but his upside is immense. He has a chance to be special, but it may take a year to bring his overall game up to expectations. Based on his ceiling, he should go somewhere in the teens, athletic players that huge just don't come around that often.
Unless he blows a flat tire at the Combine, he could become one of the best players to come out of this draft 2 years down the road.

Even with his lack of playing experience, I'd rate him the #3 WR in the draft just ahead of Evans, they are very similar, so it will come down to who runs the fastest 40 at the Combine. My money is on Benjamin but that still has to be proved.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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All he is is huge. I'm going to let someone else pick him high.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
All he is is huge. I'm going to let someone else pick him high.
Without him working out at the Combine or his pro day, you have no idea what his ceiling is and I think it is way premature to write him off without that knowledge. You telling me, he doesn't start to look a lot better should he run a 4.50 or less at the combine with that height and jumping ability

WR's that huge don't come around everyday and I'd want to see a lot more before writing him off to another team. Now, if he has a mediocre Combine, by all means, I would agree with you, but at this stage in the process, I want to see more before closing the door on Benjamin.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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I think the kid has some upside, but I don't think he's even the best WR from his college team...physically gifted absolutely, but the mental part of the game seems weak.

I'll take him if I have a role to put him in as a #2 WR where I don't have to rely on him as heavily early in his career.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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I think the kid has some upside, but I don't think he's even the best WR from his college team...physically gifted absolutely, but the mental part of the game seems weak.

I'll take him if I have a role to put him in as a #2 WR where I don't have to rely on him as heavily early in his career.
I agree, he's raw but he is just touching the surface of his ability. He's only played 2 years of college football so your not going to see a finished product, what GM's have to decide is what is the likelihood of him reaching his high ceiling with added experience, if you believe he can, you draft him high, if your answer is no, you leave him for another team. The Combine is going to be pretty crucial for a guy as raw as Benjamin. Still, it is pretty impressive that he is getting 1st round talk just based on his perceived athletic and jumping ability even before working out.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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The big comparison to me is Jon Baldwin. I was scared off of Baldwin based on an interview he did on NFL Network with I think Cris Carter, and I remember thinking Baldwin seemed utterly disinterested in being there. Baldwin has the skillset to be a stud in the League, and so does Benjamin. The key to whether Benjamin goes down Baldwin Street is in the personality.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:10 AM    (permalink
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Without him working out at the Combine or his pro day, you have no idea what his ceiling is and I think it is way premature to write him off without that knowledge. You telling me, he doesn't start to look a lot better should he run a 4.50 or less at the combine with that height and jumping ability

WR's that huge don't come around everyday and I'd want to see a lot more before writing him off to another team. Now, if he has a mediocre Combine, by all means, I would agree with you, but at this stage in the process, I want to see more before closing the door on Benjamin.
Yes, they do.

Jon Baldwin.
Limas Sweed.
Reggie Williams.
Ramses Barden.
Stephen Hill.
Malcolm Kelly.
James Hardy.

There's a receiver or two every year who gets hyped for his size and never does a thing in the NFL.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:04 AM    (permalink
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Yup, Baldwin is his floor for sure. Given the other WR's in this draft, I wouldn't consider spending a 1st on him.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:52 AM    (permalink
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He reminds of of Mike Williams USC, and not in a good way. Would have been better served staying in school.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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Whatever.

Once FSU got a real QB, suddenly Benjamin's game took off. That's not a coincidence.

I'd still be surprised if Benjamin lasts past the 2nd round.
The same way teams gamble on QBs, they also roll the dice on 6'4+ WRs who were productive if only for a season at bigtime programs.

I see some Plaxico Burress in his game. We'll see if that's true in 2014/15.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Yes, they do.

Jon Baldwin.
Limas Sweed.
Reggie Williams.
Ramses Barden.
Stephen Hill.
Malcolm Kelly.
James Hardy.

There's a receiver or two every year who gets hyped for his size and never does a thing in the NFL.
He's being hyped at this point in the draft process, to go somewhere in the range of 17-25. so NFL people are impressed by what they saw on film, now he just has to demonstrate at the Combine that he has the physical skills to go along with his height and weight. Non of the above were getting that kind of hype this late in the process.

Don't get me wrong, I have serious reservations about him as a 1st round talent from what I have seen on film, but I'm not writing him off till I see his performance at the Combine, then I'll make a realistic final judgement.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Whatever.

Once FSU got a real QB, suddenly Benjamin's game took off. That's not a coincidence.

I'd still be surprised if Benjamin lasts past the 2nd round.
The same way teams gamble on QBs, they also roll the dice on 6'4+ WRs who were productive if only for a season at bigtime programs.

I see some Plaxico Burress in his game. We'll see if that's true in 2014/15.
Is this implying that E.J. Manuel, the first passer off the board last year, was not a real quarterback? Most college receivers would kill to play with someone as talented as Manuel.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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It's really going to come down to his interviews and what type of offense he's going to be playing in.

Personally, I don't see a lot of difference in Jon Baldwin and Alshon Jeffrey.

Both had similar concerns coming out of college, and I think Benjamin fits right into that category as well.

I think his desire and where he ends up is going to determine it more than his physical ability.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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Yes, they do.

Jon Baldwin.
Limas Sweed.
Reggie Williams.
Ramses Barden.
Stephen Hill.
Malcolm Kelly.
James Hardy.

There's a receiver or two every year who gets hyped for his size and never does a thing in the NFL.
Or there's Denario Alexander, Vincent Jackson, Malcom Floyd, Marques Colston, Brandon Marshall, etc. as WRs who are all 6'4", 225 or bigger.

I think Benjamin uses his size/body very well. I think he has good hands, though he doesn't always bring them on every play. Not really concerned about route running. When you're that big, you don't need separation. And the separation the big WRs do get is based on them being physical with the DB.

I have Benjamin as my #2 WR. Though, I could see myself taking Lee over him depending on which team I'm drafting for. I still can't figure out what Mike Evans does better, except catch the ball more consistently. I think Benjamin is bigger, faster, and less of a 1-trick pony (jumpballs).
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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Is this implying that E.J. Manuel, the first passer off the board last year, was not a real quarterback? Most college receivers would kill to play with someone as talented as Manuel.
EJ Manuel if his best fantasy is nowhere near the QB Jameis Winston is.

Can't make the same throws, doesn't see the field the way Winston does.

The fact that Manuel couldn't get the ball to a 6'6 WR 5-6 times a game in the ACC tells you how deficient Manuel was as a QB. (BTW EJ was overdrafted which will become apparent in the next couple seasons.)

The Kelvin Benjamin we saw playing with Jameis Winston is closer to the true WR Benjamin is than the one we didn't see with EJ Manuel.

Hell all those invisible, talented WRs at FSU suddenly became universal pro prospects last year.
That's the difference a major QB talent can have on your squad.

That said, Benjamin didn't have that great a year from a receptions standpoint.

Less than 60 catches last year to me is a big red flag. Yeah he's a redzone threat but I expected more production just catching the football.

I don't know if Benjamin is a true #1, but he'd be a helluva secondary WR for most teams.

In the NFCE, if you paired him with either Garcon/Bryant/Desean Jackson/Cruz, I think Benjamin would be a huge weapon, literally.

Benjamin is a WR IMO most teams would like to have on their rosters, but he's not going to be THE guy.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Or there's Denario Alexander, Vincent Jackson, Malcom Floyd, Marques Colston, Brandon Marshall, etc. as WRs who are all 6'4", 225 or bigger.

I think Benjamin uses his size/body very well. I think he has good hands, though he doesn't always bring them on every play. Not really concerned about route running. When you're that big, you don't need separation. And the separation the big WRs do get is based on them being physical with the DB.

I have Benjamin as my #2 WR. Though, I could see myself taking Lee over him depending on which team I'm drafting for. I still can't figure out what Mike Evans does better, except catch the ball more consistently. I think Benjamin is bigger, faster, and less of a 1-trick pony (jumpballs).
Out of the oversized WR's I honestly think that Brandon Coleman has the largest ceiling. His game translates to more of Alshon Jeffery/ Vincent Jackson with his ability to stretch the field vertically. Not sure that is going to be Benjamin or Evans cup of tea.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
That said, Benjamin didn't have that great a year from a receptions standpoint.

Less than 60 catches last year to me is a big red flag. Yeah he's a redzone threat but I expected more production just catching the football.
Because he played on an offense with another 1000 yard WR, a 1000 yard RB, a 900 yard WR, and a Mackey Finalist at TE (who is also a Red Zone threat). Add to that he didn't play much past the mid-3rd quarter of many games, I think with the blowouts he basically lost 2 full games.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:09 AM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
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Funbuncher, I think our opinions of how Benjamin will end up are pretty close, but it's a bit ridiculous to suggest that we should just write off entire seasons of a wide receiver's college career because they weren't playing with a potential first overall draft pick at quarterback.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:11 AM    (permalink
MassNole
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Funbuncher, I think our opinions of how Benjamin will end up are pretty close, but it's a bit ridiculous to suggest that we should just write off entire seasons of a wide receiver's college career because they weren't playing with a potential first overall draft pick at quarterback.
Especially when you consider how raw Benjamin still was as a RS-Freshman when he had Manuel as his QB. It also disregards that this is the first year Fisher stopped using every WR on the roster in every game and stayed with a top 3-4 guys in KB, Shaw, Greene, and to a much lesser extent Christian Green.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Out of the oversized WR's I honestly think that Brandon Coleman has the largest ceiling. His game translates to more of Alshon Jeffery/ Vincent Jackson with his ability to stretch the field vertically. Not sure that is going to be Benjamin or Evans cup of tea.
As a Bears fan, I think Alshon is a different type of cat. He gets lumped into the Vincent Jackson type, but he's really much more than a field stretcher. He's pretty good after the catch. He's the guy the Bears use on reverses (a lot), and slants. I think the reasons he's being lumped into that group is that A) he plays w/ Brandon Marshall and B) his highlights have been of the field stretching variety.

But I don't agree with Coleman's ceiling being higher than Benjamin's. Plus, if there's one guy I'd wager on not ever reaching his ceiling it would be Coleman. He has more experience than Benjamin or Evans, but hasn't put it together. Granted, he's had QB issues but he doesn't seem like he has what it takes mentally to me.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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As a Bears fan, I think Alshon is a different type of cat. He gets lumped into the Vincent Jackson type, but he's really much more than a field stretcher. He's pretty good after the catch. He's the guy the Bears use on reverses (a lot), and slants. I think the reasons he's being lumped into that group is that A) he plays w/ Brandon Marshall and B) his highlights have been of the field stretching variety.

But I don't agree with Coleman's ceiling being higher than Benjamin's. Plus, if there's one guy I'd wager on not ever reaching his ceiling it would be Coleman. He has more experience than Benjamin or Evans, but hasn't put it together. Granted, he's had QB issues but he doesn't seem like he has what it takes mentally to me.
Poor QB play, 3 different offensive coordinators all with run first mentalities. I'll give you he may have mailed it in a bit in his junior year when he wasn't getting many looks but he was also playing with a shaky knee. Take a peek at his Soph film and you get a completely different view on the type of talent he can be. Put him on a team like FSU and he would have dominated imo.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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As a Bears fan, I think Alshon is a different type of cat. He gets lumped into the Vincent Jackson type, but he's really much more than a field stretcher. He's pretty good after the catch. He's the guy the Bears use on reverses (a lot), and slants. I think the reasons he's being lumped into that group is that A) he plays w/ Brandon Marshall and B) his highlights have been of the field stretching variety.

But I don't agree with Coleman's ceiling being higher than Benjamin's. Plus, if there's one guy I'd wager on not ever reaching his ceiling it would be Coleman. He has more experience than Benjamin or Evans, but hasn't put it together. Granted, he's had QB issues but he doesn't seem like he has what it takes mentally to me.
Benjamin is actually more well rounded than given credit for. He catches quite a few passes in the intermediate area, and has been used in some screens and reverses (see Clemson last year). He just simply didn't do it much, because out of FSU's top 3 WR's, he is the biggest and the best blocker.

To me the real question with Benjamin is attitude/work ethic and tendency to drop easy balls. The attitude concern wasn't an issue at all last year, seems like the light really came on. Listen to interviews with him and he seems like a bright kid with a good head on his shoulders. But theres always been rumblings before that he wasn't the most dedicated. So that will just be a subjective judgment for teams to make. Going to a good situation with an established WR would ensure success for Benjamin imo.

The dropsies is something he just has to get fixed, even though the best NFL WR's will drop easy ones, he still does it too much. Theres no fancy way to judge this, he just has to maintain concentration more.
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