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Old 02-05-2014, 07:42 PM    (permalink
lod01
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Whatever.

Once FSU got a real QB, suddenly Benjamin's game took off. That's not a coincidence.

I'd still be surprised if Benjamin lasts past the 2nd round.
The same way teams gamble on QBs, they also roll the dice on 6'4+ WRs who were productive if only for a season at bigtime programs.

I see some Plaxico Burress in his game. We'll see if that's true in 2014/15.
That's not a rousing endorsement if you think about it. It means he can't elevate his game without a top notch QB. See Calvin Johnson in college with utter garbage at QB, see Josh Gordon this past year. That is what top tier WRs do.

Benjamin will need a lot of coaching.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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I don't really think it was a quarterback issue. I think it was more the fact that Benjamin was a freshman last year, and I'm not sure how people have managed to overlook that fact. He's far from the first receiver to burst onto the scene in his second year.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by rawdawg View Post
As a Bears fan, I think Alshon is a different type of cat. He gets lumped into the Vincent Jackson type, but he's really much more than a field stretcher. He's pretty good after the catch. He's the guy the Bears use on reverses (a lot), and slants. I think the reasons he's being lumped into that group is that A) he plays w/ Brandon Marshall and B) his highlights have been of the field stretching variety.

But I don't agree with Coleman's ceiling being higher than Benjamin's. Plus, if there's one guy I'd wager on not ever reaching his ceiling it would be Coleman. He has more experience than Benjamin or Evans, but hasn't put it together. Granted, he's had QB issues but he doesn't seem like he has what it takes mentally to me.
As a South Carolina fan, they're extremely comparable as prospects. I was honestly surprised to see Alshon being used on things such as reverses, he never really showed that level of athleticism in college. He played very similarly to how Benjamin plays now, using sheer physical ability to beat defenders.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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As a South Carolina fan, they're extremely comparable as prospects. I was honestly surprised to see Alshon being used on things such as reverses, he never really showed that level of athleticism in college. He played very similarly to how Benjamin plays now, using sheer physical ability to beat defenders.
Yeah, I actually didn't really understand the pick for the Bears as I thought Alshon's best case scenario would be a not-as-good version of what Brandon Marshall is. I'm guessing maybe SC didn't use him that way because they always had guys like Ace Sanders, Bruce Ellington who were more speed guys.
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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Just look at the glorious improvement he had from last season to this season.

The kid is a physical freak, I love his size and potential. Sure a lot of bigger receivers have not done as well in the NFL, but this kid can go up and get the ball. That will never be something teams do not want in the NFL. Will see what he measures at, but basically he is what 10 or 15 pounds away from being in a TE body but he has receiver skills. Kid is huge, there have been tall guys before but not many with his physical bulk and athletic ability.

I love him as a prospect.

People said the same thing about Patterson last year, about how raw he was and he could not run routes that well. That did not seem to matter that much. sure Benjamin is not a start return man like Patterson, but he could easily be a star end zone target right away in the NFL.



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Cigaro As a South Carolina fan, they're extremely comparable as prospects. I was honestly surprised to see Alshon being used on things such as reverses, he never really showed that level of athleticism in college. He played very similarly to how Benjamin plays now, using sheer physical ability to beat defenders.
Very good point, and Alshon for some stupid reason dropped in the draft because what, he was too slow and did not run good routes? Obviously those things are issues but when you have physical size and strength as a receiver with the ability to run and catch the ball, running routes can be taught.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Benjamin is a great athlete but he is not on the level of Patterson in that respect.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Just look at the glorious improvement he had from last season to this season.

The kid is a physical freak, I love his size and potential. Sure a lot of bigger receivers have not done as well in the NFL, but this kid can go up and get the ball. That will never be something teams do not want in the NFL. Will see what he measures at, but basically he is what 10 or 15 pounds away from being in a TE body but he has receiver skills. Kid is huge, there have been tall guys before but not many with his physical bulk and athletic ability.

I love him as a prospect.

People said the same thing about Patterson last year, about how raw he was and he could not run routes that well. That did not seem to matter that much. sure Benjamin is not a start return man like Patterson, but he could easily be a star end zone target right away in the NFL.
The thing is, he doesn't go up and get the ball. He is a body catcher, which means he doesn't really use his height to its full advantage. He has bad hands. He drops easy passes on a regular basis. And the reason people loved Patterson wasn't that he was a jump ball specialist or anything, but that he was one of the best open-field runners we've ever seen, and he has already lived up to that expectation - he pretty quietly scored 9 touchdowns 3 different ways last year (4 receiving, 3 rushing, 2 kick return) and had over 2000 all purpose yards. Benjamin isn't going to do that for anybody; any team that drafts him has to hope he turns into a Calvin Johnson sort of player, but Calvin's got amazing hands and uses his size much better. Kelvin is so, so raw, and he's got an awful lot of work to do with his hands (meaning not just not-dropping but extending away from his body for the ball, so he can take advantage of that huge wingspan), before he's a starting-caliber wide receiver. I can't justify taking him in the first on his size alone, because I really believe he's going to be riding the pine for awhile. He's a bigger project and much more of an unknown than some people are making him out to be. Size and speed can do a lot in college, especially with an NFL-caliber quarterback and other NFL-caliber players on offense to take the pressure off. I am not drinking the Kelvin Benjamin Kool-Aid. I'd take him in like the third or fourth as a multi-year project.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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The thing is, he doesn't go up and get the ball. He is a body catcher, which means he doesn't really use his height to its full advantage.








Saying Benjamin doesn't go up and get the ball is pretty much the epitome of wrong.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Yea...Benjamin high points and catches the ball with his hands as well as any prospect you will see whose not Larry Fitzgerald. He might let some get to his body in the intermediate area, but he's far from the first to do that.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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I probably haven't seen enough games. I watched a couple last night and the drops were exasperating me. I like size and speed guys as much as anyone, but I have a hard time endorsing receivers who I see dropping a lot of passes, which is my impression of him so far. Obviously the high-point catches he does make are in his highlight reels.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:29 AM    (permalink
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The thing is, he doesn't go up and get the ball. He is a body catcher, which means he doesn't really use his height to its full advantage.
This isnít a ridiculous statement.

I donít care what their measurables suggest. Kelvin Benjamin might be bigger, faster, and jump higher than Mike Evans in workouts. Evans still dominates him at the catch point in game situations.

From what Iíve seen, Benjamin is an overrated prospect. To be quite honest, I wouldnít consider him until the third round as a personnel specialist/project. Even then, Iíd have to be confident in the development skills of the offensive coordinator and wide receiver coach and the work ethic of Benjamin. Itís clear heís got intriguing tools. But thereís notable concerns, too. He doesnít maximize his frame. On the field, heís smaller than his listed height and length. He does have a bad habit of letting the ball get into him and it narrows his catching radius. Itís not a constant issue, and heís got some signature grabs where he climbs to get the ball that people remember, but itís an issue nonetheless. Iíd like to see a more consistent, powerful plucker since Iím investing in (what I hope will be) a premier jump-ball threat at the next level.
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:39 AM    (permalink
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This is just ridiculous talk, he cannot go up and get the ball....sure....


The kid is a possible touch down machine at the next level. Great red zone target, these bad hands I just do not seen. Sure he is a little careless with the ball and he will have to fix that.

His speed is very underrated, the kid can run by people. Against Florida he literally ran right by Purifoy who I think is a little overrated, but still is what a late 1st or 2nd round pick?

It is not like he is doing it against a bunch of awful defenses like Adams on Fresno State.

I love his potential, those that consider him raw, that is fine but the draft is about talent and upside a lot of the time. Not just simply what has been proven or seen on the field. Of course Patterson was drafted because of his return potential and ability after the catch. But last year that was what people talked about, how raw he was and he was not a good route runner etc.

Physical talent means a lot, and Benjamin has great size and very good speed. A type of speed other receivers as big as he was in the past did not have.

Just on simple fade routes or back shoulder throws he could kill it in the NFL. Take him on Pittsburgh, he would instantly make that Steelers offense better, provide a great target for Big Ben and help blocking in the run game as well.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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This isnít a ridiculous statement.

I donít care what their measurables suggest. Kelvin Benjamin might be bigger, faster, and jump higher than Mike Evans in workouts. Evans still dominates him at the catch point in game situations.

From what Iíve seen, Benjamin is an overrated prospect. To be quite honest, I wouldnít consider him until the third round as a personnel specialist/project. Even then, Iíd have to be confident in the development skills of the offensive coordinator and wide receiver coach and the work ethic of Benjamin. Itís clear heís got intriguing tools. But thereís notable concerns, too. He doesnít maximize his frame. On the field, heís smaller than his listed height and length. He does have a bad habit of letting the ball get into him and it narrows his catching radius. Itís not a constant issue, and heís got some signature grabs where he climbs to get the ball that people remember, but itís an issue nonetheless. Iíd like to see a more consistent, powerful plucker since Iím investing in (what I hope will be) a premier jump-ball threat at the next level.
you get physical with Evans he tends to disappear. look at how LSU played him, and how Belue played him before he got injured when playing Bama. also look at how Mizzou played him. im not endorsing one or the other, but both guys are considered the best high point guys in the draft. plus look at the snaps Evans got compared to Benjamin as redshirt freshman.

hell i think Adams is actually the best climb the ladder guy. both the other guys round out the top 3.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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hell i think Adams is actually the best climb the ladder guy. both the other guys round out the top 3.
For truth. He's reputed to have a 40" vert. The crazy catch against SMU was what put him on my radar. Not sure why I was watching that game, but he sure stood out.

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Old 02-07-2014, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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For truth. He's reputed to have a 40" vert. The crazy catch against SMU was what put him on my radar. Not sure why I was watching that game, but he sure stood out.

i remember watching that game (SMU) and was very impressed with his vertical catching ability after hearing about him as a redshirt fres. i do not get many Fresno St games in NC, but i watched Carr's cut ups and focused on Adams the entire time and he damn near caught a red zone TD in every game where he had to go up and high point the ball with a defender on him. other TDs came off screens and slants, but was also in the red zone which means he has a knack for getting inside of the box.

this is the type of WR the panthers need. somebody who has the ability to get vertical up the field, and can go up and get the ball. when Cam misses, most of the time it is high, so having a guy like this would be ideal weapon for Cam. plus numerous times in the red zone, we had no one to throw a fade route, or get a WR to get any separation. Lafell is 6'2 200+ but plays like he is 5'10 180 pounds.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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He's being hyped at this point in the draft process, to go somewhere in the range of 17-25. so NFL people are impressed by what they saw on film, now he just has to demonstrate at the Combine that he has the physical skills to go along with his height and weight. Non of the above were getting that kind of hype this late in the process.

1. Limas Sweed was never hyped to go in in the 17-25 range? Because there seem to be an awful lot of 2008 mock drafts still floating around the internet that seem to indicate otherwise.


2. It does not follow that because he is 'hyped' at any point in the draft process to go anywhere, that 'NFL people' formed a final opinion about him. Allegedly, Geno Smith was hyped to be the second overall pick last year.

We are the ones doing the hyping, and we are not 'NFL people'.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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but I have a hard time endorsing receivers who I see dropping a lot of passes, which is my impression of him so far. Obviously the high-point catches he does make are in his highlight reels.

Where was this thought process in 2003-2005? Good grief.


No, I'm not talking about you specifically Caulib.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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Here's my thing with Benjamin: nothing would shock me.

If he develops into one of the top 5 WR's in the NFL, wouldn't shock me. He's a great athlete. Limited football experience, so there's still a ton of room to grow.

If he's the next Jon Baldwin, wouldn't shock me. Baldwin did many of the same things very well, and he tested off the charts. In last year's draft, I might have considered him worth a gamble at the end of the 1st. In this year's draft, I would not. The WR position is so strong, and there are plenty of high-caliber athletes who are much safer and already good football players. You don't need your WR's to be Calvin Johnson. If you're spending a high pick on one, the main concern should be the chances they'll at least be very good.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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We are the ones doing the hyping, and we are not 'NFL people'.
He thinks people who write for NFL.com are "NFL people."

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Here's my thing with Benjamin: nothing would shock me.

If he develops into one of the top 5 WR's in the NFL, wouldn't shock me. He's a great athlete. Limited football experience, so there's still a ton of room to grow.

If he's the next Jon Baldwin, wouldn't shock me. Baldwin did many of the same things very well, and he tested off the charts. In last year's draft, I might have considered him worth a gamble at the end of the 1st. In this year's draft, I would not. The WR position is so strong, and there are plenty of high-caliber athletes who are much safer and already good football players. You don't need your WR's to be Calvin Johnson. If you're spending a high pick on one, the main concern should be the chances they'll at least be very good.
And this is pretty much exactly my perspective. I wouldn't be shocked either way, but there are so many other receivers who I like better, who are more polished and have better hands and whatnot, that unless I can really afford a gamble (Rams, maybe?) I just have a hard time taking him before the third or fourth. The Rams actually make a lot of sense as a landing spot, now that I think about it. Maybe if they could trade down and pick up an extra pick first.

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Old 02-08-2014, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Anybody know why Benjamin was a 23 year-old Sophomore?
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Anybody know why Benjamin was a 23 year-old Sophomore?
Technically he only just turned 23 a couple of days ago. I know he redshirted a year, but after that I'm not sure, I can only guess he was perhaps held back a year in school at some point.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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This is the one receiver I don't want the 49ers to acquire. Maybe he tears it up in the pros, but I'm just not sold on him. From what I've seen he just seems slow to me. I don't know if he'll be able to separate at the next level. He might still need to polish his route work too. I'll have to go back and look at some of his games again. Just initial impressions I wasn't sold. That and he only had one big season.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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This is the one receiver I don't want the 49ers to acquire. Maybe he tears it up in the pros, but I'm just not sold on him. From what I've seen he just seems slow to me. I don't know if he'll be able to separate at the next level. He might still need to polish his route work too. I'll have to go back and look at some of his games again. Just initial impressions I wasn't sold. That and he only had one big season.
He only played two seasons...
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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He only played two seasons...
Yes. Precisely.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Anybody know why Benjamin was a 23 year-old Sophomore?
He was held back when he was really young.
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