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Old 02-06-2014, 10:24 AM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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Originally Posted by E_Bird View Post
I think it'd be very smart for SF to draft Hill. You can argue that when they match up, the disparity between Lynch and Gore is one of the key deciding factors. I love Gore. But at this point in his career, he's excelling via vision and instincts - as opposed to physical dominance (like Lynch). Seattle's D hits Gore harder than he hits them; the opposite is true in Lynch's case. Lattimore is very physical, but we don't know what he'll look like coming off of that injury. Hill would give them a physical presence at RB that narrows that gap. Also, Seattle has two 220 lb horses (Turbin and Michael) sitting behind Lynch. SF has much smaller back in Hunter and James. As much as SF wants to run the ball (which I love), they should prioritize the position.
I agree with most everything your saying. I just don't beleive Baalke will prioritize the position THIS year to spend a pick on a guy like Hill, that early in this draft. Not when we have depth issues are certain areas. Maybe they do draft one later, but I don't think they touch one within the first 5 rounds.

And they saw enough of Lattimore late in the season, during the 3 week window he was allowed to practice to determine whether or not his a viable option and according to reports, he got rave reviews for how well he looked.

Also, Gore's issues with Seattle in the NFCCG game was more the O-Line's issues. People forget his 51 yard run to seal the game aginst the Hawks in SF. Gore is still effective against that defense when the O-Line is playing up to their standard. In the NFCCG, they were just flat out awful and thus, Gore's lack of effectiveness.

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Old 02-07-2014, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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I agree with most everything your saying. I just don't beleive Baalke will prioritize the position THIS year to spend a pick on a guy like Hill, that early in this draft. Not when we have depth issues are certain areas. Maybe they do draft one later, but I don't think they touch one within the first 5 rounds.

And they saw enough of Lattimore late in the season, during the 3 week window he was allowed to practice to determine whether or not his a viable option and according to reports, he got rave reviews for how well he looked.

Also, Gore's issues with Seattle in the NFCCG game was more the O-Line's issues. People forget his 51 yard run to seal the game aginst the Hawks in SF. Gore is still effective against that defense when the O-Line is playing up to their standard. In the NFCCG, they were just flat out awful and thus, Gore's lack of effectiveness.
Before this post, I hadn't heard about Lattimore showing well in practice, so that does change things. Thanks for the heads up. I think it's a little unfair to say the SF O-line was awful in the NFCCG. I agree that they were ineffective, but Seattle does that to a lot of teams, and they're as brash as anyone about putting an 8th defender (who happens to be the baddest - not best, but baddest - safety in the NFL) in the box. Again, I love Gore, but he's a guy who slithers through holes more than a guy who will break a bunch of tackles - like Lattimore (if he's healthy) or Hill. SF probably won't draft RB high, but if I were in the front office, I'd look at areas that separate the two teams. Secondary and depth at pass rusher are the two obvious areas, but I also think the physical presence at RB separates the two teams. By the 2nd half, Lynch is wearing on the SF D, and the holes get a little bigger.

I'm a Dolphins fan, but Seattle and SF are my two favorite teams to watch. It's almost unfair that they're in the same division.
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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I have a very strong feeling that SF will leave this draft with either Hill or Hyde at RB. Gore is aging, Lattimore is an unknown and Hunter is an average player who will be a FA soon.
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
I agree with most everything your saying. I just don't beleive Baalke will prioritize the position THIS year to spend a pick on a guy like Hill, that early in this draft. Not when we have depth issues are certain areas. Maybe they do draft one later, but I don't think they touch one within the first 5 rounds.

And they saw enough of Lattimore late in the season, during the 3 week window he was allowed to practice to determine whether or not his a viable option and according to reports, he got rave reviews for how well he looked.

Also, Gore's issues with Seattle in the NFCCG game was more the O-Line's issues. People forget his 51 yard run to seal the game aginst the Hawks in SF. Gore is still effective against that defense when the O-Line is playing up to their standard. In the NFCCG, they were just flat out awful and thus, Gore's lack of effectiveness.
The 49ers could always target a guy in the later rounds like Andre Williams or Terrance West. Hill would be nice though.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:20 AM    (permalink
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I'd say corner's the biggest need. Brown's a FA and Rogers is probably a cap casualty too. They need all the money they can spare so the cheapest route is going to be just going full rebuild in the secondary around Reid.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:29 AM    (permalink
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I'd say corner's the biggest need. Brown's a FA and Rogers is probably a cap casualty too. They need all the money they can spare so the cheapest route is going to be just going full rebuild in the secondary around Reid.
We could be losing Whitner, Brown, and Rogers. Rogers I don't mind leaving, Brown I could live with, but I hope we bring back Whitner. He had a bounce-back season and is a great leader for the team. We could go corner and I wouldn't mind that. Either corner or receiver should be the priority in the draft.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:39 AM    (permalink
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We could be losing Whitner, Brown, and Rogers. Rogers I don't mind leaving, Brown I could live with, but I hope we bring back Whitner. He had a bounce-back season and is a great leader for the team. We could go corner and I wouldn't mind that. Either corner or receiver should be the priority in the draft.
Cooks would be a great addition at WR because he could potentially double as someone who could work the slot and play outside. I wouldn't be so excited about a possession type of guy. Give Kaep a guy who will let him show off his arm. Cooks could be a T.Y. Hilton type of player.
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Cooks would be a great addition at WR because he could potentially double as someone who could work the slot and play outside. I wouldn't be so excited about a possession type of guy. Give Kaep a guy who will let him show off his arm. Cooks could be a T.Y. Hilton type of player.
Bleh. I don't know. I keep thinking we'll get another Kyle Williams. Someone that might be quick and ideal for the slot, but can't get off the jam because they're not big enough. In our offense it seems like either Kaepernick and/or Roman like to throw way too many contested balls to our receivers. Boldin, Davis, and Crabtree are catching a lot of balls thrown to them in traffic instead of working with open space. And if we get in the redzone, if we like to throw fade routes, I'd rather it be on someone that is tall and has a great chance of catching those balls. Vernon Davis is always double covered, and Boldin and Crabtree are only 6'1''.

I want Mike Evans if I had to pick a receiver to go after. There doesn't seem to be someone in this draft that has great height and is a burner unfortunately. We'll see how Evans does at the combine, but I could live with what speed I've seen from him. He has the ability to fight for the ball in traffic though and with that 6'5'' frame he can come down with those fade balls. We would have to trade up to get in position to acquire him. I'm fine with that though. We need another playmaker in the passing game. Boldin coming back isn't a guarantee. Plus he's going to be 34.
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Wow. 49ers are in such a great position with a stacked roster and so many high picks. The way Jim Harbaugh used tight ends at Stanford, I wouldn't be surprised to see SF take one of the top guys there. Trade up for Ebron?

They could really go in so many directions. It must be pretty exciting to be a fan of that team right now.
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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Wow. 49ers are in such a great position with a stacked roster and so many high picks. The way Jim Harbaugh used tight ends at Stanford, I wouldn't be surprised to see SF take one of the top guys there. Trade up for Ebron?

They could really go in so many directions. It must be pretty exciting to be a fan of that team right now.
Well Baalke is the trigger man when it comes to making the picks in the draft. I don't see the 49ers going in that direction. We already took a tight end in the third round last season with Vance McDonald to replace Delanie Walker.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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Well Baalke is the trigger man when it comes to making the picks in the draft. I don't see the 49ers going in that direction. We already took a tight end in the third round last season with Vance McDonald to replace Delanie Walker.
Actually, I'm hoping we DO draft Ebron. Or a real H-Back type who can do some damage with the ball in his hands. Its obvious JH favors TEs and heavy personnel. We're in 2 and 3 TE sets and 2 RBs sets more than anybody in the league. Might as well beef up those personnel groups with more dynamic playmakers. Instead of kicking Miller out wide where he's virtually no threat to do anything, why not a more athletic, H-Back type? Makes sense to me. Might not necessarily be Ebron but I perfectly fine with another athletic, TE with great speed. VD will be 30 soon so it wouldn't hurt to draft someone for him to help mold. I really like McDonald but he's more of the tradtional TE but plenty athletic for how big he is. Ebron to me seems more of a that dynamic playmaker with WR-like speed, in the mold of VD.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Actually, I'm hoping we DO draft Ebron. Or a real H-Back type who can do some damage with the ball in his hands. Its obvious JH favors TEs and heavy personnel. We're in 2 and 3 TE sets and 2 RBs sets more than anybody in the league. Might as well beef up those personnel groups with more dynamic playmakers. Instead of kicking Miller out wide where he's virtually no threat to do anything, why not a more athletic, H-Back type? Makes sense to me. Might not necessarily be Ebron but I perfectly fine with another athletic, TE with great speed. VD will be 30 soon so it wouldn't hurt to draft someone for him to help mold. I really like McDonald but he's more of the tradtional TE but plenty athletic for how big he is. Ebron to me seems more of a that dynamic playmaker with WR-like speed, in the mold of VD.
I'll be pissed if we take another tight end early. We need help at receiver right now in the worst way. Especially since we don't know for sure if Boldin is coming back. Don't want another year where our passing game sputters early because the receivers aren't getting separation and/or off the jam. Vernon Davis at 30 isn't a problem. I wouldn't expect him to start slowing down until he's 32+ years old. The 49ers roster is stacked right now. We need a starter on offense, not someone to sit behind Vernon that isn't going to be thrown to.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 02-08-2014, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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I'll be pissed if we take another tight end early. We need help at receiver right now in the worst way. Especially since we don't know for sure if Boldin is coming back. Don't want another year where our passing game sputters early because the receivers aren't getting separation and/or off the jam. Vernon Davis at 30 isn't a problem. I wouldn't expect him to start slowing down until he's 32+ years old. The 49ers roster is stacked right now. We need a starter on offense, not someone to sit behind Vernon that isn't going to be thrown to.
Ness, which WR's are you targeting in the 1st for SF assuming they stay put at 30?
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Ness, which WR's are you targeting in the 1st for SF assuming they stay put at 30?
Well, I would like to go after Mike Evans from who is available. He won't make it to 30. The 49ers would have to move up, which they certainly can do with the 13 picks they have, including six in the first three rounds. After that I would say Allen Robinson who probably will be at that 30 spot. Sammy Watkins is out of the question and the 49ers would have to give up way too much to get in position to acquire him. Unless there is a Calvin Johnson clone it isn't worth it to me. Marqise Lee would be cool, but the 49ers would have to move up for him. I just wish he was taller. None of our receivers are above 6'1''. And that is an issue with the amount of balls Kaepernick throws that are contested catches. Jordan Matthews would be okay. Good size, I just don't feel that he doesn't any one thing particularly well.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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Well, I would like to go after Mike Evans from who is available. He won't make it to 30. The 49ers would have to move up, which they certainly can do with the 13 picks they have, including six in the first three rounds. After that I would say Allen Robinson who probably will be at that 30 spot. Sammy Watkins is out of the question and the 49ers would have to give up way too much to get in position to acquire him. Unless there is a Calvin Johnson clone it isn't worth it to me. Marqise Lee would be cool, but the 49ers would have to move up for him. I just wish he was taller. None of our receivers are above 6'1''. And that is an issue with the amount of balls Kaepernick throws that are contested catches. Jordan Matthews would be okay. Good size, I just don't feel that he doesn't any one thing particularly well.
I like Robinson. He may not have blazing straight line speed, but he has high caliber short area quickness for a guy that size, and he high points the ball well.

Not high on Moncrief?
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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I really like Moncrief and he can be had in the second, which would allow us to target someone else in the first. Adams I wouldn't mind but I'm really high on Moncrief. Devin Street is someone else who I think will who could be a really good pro. After Watkins, none of the first round guys are worth it IMO. But to me, replacing Whitner is #1 priority. Even before drafting a WR. And I really want Pryor in the first round. Pryor and a guy like Moncrief in the second and I will be dancing in the streets. If we miss out on Pryor, I'd take the Joyner if we stand pat at 30. Or either Exum or Ward in the second. Most fans are worried about WR but I'm not really. Boldin will be back(which is why I'm almost postive Whitner will be gone) and I saw enough from Patton to be fine with him as the #3. So whoever we draft, isn't going to see much of the field anyway. Beefing up the secondary is #1 priority though. Need at least 1 safety and 2-3 CBs out of this draft so that's where I think the focus should be.

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Old 02-09-2014, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Niners should snag both Matthews and Robinson to beef up the height of that WR corps. It'd be a lot easier to move up in the 2nd for Matthews than to move up in the 1st. Lee would add an interesting element too, as would Cooks or Beckham.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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I really like Moncrief and he can be had in the second, which would allow us to target someone else in the first. Adams I wouldn't mind but I'm really high on Moncrief. Devin Street is someone else who I think will who could be a really good pro. After Watkins, none of the first round guys are worth it IMO. But to me, replacing Whitner is #1 priority. Even before drafting a WR. And I really want Pryor in the first round. Pryor and a guy like Moncrief in the second and I will be dancing in the streets. If we miss out on Pryor, I'd take the kid from NIU in the second or Exum. Most fans are worried about WR but I'm not really. Boldin will be back(which is why I'm almost postive Whitner will be gone) and I saw enough from Patton to be fine with him as the #3. So whoever we draft, isn't going to see much of the field anyway. Beefing up the secondary is #1 priority though. Need at least 1 safety and 2-3 CBs out of this draft so that's where I think the focus should be.
Jimmie Ward is moving up on a lot of media draft boards. Rang has him going #31 to Denver. I've said it before, but he has the closest skill set to Earl Thomas since Earl Thomas. Now, ET wouldn't be nearly as valuable in a conventional 2-deep look. So if you're running a scheme with 2-deep, maybe Ward isn't as interesting. I'm also not saying he'll be on Thomas' level. That's very unfair to any prospect. Just as I compared Thomas to Ed Reed but said it isn't fair to expect him to be THAT good. To me, Ward is the best safety in the draft. He does everything well. I like Pryor, but I love Ward. I wouldn't be against Miami drafting him at 19. It'd allow us to put Jones in the box - where he's much better - and allow us to restore our Run D while not sacrificing our improved Pass D. I like Ward that much.
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Old 02-09-2014, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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I like Robinson. He may not have blazing straight line speed, but he has high caliber short area quickness for a guy that size, and he high points the ball well.

Not high on Moncrief?
I think Moncrief would be okay. I might want Davante Adams more so. Or Jordan Matthews. The more I see out of the top receivers listed coming out in the draft, the more I'm comfortable not taking one as high. At the same time we could lose Boldin and Crabtree a year from now. So whoever we get is going to have to be for the long haul.
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Old 02-09-2014, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Jimmie Ward is moving up on a lot of media draft boards. Rang has him going #31 to Denver. I've said it before, but he has the closest skill set to Earl Thomas since Earl Thomas. Now, ET wouldn't be nearly as valuable in a conventional 2-deep look. So if you're running a scheme with 2-deep, maybe Ward isn't as interesting. I'm also not saying he'll be on Thomas' level. That's very unfair to any prospect. Just as I compared Thomas to Ed Reed but said it isn't fair to expect him to be THAT good. To me, Ward is the best safety in the draft. He does everything well. I like Pryor, but I love Ward. I wouldn't be against Miami drafting him at 19. It'd allow us to put Jones in the box - where he's much better - and allow us to restore our Run D while not sacrificing our improved Pass D. I like Ward that much.
I really like Ward as well. Honestly, I think Ward might be a better CB in the pros than a safety, depending on what he runs. He's a very savvy player and I think he understands concepts and how to play the angles, which is a gift in itself. He has what I call spacial awareness, and he has it in spades. And with as much zone and off-man coverage we play, CB conversion might work for him in our scheme. His versatility is what's most enticing about him as a prospect. That being said, I absolutely LOVE Pryor as a prospect more though. He has everything you look for in a top flight centerfielder. Size, speed, and instincts. He comes downhill like a heat-seeking missile. He hits like a LB, has crazy range sideline to sideline and he moves so well and fluid for his size. Only knock with him is he wasn't asked to play a lot of man coverage, which to me isn't a knock really. I don't need my safety over the slot, I'd rather my safety cover grass. You can impact the game much more. Alot was made of Earl Thomas's ability over the slot when he was drafted, yet he rarely has man responsibility with that defense and nor should he. Man coverage takes him away from the center of the field and allows the offense to isolate match-ups elsewhere. Playing him single-high and in zones allows his range and speed to impact the entire field, and that's what I see in Pryor. We rarely give our safties man responsibilities, which is why I would love Pryor in our scheme. I think he could really thrive with Fangio and our front seven. He and Reid could be the defintiton of inter-changeable safties. Ward's game is more polished than Pryor's at the moment but Pryor has a much higher ceiling to me.
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Old 02-09-2014, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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I really like Ward as well. Honestly, I think Ward might be a better CB in the pros than a safety, depending on what he runs. He's a very savvy player and I think he understands concepts and how to play the angles, which is a gift in itself. He has what I call spacial awareness, and he has it in spades. And with as much zone and off-man coverage we play, CB conversion might work for him in our scheme. His versatility is what's most enticing about him as a prospect. That being said, I absolutely LOVE Pryor as a prospect more though. He has everything you look for in a top flight centerfielder. Size, speed, and instincts. He comes downhill like a heat-seeking missile. He hits like a LB, has crazy range sideline to sideline and he moves so well and fluid for his size. Only knock with him is he wasn't asked to play a lot of man coverage, which to me isn't a knock really. I don't need my safety over the slot, I'd rather my safety cover grass. You can impact the game much more. Alot was made of Earl Thomas's ability over the slot when he was drafted, yet he rarely has man responsibility with that defense and nor should he. Man coverage takes him away from the center of the field and allows the offense to isolate match-ups elsewhere. Playing him single-high and in zones allows his range and speed to impact the entire field, and that's what I see in Pryor. We rarely give our safties man responsibilities, which is why I would love Pryor in our scheme. I think he could really thrive with Fangio and our front seven. He and Reid could be the defintiton of inter-changeable safties. Ward's game is more polished than Pryor's at the moment but Pryor has a much higher ceiling to me.
Pryor probably isn't going to make it past Green Bay. The 49ers would have to trade up to get him if they really want him. And I don't think they do that unless Whitner leaves for free agency. I'd like to think Whitner is coming back though.
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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From a video I watched on bleacherreport, one of the guys who covers the 49ers said that he thinks its possible for Brown, Whitner and Rogers to be back for 2014. Whitner has the highest chance at coming back. Rogers depends on if he takes a pay cut or not. Brown has already been offered a 4 year $14m contract which im hoping he declines. Team also paid Brown $300k late in the season to make up the $2m he lost last off-season. Only another $1.7m to go. LOL.

Personally, im hoping that all three will be gone. Hoping for a CB/S or S/CB with our first two draft picks to replace those three. A center, a second CB, a kicker, two receivers, a backup OT, a backup safety to Reid and well, there goes at least 9 draft picks. Out of 12, im going to guess we end up with 8 players. Definitely see Baalke moving up for another safety like last year or a cornerback.

RB and the front seven are positions that I wouldnt even bother with unless there's a player who's a steal in the mid to late rounds. Early, no way because the team has to replace the starters that its most likely going to lose.
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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I really like Ward as well. Honestly, I think Ward might be a better CB in the pros than a safety, depending on what he runs. He's a very savvy player and I think he understands concepts and how to play the angles, which is a gift in itself. He has what I call spacial awareness, and he has it in spades. And with as much zone and off-man coverage we play, CB conversion might work for him in our scheme. His versatility is what's most enticing about him as a prospect. That being said, I absolutely LOVE Pryor as a prospect more though. He has everything you look for in a top flight centerfielder. Size, speed, and instincts. He comes downhill like a heat-seeking missile. He hits like a LB, has crazy range sideline to sideline and he moves so well and fluid for his size. Only knock with him is he wasn't asked to play a lot of man coverage, which to me isn't a knock really. I don't need my safety over the slot, I'd rather my safety cover grass. You can impact the game much more. Alot was made of Earl Thomas's ability over the slot when he was drafted, yet he rarely has man responsibility with that defense and nor should he. Man coverage takes him away from the center of the field and allows the offense to isolate match-ups elsewhere. Playing him single-high and in zones allows his range and speed to impact the entire field, and that's what I see in Pryor. We rarely give our safties man responsibilities, which is why I would love Pryor in our scheme. I think he could really thrive with Fangio and our front seven. He and Reid could be the defintiton of inter-changeable safties. Ward's game is more polished than Pryor's at the moment but Pryor has a much higher ceiling to me.
Pryor is legit, and I think he'd probably be a better fit for what SF does on D, so I'm definitely not going to argue that point.

I had a really similar conversation with someone when Berry and Thomas were the top safety prospects, and he suggested that Thomas might be better served as a CB in the NFL. I'm not saying you're wrong on this point - just had to point out how eerily similar the discussions are (from my standpoint, anyway).
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Pryor is legit, and I think he'd probably be a better fit for what SF does on D, so I'm definitely not going to argue that point.

I had a really similar conversation with someone when Berry and Thomas were the top safety prospects, and he suggested that Thomas might be better served as a CB in the NFL. I'm not saying you're wrong on this point - just had to point out how eerily similar the discussions are (from my standpoint, anyway).
I just like his man coverage ability that much. I wouldn't be mad with Ward as a FS. I just think he's strictly a FS, where as Pryor could thrive in and around the box as well and we could finally have those two inter-changeable safties we've been talking about since Fangio arrived.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Pryor probably isn't going to make it past Green Bay. The 49ers would have to trade up to get him if they really want him. And I don't think they do that unless Whitner leaves for free agency. I'd like to think Whitner is coming back though.
I don't think there's anyway we can afford Whitner. I think a team like Dallas or the Skins will offer him a nice chunk of change and he will be on the next thing smoking. This is his last shot at a payday and I think he will take it. Its already a forgone conclusion in my mind...
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