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Old 02-10-2014, 01:58 AM    (permalink
Dan#7
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Originally Posted by twiz View Post
If you think we do not need to celebrate this moment of courage, you're wrong.
I agree with you on everything you wrote but especially this part. This could be such a huge and positive statement for many young men and especially athletes, and Sam can be a very important role model and we need this. In these draft times where knocks on character seem to become valued more and more by a front office, his courage speaks highly of his character.

And I would love to see him in the AFC N. To me he seems to fit that shorter, stout and powerfull outside linebacker Steelers like, but if the Ravens want him to be groomed behind Dumervil/Suggs I am all for it.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:24 AM    (permalink
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There's such a strong unspoken code of conduct in a lockerroom I don't really see why having a cool player on a team's roster would be an issue.

I imagine a rudy cool athlete KNOWS he can't be overtly checking dudes out, i.e. staring hard in the lockerroom. He can't make sexually overt statements or provocative sexual innuendos about teammates, he can't talk about his boyfriend(s) in a sexually graphic manner....and that's about it.

It shouldn't be that much different than it is in any healthclub across the country, meaning that if a guy doesn't do or say something clearly rudy cool in the lockerroom, it's just another guy.

I think the hard part for some fans and players will be being forced to acknowledge in many ways they have a lot in common with rudy players, you know because they are MEN.

I think Sam is going to lose about 2-3 rounds from where he really should have been drafted, and if he's a bubble guy at the end of TC I think some teams will cut him and not even put him on the PS.

Until he crushes an NFL QB, some are still going to question Sam unfortunately.

I know the SKins could use him.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:20 AM    (permalink
niel89
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Good point. I think fans are going to be the ones with the biggest issues. Most players and coaches just want a guy who can help them win. Unless there is some individual who holds serious sway in that locker room that has a strong objection I don't think it is a major concern for the team itself. Owners & GMs will decide if its worth the positive and negative publicity. Some teams will pass just strictly because of the media attention it adds. Its strictly a business move for some teams.

Anyway you want to slice it, this is a major event in US sports. Very few athletes come out as *** even after their careers are over. Having a talent young man in this position is a great trial run to see how our sports culture handles it. He seems like he has his head on straight so he can be a good example to lead with. The best thing for him to do is get on a team, work hard , and produce. Playing well on the field will get his teammates trust and friendship. Winning cures everything in sports. I do hope he goes to a strong leadership team who can keep the locker room in line and keep non-football issues from happening.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:49 AM    (permalink
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He dropped his stock a couple rounds, but someone will get a steal.

Wouldn't be totally surprised if he went undrafted. Not sure a team is willing to let that story steal the headlines and bring the circus to town. ... not even San Fran.
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:31 AM    (permalink
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I laugh at these anonymous GMs trashing him.

Of course they're going to trash him anonymously. Anything that tries to force other teams to back off only helps their team's chances of drafting him.
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:40 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
There's such a strong unspoken code of conduct in a lockerroom I don't really see why having a cool player on a team's roster would be an issue.

I imagine a rudy cool athlete KNOWS he can't be overtly checking dudes out, i.e. staring hard in the lockerroom. He can't make sexually overt statements or provocative sexual innuendos about teammates, he can't talk about his boyfriend(s) in a sexually graphic manner....and that's about it.

It shouldn't be that much different than it is in any healthclub across the country, meaning that if a guy doesn't do or say something clearly rudy cool in the lockerroom, it's just another guy.

I think the hard part for some fans and players will be being forced to acknowledge in many ways they have a lot in common with rudy players, you know because they are MEN.

I think Sam is going to lose about 2-3 rounds from where he really should have been drafted, and if he's a bubble guy at the end of TC I think some teams will cut him and not even put him on the PS.

Until he crushes an NFL QB, some are still going to question Sam unfortunately.

I know the SKins could use him.
If he goes to a place where he is given a fair chance and can assimilate into the locker room then I think the opposite will and should happen.

Guys give each other **** all the time. There is no reason why Sam couldn't make innuendos about teammates. Hell, if teammates can say I ****** your sister, why can't Sam come back with I ****** your brother?

Now, there is obviously a line not to cross but I would argue that goes both ways.

I really don't think the issue is going to be with teammates. Maybe some older coaches could be an issue but realistically the problems are going to come from owners and fans. Owners are generally older and stuck in their ways (to say it nicely) whereas fans will always go way too far.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:18 AM    (permalink
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It took a lot of courage for him to come out but supposedly his teammates new in August and the scouts knew before this time because that is what the teammates said about him. So most of the scouts and GMs already knew and he wanted to claim it himself instead of having rumors about it coming through a scout or a GM.


Fact is, even before all of this I have kind of slowed on the Michael Sam hype. Really liked his game during the season but he was with an awfully talented defensive line on Missouri. He was a small speed rusher against bigger offensive linemen.

One could totally argue taking all of these possible 3/4 OLB ahead of him.

Anthony Barr UCLA
Khalil Mack Buffalo
Trent Murphy Stanford
Kony Ealy Missouri RS JR
Kyle Van Noy BYU
Dee Ford Auburn
Jeremiah Attaochu Georgia Tech
Jackson Jeffcoat Texas
Christian Jones Florida State
Carl Bradford Arizona State JR
Trevor Reilly Utah
Adrian Hubbard Alabama JR


Michael Sam Missouri

Could argue with a few of them, could argue Hubbard would not be taken over him but just on physical size alone it is hard to no like Hubbard as a prospect down the road, same with Reilly.


So I would not be shocked to see Sam drop, but that is not because of his game or him coming out saying he is openly Gay. It is because there are a lot of decent 3/4 OLB prospect in the draft and the fact he does not have ideal size for the position like his teammate Ealy that will hurt him.

Will see how he does at the combine though but I would not be shocked at all if he dropped to the 3rd round if not father. But sure someone will get good value in him as a player, athletic pass rusher with speed but big part will be can he hold up against the run and take on blocks. Not sure about that part of his game.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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I think some here are going to be shocked at how the real NFL is.
This isn't going to only push his stock down but also increase his chances of being cut and not picked up. NFL teams are very much built on ideals of the past and one mediocre DE prospect 80%+ of the US had never heardbof isn't going to change that. If Peyton Manning did, then maybe but probably not even then.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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He either wont get drafted or he will get taken by the seahawks or something just to say **** you to the rest of the league

Most, if not all teams will not want to take this on despite all the "this is great for the league" reports

He'll end up playing in Canada with Tony Washington
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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I think it has been a well agreed point that Sam wasn't as good a prospect as Kony Ealy or many others. Most would agree that he was probably anywhere from a low 2nd to 5th pick at this point with the chance to either move up or down based on workouts/interviews etc

Being gay doesn't drop him from being a first rounder to a 4th rounder for example. It is hard to say definitively whether he will fall or not because his "stock" was hard to pinpoint

If he goes undrafted then it will be evident
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
I think some here are going to be shocked at how the real NFL is.
This isn't going to only push his stock down but also increase his chances of being cut and not picked up. NFL teams are very much built on ideals of the past and one mediocre DE prospect 80%+ of the US had never heardbof isn't going to change that. If Peyton Manning did, then maybe but probably not even then.
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
He either wont get drafted or he will get taken by the seahawks or something just to say **** you to the rest of the league

Most, if not all teams will not want to take this on despite all the "this is great for the league" reports

He'll end up playing in Canada with Tony Washington
I think he will be drafted because, first of all he is a draftable talent. He is a bit of a tweener but his talent level is enough to be drafted. And secondly, the NFL owners know that it would be a really bad thing publicity wise if he goes undrafted. Yes, players go undrafted every year and being gay doesn't entitle him to be drafted, but answering questions from angry media outlets about not drafting the guy who was the SEC defensive player of the year would be as bad as drafting him and having the circus for the first while.

The issue is, no matter what happens there will be criticism from some quarters. Say he gets drafted in the 4th, doesn't work out and gets cut. This type of thing happens all the time, but if it happens to Sam people will ask, "did he get cut because he was gay?" But then again, if he sucks but the owner fears the backlash of cutting him and cuts someone else who should have made ths roster the question will be "did he cut the other guy because it's easier to deal with the backlash?"

But this is why so many players refused to come out previously because it becomes about more than just whether they can play football or not.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
He's a 2nd to 3rd rounder right now, it will be interesting to see how his stock reacts
For me here is the problem, I never saw him as a 2nd or 3d rounder but more of a 4th/5th. He isn't big or fast, struggled at his time at LB during the senior bowl week practices so I can see him falling and if that oes happen will the issue of him being gay they reason he went iin round 4/5
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
He either wont get drafted or he will get taken by the seahawks or something just to say **** you to the rest of the league

Most, if not all teams will not want to take this on despite all the "this is great for the league" reports

He'll end up playing in Canada with Tony Washington
I think some locker rooms can handle something like that... ie New England
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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Say he gets drafted in the 4th, doesn't work out and gets cut. This type of thing happens all the time, but if it happens to Sam people will ask, "did he get cut because he was gay?" .
This is a HUGEEEEEE part of it too. Good point
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:03 AM    (permalink
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I think he will be drafted because, first of all he is a draftable talent. He is a bit of a tweener but his talent level is enough to be drafted. And secondly, the NFL owners know that it would be a really bad thing publicity wise if he goes undrafted. Yes, players go undrafted every year and being gay doesn't entitle him to be drafted, but answering questions from angry media outlets about not drafting the guy who was the SEC defensive player of the year would be as bad as drafting him and having the circus for the first while.
Exactly, I think he has a role as a situational pass rusher in the NFL at the very least. I actually believe he is a better natural rusher then his hyped teammate Ealy imo. I have him in the 4-5 range pre combine because of his physical limitations (small DE/ not loose enough to be an OLB).

As for teams dropping him from their boards, don't think big brother isn't going to monitor his draft status. The NFL has their own draft advisory board that grades players even before they declare and know that on talent alone he is draftable. I wouldn't be surprised if they even send a league wide warning to teams to keep something like that from happening. They know it would be a huge PR hit to see the first openly homosexual draft eligible player to not get drafted.

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Old 02-10-2014, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
The MMQB's Peter King spoke to one NFL General Manager who does not expect Missouri edge rusher Michael Sam to be drafted.
"We talked about it this week," the GM said of Sam's sexual orientation. "First of all, we don’t think he’s a very good player. The reality is he’s an overrated football player in our estimation. Second: He’s going to have expectations about where he should be drafted, and I think he’ll be disappointed." The general manager went on to say that he thinks the news will impact the locker room of the team that selects Sam. It is worthwhile to note that this is just one decision maker, and others do not necessarily share the same sentiment
and I agree with the GM
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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I pay those "quotes" no mind because they don't put their name with it.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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He's a pass rusher so he would get drafted if he was straight or stayed in the closet. This isn't a high production run stuffing LB that ran a 5.1 forty or a safety that sucks in coverage/QB that can't throw that is being converted to another position. It's an undersized pass rusher that won DPOY in the SEC. The SEC DPOY has been drafted in the first round for like 6 consecutive years. The last guy that didnt was Chad Lavalais, an overaged DT with a small frame and he went in the 5th.

So him falling out of the mid rounds wouldn't be unexpected for someone with his projection. If he doesn't get drafted, though? Then the NFL and all 32 of its teams deserve to get roasted. This guy could wash out after a year or he could put on 25 pounds and be Charles Johnson. Every single team should rate that as a flyer in the 6th or 7th.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:13 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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I think people get too caught up with how poor some 34 OLB conversion prospects are in pass coverage. MOST of them suck at it and only ever become average dropping back.

I know Michael Sam wasn't a hot prospect or this consensus first rounder, but for people poor mouthing him now like he can't play football is ridiculous.

There aren't 10 better pass rushers in this draft than Sam. It's not like he's a punter.

Just looking at my team's conference the NFCE, Michael Sam would have a role on every one of those franchises.

I really have a difficult time believing Sam won't get selected in rounds 5-7.

The SEC DPOTY is suddenly overrated and not a very good football player??
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I think people get too caught up with how poor some 34 OLB conversion prospects are in pass coverage. MOST of them suck at it and only ever become average dropping back.

I know Michael Sam wasn't a hot prospect or this consensus first rounder, but for people poor mouthing him now like he can't play football is ridiculous.

There aren't 10 better pass rushers in this draft than Sam. It's not like he's a punter.

Just looking at my team's conference the NFCE, Michael Sam would have a role on every one of those franchises.

I really have a difficult time believing Sam won't get selected in rounds 5-7.

The SEC DPOTY is suddenly overrated and not a very good football player??
There have been plenty of great college players who just can't transition to the NFL due to height/speed/mental etc. Heck didn't Geg Hardy go round 7?
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:22 AM    (permalink
SchizophrenicBatman
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Dude the Eagles have Brandon Grahamzzzzz
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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It's going to be interesting to see if he gets drafted and in what round. If he gets drafted late or not at all everyone will make a big deal and say it was because he is gay and not pay attention to his actual skill as a player. The media can and probably will make this into some sort of crusade to villify the NFL.

It is going to be difficult for a team to make the call - will his projected value/production on the field offset any type of media frenzy that will be created due to his coming out for the organization that may select him.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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first thing is first...he has some dazzling to do at his workouts. Average times and numbers are not going to keep him where he was slated to go before the news came out
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:48 AM    (permalink
zachsaints52
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Good for him.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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I see varying draft grades on him, anywhere from 3rd round to 6th round.

For me personally, I like the guy. I think he's a talented pass rusher. My final opinion on him will be established after the combine but I like him as a nickel rusher who can potentially be more. He has a great motor, he's strong, he's fast enough, he plays with great leverage. He can use a changeup move but he'll learn that with coaching.

I want to see how fast he is. If he runs a good 40 and/or displays quick burst then I'm a big fan.

I could care less who he sleeps with. I see a good football player.
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