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Old 02-10-2014, 11:16 AM    (permalink
Babylon
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Guess I'm naive but beyond the media making this part of their 24 hour news cycle I don't see this as any kind of issue. People seem to forget this is 2014.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:27 AM    (permalink
twiz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoJoeBucsFan View Post
I pay those "quotes" no mind because they don't put their name with it.
Actually, that's exactly why you should pay attention to them.

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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
Guess I'm naive but beyond the media making this part of their 24 hour news cycle I don't see this as any kind of issue. People seem to forget this is 2014.
Then, to be completely blunt, you very much are naive.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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I'd be surprised if he went undrafted but, stranger things have happened. I applaud his courage and if the 49ers weren't full of capable 3-4 OLBs, I would say jump aboard.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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I think it's naive to think that people aren't bothered by homosexuality anymore.

I think what's happening is homosexuality is getting the same treatment that racism gets. It's become closeted (no pun).

20 years ago it was socially acceptable to openly hate gay people. That's why it was so open. 20 years ago it wasn't socially acceptable to openly hate some minorities. So they didn't. But it still existed, it was just behind closed doors.

Today homosexuality faces the same problem. It's no longer socially acceptable to openly make fun of them. So it will become closeted hate like racism.

The hate didn't go away, it just evolved.

Look at it this way, in 2000 when Eminem spewed hate lyrics towards **** many people didn't care. Dre even openly said he doesn't care what **** think about the lyrics bc he hated them. Openly said that.

Today? Both of their careers would be over if they said that. Do I think both of these people changed their stance in the past 14 years? No I don't. I think they still feel the same way they did then. But publicly, they'll say all the right things to avoid conflict.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if there are people here who feel the same way but don't want to speak up on it either.

We still have a long way to go as a society. I've always used internet message boards as the true barometer of social acceptance. Because when people are behind a screen with an anonymous handle, all the filters are off and their true feelings come out.

And when you read the hate that fills message boards on race, religion, sexuality etc, it's pretty clear that we still have a long way to go.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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I honestly don't think he'll have a problem in the locker room. Maybe a little bit of isolation, since there will teammates who keep their distance.

Media on the other hand...
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Because when people are behind a screen with an anonymous handle, all the filters are off and their true feelings come out.
I realize this is a bit off topic, but I absolutely still do filter myself on the internet. I wrote this on January 11th and decided not to post it, but I kept a copy in a word file.

I'll present it as a case of 'filtering myself'.




There are a lot of people who clown the other posters on this forum. Occasionally I get close to joining in on that, but simply put, I'd prefer if people didn't do that to me, and I'm thankful that you guys don't do that to me. As someone who lives with a 'treat others how you expect to be treated' philosophy, I try (and usually succeed) to stop myself.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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If I played with an openly gay teammate, I would make fun of him for being gay. The same way OL gets made fun of for being fat, punters and kickers for being, well, punters and kickers, QBs for being pretty boys etc etc. I wouldn't wear kid gloves, I wouldn't treat him any different.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twiz View Post
Actually, that's exactly why you should pay attention to them.



Then, to be completely blunt, you very much are naive.
Guess it depends on your life experiences. I've served with people who were Gay. Worked with **** and have a friend or two that is gay. Funny it doesn't seem to bother me.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
Guess it depends on your life experiences. I've served with people who were Gay. Worked with **** and have a friend or two that is gay. Funny it doesn't seem to bother me.
Yes, you. It doesn't bother me, either. But we're individuals. You have to look at the whole of the nation, where bigotry in all forms is still a major issue.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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A significant part of this story comes down to how Michael Sam acts about his sexuality and to this point, he has done a great job embracing the person he is. If we had a player come out and play the social 'victim' card, then I think it would create more of a potential problem for locker rooms. He has come out with his story and appears to have the personal confidence to carry the torch for this social issue.

You look at the other big stories of the last year with Te'o and Martin and those turned into **** shows because those guys were quick to play the 'victim' card (totally different circumstances I know) but it came down to them being individuals who were not fully honest with themselves and the choices they made in life.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengals78 View Post
If I played with an openly gay teammate, I would make fun of him for being gay. The same way OL gets made fun of for being fat, punters and kickers for being, well, punters and kickers, QBs for being pretty boys etc etc. I wouldn't wear kid gloves, I wouldn't treat him any different.
How would you make fun of him for being gay??


Since being called a **** is one of the most grievous insults you can use against another player, I don't know why all of sudden 'lighthearted' gaybashing would be okay.

I mean, you wouldn't specifically make fun a player for being White, Hispanic, Black, etc.
So why would you go there with a gay player??

I get teasing a player for his unique idiosyncrasies as an individual, but to go after him just because he's gay is risky.

You can only say to a guy so many times, 'so I hear you like sucking d ck', before there's gonna be a fight, even if he is gay.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
How would you make fun of him for being gay??


Since being called a **** is one of the most grievous insults you can use against another player, I don't know why all of sudden 'lighthearted' gaybashing would be okay.

I mean, you wouldn't specifically make fun a player for being White, Hispanic, Black, etc.
So why would you go there with a gay player??

I get teasing a player for his unique idiosyncrasies as an individual, but to go after him just because he's gay is risky.

You can only say to a guy so many times, 'so I hear you like sucking d ck', before there's gonna be a fight, even if he is gay.
I'm sorry, I understand to an extent why he is making his sexuality public, but my opinion is that he should keep that **** to himself and/or his circle of friends and family. I don't hate him or anyone else for being gay, but if I were in the locker room with him, yeah, I would avoid him simply because of the close proximity. It's not bigotry, it's called being honest about being repulsed by (knowing about) his actions. I would not be mean to the guy, but to say I would accept him fully would be a lie that a lot of people would like to hear.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
...that's like saying the sky is blue. It kind of went without saying.



When he's drafted, he will be the first openly *** player in the history of the NFL...but you think it shouldn't be news?

When humans land on Mars for the first time, are you going to say "jeez, we get it...just go about your business flying through space and stuff...enough already"?

WHO THE **** CARES??? There have been gay players in the NFL and other sports. What's the big deal about him having shared his sexuality with the public? You compare this **** to landing on the moon? Who is sensationalizing again? Geez....
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
I'm sorry, I understand to an extent why he is making his sexuality public, but my opinion is that he should keep that **** to himself and/or his circle of friends and family. I don't hate him or anyone else for being gay, but if I were in the locker room with him, yeah, I would avoid him simply because of the close proximity. It's not bigotry, it's called being honest about being repulsed by (knowing about) his actions. I would not be mean to the guy, but to say I would accept him fully would be a lie that a lot of people would like to hear.
Actually, that is the very definition of bigotry.

How often do you talk to other guys about women? What you're saying is that he needs to lie to people and go along with the women talk when he's not into that?

There's a difference between standing your ground and not being dishonest just to please other people, which is exactly what the Michael Sam situation sounds like, and acting like a victim or using sexual preference as a platform for attention.

Everyone deserves the right to be honest with who they are and not have to cater to other people's issues. And yes, your dislike of gay people is YOUR ISSUE (and one you should seek psychological help for because it almost certainly indicates a deeper emotional problem.)

Saying a gay guy is more likely to hit on you is like saying every woman you hang out with wants you. It's a ridiculous, ego driven statement that is completely and utterly false.

I fully applaud Michael Sam and I see no problem if he goes to a classy team with veteran leadership. I'd be very happy if this caused him to drop into the 4th and the Packers drafted him. Very good player.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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I think he's still a very draftable player, 3-6 round is where he should go. He has talent to rush the passer and is a smart kid.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
WHO THE **** CARES??? There have been gay players in the NFL and other sports. What's the big deal about him having shared his sexuality with the public? You compare this **** to landing on the moon? Who is sensationalizing again? Geez....
A lot of people care. Why is that a problem to you? If it's not a big deal to you then it should be easy to ignore and move on with your life.

Seems like a better use of time than being outraged about others seeing it as a big step.

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Old 02-10-2014, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
He dropped his stock a couple rounds, but someone will get a steal.

Wouldn't be totally surprised if he went undrafted. Not sure a team is willing to let that story steal the headlines and bring the circus to town. ... not even San Fran.
A steal? I don't know how you felt about him as a player, but you are aware than he had a terrible senior bowl practice week and was on his way down, correct?
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yo123 View Post
A lot of people care. Why is that a problem to you? If it's not a big deal to you then it should be easy to ignore and move on with your life.

Seems like a better use of time than being outraged about others seeing it as a big step.
I thought I told you what my problem with it was. There is a 4 page thread about this topic, I JUST weighed in a few minutes ago, so don't think this is a matter of me being outraged. I'm sorry, I just don't see it as some earth shattering event, nothing more, nothing less. He said it, and that's fine, but what else is there to say about it? You know damn well this is going to be turned into a circus.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
He dropped his stock a couple rounds, but someone will get a steal.

Wouldn't be totally surprised if he went undrafted. Not sure a team is willing to let that story steal the headlines and bring the circus to town. ... not even San Fran.
I'd be somewhat surprised if he went undrafted. Mike McCarthy has gone on record as saying that they don't care about his sexual orientation, as long as he fits what they're trying to do as an organization. Other teams no doubt feel the same way.

Obviously there will also be teams who have already taken him off their draft boards, but I'd be surprised if he goes undrafted.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry, I understand to an extent why he is making his sexuality public, but my opinion is that he should keep that **** to himself and/or his circle of friends and family. I don't hate him or anyone else for being gay, but if I were in the locker room with him, yeah, I would avoid him simply because of the close proximity. It's not bigotry, it's called being honest about being repulsed by (knowing about) his actions. I would not be mean to the guy, but to say I would accept him fully would be a lie that a lot of people would like to hear.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Actually, that is the very definition of bigotry.

How often do you talk to other guys about women? What you're saying is that he needs to lie to people and go along with the women talk when he's not into that?

There's a difference between standing your ground and not being dishonest just to please other people, which is exactly what the Michael Sam situation sounds like, and acting like a victim or using sexual preference as a platform for attention.

Everyone deserves the right to be honest with who they are and not have to cater to other people's issues. And yes, your dislike of gay people is YOUR ISSUE (and one you should seek psychological help for because it almost certainly indicates a deeper emotional problem.)

Saying a gay guy is more likely to hit on you is like saying every woman you hang out with wants you. It's a ridiculous, ego driven statement that is completely and utterly false.

I fully applaud Michael Sam and I see no problem if he goes to a classy team with veteran leadership. I'd be very happy if this caused him to drop into the 4th and the Packers drafted him. Very good player.
Here we go. You start off with ridiculous assumptions about me. I'm not going to play 20 questions with you, but the answer to your most important question "How often to you come into contact with ****" the answer is quite often as I work directly with the pubic. And you point is what, that if I am around them, I should change my opinion about there behavior? Sorry, it doesn't and that's not biogotry. I don't treat them any different than I would treat anyone else. The last time I checked, that would be equality and the absence of biotry.

Second of all, I probably have more credentials in the field of psychology than you do. If you think that everyone in the world must bow down to your views of homosexual behavior, I'd say that YOU are the one that needs psychological help. Apparently you can't accept that some people are not ashamed to stand by their beliefs and should crumble under the pressure of political correctness, and before you make yet another wreckless assumption, NO, I am not a conservative. Like I said, I don't agree with their lifestyle choice, but I certainly don't believe that they should be mistreated or judged as a person based on any one attribute. Sorry if that doesn't fit into the category of hate, homophobia or whatever other little boxes that were laid out for you.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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I'd be somewhat surprised if he went undrafted. Mike McCarthy has gone on record as saying that they don't care about his sexual orientation, as long as he fits what they're trying to do as an organization. Other teams no doubt feel the same way.

Obviously there will also be teams who have already taken him off their draft boards, but I'd be surprised if he goes undrafted.
Well, he has set things up real nice for himself. He was viewed as a tweener and in jeopardy of being a late rounder or undrafted. I don't see that being the case now.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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1) I doubt he gets drafted, if he does someone might get a steal
2) I think he ends up in Canada...where tony washington is currently dominating. He was the one that had sex with his sister when he was 15 and got slapped with the sex offender title. Went undrafted but has made a great career in toronto
3) Not saying being gay = banging your sister, but there is a stigma that teams wont want to have to be the one to deal with. From the outside, as well as in the locker room.
4) Sure, a lot of players will be ok with it...but a lot wont. A lot are very religious, and a lot are very uneducated and ignorant
5) The BIGGEST problem in my opinion (as stated earlier) is that if hes drafted in the 4th or 5th round and gets cut (happens ALL the time), there will be nonstop questions on whether it was because hes gay or not. You draft him you have be be absolutely sure theres a place for him in the locker room and a spot for him to make an impact on the field because cutting him early in his career is a PR nightmare given the circumstances, can you be THAT sure?

Theres been gay players in all sports forever, but Mike Sam needs be be a successful one or hes just going to be the "proof" that **** are too girly to play in the league, or too soft, or dont have what it takes. sad but true
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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And I second what BBD said. "It's 2014" isn't a valid statement. That would maybe be acceptable for ethnicity/race, but definitely not sexuality. It's still a massive issue and there's a long way to go. It's 2014 and Michael Sam is gonn be the FIRST openly gay player in the NFL. We aren't even near sexuality being a non-issue.

Also, to those people saying "doubles standard"/"i thought they want equality?!?!" :
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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Hmm. Don't say what I am saying because you don't like it? Fat chance. I didn't make the thread and I didn't make the announcement, so no.
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