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Old 02-10-2014, 02:24 PM    (permalink
WCH
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You guys remember that almost-mass-coming-out-party last offseason? Where 3-4 current players were going to publicly come out?

Yeah, if Sam goes undrafted then that's totally going to happen before the start of next season. At least one of those guys is going to be sufficiently pissed off, and he's just going to get this thing started. The "openly gay NFL player" thing is about to happen, like it or not.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Right now, gay issues are where racial equality issues were 50 years ago. 15 years from now, everybody will wonder what all the fuss was about, like we do with race now.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
Here we go. You start off with ridiculous assumptions about me. I'm not going to play 20 questions with you, but the answer to your most important question "How often to you come into contact with ****" the answer is quite often as I work directly with the pubic. And you point is what, that if I am around them, I should change my opinion about there behavior? Sorry, it doesn't and that's not biogotry. I don't treat them any different than I would treat anyone else. The last time I checked, that would be equality and the absence of biotry.

Second of all, I probably have more credentials in the field of psychology than you do. If you think that everyone in the world must bow down to your views of homosexual behavior, I'd say that YOU are the one that needs psychological help. Apparently you can't accept that some people are not ashamed to stand by their beliefs and should crumble under the pressure of political correctness, and before you make yet another wreckless assumption, NO, I am not a conservative. Like I said, I don't agree with their lifestyle choice, but I certainly don't believe that they should be mistreated or judged as a person based on any one attribute. Sorry if that doesn't fit into the category of hate, homophobia or whatever other little boxes that were laid out for you.
You think Michael Sam should keep his sexuality to himself, because YOU don't agree it. How is that not bigotry?

You're moaning about not being allowed to say your preferences, but you don't want Michael Sam to talk about his preferences....

You'd avoid him? Lol. What do you thinks going to happen?
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
1) I doubt he gets drafted, if he does someone might get a steal
2) I think he ends up in Canada...where tony washington is currently dominating. He was the one that had sex with his sister when he was 15 and got slapped with the sex offender title. Went undrafted but has made a great career in toronto
3) Not saying being gay = banging your sister, but there is a stigma that teams wont want to have to be the one to deal with. From the outside, as well as in the locker room.
4) Sure, a lot of players will be ok with it...but a lot wont. A lot are very religious, and a lot are very uneducated and ignorant
5) The BIGGEST problem in my opinion (as stated earlier) is that if hes drafted in the 4th or 5th round and gets cut (happens ALL the time), there will be nonstop questions on whether it was because hes gay or not. You draft him you have be be absolutely sure theres a place for him in the locker room and a spot for him to make an impact on the field because cutting him early in his career is a PR nightmare given the circumstances, can you be THAT sure?

Theres been gay players in all sports forever, but Mike Sam needs be be a successful one or hes just going to be the "proof" that **** are too girly to play in the league, or too soft, or dont have what it takes. sad but true
This is pressure he has put on himself and also on the team who cuts him if that is the case. These same people who are celebrating his gayness are the ones who will be crying about him being cut because he was gay, not because he may not have a true NFL position or another thing else performance based. Now, if you think it's worth it and serves a larger cause, fine. There is a downside as well.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
5) The BIGGEST problem in my opinion (as stated earlier) is that if hes drafted in the 4th or 5th round and gets cut (happens ALL the time), there will be nonstop questions on whether it was because hes gay or not. You draft him you have be be absolutely sure theres a place for him in the locker room and a spot for him to make an impact on the field because cutting him early in his career is a PR nightmare given the circumstances, can you be THAT sure?
While I agree you have to be sure your locker room can accept him (I don't see that being much of an issue), I don't think it would be as huge of a deal if he ends up getting cut. You're forgetting in your scenario that the team will be first thought of as the team that gave him a chance and drafted an openly gay player. GMs can emphasize that he's a great guy, courageous and whatnot, but ultimately the decision was made on the field.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MidwestJimmy View Post
Right now, gay issues are where racial equality issues were 50 years ago. 15 years from now, everybody will wonder what all the fuss was about, like we do with race now.
Yeah, I think racial equality still has some ways to go. More so in Britain, but still.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
You think Michael Sam should keep his sexuality to himself, because YOU don't agree it. How is that not bigotry?

You're moaning about not being allowed to say your preferences, but you don't want Michael Sam to talk about his preferences....

You'd avoid him? Lol. What do you thinks going to happen?
Well, because it's not bigotry. Do you know what bigotry is? I don't fear him, I don't hate him, and yes, I would tolerate him if I had to. I don't wish him any ill will and I would not cause him any harm. But I believe what he is doing is not only wrong, but repulsive to me. And before you say it's not my business what he does, I agree with you. But he thought it was important that I know that.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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I thought I told you what my problem with it was. There is a 4 page thread about this topic, I JUST weighed in a few minutes ago, so don't think this is a matter of me being outraged. I'm sorry, I just don't see it as some earth shattering event, nothing more, nothing less. He said it, and that's fine, but what else is there to say about it? You know damn well this is going to be turned into a circus.
Michael Sam and his agent decided to come out about his orientation because NFL GMs already knew he came out to his teammates at Mizzou, and to prevent his draft stock from taking a hit about unspoken 'character concerns' Sam decided to get in front of the story and have it all be out in the open.

Now teams are forced to evaluate Michael Sam as a football player and not secretly give him a lower grade as a prospect because he's gay.

I don't know how anyone can't see this as a major sports event.
It's literally never happened before.

Historically I don't know if there's ever been a more homophobic workplace than the NFL.

Also a beat reporter can only ask someone 'what's it like to be a gay NFL player?' before the question gets old.

I think this fear of a media circus is just that, paranoia on the part of fans and team FOs.

Sam may choose to talk about it initially, but later on he's gonna do a 'no comment', until the reporters look like idiots for asking him the same questions all the time.


I get it that some of us would rather gay folk NOT be seen or heard, but that's not reality.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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This is pressure he has put on himself and also on the team who cuts him if that is the case. These same people who are celebrating his gayness are the ones who will be crying about him being cut because he was gay, not because he may not have a true NFL position or another thing else performance based. Now, if you think it's worth it and serves a larger cause, fine. There is a downside as well.
Meh. Broad strokes. In your mind, I would probably fall into the category of "people who are celebrating his gayness." With that said, I don't really give a rats ass if he sucks at football and gets cut by whoever drafts him.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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While I agree you have to be sure your locker room can accept him (I don't see that being much of an issue), I don't think it would be as huge of a deal if he ends up getting cut. You're forgetting in your scenario that the team will be first thought of as the team that gave him a chance and drafted an openly gay player. GMs can emphasize that he's a great guy, courageous and whatnot, but ultimately the decision was made on the field.
No, that team would be raked over the coals for cutting him by some and viewed as trying to benefit from his publicity.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 02-10-2014, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Meh. Broad strokes. In your mind, I would probably fall into the category of "people who are celebrating his gayness." With that said, I don't really give a rats ass if he sucks at football and gets cut by whoever drafts him.
Me neither, but look what is happening so far. Tell me I am wrong about this (the reaction and pending circus)
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 02-10-2014, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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No, that team would be raked over the coals for cutting him by some and viewed as trying to benefit from his publicity.
If Sam is cut over lack of performance, there won't be any outcry from football fans or the sports media.

Any non sports media reporter who does a minimum of research will know whether or not Sam deserved to make an NFL roster or not.

Gay rights activists believe it or not don't have it high on their priority list to integrate the NFL.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Well, because it's not bigotry. Do you know what bigotry is? I don't fear him, I don't hate him, and yes, I would tolerate him if I had to. I don't wish him any ill will and I would not cause him any harm. But I believe what he is doing is not only wrong, but repulsive to me. And before you say it's not my business what he does, I agree with you. But he thought it was important that I know that.
You don't fear him, but you'd avoid him if he was in an NFL dressing room. Okay then. And no, he didn't find it important that you knew. Feeling as though you have to hide the fact that you're gay probably isn't a very pleasant thing. But you want him to...Because you not being repulsed is more important than Sam being honest with people and not having to hide a massive secret from millions of people. Just admit you're bigotry please.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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No, that team would be raked over the coals for cutting him by some and viewed as trying to benefit from his publicity.
If he was drafted in the 6th round, then came out as gay before training camp, and was then cut just before the regular season, I would agree with you on the reaction.

The reason that won't happen is because he's coming out now and therefore they know before making the decision to draft him. If he goes undrafted, this stuff will be shouted, but not if he is drafted. The only way it becomes a circus is if news comes out that coaches/players didn't want him because of his sexuality.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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[quote=FUNBUNCHER;3565482]Michael Sam and his agent decided to come out about his orientation because NFL GMs already knew he came out to his teammates at Mizzou, and to prevent his draft stock from taking a hit about unspoken 'character concerns' Sam decided to get in front of the story and have it all be out in the open.

Now teams are forced to evaluate Michael Sam as a football player and not secretly give him a lower grade as a prospect because he's gay.

I understand all that.

I don't know how anyone can't see this as a major sports event.
It's literally never happened before.

It's not a sports event!
You didn't mean to say that, did you?


Historically I don't know if there's ever been a more homophobic workplace than the NFL.

Also a beat reporter can only ask someone 'what's it like to be a gay NFL player?' before the question gets old.

I think this fear of a media circus is just that, paranoia on the part of fans and team FOs.

Really? Come on. Mediot nonsense is at an all time high. Ever since Brett Farve, ESPN has created ticker topics for a single individual. It will be a circus.

Sam may choose to talk about it initially, but later on he's gonna do a 'no comment', until the reporters look like idiots for asking him the same questions all the time.

Well he can start now. Again, what else is there to say without getting into the details of his personal life?

I get it that some of us would rather gay folk NOT be seen or heard, but that's not reality.

Not really, I just don't like the in your face sensationalism that is becoming common place. There is nothing to celebrate.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 02-10-2014, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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One thing that goes overlooked in these conversations is the fact that: 1. People who do well on teams generally stick up for their teammates, 2. for every player who talks trash to him for being cool, another player is going to be ready to curb stomp the guy who talked trash to him.

Nothing makes you like somebody faster than being on their team, and not much makes you hate somebody faster than them being a dick to your boy.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Michael Sam and his agent decided to come out about his orientation because NFL GMs already knew he came out to his teammates at Mizzou, and to prevent his draft stock from taking a hit about unspoken 'character concerns' Sam decided to get in front of the story and have it all be out in the open.

Now teams are forced to evaluate Michael Sam as a football player and not secretly give him a lower grade as a prospect because he's gay.

I don't know how anyone can't see this as a major sports event.
It's literally never happened before.

Historically I don't know if there's ever been a more homophobic workplace than the NFL.

Also a beat reporter can only ask someone 'what's it like to be a gay NFL player?' before the question gets old.

I think this fear of a media circus is just that, paranoia on the part of fans and team FOs.

Sam may choose to talk about it initially, but later on he's gonna do a 'no comment', until the reporters look like idiots for asking him the same questions all the time.


I get it that some of us would rather gay folk NOT be seen or heard, but that's not reality.
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Originally Posted by badgerbacker View Post
If he was drafted in the 6th round, then came out as gay before training camp, and was then cut just before the regular season, I would agree with you on the reaction.

The reason that won't happen is because he's coming out now and therefore they know before making the decision to draft him. If he goes undrafted, this stuff will be shouted, but not if he is drafted. The only way it becomes a circus is if news comes out that coaches/players didn't want him because of his sexuality.
Alright, that is plausible. We will see.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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One thing that goes overlooked in these conversations is the fact that: 1. People who do well on teams generally stick up for their teammates, 2. for every player who talks trash to him for being cool, another player is going to be ready to curb stomp the guy who talked trash to him.

Nothing makes you like somebody faster than being on their team, and not much makes you hate somebody faster than them being a dick to your boy.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Change the text color of your responses Bolt.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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You don't fear him, but you'd avoid him if he was in an NFL dressing room. Okay then. And no, he didn't find it important that you knew. Feeling as though you have to hide the fact that you're gay probably isn't a very pleasant thing. But you want him to...Because you not being repulsed is more important than Sam being honest with people and not having to hide a massive secret from millions of people. Just admit you're bigotry please.
No, I would not want to be around him naked in a lockeroom because I DO now know that he is gay. A big part of the reason grown men can share shower space fairly comfortably is BECAUSE the know that there are among members of the same sexual orientation, therefore, there is no feeling of repulsion. I can't believe I actually have to explain this. Something tells me I don't.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Change the text color of your responses Bolt.
Change it to what and why?
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Change it to what and why?
Something other than red.

Because red is reserved for mods.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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Something other than red.

Because red is reserved for mods.
Um.......okay. I would think people would know I am not a mod after this.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 02-10-2014, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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only enjex gets to use red.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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That thread title...wow... "admits"

Poor choice of words.
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