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Old 02-11-2014, 08:28 AM    (permalink
DeathbyStat
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Default Media Darling QB?

In recent years we've had a media darling QB. A player that the media has rightly or wrongly talked up ad nausea. Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, Bret Hoyer come to mind. Who will it be this year?

Pre senior bowl I would have said AJ McCarron, but he seems to have some negative buzz at the moment.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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If I had to guess, I'd say Jimmy Garappolo.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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I'd say Derek Carr is going to be the most talked up this year. He's going to look great at the combine and run a faster 40 than most people expect. Leading up to the draft everyone is going to talk about how great his offseason was and the numbers he put up this season. They'll also mention his work ethic and point out that he stayed after practice at the Senior Bowl. Finally there will be countless mentions of his brother and whether or not that will effect how NFL personnel perceive him. Garoppolo will also be up there though.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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fredder, where would you draft Carr (assuming your'e a team needing a QB, obviously)? I can't like him before the 2nd RD.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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Johnny Manziel
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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fredder, where would you draft Carr (assuming your'e a team needing a QB, obviously)? I can't like him before the 2nd RD.
I just realized that my post sounded like I was praising Carr. I was just saying that the media is going to ignore the game tape that we've all watched and just focus on Carr's offseason. I said after his terrible bowl game that Carr's image was going to get built back up this offseason because he has excellent physical tools and looks impressive when he's not facing a pass rush.

Personally I would hope to be able to pick him in the 20s but I don't think he's going to last that long. I feel the same way about Bortles where I don't have a top 10 grade on him but that's where he's going to go. I have him as my #4 QB and rated slightly behind Bortles. I'd say that I'm not as down on him as most people are but I agree about the criticisms.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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Manziel by far.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Manziel, Johnathan.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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definitely manziel lol
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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I don't think he meant "Which QB will be talked about the most?". That would obviously be Manziel. I think he meant "Which QB will the media hype up the most and generally say good things about relative to their draft stock?". Basically the guy who every media draft analysts keeps saying has all of these positive attributes, they rarely mention his flaws, but then they say "He's a good solid 2nd round pick". They hype him up like a top QB prospect but his position on their board doesn't reflect that. I feel like Manziel and Bridgewater are going to be the opposite and analysts are going to bring up any little concern they can think of but then still rate them as top 5 picks.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, I think this thread is dumb and another way of whining about QBs being the NFL's glamour position.

Here's one that comes to mind btw:
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Most talked about - Manziel

Hype train - Bortles

Over analyzed - Bridgewater

Diamond in the rough - Jimmy G
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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I still don't know what people see in Jimmy Garoppolo, so that's the name I'll throw out. Seems like a lot of people want to be the one's who "always knew he'd be good"; I really don't see anything to get excited about. What's he got on Matt Barkley?
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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Manziel x10000000000000..
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
I still don't know what people see in Jimmy Garoppolo, so that's the name I'll throw out. Seems like a lot of people want to be the one's who "always knew he'd be good"; I really don't see anything to get excited about. What's he got on Matt Barkley?
Garoppolo looked comparatively good at the Senior Bowl. And by that I mean he looked the least bad.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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I still don't know what people see in Jimmy Garoppolo, so that's the name I'll throw out. Seems like a lot of people want to be the one's who "always knew he'd be good"; I really don't see anything to get excited about. What's he got on Matt Barkley?
This coming from one of the guys trying to hype up Brett Smith? To answer your question though Garoppolo has enough size for the position, NFL caliber arm strength, the faster release in this draft, and generally good accuracy. His touch on deep balls is particularly impressive. He still needs to work on his mechanics and it's not clear if he can adjust to the speed of the NFL. I still don't think anybody has said he should be in the 1st round picture but he has NFL caliber tools so he's worth taking in the 2nd or later.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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This coming from one of the guys trying to hype up Brett Smith?
Yup. You're off to a good start.

Quote:
To answer your question though Garoppolo has enough size for the position, NFL caliber arm strength,
So, nothing to separate him from a solid 10 or 15 prospects so far...

Quote:
the faster release in this draft,
Nope. That's Brett Smith.

Quote:
and generally good accuracy.
And you can say that about a lot of players.

Quote:
His touch on deep balls is particularly impressive.
One notable trait so far. A guy you think can be an NFL starter needs to be able to do something special. So, thus far you're hanging your hat on his deep touch.

Quote:
He still needs to work on his mechanics and it's not clear if he can adjust to the speed of the NFL.
But.... you don't like Brett Smith?

Quote:
I still don't think anybody has said he should be in the 1st round picture but he has NFL caliber tools so he's worth taking in the 2nd or later.
I've certainly seen people say he could sneak into the first round. For me, I see the tools. I see the body type and the arm and think, "Alright, he's got some NFL tools." But the way he plays just looks ordinary to me. He's not exciting. Maybe that's fine, but to me he's like an Andy Dalton, Matt Barkley kind of prospect; a good player with "enough" of everything and also has some really nice throws in his highlight reel. But I just don't see anything about his game that makes me think he can put the team on his back, so to speak. I think he could be a solid player, sure, but I wouldn't take him in the second. For that I have to see something special, something more than "touch" to separate him.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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Yup. You're off to a good start.



So, nothing to separate him from a solid 10 or 15 prospects so far...



Nope. That's Brett Smith.



And you can say that about a lot of players.



One notable trait so far. A guy you think can be an NFL starter needs to be able to do something special. So, thus far you're hanging your hat on his deep touch.



But.... you don't like Brett Smith?



I've certainly seen people say he could sneak into the first round. For me, I see the tools. I see the body type and the arm and think, "Alright, he's got some NFL tools." But the way he plays just looks ordinary to me. He's not exciting. Maybe that's fine, but to me he's like an Andy Dalton, Matt Barkley kind of prospect; a good player with "enough" of everything and also has some really nice throws in his highlight reel. But I just don't see anything about his game that makes me think he can put the team on his back, so to speak. I think he could be a solid player, sure, but I wouldn't take him in the second. For that I have to see something special, something more than "touch" to separate him.
So he's like an Andy Dalton but you wouldn't take him in the 2nd round? Do you think the average 2nd round QB prospect is better than Andy Dalton? At worst his release is just as quick as Brett Smith but personally I think it's faster. Yes his mechanics are sloppy at times but he's not a complete mess like Smith at this point. I don't know why you expect to find great QB prospects in the 2nd round. For the record I have him rated similarly to McCarron and behind Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, Carr, and Mettenberger.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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This coming from one of the guys trying to hype up Brett Smith? To answer your question though Garoppolo has enough size for the position, NFL caliber arm strength, the faster release in this draft, and generally good accuracy. His touch on deep balls is particularly impressive. He still needs to work on his mechanics and it's not clear if he can adjust to the speed of the NFL. I still don't think anybody has said he should be in the 1st round picture but he has NFL caliber tools so he's worth taking in the 2nd or later.
I agree, except, he couldn't sustain a good start at the Senior Bowl. I still think he could surprise as a pro, the tools are there except for the hand size which could limit his potential. His release speed is very impressive.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:36 AM    (permalink
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So he's like an Andy Dalton but you wouldn't take him in the 2nd round? Do you think the average 2nd round QB prospect is better than Andy Dalton? At worst his release is just as quick as Brett Smith but personally I think it's faster. Yes his mechanics are sloppy at times but he's not a complete mess like Smith at this point. I don't know why you expect to find great QB prospects in the 2nd round. For the record I have him rated similarly to McCarron and behind Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, Carr, and Mettenberger.
Sorry, I'm speaking from the perspective of my personal draft philosophy without explaining it. The way I see it, I basically want a first round guy - in this draft, I see Manziel, Bortles and Bridgewater as prospects who profile, to me, as obvious starters - and if I can't have one of those, I want to take a guy not in the second, but in the middle rounds, who to me, has some special trait, and I think of them as a gamble or a developmental prospect. So if I'm looking for a QB going into this draft, but didn't have a chance on one of the big three, I'd be stocking on on other positions through the first three rounds, and then (of course, to some degree depending who's on the board), I'm thinking, "Alright... is Mettenberger here? (tough pocket presence, huge arm, can drive the ball to the sideline accurately, but has some warts)... Is Brett Smith here? (looks almost ridiculous at times, but has the "gamer" mentality if I've ever seen it, has really good athleticism and elusiveness to both buy time to throw and pick up first downs, pressure doesn't phase him)... Or maybe Garoppolo or McCarron? (guys who look solid and don't seem to have major flaws, but no huge pluses, either)."

So, after the highly sought-after prospect are gone, I'm not going to just take the next-best one in the second - I'm going to add players I know will contribute positively to my team while having an eye out for quarterbacks I think have potential but are going to go later. This is also kind of a unique year for me, in that I think there's a strong group at the top, and then several guys with exemplary traits, (Mettenberger and Smith, primarily for me), who could be around later. I wouldn't have drafted Dalton in the second, but I don't want to argue with people who would. Too many Kevin Kolbs and John Becks in the world who've got these good college resumes and no glaring weaknesses who simply aren't that effective. So I'm content to let other teams draft those players and pick Brett Smith at the top of the 4th and let him run around and do his thing, and at that slot I haven't cost myself a key player at another position if he doesn't pan out. If Garoppolo is one of those guys still available in the 4th, I think that's a good pick, but since he's clearly a step down from the "franchises," I'd rather pick from other positions over the first two days.
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:33 AM    (permalink
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I still don't know what people see in Jimmy Garoppolo, so that's the name I'll throw out. Seems like a lot of people want to be the one's who "always knew he'd be good"; I really don't see anything to get excited about. What's he got on Matt Barkley?
Spot on - indeed Barkley was a little more polished.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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I really don't see anything to get excited about. What's he got on Matt Barkley?
Considerably better college coaching.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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I agree with Manziel. It just seems like they are trying there best to make him be a top five pick.

I don't necessarily dislike him, but I see him as a 'trade back up into the end of the first" kind of guy.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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I'll go with the QB that has no business in the top 5 who currently is getting that kind of hype...

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