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Old 02-18-2014, 07:40 AM    (permalink
E_Bird
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
That's what I thought, too, when I first saw the rankings, but then i watched some more of Hyde's tape and there is some awfully impressive stuff in there. He uses his power very well, taking good angles between defenders and bouncing off of contact. I think he also has some real speed. Don't be surprised if he runs in the 4.4s this weekend. I like his effort and he has a good feel for the bodies around him. I think he deserves to be over Hill, who I also think is a first-round type talent. We're just not used to seeing two big backs like them who run with a lot of power and legitimate breakawy speed in the same draft. I think they're both reasonable candidates to be picked in the first by someone like Miami.
Definitely not knocking Hyde. But I think you can see pretty clearly that he has some built in advantages. When D's scheme to stop the Ohio State running game, they're as worried about Miller as they are Hyde. So on those read/option looks, Hyde he's facing fewer defenders. Also, Big 10 D's (in general) aren't SEC D's. When Hill did play a Big 10 D, he ran for 216 yards behind a Freshman QB. I like Hyde in the late-1st/early-2nd range. He runs with power, and he has really good feet for his size. I don't see extraordinary feet (like with Hill) or the same burst as Hill. TBH, I don't see them as being close, but I have Hyde leading the 2nd tier of RB's (with Seastrunk, Carey, and Mason rounding out the top 5).
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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Hyde ran for 118 yards at 6.6 a pop against the #1 defense in the nation. Just saying.

If my team were looking for a nasty physical power back who can get extra yards in the second level I would kill to get Hyde in this draft, I know he's gonna be a beast as a pro.

There is no clear cut #1 back in this class, a bunch of 2nd round type guys like last year, though not as bad as last year's group.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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Hyde ran for 118 yards at 6.6 a pop against the #1 defense in the nation. Just saying.

If my team were looking for a nasty physical power back who can get extra yards in the second level I would kill to get Hyde in this draft, I know he's gonna be a beast as a pro.

There is no clear cut #1 back in this class, a bunch of 2nd round type guys like last year, though not as bad as last year's group.
Seastrunk?
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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What about him?
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Going into this season, Cam Cameron had to convince Hill to stop bouncing the ball outside. His combination of quickness and burst allowed him to get by (in fact, do pretty well) as a guy who was always looking to break contain - rather than taking the first three yards. His ability to cutback, accelerate, and run through arm tackles (or over someone) make him extremely difficult to slow. The two comparisons I like best are Larry Johnson and a more powerful, faster Arian Foster.

At the 7:35 mark against Mississippi State, he has a very small hole and a LB waiting in that hole. He shakes the LB on the cutback and runs through his arm tackle, and then shakes/sheds the safety coming to help. And after that, no one gets close. Physical running backs (who don't leave yards on the field), who have great feet and HR ability don't grow on trees. If you take away the power, the feet, or the HR ability, he's not averaging 6.9 YPC on an SEC team.

I'd definitely encourage you to give him another look. He's a fun guy to watch.
What's up with the category "linebackers?"
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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What about him?
Why the big fall? Is it the injury? This guy has game changing speed and also is a tough inside runner. Behind Williams? I don't know....
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Why the big fall? Is it the injury? This guy has game changing speed and also is a tough inside runner. Behind Williams? I don't know....
Going to guess it's because of injury and because of the MAC level defenses he was running against.

Some really big games in a potent offensive system vs suspect defenses = Question marks.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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Larry Johnson is a good comparison for Hill, although Johnson was better as an amateur.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Larry Johnson is a good comparison for Hill, although Johnson was better as an amateur.
Plus he didn't have a history of rape and assault.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Why the big fall? Is it the injury? This guy has game changing speed and also is a tough inside runner. Behind Williams? I don't know....
Seastrunk is the most frustrating prospect I've watched in this draft. His burst is absurd and probably the best I've seen from a RB since Chris Johnson. When he sees daylight it seems like it takes him a single stride to reach his top speed, which is faster than pretty much anyone else on the field. When you combine that with his size it's easy to fall in love with him as a prospect.

The frustrating part is that he very rarely runs like a guy his size should. He goes down on first contact far too often. He seems able to find his assignment in pass protection but he doesn't seem able to slow rushers down as much as you'd like for a guy his size. It'll be interesting to see if he can show skills as a receiver given the fact that he didn't have any receptions this season, mostly due to what he was asked to do in the Baylor offense.

I definitely would have Seastrunk in my top 5 RBs and I could easily see him being the best back from this class. However, it's just as likely that he becomes the next David Wilson and struggles to establish himself as a true feature back.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Seastrunk is the most frustrating prospect I've watched in this draft. His burst is absurd and probably the best I've seen from a RB since Chris Johnson. When he sees daylight it seems like it takes him a single stride to reach his top speed, which is faster than pretty much anyone else on the field. When you combine that with his size it's easy to fall in love with him as a prospect.

The frustrating part is that he very rarely runs like a guy his size should. He goes down on first contact far too often. He seems able to find his assignment in pass protection but he doesn't seem able to slow rushers down as much as you'd like for a guy his size. It'll be interesting to see if he can show skills as a receiver given the fact that he didn't have any receptions this season, mostly due to what he was asked to do in the Baylor offense.

I definitely would have Seastrunk in my top 5 RBs and I could easily see him being the best back from this class. However, it's just as likely that he becomes the next David Wilson and struggles to establish himself as a true feature back.
A++ insight.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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Going into this season, Cam Cameron had to convince Hill to stop bouncing the ball outside. His combination of quickness and burst allowed him to get by (in fact, do pretty well) as a guy who was always looking to break contain - rather than taking the first three yards. His ability to cutback, accelerate, and run through arm tackles (or over someone) make him extremely difficult to slow. The two comparisons I like best are Larry Johnson and a more powerful, faster Arian Foster.

At the 7:35 mark against Mississippi State, he has a very small hole and a LB waiting in that hole. He shakes the LB on the cutback and runs through his arm tackle, and then shakes/sheds the safety coming to help. And after that, no one gets close. Physical running backs (who don't leave yards on the field), who have great feet and HR ability don't grow on trees. If you take away the power, the feet, or the HR ability, he's not averaging 6.9 YPC on an SEC team.

I'd definitely encourage you to give him another look. He's a fun guy to watch.
Thanks, went back and looked. Better than I thought. Deceptive speed and good feet for a big, power guy. But still, LJ or Foster is too rich. To me, he's much closer to a LaGarrette Blount, Michael Bush, or Al Morris. Then there's the off field baggage.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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The thing that stood out to me is that neither of my top 2 RBs are in Mayock's top 10. I like Carey and Seastrunk (in that order) better than the backs on his list. And I think Mason is better than everyone else in his top 5. But I can buy Hill and Hyde over him.

I'm also glad Fuller is getting the love.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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Big picture the QBs look average to slightly above. Guards and Centers are down this year. Receivers probably the deepest position.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Seastrunk is the most frustrating prospect I've watched in this draft. His burst is absurd and probably the best I've seen from a RB since Chris Johnson. When he sees daylight it seems like it takes him a single stride to reach his top speed, which is faster than pretty much anyone else on the field. When you combine that with his size it's easy to fall in love with him as a prospect.

The frustrating part is that he very rarely runs like a guy his size should. He goes down on first contact far too often. He seems able to find his assignment in pass protection but he doesn't seem able to slow rushers down as much as you'd like for a guy his size. It'll be interesting to see if he can show skills as a receiver given the fact that he didn't have any receptions this season, mostly due to what he was asked to do in the Baylor offense.

I definitely would have Seastrunk in my top 5 RBs and I could easily see him being the best back from this class. However, it's just as likely that he becomes the next David Wilson and struggles to establish himself as a true feature back.
I agree he is frustrating to evaluate. See, we disagree somewhat on him going down on first contact. I have see him churn out yards inside that I didn't think he could, although he is by no means a power runner. What I like about him is he has that dog attitude. He is not satisfied with any run that does not result in a TD. Also, you have to consider the fact that his carries were inconsistent based on the system he was in. It seems that whene he got multiple carries for stretches, he was up to the task, but what that because the defense couldn't afford to key on him? And then there is the injury.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 02-18-2014, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Big picture the QBs look average to slightly above. Guards and Centers are down this year. Receivers probably the deepest position.
Really? I think that the interior blockers are very good. Just because there aren't mulitiple first round OGs like last year doesn't mean it's a down year for OGs. And as far as C, I'd say it's and above average year with the emergence of the USC kid.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Really? I think that the interior blockers are very good. Just because there aren't mulitiple first round OGs like last year doesn't mean it's a down year for OGs. And as far as C, I'd say it's and above average year with the emergence of the USC kid.

Cyril Richardson looked terribly overrated to me at the Senior Bowl week. I'd actually have Steen from Alabama near the top of that list. Guards nowadays are a lot of converted tackles so there could be some depth there.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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I agree he is frustrating to evaluate. See, we disagree somewhat on him going down on first contact. I have see him churn out yards inside that I didn't think he could, although he is by no means a power runner. What I like about him is he has that dog attitude. He is not satisfied with any run that does not result in a TD. Also, you have to consider the fact that his carries were inconsistent based on the system he was in. It seems that whene he got multiple carries for stretches, he was up to the task, but what that because the defense couldn't afford to key on him? And then there is the injury.
I agree that at times he shows the ability to break tackles. That's what's so frustrating about him. Sometimes you see him break a few arm tackles, hit another gear, and break away from the defense. Other times he goes down from a guy barely getting an arm on him. You might be right about his inconsistent carries playing a part though.

Either way he's incredibly fun to watch. It's amazing how often he just outruns the defense when it seems like they have the angle on him. Also there's his 76-yard Td run where he injures his leg around midfield, I believe he pulled his hamstring, and still outruns the defenders to the endzone. It'll be interesting to see where people rank him after they see him work out.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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I don't get the Marcus Martin love of late. He's alright. But that's the same for every center in this class. A whole lot of....alright.
His ND game was really good but the Stanford game was pretty bad.
He looks like a different player when on the double team.

Maybe it's the upside factor since he hasn't been at C long and all the other guys are so....alright...
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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I don't get the Marcus Martin love of late. He's alright. But that's the same for every center in this class. A whole lot of....alright.
His ND game was really good but the Stanford game was pretty bad.
He looks like a different player when on the double team.

Maybe it's the upside factor since he hasn't been at C long and all the other guys are so....alright...
Swanson and Stork look like the best of that group and probably late second to third round at that.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Swanson and Stork look like the best of that group and probably late second to third round at that.
I wouldn't touch Stork before the 4th or 5th at best.
This years centers are really just awful tbh.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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The interior blockers this year are well below average. I don't know what you guys are talking about. At least 1 guard goes in round 1 usually and there are barely 2 worth taking in the first two rounds.

As far as centers go, lol. It's not good. Maybe you guys think there is a lot of good value in rounds 3-5, but if teams are drafting interior OL in round 1 and 2, they're going to regret it this year. There are FAR more talented positions in the draft this year.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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The interior blockers this year are well below average. I don't know what you guys are talking about. At least 1 guard goes in round 1 usually and there are barely 2 worth taking in the first two rounds.

As far as centers go, lol. It's not good. Maybe you guys think there is a lot of good value in rounds 3-5, but if teams are drafting interior OL in round 1 and 2, they're going to regret it this year. There are FAR more talented positions in the draft this year.
Yeah. I have to agree with all this. It is the year of meh on the inside. The best interior player is Martin who will likely be an OT his first year.

After that it is all kinda just meh.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Agreed on the weakness of the interior OL in this class. The OGs looked promising early on but Richardson being exposed was a big hit to the position. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on scouting Centers but it does seem like the position is pretty meh this year. A few decent guys but nobody who looks like a future Pro Bowler at the position. There are things to like about Marcus Martin but he hasn't really shown the recognition skills needed to play the position in the NFL. If you ask him to block the guy in front of him he can excel at it (anchoring against Louis Nix is very impressive and he even single blocked him at times in the run game) but at times he looked a little lost and missed his assignment on stunts. He's similar to Cyril Richardson in that regard but it's much more troublesome when you're talking about the Center position. He also has the athleticism to get to the 2nd level but it seems like he struggles to engage quicker defenders as he whiffed far too many blocks IMO.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Cyril Richardson looked terribly overrated to me at the Senior Bowl week. I'd actually have Steen from Alabama near the top of that list. Guards nowadays are a lot of converted tackles so there could be some depth there.
I agree on Cyril, he looked awful in the Senior Bowl practices, couldn't handle speed or quickness.

I also agree that a lot of OT's are asked to make the switch to OG at the next level disguising the strength of the position.
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