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Old 03-09-2014, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Is there any way to get a reliable list of teams that attended each pro day? I know last year, there was a guy on Twitter that I followed, but that was literally all he did, so I unfollowed him. But now I can't remember who he was or if he still has that info.
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by brasho View Post
Yes, but don't you think his itty bitty arms and tiny frame would be a huge detriment in the 3-4 where he would have to take on guards far more frequently?

I like Borland, but as no more than a 3rd round pick. If you swing and miss on Borland in the first or second, people will look back and say, "He's short, he's slow, he's got short little arms, how could you waste a high pick on him?"

He's a good player, but because of his physical limitations (perceived or real) he's going to get seriously knocked down boards. I root for a guy like Borland, but I really don't want my team to have to rely on him...it's a huge jump between the Big 10 and the NFL (it's a huge jump from any conference).
I think you got me wrong, I don't think he goes before round 4 or even 5, he doesn't have the speed to play in a 4-3 and his physical limitations aren't great for a 3-4 either although there are 3-4 teams who use their DLmen to protect their LB's and in that scheme he might be fine because he is protected from having to defend against the OL and is free to just make the tackle. That kind of 3-4 team could take a shot in round 4. with a small chance for round 3.
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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Borland reminds me of Zach Thomas. Limited size and athletic ability but will have a really good NFL career. Everything about him probably says 3rd or 4th round pick, especially in this draft, but he'll far exceed a lot of guys taken before him.
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Borland reminds me of Zach Thomas. Limited size and athletic ability but will have a really good NFL career. Everything about him probably says 3rd or 4th round pick, especially in this draft, but he'll far exceed a lot of guys taken before him.
He certainly has that potential although I think Thomas was a little faster but don't quote my memory. The trouble always is that the Thomas' of this world are few and far between, so if your projecting him to be that good, your challenging the odds. However, it will just take one GM or HC to fall in love to get him into round 3 but round 4 sounds more likely.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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I believe Zach Thomas ran in the 4.6's, but I can't find any reputable source to verify that. I'd rather have Bullough than Borland - though Bullough's best role might be as a thumper in a 3-4.
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Old 03-09-2014, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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He certainly has that potential although I think Thomas was a little faster but don't quote my memory. The trouble always is that the Thomas' of this world are few and far between, so if your projecting him to be that good, your challenging the odds. However, it will just take one GM or HC to fall in love to get him into round 3 but round 4 sounds more likely.
Couldn't find a 40 time on Thomas but it's more about lateral quickness and reading the plays. Zach was really good at that.

The Thomas comparison for Borland may be too easy because they're both white but i see a lot of similarities. Round 3 doesn't seem too far fetched at all.
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Old 03-09-2014, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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I believe Zach Thomas ran in the 4.6's, but I can't find any reputable source to verify that. I'd rather have Bullough than Borland - though Bullough's best role might be as a thumper in a 3-4.
I recall Zach Thomas running in the 4.6s too. He made a hell of a lot of pursuit plays for the Dolphins where he flat out beat blockers to the ballcarrier with speed.

I don't see Borland having nearly the range of Zach Thomas.
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Old 03-09-2014, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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I recall Zach Thomas running in the 4.6s too. He made a hell of a lot of pursuit plays for the Dolphins where he flat out beat blockers to the ballcarrier with speed.

I don't see Borland having nearly the range of Zach Thomas.
Neither do I but sometimes sheer determination and great instincts will enable a guy to be a starter even if his measurables fall short and if anybody can do it, Borland can. Round 3/4/ or 5 but could still be a starter especially in a 3-4 where his speed won't be a crucial factor.
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Old 03-09-2014, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Neither do I but sometimes sheer determination and great instincts will enable a guy to be a starter even if his measurables fall short and if anybody can do it, Borland can. Round 3/4/ or 5 but could still be a starter especially in a 3-4 where his speed won't be a crucial factor.
I agree. Sometimes all the parts and measurables fit together for a player on the football field, despite being less than ideal in most categories.

Borland's 35 inch vert tells me he's an explosive player and should have enough short area quickness combined with his overall instincts to make plays against the run in the NFL.

But if you ask Borland to cover more than 10-15 yards downfield, I don't think he can do that with any consistency because of his lack of height, arm length and poor straightline speed.
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Old 03-09-2014, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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I agree. Sometimes all the parts and measurables fit together for a player on the football field, despite being less than ideal in most categories.

Borland's 35 inch vert tells me he's an explosive player and should have enough short area quickness combined with his overall instincts to make plays against the run in the NFL.

But if you ask Borland to cover more than 10-15 yards downfield, I don't think he can do that with any consistency because of his lack of height, arm length and poor straightline speed.
He certainly won't be on the field for 3rd down plays, he's strictly a 2 down player but the NFL uses so much substitution these days, maybe it won't hurt his draft stock too much.
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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I'm laughing my ass off at all the "electronic" times that Mora is tweeting out that his guys are running. There is no ******* way.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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I'm laughing my ass off at all the "electronic" times that Mora is tweeting out that his guys are running. There is no ******* way.
UCLA HC Mora??

Curious about what some of those times are, particularly Barr and Shaq Evans.
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Barr : 4.44
Evans : 4.32

apparently.
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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For every Zach Thomas, there's an H.B. Blades!
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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Barr : 4.44
Evans : 4.32

apparently.
Whoosh!!

Someone better remind Mora that when healthy players have a full two-tenths of second difference between their Indy times and campus times, people will rightly assume you're testing guys in the 35 yard dash and not the 40.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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Whoosh!!

Someone better remind Mora that when healthy players have a full two-tenths of second difference between their Indy times and campus times, people will rightly assume you're testing guys in the 35 yard dash and not the 40.
It usually just proves to pro scouts that UCLA has an extremely fast track. I'm sure they are already aware of it and will makes the necessary additions.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:40 AM    (permalink
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It usually just proves to pro scouts that UCLA has an extremely fast track. I'm sure they are already aware of it and will makes the necessary additions.
Around a tenth of second to .15 is a fast timer/track is a venue error.

Two tenths of second difference from the combine is generally more than just a timing error.

Fast track is an expression people throw around, but guys usually run faster at their colleges because sometimes they get to wear cleats on short turf, or the timer if they run on a track has a 'slow' thumb at the beginning, or a fast thumb at the end of the 40.
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Around a tenth of second to .15 is a fast timer/track is a venue error.

Two tenths of second difference from the combine is generally more than just a timing error.

Fast track is an expression people throw around, but guys usually run faster at their colleges because sometimes they get to wear cleats on short turf, or the timer if they run on a track has a 'slow' thumb at the beginning, or a fast thumb at the end of the 40.
A lot of tracks at colleges are made of different surfaces and there can be quite a difference in their times, then if the track is outside you have wind factors. Most times reported are hand times by the pros themselves and you can usually add a fair amount to match up with Combine official times as we have all seen at the Combine.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 20 s
Alabama T Cyrus Kouandjio meeting with teams and performing position drills at his school's Pro Day. Knee not an issue there

Apparently he checked out medically
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 20 s
Alabama T Cyrus Kouandjio meeting with teams and performing position drills at his school's Pro Day. Knee not an issue there

Apparently he checked out medically
Great to hear, I hate anybody losing a career because of injuries.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Wootylicous View Post
Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 20 s
Alabama T Cyrus Kouandjio meeting with teams and performing position drills at his school's Pro Day. Knee not an issue there

Apparently he checked out medically
Great to hear, I hate anybody losing a career because of injuries.

Sorry, double post.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Great to hear, I hate anybody losing a career because of injuries.
Sounds like the Combine medical staff was being very cautious this year. Dee Ford wasn't allowed to work out because he had a procedure on his back three years ago. In those three years since he's played a lot of football. Other doctors reviewed his x-rays and said there was no issue.
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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A lot of tracks at colleges are made of different surfaces and there can be quite a difference in their times, then if the track is outside you have wind factors. Most times reported are hand times by the pros themselves and you can usually add a fair amount to match up with Combine official times as we have all seen at the Combine.
what I don't get is how nearly everyone gets .05 or so (at least) added to their unofficial times, but then you get certain really fast guys (say, Dri Archer) who run fast, and then their official times are actually lower. How does that happen? Frankly, I just don't pay attention to the official times. I pay attention to how the guys look when they're running and the hand-times. I have a feeling the official times go off of some funky technicality which determines when the runner has "really" started, when the hand-timers are just timing from when it looks like he's started running til he crosses the line. You're never starting from a true standstill in football, anyways. The 40 is a track event with football relevance, but it's simply not, in itself, a football skill. Fast guys time fast, slow guys time slow. But in the middle, I think you just go with the tape if you're trying to figure out if someone can get behind a secondary or break long runs, or catch people from behind or speed rush.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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what I don't get is how nearly everyone gets .05 or so (at least) added to their unofficial times, but then you get certain really fast guys (say, Dri Archer) who run fast, and then their official times are actually lower. How does that happen? Frankly, I just don't pay attention to the official times. I pay attention to how the guys look when they're running and the hand-times. I have a feeling the official times go off of some funky technicality which determines when the runner has "really" started, when the hand-timers are just timing from when it looks like he's started running til he crosses the line. You're never starting from a true standstill in football, anyways. The 40 is a track event with football relevance, but it's simply not, in itself, a football skill. Fast guys time fast, slow guys time slow. But in the middle, I think you just go with the tape if you're trying to figure out if someone can get behind a secondary or break long runs, or catch people from behind or speed rush.
To be frank, I'm pretty sure, most teams rely on hand times and don't give one hoot about official times. Most of the scouts and Director's of Personnel and GM's have been hand timing long before official times were introduced, so they trust their own timing much more than they trust official times.

I think official times are important to the NFL because every draft, they can play up whether or not any record will be broken, they also probably think it helps viewership, because the viewers sit around watching till the official times are posted.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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what I don't get is how nearly everyone gets .05 or so (at least) added to their unofficial times, but then you get certain really fast guys (say, Dri Archer) who run fast, and then their official times are actually lower. How does that happen? Frankly, I just don't pay attention to the official times. I pay attention to how the guys look when they're running and the hand-times. I have a feeling the official times go off of some funky technicality which determines when the runner has "really" started, when the hand-timers are just timing from when it looks like he's started running til he crosses the line. You're never starting from a true standstill in football, anyways. The 40 is a track event with football relevance, but it's simply not, in itself, a football skill. Fast guys time fast, slow guys time slow. But in the middle, I think you just go with the tape if you're trying to figure out if someone can get behind a secondary or break long runs, or catch people from behind or speed rush.
If by tape you mean film, then I disagree, they want to know your 40 yard speed especially if you are a skill player, once they know you are fast enough, then they can go back and review the film to see how you use your speed. College defenses are not pro defenses and the back 4 DB's may lack any kind of real speed, so if a WR is covered by a 4.65 CB, what does beating him on a fly pattern tell you about a receivers speed other than he is faster than a 4.65 CB which he'll never see at the next level.

In fact, all the tests at the Combine are designed to check out an athletes true physical abilities beyond any doubt, but in themselves, it is just a useless #, until they go back and check the film to see just how a prospect uses those physical skills during a game. It is simply removing the type of athlete you are playing again and relying on what they saw at the Combine to now judge your true talents.

Make no mistake about it, the Combine skill tests are taken very seriously by NFL scouts, Director of Personnel and GM's because they know historically, what 98% of NFL did at the Combine and were then successful, and they measure each athlete against that historical perspective, then they go back as I said above, to recheck the film to see exactly how you use those physical abilities. The NFL doesn't spend millions of $$$'s running the Combine just for the entertainment value, they do it because the teams want the information before handing rookies millions of dollars.
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