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Old 05-13-2014, 12:33 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Mallett was never considered a lesser prospect than Ponder/Gabbert/Locker/Dalton either.

Nearly every predraft report before the 2011 draft had Mallett rated a solid 1st rounder.

IMO he's still that guy.
It's hard to look at how those guys are doing considering how highly we regarded some of them.

Also, John McClain reported no more than an hour ago that the Texans will not be trading for Mallett. Which comes as no surprise post draft. Makes me believe more and more that he'll have to go into the right situation when he hits FA. Who says he doesn't stay in NE after all of this anyway?
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Old 05-13-2014, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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It's hard to look at how those guys are doing considering how highly we regarded some of them.

Also, John McClain reported no more than an hour ago that the Texans will not be trading for Mallett. Which comes as no surprise post draft. Makes me believe more and more that he'll have to go into the right situation when he hits FA. Who says he doesn't stay in NE after all of this anyway?
For me, if Houston passes, it becomes a very similar situation where Philbin passed on Flynn for obvious good reasons. Philbin coached Fynn and knew exactly what he was, a career backup QB.

O'Brien coached Mallett and if he passes on Mallett, it speaks volumes to me that Mallett is nothing but a career back up QB.
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Old 05-13-2014, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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It's hard to look at how those guys are doing considering how highly we regarded some of them.

Also, John McClain reported no more than an hour ago that the Texans will not be trading for Mallett. Which comes as no surprise post draft. Makes me believe more and more that he'll have to go into the right situation when he hits FA. Who says he doesn't stay in NE after all of this anyway?
As much as I would love for this to happen BB isn't going to pay to keep 3 QB's. We're stuck with Garappolo unfortunately.
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Old 05-13-2014, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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It's hard to look at how those guys are doing considering how highly we regarded some of them.

Also, John McClain reported no more than an hour ago that the Texans will not be trading for Mallett. Which comes as no surprise post draft. Makes me believe more and more that he'll have to go into the right situation when he hits FA. Who says he doesn't stay in NE after all of this anyway?
Wow, i'd have to label Houston a totally dysfunctional team, since they obviously had no plan on how to get a starting QB. I'd have to rate their draft as a 'L' for lousy. They only have a small window off opportunity before Johnson, Foster and a few other starters, are too old to maintain their high performance levels
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Old 05-13-2014, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I would kick a baby if we keep Mallet having just signed Garappolo. That would make that pick even more useless.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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I would kick a baby if we keep Mallet having just signed Garappolo. That would make that pick even more useless.
Oh trust me I get that, I just prefer Mallet to Garappolo because Mallet has this thing called talent. I usually consider that an important qualifier for my QB's.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Obviously I think he does leave NE, just stirring the pot. I hope the Patriots know for a fact that he's leaving after investing in Jimmy. Which I wouldn't have done. At all.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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For me, if Houston passes, it becomes a very similar situation where Philbin passed on Flynn for obvious good reasons. Philbin coached Fynn and knew exactly what he was, a career backup QB.

O'Brien coached Mallett and if he passes on Mallett, it speaks volumes to me that Mallett is nothing but a career back up QB.
Think whatever you want, but if you seriously believe that Bill O'Brien feels Fitzpatrick/Keenum/Yates/Savage are better options at QB than Mallett, you aren't thinking clearly.

The cost for acquiring any player, a value none of us can know, always is the deciding factor in whether or not a team trades for a player. It's not only a question of talent level.

I'm 100% positive that GB/Detroit/New Orl/Indy/Carolina/Denver/SF/Seattle are perfectly willing to trade their starting QBs. The problem is that the cost of doing so would be devastating for most teams.

Besides O'Brien just drafted a developmental prospect in Savage who has the prototypical tools that O'Brien covets in his QBs.

Unless you still believe O'Brien thinks Savage is a better option at QB than Mallett too.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Mallett would make sense there. He could come in and they could be respectable with that defense for a year or two and then Obrien can make a big pitch for a Mariota or a Hackenberg. You aren't going too far with Ryan Mallett at QB.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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You say the signs were there but I'm just not seeing it. NE drafted another QB with a high pick which indicates to me that they aren't interested in retaining Mallett. Strike one!!!
They know they won't be able to or won't want to afford to sign their backup QB to a contract. He's going to get a good offer from someone else

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O'Brien, the HC from Houston coached Mallett, yet for all the rumors, there isn't much of a sign that he is really pursuing Mallett all that hard. Strike 2
There were lots of teams interested in Mallett. He didn't get traded because the Patriots need him more than they need wanted the offers they were getting. Again, they NEED Mallett in 2014. They weren't interested in trading him at all.

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Mallett was a 3rd round pick with character issues and didn't have much of a senior season. While with NE, he hasn't done a thing to standout in training camp or during the exhibition season, Strike 3
What? This is just completely false, and what do the rumors about his character issues have to do with him now, as a 3-year pro?

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He's been in the league for years yet, nobody is rushing to trade for him. Strike 4
The Patriots have valued Mallett very highly as they've not really known what to expect from Tom Brady year-to-year, and it's not exactly easy to find a backup they have confidence in.

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At this point, you have nothing to substantiate your claims that he is special other than your opinion and speculation. If Houston wanted this guy, they are pretty desperate at the QB position, then I would imagine they would traded for him prior to the draft, instead they waited till the draft was complete and still no trade.

O'Brien cannot be offering a great package for Mallett and they know him best, otherwise NE would have made the trade already and if Houston doesn't want him, after O'Brien coached him, Mallett's value will sink through the floor.
Are you meaning to send a PM to yourself here?

There have been multiple legitimate sources claiming that lots of teams want Mallett, and we have also heard from, Day 1, the Patriots (first-hand) that they aren't interested in trading Mallett.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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So they spent a top pick on a 3rd QB. Evem worse.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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So they spent a top pick on a 3rd QB. Evem worse.
Yes, they spent a late second round pick on a QB who will be the #3 in 2014 and the #2 in 2015. Their reasoning is sound. Even though I wanted them to improve other aspects of the team, it was a good move.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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So they spent a top pick on a 3rd QB. Evem worse.
This. I would rather have mallet as well, and our second round pick back. I really have no idea what is going on with this entire nonsense. Its hard to wrap your head around as it stands.
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Old 05-13-2014, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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This. I would rather have mallet as well, and our second round pick back. I really have no idea what is going on with this entire nonsense. Its hard to wrap your head around as it stands.
It's actually really easy to understand. They don't think they'll be able to afford Mallett as the #2 and they're not sure how much longer Brady will keep playing. They didn't want to **** around with the position and HOPE a guy they like would be around for a pick in 2015, so they made the move now. Makes a lot of sense.

Either Mallett moves on after 2014 or Brady retires and they keep Mallett. Either way, Garappolo is going to be the #2 in 2015.
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Old 05-13-2014, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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Saying that Mallett fills some critical need for them, especially after they drafted another QB, is simply buying into the company line.

You have to be in denial to think Bill wouldn't trade him for the right price. I think he's still holding out hope that some team gets desperate closer to camp, so that if/when he is dealt they HAVE a competent backup in Jimmy G. Obviously they are very high on him. He might flat out look better than Mallett in camp and win the #2 job. That's what happened when Hoyer was a UDFA and beat out O'Connell (I think?).
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Old 05-13-2014, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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If Garoppolo starts the season as Brady's primary backup and Mallett is 3rd team, then I was utterly wrong about everything I said about him.


In that case his ceiling in the NFL is likely a career backup.

But the smarter bet is Garroppolo is seen as insurance once Mallett leaves and a potential bridge QB once Brady retires in 3-4 years.
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Old 05-13-2014, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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It's weird thing to cause there have been QBs with good combine speed who moved their feet like they were in molasses, and that baffled me, but it is what it is and you really see it watching "slow" tom brady and peyton manning move around the pocket as those feet seem to only leave the ground for a moment before planting back down underneath them.
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Old 05-13-2014, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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Saying that Mallett fills some critical need for them, especially after they drafted another QB, is simply buying into the company line.
It's really not. They've done this before with the same exact reasoning (explained later).

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You have to be in denial to think Bill wouldn't trade him for the right price.
Of course he would have traded him for the "right price". But the "right price" was probably a high 2nd or 3rd with a conditional pick attached to the deal.

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He might flat out look better than Mallett in camp and win the #2 job. That's what happened when Hoyer was a UDFA and beat out O'Connell (I think?).
Not impossible that Garappolo beats out Mallett, but highly unlikely. And it is the exact situation to when they drafted O'Connell on MATT CASSEL's last contract year (the one where he won 10 games as a starter and threw for nearly 3700 yards in 15 games). It was also the last time they carried 3 QBs on the roster.
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Old 05-13-2014, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Connecting Mallett to Cassel isn't a good way to argue he isn't a bad QB.
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Old 05-13-2014, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Connecting Mallett to Cassel isn't a good way to argue he isn't a bad QB.
Because I was talking about the QB himself, and not the situation?

Even so, Cassel was very obviously good enough to warrant a starting job and is still a borderline starter in the NFL.

Trying to use Cassel as an argument against Mallett is stupid.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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so... funbuncher, you say "I'm 100% positive that GB/Detroit/New Orl/Indy/Carolina/Denver/SF/Seattle are perfectly willing to trade their starting QBs. The problem is that the cost of doing so would be devastating for most teams."

where are you pulling that info from? no way that rodgers, brees, luck, newton, manning, kaep or wilson get moved... i can't see a scenario where any GM puts so much juice into a trade that sways any of these teams to move on from these guys.
i guess it's one opinion vs. another, but really???
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Yes, they spent a late second round pick on a QB who will be the #3 in 2014 and the #2 in 2015. Their reasoning is sound. Even though I wanted them to improve other aspects of the team, it was a good move.
I cant believe that you actually believe this.
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Also, I can't believe that anybody was fooled into buying Matt Cassel.
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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I cant believe that you actually believe this.
What is there not to believe? They've done this every time they've had a backup with an expiring contract. EVERY ******* TIME. Way to try to use cliches and no evidence. They spent a 3rd on Mallett and a 3rd on O'Connell. This year was a bit more crucial because they also have Tom Brady to worry about.

The Patriots don't give more than rookie contracts to backups.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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It's really not. They've done this before with the same exact reasoning (explained later).



Of course he would have traded him for the "right price". But the "right price" was probably a high 2nd or 3rd with a conditional pick attached to the deal.



Not impossible that Garappolo beats out Mallett, but highly unlikely. And it is the exact situation to when they drafted O'Connell on MATT CASSEL's last contract year (the one where he won 10 games as a starter and threw for nearly 3700 yards in 15 games). It was also the last time they carried 3 QBs on the roster.
I think you're getting pushback because you're implying that the drafting of Garoppolo strengthens the team's belief in Mallett instead of undermining it.

I get what you're saying about their plan for the next two years but I think that's them banking on Tom being back (both figuratively and literally) in 2015. I just don't think Mallett is in their long term plans at all. He just isn't a good fit in that offense. If the plan is for McDaniels to eventually take over for BB, how can he think Mallett can operate in it when his short and medium range accuracy is spotty at best and awful at worst? He's purely an old school throw it downfield off of play action type of passer.
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