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Old 06-07-2014, 02:49 PM    (permalink
Borat
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Still meh. Every team in the league is a few plays away from a better record. Some of their wins that year were a play away from losses just the same.

They have talent that's for sure. QB is not good though and that's more important than any of the factors, including a DC that's been fired many times over.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Gregg Williams was fired multiple times?? Not really, at least as a D-coordinator.

In most cases he left for a better gig. The Saints job is the only one I can think of off the top were he was dismissed as a DC.

The dude is still an animal trainer. You give him this much talent to work with up front and it's hard not to see the Rams being at least a top 5 D.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Still meh. Every team in the league is a few plays away from a better record. Some of their wins that year were a play away from losses just the same.

They have talent that's for sure. QB is not good though and that's more important than any of the factors, including a DC that's been fired many times over.


Sam is plenty good. He was on pace for 30 TDs and 9 INT's before his injury, and that's before the emergence of Stacy and the running game.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Sam is plenty good. He was on pace for 30 TDs and 9 INT's before his injury, and that's before the emergence of Stacy and the running game.
Right. But he DID get injured. And they DID finish 7-8-1 two years ago. The results are what matter. Kaepernick was on pace for 6500 yards at one point. SF was a few plays away from 3 straight NFC titles. All that **** doesn't matter.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Gregg Williams was fired multiple times?? Not really, at least as a D-coordinator.

In most cases he left for a better gig. The Saints job is the only one I can think of off the top were he was dismissed as a DC.

The dude is still an animal trainer. You give him this much talent to work with up front and it's hard not to see the Rams being at least a top 5 D.
Yeah. Fired is the wrong term. He gets around.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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Right. But he DID get injured. And they DID finish 7-8-1 two years ago. The results are what matter. Kaepernick was on pace for 6500 yards at one point. SF was a few plays away from 3 straight NFC titles. All that **** doesn't matter.

I think it's fair to assume if a starting QB is healthy for most the season, his presence will positively impact his team's offense.

That's not crazy wild speculation.

If Bradford is healthy for 16 games I think it's safe to assume they win more than 7.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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Right. But he DID get injured. And they DID finish 7-8-1 two years ago. The results are what matter. Kaepernick was on pace for 6500 yards at one point. SF was a few plays away from 3 straight NFC titles. All that **** doesn't matter.


Injuries and talent are 2 different things. Sam has enough talent. Both of his injuries were flukey. They were from being chased from behind. One was a high ankle sprain and the other was from being pulled down from the back at the side lines.
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Old 06-07-2014, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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I think it's fair to assume if a starting QB is healthy for most the season, his presence will positively impact his team's offense.

That's not crazy wild speculation.

If Bradford is healthy for 16 games I think it's safe to assume they win more than 7.
Actually it isn't. They were 3-4 with him as a starter not 5-2 6-1 or anything above .500. 2 of the 3 wins were against teams picking in the top 3 of the draft.
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Actually it isn't. They were 3-4 with him as a starter not 5-2 6-1 or anything above .500. 2 of the 3 wins were against teams picking in the top 3 of the draft.
Look at their roster. Sam Bradford doesn't have to throw the football 40 times for the Rams to win ball games.

The Rams may only win 7 games in 2014, but logic IMO says that if all the key players stay healthy including the recent additions in the draft, 7-8 wins or fewer is a massive underachievement for that squad.
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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Double post. Is there a delete function?
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Its the off season. Right now there are 32 teams who think their teams are going to be better next year. Reasons for failure aren't apparent right now

They have a great looking roster but to me still look like the 3rd best team in the division. I dont have the faith in Bradford that some do. He has been injured too much regardless of how it happened. I dont see any proven offensive weapons on that offense yet. Bradford is the the 3rd best QB as well.
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Old 06-07-2014, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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The Rams could definitely get to the Super Bowl this year, or at least the NFC Championship Game.

Sam Bradford will be the Alex Smith of 2014. He will do what Alex Smith did in 2011 - play well on a stacked team behind a great offensive line alongside an elite defense. And everyone will be saying things like "Nobody saw this coming from Sam Bradford! He's clearly a winner now!" Because QB success is in no small part a function of team defense and offensive line play.

Take Kaepernick and Wilson off their teams and put them on teams with more average defense and offensive line play, and we're talking about them as "developmental prospects still trying to find a role in the NFL", or we're talking about them as "guys with physical tools who haven't taken the next step."

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Old 06-07-2014, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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A couple years ago when the Rams were 7-8-1 and 4-1-1- in the West, the Rams were 5 plays away from 12-4. They lost 4 games on literally one play each game and the tied game by a player lining up wrong. The good teams make these plays, and the bad/mediocre teams don't. The Rams have improved their roster by a huge margin compared to that years team. Their d-line and front 7 might be the best in the NFL. Their o-line looks dominant and also 2 backs that can pound it (Stacy and Mason). Going to be an interesting year for sure. They have the potential to be SB contenders.
Not until you get a legitimate quarterback. Everything else you listed is irrelevant.
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Old 06-07-2014, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Take Kaepernick and Wilson off their teams and put them on teams with more average defense and offensive line play, and we're talking about them as "developmental prospects still trying to find a role in the NFL", or we're talking about them as "guys with physical tools who haven't taken the next step."
Take away Peyton Manning's touchdown passes and he has no touchdowns.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:30 AM    (permalink
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Not until you get a legitimate quarterback. Everything else you listed is irrelevant.
Alex Smith wasn't a legitimate quarterback until he was.

Eli Manning wasn't a legitimate quarterback until he was.

Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick would be struggling on 6-10/7-9 teams if they didn't play behind the SEA/SF O-Lines and alongside the SEA/SF defenses.

Put Sam Bradford on either the Seahawks or 49ers last year and he is playing in the NFC title game.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:32 AM    (permalink
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Take away Peyton Manning's touchdown passes and he has no touchdowns.
Peyton Manning's touchdowns are not dependent on the defense he plays alongside.

Colin Kaepernick and Russel Wilson's win percentage *IS* highly dependent on the defense they play alongside.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:05 AM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning's touchdowns are not dependent on the defense he plays alongside.

Colin Kaepernick and Russel Wilson's win percentage *IS* highly dependent on the defense they play alongside.
What about the actual plays both players are able to make? You can't stick anyone back there.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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Alex Smith wasn't a legitimate quarterback until he was.

Eli Manning wasn't a legitimate quarterback until he was.

Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick would be struggling on 6-10/7-9 teams if they didn't play behind the SEA/SF O-Lines and alongside the SEA/SF defenses.

Put Sam Bradford on either the Seahawks or 49ers last year and he is playing in the NFC title game.

L.o.L.

Russell Wilson took over a 7-9 team with a good defense and run game. They were in the playoffs the next season.

Further, the Seahawks OL is not very good in pass protection. Especially when they're working with mostly backups for half the season like last year.

Bradford has had 4 seasons in the league and so far has shown he'll at best be an average QB for the rest of his career. He scares nobody. The Rams went from a 3-4 team with him to a 4-5 team without him. In other words Kellen Clemens gave them just as good of a chance to win as Bradford.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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L.o.L.

Russell Wilson took over a 7-9 team with a good defense and run game. They were in the playoffs the next season.

Further, the Seahawks OL is not very good in pass protection. Especially when they're working with mostly backups for half the season like last year.

Bradford has had 4 seasons in the league and so far has shown he'll at best be an average QB for the rest of his career. He scares nobody. The Rams went from a 3-4 team with him to a 4-5 team without him. In other words Kellen Clemens gave them just as good of a chance to win as Bradford.

Once Clemens took over, the Rams turned into a running team. Bradford was on pace for 30 TDs and 9 INTs before we went down and was looking great.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Alex Smith wasn't a legitimate quarterback until he was.

Eli Manning wasn't a legitimate quarterback until he was.

Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick would be struggling on 6-10/7-9 teams if they didn't play behind the SEA/SF O-Lines and alongside the SEA/SF defenses.

Put Sam Bradford on either the Seahawks or 49ers last year and he is playing in the NFC title game.
Alex Smith isn't a legitimate quarterback.

Eli Manning always showed flashes of his legitimacy going back to his rookie season. Bradford has never done this. And getting garbage time touchdowns late in games or stat padding doesn't count. What teams has he gone off on and won the game? Who has he beaten? How many games has he had four complete quarters of dominance? (insert excuse here).

And Steve Young wouldn't be a Hall of Famer is he continues to play in Tampa Bay. What if Jerry Rice was in Arizona his entire career? What if Warner was in Cleveland throwing to Kevin Johnson and Dennis Northcutt instead of St.Louis throwing to Holt, Bruce, Hakim, and Faulk? Could do this all day and in this end it proves nothing.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning's touchdowns are not dependent on the defense he plays alongside.

Colin Kaepernick and Russel Wilson's win percentage *IS* highly dependent on the defense they play alongside.
Yeah, they're dependent on his arm. No arm, no touchdowns. They're also dependent on his offensive line and receivers. Manning has had talent to work with his entire career and been in the same offense the majority of his career.

Taking away something that exists to make an irrelevant hypothetical point isn't a convincing argument. If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Cool then Bradford was on pace to win less than 7 games as well if were extrapolating.

Bradford isn't getting enough credit here but he also isn't that great. I'd say he is good to very good as a QB.

I actually don't think he is worlds apart from Kaepernick. Right now Kaepernick just isn't that great of a QB. His amazing physical talent helps him a ton. He can run and his arm strength can help him get the ball in there when he is late reading a defense. He doesn't read the field the field that well though. His raw talent wins out though. His arm is considerably better than Bradfords and with more time with Harbaugh Kaep should develop.

Wilson is my favorite by far and I don't even think he that special compared league wide. I've seen him struggle to see the field but his ability to buy time and find passing lanes is outstanding. He knows what the offense/team needs and consistently provides with out making many mistakes. He isn't asked to carry everything and throw 45 times, but he is really good at what he does.
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Old 06-08-2014, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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Best thing that happened to the Rams Defense all Off-Season was.... I just cannot imagine what he has in store for us. The best DL in the NFL and deepest by far.. not to mention speedy OLB Alec Ogletree on the outside with thumpers Laurinitis and Dunbar next to him.. physical and blitz able Janoris Jenkins, Trumaine Johnson and add in Lamarcus Joyner at CB and NB.. and then big thumping S TJ McDonald on the backend with either McCleod, Maurice Alexander or EVEN Christian Bryant (Former Ohio State S) next to him.

A LOT of looks available.

Hiring Billy Bob Thorton, err.. I mean...
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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L.o.L.

Russell Wilson took over a 7-9 team with a good defense and run game. They were in the playoffs the next season.
They were in the playoffs the next season because their defense improved through the maturation of their young players (Thomas, Sherman, etc) under Carroll's coaching, and the signing of free agents.

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Further, the Seahawks OL is not very good in pass protection. Especially when they're working with mostly backups for half the season like last year.
And it doesn't matter when you literally have a historically great defense. As in, '85 Bears good. Anyone could be the QB on this type of team as long as he was slightly competent.

Sam Bradford wins the Super Bowl on the 2013 Seahawks. Alex Smith wins the Super Bowl with the 2013 Seahawks. Tony Romo wins the Super Bowl with the 2013 Seahawks.
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, they're dependent on his arm. No arm, no touchdowns. They're also dependent on his offensive line and receivers. Manning has had talent to work with his entire career and been in the same offense the majority of his career.

Taking away something that exists to make an irrelevant hypothetical point isn't a convincing argument. If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
The whole point of this exercise is to isolate the play of the quarterback. We are not isolating specific traits of the Quarterback like his arm or his accuracy, we are isolating the total play of the quarterback.

By separating Manning from his touchdowns you are isolating specific traits of the quarterback. By separating Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick from the play of their defense, we are isolating them as quarterbacks. The defense has little to no causality on the effectiveness of Wilson and Kaerpernick as quarterbacks.
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