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Old 06-09-2014, 12:14 PM    (permalink
Jomoz (Thumper)
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Alex Smith isn't a legitimate quarterback.
No? He isn't? He took the 49ers to the NFC CG and took the Chiefs to a playoff game this past year. He is just as legitimate as Kaerpernick on a team with a great defense.

In fact, Smith and Kaerpernick are basically the same QB (not functionally, but in terms of their role on a team). They don't do enough to take over games or take the team on their back like a Brees or a Manning, but they are competent enough to win tons of games with a great defense and a strong running game.

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Eli Manning always showed flashes of his legitimacy going back to his rookie season. Bradford has never done this. And getting garbage time touchdowns late in games or stat padding doesn't count. What teams has he gone off on and won the game? Who has he beaten? How many games has he had four complete quarters of dominance? (insert excuse here).
You can't just cherry pick "flashes of legitimacy" with regard to these two. You couldn't pinpoint these flashes if I asked you to. It's all highly subjective with regard to what "flashes of legitimacy" are.


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And Steve Young wouldn't be a Hall of Famer is he continues to play in Tampa Bay. What if Jerry Rice was in Arizona his entire career? What if Warner was in Cleveland throwing to Kevin Johnson and Dennis Northcutt instead of St.Louis throwing to Holt, Bruce, Hakim, and Faulk? Could do this all day and in this end it proves nothing.
That's the point. You just proved my point for me. QB Success is highly dependent on the team the QB plays on. Of course Steve Young would probably not be as successful on a bad team.

Sam Bradford hasn't been successful on a team with a bad defense and a bad OL. Neither would Colin Kaepernick.

Colin Kaepernick has been successful on a team with a top-3 defense and a top-3 OL. Sam Bradford would too, and if the Rams develop into that team soon (which I think they can), Sam Bradford will be just as successful, in terms of win percentage and playoff games, as Colin Kaerpernick.
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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The whole point of this exercise is to isolate the play of the quarterback. We are not isolating specific traits of the Quarterback like his arm or his accuracy, we are isolating the total play of the quarterback.

By separating Manning from his touchdowns you are isolating specific traits of the quarterback. By separating Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick from the play of their defense, we are isolating them as quarterbacks. The defense has little to no causality on the effectiveness of Wilson and Kaerpernick as quarterbacks.
But your approach on these hypothetical scenarios is completely irrelevant. If Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick were on XYZ teams they wouldn't be as effective. If we use that logic John Elway was a better quarterback than Joe Montana. Or Archie Manning should be a Hall of Famer because he played on the Saints his entire career. The point is that you can't say with absolute certainty how successful a player would be on another team. People though Elvis Grbac was the missing ingredient to the Ravens inconsistent quarterback play when they got rid of Dilfer after the Super Bowl. Didn't work out as planned. Same with Favre going to the Jets.
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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No? He isn't? He took the 49ers to the NFC CG and took the Chiefs to a playoff game this past year. He is just as legitimate as Kaerpernick on a team with a great defense.

In fact, Smith and Kaerpernick are basically the same QB (not functionally, but in terms of their role on a team). They don't do enough to take over games or take the team on their back like a Brees or a Manning, but they are competent enough to win tons of games with a great defense and a strong running game.
So? Dilfer won a Super Bowl. And I think it was more so the 49ers taking Alex there for most of the season. If he is so legitimate as Colin on the 49ers why has Colin taken the team much further in this limited time as a starter compared to Alex's 7 years there?

If you think Colin and Alex are the same quarterback then you're crazy. Yeah I'm sure Alex would have torched the Packers in that playoff game two years ago.



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You can't just cherry pick "flashes of legitimacy" with regard to these two. You couldn't pinpoint these flashes if I asked you to. It's all highly subjective with regard to what "flashes of legitimacy" are.
Sure you can if you use your brain and actually watch football. It's called the eyeball test. It's called putting up points when it matters most instead of when it matters least and winning games (Sam Bradford). I remember Eli Manning early on struggled, but it wasn't long until he started to show why he was the right man of the job. He already had a four touchdown game under his belt by his second season. Alex Smith finally accomplished this just last year.


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That's the point. You just proved my point for me. QB Success is highly dependent on the team the QB plays on. Of course Steve Young would probably not be as successful on a bad team.

Sam Bradford hasn't been successful on a team with a bad defense and a bad OL. Neither would Colin Kaepernick.

Colin Kaepernick has been successful on a team with a top-3 defense and a top-3 OL. Sam Bradford would too, and if the Rams develop into that team soon (which I think they can), Sam Bradford will be just as successful, in terms of win percentage and playoff games, as Colin Kaerpernick.
No, the point is that you don't know what would happen with absolute certainty. I already said this.

Oh and I will be back when Bradford fails again by either getting hurt or just not producing. Don't worriy you can use the "it was his receivers, bad offensive line, it's not his fault he got hurt" card again.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 06-09-2014, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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They were in the playoffs the next season because their defense improved through the maturation of their young players (Thomas, Sherman, etc) under Carroll's coaching, and the signing of free agents.



And it doesn't matter when you literally have a historically great defense. As in, '85 Bears good. Anyone could be the QB on this type of team as long as he was slightly competent.

Sam Bradford wins the Super Bowl on the 2013 Seahawks. Alex Smith wins the Super Bowl with the 2013 Seahawks. Tony Romo wins the Super Bowl with the 2013 Seahawks.

So you completely discount the improvement of the offense when it comes to the teams success? An offense that can stay in the field and put up points is a huge help to the defense. Keeping the defense fresh and limiting the oppositions T.O.P. helps a great deal. Further, the defense was very good in 2012, but not historically good. They had a very average pass rush, and the run d faltered down the stretch. In fact they were responsible for losing a few games (Detroit, Atlanta.) The only major change From 2011 to 2012 was Russell Wilson. But he gets no credit? The guy simply makes players around him better with his poise and leadership. That's not something you can say about Bradford (or kaepernick.)
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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That's not something you can say about Bradford (or kaepernick.)
Michael Crabtree looks a lot better catches passes from Colin than he did Alex. Mostly in terms of YAC. Colin is an upgrade over Alex. It's pretty simple to see this on Sundays and in the playoffs.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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There is no throw or no play Bradford can't make. All he needs is protection and for his receivers to have separation, two things he seldom gets. The o-line is looking a lot better and with the emergence of Zac Stacy and the running game, Bradford should see more stacked boxes which will help the passing game. Greg Robinson will help too. They will power run on most teams. Moving Saffold to OG helped the running game too. The Rams will have a top 5 o-line this year.

Long / Robinson / Wells / Saffold / Barksdale
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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There is no throw or no play Bradford can't make.
Not even sam bradford believes this
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Old 06-09-2014, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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They don't do enough to take over games or take the team on their back
444 Total Yards and 4 TDs in a playoff game.

435 Total Yards and 4 TDs in a playoff game.


Oh, but yes they can.
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Old 06-09-2014, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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444 Total Yards and 4 TDs in a playoff game.

435 Total Yards and 4 TDs in a playoff game.


Oh, but yes they can.
+1.

Kaep and Wilson aren't necessarily asked to win games by their respective teams, but when they are both have looked clutch and at times dominant.

The Seahawks don't win without Wilson throwing for a combined 52 TDs and only 19 INTs for two consecutive seasons.

Yes Wilson landed in a great situation in Seattle, but he also made them a better football team. Same thing to a lesser extent with CK in SF.

You can't put any young QB in either situation and assume SF and the Seahawks would still be strong SB contenders.
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Old 06-09-2014, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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There is no throw or no play Bradford can't make. All he needs is protection and for his receivers to have separation, two things he seldom gets. The o-line is looking a lot better and with the emergence of Zac Stacy and the running game, Bradford should see more stacked boxes which will help the passing game. Greg Robinson will help too. They will power run on most teams. Moving Saffold to OG helped the running game too. The Rams will have a top 5 o-line this year.

Long / Robinson / Wells / Saffold / Barksdale
How long are we going to blame the receivers and offensive line? It's not like they fail him on every single play or in every single game. I mean Roethlisberger and Rogers have had mediocre lines their entire career yet they still showcase the ability to make plays. Wilson did this last season without All Pro receivers. Just seems like Bradford apologists always try to equate his situation to Archie Manning being on the Saints or Steve Young during his time with Tampa Bay, and this isn't the case.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 06-09-2014, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Michael Crabtree looks a lot better catches passes from Colin than he did Alex. Mostly in terms of YAC. Colin is an upgrade over Alex. It's pretty simple to see this on Sundays and in the playoffs.
This is the point here. You watch the games and all these hypothetical scenarios and ifs ands or buts disappear.
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Old 06-09-2014, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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This is the point here. You watch the games and all these hypothetical scenarios and ifs ands or buts disappear.
These forum was built on hypothetical situations.
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Old 06-09-2014, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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These forum was built on hypothetical situations.
If Sam Bradford had balls, she'd be your Uncle. I think I'm getting the hang of this.
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Old 06-09-2014, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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How long are we going to blame the receivers and offensive line? It's not like they fail him on every single play or in every single game. I mean Roethlisberger and Rogers have had mediocre lines their entire career yet they still showcase the ability to make plays. Wilson did this last season without All Pro receivers. Just seems like Bradford apologists always try to equate his situation to Archie Manning being on the Saints or Steve Young during his time with Tampa Bay, and this isn't the case.


Bradford turned Amendola into a hot commodity and had Mark Clayton putting up pro bowl numbers. Too bad they couldn't stay healthy.
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Old 06-09-2014, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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I now know how the Alex Smith bashers felt when someone would vehemently defend Smith. It's just too funny.
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Old 06-09-2014, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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If Sam Bradford had balls, she'd be your Uncle. I think I'm getting the hang of this.
*takes notes*

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Bradford turned Amendola into a hot commodity and had Mark Clayton putting up pro bowl numbers. Too bad they couldn't stay healthy.
But he's not en vogue right now, so thus, he suckssss.

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I now know how the Alex Smith bashers felt when someone would vehemently defend Smith. It's just too funny.
Alex Smith defenders would be a top 5 defense in the NFL
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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If Bradford stays healthy for at least 14 games this season, what are his stats?

I say @ 3800yds passing/62% completions/32+ TDs/10 INTs.

That does not suck.

If the D takes a step up in play as expected, the Rams make the playoffs.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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If Bradford stays healthy for at least 14 games this season, what are his stats?

I say @ 3800yds passing/62% completions/32+ TDs/10 INTs.

That does not suck.

If the D takes a step up on play as expected, the Rams make the playoffs.



damn straight
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Old 06-10-2014, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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If Bradford stays healthy and the Offensive Line and Defensive Lines are as good as I think they will be (i.e. top-8), the Rams make it to the NFC Championship game.
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Old 06-10-2014, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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Not enough Shaun Hill in this thread...



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Old 06-10-2014, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Not enough Shaun Hill in this thread...






is he supposed to mentor Bradford?
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Old 06-10-2014, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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is he supposed to mentor Bradford?
Something about him being significantly better than Bradford and should get a shot.

:D
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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Something about him being significantly better than Bradford and should get a shot.

:D


Yeah, I'm sure. You probably thought he was better than Stafford a couple years ago too when Stafford was hurt a couple times. Sam was on his way to shutting up his critics before being drug down out of bounds by a dirty tackle which ended his season after being on pace for 30 TD's and 10 INT's. After he plays 16 games and leads the Rams to the playoffs this year, I think people will finally get off his back. The dude is 6'4 235 lbs, strong arm, accurate and loaded with talent. He was just put in a horrible spot coming to a team that had the worst roster and record (15-65) in NFL history. He came within one game of taking that team to the playoffs his rookie year by playing great. If Denario Alexander doesn't drop 3-4 balls that final game, the Rams probably go to the playoffs.
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I'm sure. You probably thought he was better than Stafford a couple years ago too when Stafford was hurt a couple times. Sam was on his way to shutting up his critics before being drug down out of bounds by a dirty tackle which ended his season after being on pace for 30 TD's and 10 INT's. After he plays 16 games and leads the Rams to the playoffs this year, I think people will finally get off his back. The dude is 6'4 235 lbs, strong arm, accurate and loaded with talent. He was just put in a horrible spot coming to a team that had the worst roster and record (15-65) in NFL history. He came within one game of taking that team to the playoffs his rookie year by playing great. If Denario Alexander doesn't drop 3-4 balls that final game, the Rams probably go to the playoffs.
Then why were the Rams 3-4 when he got hurt? Bradford wasn't on his way to shutting up his critics because the Rams weren't going to finish ahead of Seattle or SF.
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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Bradfords arm is solid but I wouldn't call it strong. Even with projecting he has a losing record. He put up some nice stats early against a couple bad team and then got hurt for the season again.
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