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View Poll Results: Which CB do you choose?
Revis Island 16 17.58%
Richard the mouth Sherman 42 46.15%
Patrick Peterson 22 24.18%
Other: Really? Which guy, seriously? 11 12.09%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-31-2014, 07:16 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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Default Which franchise CB?

You choose.

You're building a team, need to do as good as you can over just the next 4 seasons.

Which CB do you choose, factoring in their salaries?
All their salaries are sky high, similar, so actually forget the money as a factor really as each guy makes a boatload.





Peterson on Sherman:
http://images.dailyzone.com/data/ima...-jpg.jpg?w=570

Simple question: Which CB do you grab for your new squad? You get first pick among any and all CBs.

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Old 05-31-2014, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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Why is Patrick Peterson even in this discussion...?
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Old 05-31-2014, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Either Haden or Sherman.
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Old 05-31-2014, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Sherman. He is the top corner in the league and is young still. It may sound silly in a hypothetical but Sherman is a star player and gives my team a face for marketing. Revis has injuries and age against him. Peterson is good but I dont think he is on the same level yet. His tools are crazy though.
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Old 05-31-2014, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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Why is Patrick Peterson a option, but Joe Haden is not? Peterson is why too inconsistent to be considered a franchise corner.

Idk it is a toss up between Sherman and Harden I would say it is 1a and 1b for me.
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Old 05-31-2014, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Peterson is more of a flashy CB, he does has shut down ability but its not always on display. Sherman is a shutdown CB. He cuts the field in half and makes things very difficult for QBs. I just simply prefer that type of player.
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Old 05-31-2014, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SunTzu_22 View Post
Why is Patrick Peterson even in this discussion...?
2 reasons:

So far, 6 of 13 have voted for Peterson.

And because I believe if every player was declared a free agent and to be selected in a new open draft, that there are PLENTY of GMs who would take Peterson before Sherman. The guy is an insane, special, rare athlete. And young. And not such an A-hole like the Mouth is. And he doesn't get away with holding and mugging as often as Mouth.

I don't believe anyone would draft Haden above all these guys, but some of you might?

Add him to the list.

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Old 05-31-2014, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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No Haden? He'd have my vote.
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Old 05-31-2014, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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When factoring in all considerations and what not I am going to go with Janoris Jenkins as the NFL's new franchise, shut down CB.

Believe it or not with being allowed to play up and press and him playing in Williams' attacking defense and not to mention a tremendous pass rush in front of him, I can see him taking his game to the next level as early as next year.

No doubt many will disagree so let the skewering begin......
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Old 05-31-2014, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Well, I wish Revis was a little younger because there's no corner that I've ever seen as good as him on an island. He pissed me off because he got away with some tugging here or there, but he knew how to play in this day and age.
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Old 05-31-2014, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Revis and Sherman are the better cornerbacks at this point. I'd go Revis, as he doesn't have the same supporting cast. Would Sherman be in this conversation if Revis played for the Seahawks and Sherman was in Tampa Bay?
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Old 06-01-2014, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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Well, I wish Revis was a little younger because there's no corner that I've ever seen as good as him on an island. He pissed me off because he got away with some tugging here or there, but he knew how to play in this day and age.
It's blasphemy I know but has he really been any better than Haden in the past few years? I'm loathe to praise a brown, but Haden's above even my contempt for that "city". I'm genuinely not sure he hasn't been just as good as Revis.
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Old 06-01-2014, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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It's blasphemy I know but has he really been any better than Haden in the past few years? I'm loathe to praise a brown, but Haden's above even my contempt for that "city". I'm genuinely not sure he hasn't been just as good as Revis.
Small market team gets less hype/notice? Can't really offer my opinion on Haden because I haven't watched him.
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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I read the poll a bunch of times. I still can't find the Kyle Fuller option.

But seriously, since you specified that it's for four seasons and that we have to pay them what they make in real life, I'm going with Desmond Trufant. Really good, really young, and eats up just about zero of my cap space, allowing me to spend on other things, like a corner for the other side of the field.

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Old 06-01-2014, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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It's blasphemy I know but has he really been any better than Haden in the past few years? I'm loathe to praise a brown, but Haden's above even my contempt for that "city". I'm genuinely not sure he hasn't been just as good as Revis.
I used to think that way, but I noticed as I watched more Browns games that I fairly regularly saw Haden either beat or in poor coverage.

These 2 articles really opened my eyes a bit.

http://presnapreads.com/2014/02/26/d...-verdict-2014/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ks-2013-season
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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Also useful:

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Old 06-01-2014, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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A franchise CB? Um, how many teams win Super Bowls without those? Last time I checked, the DLINE is key to the secondary's success.
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Old 06-01-2014, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Now that I think of it, if I'm building a team, I don't think I'm going to use a good amount of my cap and invest in an expensive corner from the jump.
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Old 06-01-2014, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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If I'm just picking one as a player to start my team with, PP is tempting because of his overall athleticism and the fact that he's a great returner. Seems like Revis hasn't been the same since getting injured and leaving Rex Ryan's defense. I also really like Sherman's length and how he has such a firm grasp of what is happening on the field and what his responsibility is - he knows where the ball is going to be and plays it like a big wide receiver, and that has worked out tremendously for Seattle. I also really like Joe Haden, and as Monomach said, Desmond Trufant is probably going to be recognized as a member of this group soon enough. Fan loyalty has be staying with Sherman, though. He's got the best ball skills and play recognition of everyone here, and that's obviously been working out just as well, if not better, than if he was a freak athlete who was just mirroring a receiver all the time without knowing what the receiver was doing. (PP)
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Old 06-01-2014, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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If I'm just picking one as a player to start my team with, PP is tempting because of his overall athleticism and the fact that he's a great returner. Seems like Revis hasn't been the same since getting injured and leaving Rex Ryan's defense. I also really like Sherman's length and how he has such a firm grasp of what is happening on the field and what his responsibility is - he knows where the ball is going to be and plays it like a big wide receiver, and that has worked out tremendously for Seattle. I also really like Joe Haden, and as Monomach said, Desmond Trufant is probably going to be recognized as a member of this group soon enough. Fan loyalty has be staying with Sherman, though. He's got the best ball skills and play recognition of everyone here, and that's obviously been working out just as well, if not better, than if he was a freak athlete who was just mirroring a receiver all the time without knowing what the receiver was doing. (PP)
Revis is still outstanding. I implore you to read this article.

http://presnapreads.com/2014/02/26/d...-verdict-2014/

Since things like PFF became a thing, people without even realizing it use things like QB rating against to form an opinion of CB's. Just because a guy's QB rating against spikes 30-40 points or so from season to season doesn't mean his play has fallen off. In reality you're using the difference of 4-8 plays (TD's against and Interceptions for), some that may not even be a CB's fault or an indication of good coverage or skill, to come up with half of what QB rating consists of. In the larger scheme of 550 or so coverage snaps it doesn't make a lot of sense to look at such a small sample to make a determination.

From a Patriots fan perspective we had some pretty dumb internal arguments that Talib was this wildly inconsistent corner who either played excellent or poorly. That was because PFF sliced an already small sample and made it even smaller. One sample included a bunch of games with interceptions, and the other had no interceptions and an 80 YD TD pass given up on a blown deep safety assignment.

What resulted was a subsection of games where Talib had a 20ish QB rating against and a subsection where he had a 120ish rating against. His play didn't really fall off that much, he still was following 1's around the field and holding them to the most part under their normal averages, but the lack of interceptions and a couple of touchdowns given up made him look abysmal when he really wasn't.

So in short, if you're looking for a stat to unconsciously utilize, use yards per coverage snap not QB rating against. Better yet think about utilization of man vs. zone, whether the CB trails an opponents best receiver, and how much safety help they get. It's why a 28 year old press-man guy like Talib with worse PFF stats got a better contract than a 25 year old bail technique guy like Alterraun Verner did.

Revis for all that was made about his down season last year because his QB rating was 81 against, still had the lowest yards per coverage snap, and had an 83% success rate in man coverage. That's pretty much as shut down as it gets.

The above wasn't really directed at you, more so me just noticing the normal consensus on CB's seems to swing with that QB rating against stat.

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Old 06-01-2014, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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They play very different positions so it matters on your philosophy. I'd probably contend that a man-to-man guy who can play everywhere is more valuable, but for Seattle's scheme Sherman plays the position at an incredibly high level to the point where it's fair to wonder if anyone else in the league could even come close to being that good at his scheme-specific position.
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Sherman's more loyal to a team than Revis despite Sherman getting paid and all. I have no idea what team Revis will be on in 4 years or how many teams he will be on in 4 years. That's all you need to know about the guy, that absolutely has to be factored in as to which CB you want on your team long term.

Revis and his holdouts show he's more in it for himself than he is for the team. This wasn't just 1 holdout...he held out before even playing in the NFL, had the infamous one in 2010 and contemplated it in 2012.

I think Revis is a smudge better though but for team purposes, give me Sherman since he's played well with or without enhancements.

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Old 06-01-2014, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
They play very different positions so it matters on your philosophy. I'd probably contend that a man-to-man guy who can play everywhere is more valuable, but for Seattle's scheme Sherman plays the position at an incredibly high level to the point where it's fair to wonder if anyone else in the league could even come close to being that good at his scheme-specific position.
Pretty much this. What Seattle wants from its corners is long, smart players with ball skills; that is basically what the job description is. Other teams have different job descriptions. Schemes can vary so widely from team to team that it's really a matter of what a specific team wants from its corners.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Revis is a year removed from ACL surgery, which is what most athletes take to return to form from a torn ACL plus Belichick will play him in man coverage, what he does best.

If I had to pick for one year - Revis, hands down.

If I had to pick for the rest of their career - it's probably Haden or Sherman.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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When was the last time a Elite CB was still told he was the #1 CB 4 years from then? Seems like the CB #1 changes every little while.
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