2004 QB Class or 2006 QB Class? - Page 2

ElectricEye · 04-08-2007, 12:08 PM

Baaad comparisons. None of them make any sense, really.
But I like the 06 class over the 04 class.

HoopsDemon12 · 04-08-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloDraftGeek

Losman is better than Manning. He won games for his team last year, Manning lost them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky bobby

You're dillusional.

I would have to agree will draft geek...eli won some games sure...but look what j.p did wiht the bills....im a huge bills fan...and i hate losman...but i can actually say i like losman bette rthen eli

GiantRutgersFan · 04-08-2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChargerCohen

Cutler=Simms is pretty bad too. Not as bad as Eli=Elway though.

I did Cutler to Simms because of their teams situation more then the players.

Both are on good franchises who consistently had a very good D and a good running attack.

As for Eli to Elway, the similarities are uncanny. Being a Charger fan, I doubt you watch much Giants football. But the 4th quarter comebacks are a common link between them, as are several other factors

GiantRutgersFan · 04-08-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsDemon12

I would have to agree will draft geek...eli won some games sure...but look what j.p did wiht the bills....im a huge bills fan...and i hate losman...but i can actually say i like losman bette rthen eli

well.... your a homer.

Eli single handedly put the Giants in position to win 6 games this season by making a big drive in the 4th quarter to go ahead, or tie the game with under 3 minutes remaining.

The defense ending up blowing 4 of them however.

Eli>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JP "I Los(e)man"

and i watched some Bills games last year BTW and dont dislike the Bills at all. And I dont even mind Losman

JK17 · 04-08-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

As for Eli to Elway, the similarities are uncanny. Being a Charger fan, I doubt you watch much Giants football. But the 4th quarter comebacks are a common link between them, as are several other factors

This is where you lose credibility in almost every single one of your threads regarding quarterback play and Eli.

EDIT: In addition, if we are going to assume that fans of other teams do not watch other team's games, I would have to question how you know enough about Elway to compare him to Eli, as the Broncos play on the other side of the country, in a different division and conference entirely.

Ewing · 04-08-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

As for Eli to Elway, the similarities are uncanny. Being a Charger fan, I doubt you watch much Giants football. But the 4th quarter comebacks are a common link between them, as are several other factors

Vince Young has more 4th quarter comebacks than Eli. Remember when Eli and Vince faced off or do I have to bust out the highlight reel?

GiantRutgersFan · 04-08-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK17

This is where you lose credibility in almost every single one of your threads regarding quarterback play and Eli.

EDIT: In addition, if we are going to assume that fans of other teams do not watch other team's games, I would have to question how you know enough about Elway to compare him to Eli, as the Broncos play on the other side of the country, in a different division and conference entirely.

ummmm Elway has played for 10 years and was in several Superbowl and a load of playoff games. do you really think I never saw him play?

Look up Elways stats in his first 3 years. Look up Elis stats. notice the similaritys.

Elway had a stigma attached to him until he won a superbowl much like Eli does now

Perhaps VY did have more comebacks. Im not saying he didnt. I dont really know, but it seemed like ESPN was always talking about that.

I dont dislike Vince Young and didnt say anything bad about him.... not really sure what your point is....

yourfavestoner · 04-08-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

ummmm Elway has played for 10 years and was in several Superbowl and a load of playoff games. do you really think I never saw him play?

Look up Elways stats in his first 3 years. Look up Elis stats. notice the similaritys.

Elway had a stigma attached to him until he won a superbowl much like Eli does now

Okay, but you realize their playing styles (the most important thing in player to player comparisons) are completely different right?

JK17 · 04-08-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

ummmm Elway has played for 10 years and was in several Superbowl and a load of playoff games. do you really think I never saw him play?

Look up Elways stats in his first 3 years. Look up Elis stats. notice the similaritys.

Elway had a stigma attached to him until he won a superbowl much like Eli does now

Eli is on tv almost every week...do you really think no one else has seen him play? Your stats argument is absurd, as even you have to know stats cannot tell the full story on a player.

I don't want to waste any more space on a thread arguing about Eli, unless you really want to. We've beaten this to death in countless other threads and posts so there is really no need to do it. Comparing Eli to Elway is something I have only seen you do. Find me other Giants fans who have the same agreement...or any other fan at all and I may give you some credibility on this. If you can't I would suggest you look at almost every other post in this thread that has ridiculed that comparison.

GiantRutgersFan · 04-08-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

Okay, but you realize their playing styles (the most important thing in player to player comparisons) are completely different right?

I wouldnt say completely different. And thats not how I was doing it. I meant more like there teams make up, demeanor and amount of success that they are gonna have when I was doing the comparasions i made

GiantRutgersFan · 04-08-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK17

Eli is on tv almost every week...do you really think no one else has seen him play? Your stats argument is absurd, as even you have to know stats cannot tell the full story on a player.

I don't want to waste any more space on a thread arguing about Eli, unless you really want to. We've beaten this to death in countless other threads and posts so there is really no need to do it. Comparing Eli to Elway is something I have only seen you do. Find me other Giants fans who have the same agreement...or any other fan at all and I may give you some credibility on this. If you can't I would suggest you look at almost every other post in this thread that has ridiculed that comparison.

do you even understand my point? There are so many similaritys in there first 3 seasons. Im not saying "Eli Manning is as good as John Elway". I am just saying that I think Eli is gonna develop into that kind of guy and do similar things to what Elway did, minus the losing in the superbowl a couple times.

JK17 · 04-08-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

do you even understand my point? There are so many similaritys in there first 3 seasons. Im not saying "Eli Manning is as good as John Elway". I am just saying that I think Eli is gonna develop into that kind of guy and do similar things to what Elway did, minus the losing in the superbowl a couple times.

Of course I understand your point, It's just a bad point. Aside from the comebacks that Eli supposedly has had, which are of almost no comparison to Elways, I would like to hear the other similarities, bear in mind that almost all first few years QBs have similar stats...

toonsterwu · 04-08-2007, 01:46 PM

I'd take 06 over 04. It's close, though, and obviously, making a judgment now is hard. I think Schaub will be at least a solid starter, I think Losman is developing. That said, the thing is, the top 3 of 2004 has had some time, and there's so much that is unknown, and I'm not sold that any of those three will be elite level QB's in the NFL. The 06's all looked fairly solid in their adjustments last year.

Only time will tell, though.

GiantRutgersFan · 04-08-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK17

Of course I understand your point, It's just a bad point. Aside from the comebacks that Eli supposedly has had, which are of almost no comparison to Elways, I would like to hear the other similarities, bear in mind that almost all first few years QBs have similar stats...

Did you see Giants vs Eagles, week 3? that was imo the GOTY in all of the NFL.

as for other similaritys, #1 pick overall, involved in contreversial draft day trade, extremely high expectations of both of them, a lot of (unfair) criticism of both of them in early years, etc.

JK17 · 04-08-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

Did you see Giants vs Eagles, week 3? that was imo the GOTY in all of the NFL.

I did see that game. I saw Plaxico Burress make a great play to win the game. But even if we give Eli credit for that, plenty of other QBs have made comebacks and I wouldn't compare them to Elway. Hell, look at Rivers. He came back from down over 17 points at halftime two games in a row. His game against Cincy is worthy of the GOTY and Elway comparisons in and of itself. But people don't compare Rivers to Elway because a couple comebacks do not make you a comeback king.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

as for other similaritys, #1 pick overall, involved in contreversial draft day trade, extremely high expectations of both of them, a lot of (unfair) criticism of both of them in early years, etc.

Now you are making similarities about things that have nothing to do with on the field performance. I have no problem with you comparing Eli's draft situation with Elway, because that is a valid comparison. But when you refer to Eli as similar to Elway, as you have in other threads too, you are not referring to this, you are referring to what you see on the field, which isn't there.

The main thing I see missing between these two quarterbacks is the ability to motivate. Elway gave his team the feel that they were never out of the came. He beamed with confidence. This is something you do not see in Manning. This is not an attack on Manning. I know I am biased because as a Charger fan, I hate him, but I can also admit he is an average to above average NFL starter. But c'mon. Aside from the off-the field stuff, he has no place in a conversation about Elway.

Xiomera · 04-08-2007, 02:03 PM

I am so tempted to give him negative rep for mis-spelling Leinart's name.

Komp · 04-08-2007, 02:08 PM

Yah I'm with JK17 on this one. Manning has a lot of work to do before you can compare to anyone great.

I think the 06 class will be light years ahead of the 04 class in 3-4 years. We'll see if they have any sophmore slumps next year.

JK17 · 04-08-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Komp

Yah I'm with JK17 on this one. Manning has a lot of work to do before you can compare to anyone great.

Exactly, it's not so much a bash on Eli as it is respect to Elway. Although he's another one I hate...haha.

Stash · 04-08-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

well.... your a homer.

Eli single handedly put the Giants in position to win 6 games this season by making a big drive in the 4th quarter to go ahead, or tie the game with under 3 minutes remaining.

The defense ending up blowing 4 of them however.

Eli>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JP "I Los(e)man"

and i watched some Bills games last year BTW and dont dislike the Bills at all. And I dont even mind Losman

I find it absolutely hilarious that you are calling someone else a homer when you are a Giants fan trying to compare Eli to Elway.

I pretty much agree with draftgeek and hoopsdemon about Losman. He is the only QB from the 04 class on that list that has gotten better over the years while the other QB's like Big Ben and Eli have regressed from their early success. Rivers had a really good year in his first year starting, but I think most would agree that he has benefited from having one of the most talented offenses surrounding him. Losman played very well for the Bills, who have been really bad for a while now, and he almost got them to the playoffs.

As for the guys in the 06 class, I think Cutler and Leinart have the potential to be the best QB's out of all these guys, but they have only played one season, so we'll need a few more years in order to judge their performance better.

doingthisinsteadofwork · 04-08-2007, 02:14 PM

Those are some pretty bad comparisons.T-Jack sounds stupid as well.Croyle was a better prospect than Jackson.
Leinart reminds me alot of Ken Stabler.

BigDawg819 · 04-08-2007, 02:14 PM

Why don't we wait until we see the QB's do something this year before we crown them? GRF you are such a tool, we do they still let you post threads?

neko4 · 04-08-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CutlerChris

Do you compare everything just physically? Russell can't be compared to Palmer because Russell's athletic, and Boller is a good comparison to Russell since they both have good arms and fair mobility? More goes into a comparison than physical attributes, you know.

No I dont, but would you call big ben athletic. In Favre's younger days(especially college) he was a running QB. Not so much in the pros but still, Favre and Big Ben arent alike except that they have slightly similar arms. Athelticaly and physically(maybe mentally too) they are different.

Jay · 04-08-2007, 02:40 PM

I think it's too early to say, but if I had to look in my crystal ball and predict, I would probably go with 2004...

Stash · 04-08-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neko4

No I dont, but would you call big ben athletic. In Favre's younger days(especially college) he was a running QB. Not so much in the pros but still, Favre and Big Ben arent alike except that they have slightly similar arms. Athelticaly and physically(maybe mentally too) they are different.

Similar arms? Favre has one of the best arms in NFL history, he throws finger breaking fastballs. Big Bens arm isn't even close, the only guy in this discussion who's arm should be compared to that of Favre is Cutler, he can zip that thing.

San Diego Chicken · 04-08-2007, 03:09 PM

The Roethlisberger skepticism is something that I really don't get. The man has won a Super Bowl, and had a passer rating over 98 in his first two seasons, which I believe was the second highest in the league during that span behind Manning.

He had a down year last year, which I attribute to his bad motorcycle accident which most likely injured him emotionally as much as it did physically, and an emergency appendectomy. He tried to do too much throughout the season and threw plenty of picks, but does that negate what he's accomplished? He's a supremely gifted physical specimine with a great and competitive mental makeup. Oh, and he's still 25 years old. The guy is no slouch people, he can play the game. And please don't bring up the "supporting cast" argument. Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Tom Rathman, Brent Jones, Roger Craig - That is a supporting cast. Please don't pass off Hines Ward, Willie Parker, Antwaan Randle El and an ancient Jerome Bettis as a "great supporting cast"