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View Poll Results: Better Quarterback class?
2004 (Big Ben, Manning, Rivers.... Losman, Schuab) 32 37.21%
2006 (Young, Lienart, Cutler.... Clemens, T-Jack) 54 62.79%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-08-2007, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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As prospects, 04, and it's not real close for me. All the QBs last year had big time questions that weren't nearly as bad as 04. It's too early to tell as players since the guys from 06 only have one year, but I'd lean towards 04 as well.
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Old 04-08-2007, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moses View Post
He wasn't a star but he did do a nice job managing the game and not losing it for the Steelers.
If im not mistaken, didnt he have a like 20 passer rating in the superbowl. If it wasnt for the refs and that defense everyone would of been creaming big ben the next day for blowing the game.
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Old 04-08-2007, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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2004... Ben already won a superbowl, Rivers led his team to an amazing record, and Manning is pretty underrated just because of where he plays.
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Old 04-08-2007, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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I think Vince Young will ultimately be better than McNair. McNair didn't have nearly the rookie season that Young did. They plan on retooling Young's throwing methods/arm in the offseason, so hopefully he will be even better next year. I think the kid's gonna have a hell of a career.

And Ben had a pretty low QB rating(9-21, 123 yds, 2 INT)
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Old 04-08-2007, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
Manning is pretty underrated just because of where he plays.
Indeed...


I really wonder what it would have been like if the internet was popular like it is now in the 90s when we had Dave Brown and Danny Kanell leading our team....
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Old 04-08-2007, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Indeed...


I really wonder what it would have been like if the internet was popular like it is now in the 90s when we had Dave Brown and Danny Kanell leading our team....
Danny Kanell WOOT! :D
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 04-08-2007, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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I think '04 had the better prospects, but '06 will be viewed, in hindsight, as the vastly superior class.
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Old 04-08-2007, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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I said 06 simply because this entire thread is just an effort to garner more respect for Eli from a lame ass Giants homer.
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Old 04-08-2007, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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I said 06 simply because this entire thread is just an effort to garner more respect for Eli from a lame ass Giants homer.
Haha, valid point.
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Old 04-08-2007, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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ELi is the worst QB out of the 04 class.
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Old 04-08-2007, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trademaster View Post
ELi is the worst QB out of the 04 class.
BJ Symons disagrees.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by draftguru151 View Post
BJ Symons disagrees.
So does Matt Mauck, Casey Bramlet, Cody Pickett, John Navarre, Jeff Smoker, Josh Harris, etc.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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I meant, the worse QB with high to mid aspirations.

Right now I'll go:

1.Big Ben(Because he has a ring)
2.Rivers
3.J.P. Losman(Could have been in the playoffs, if he is in the NFC)
4.Eli(He has Tiki,Shockey, and Plaxico) yet he cant play like real QB, he can put-up good #'s but he can kill you with his turnovers, and dumbhead mistakes.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trademaster View Post
I meant, the worse QB with high to mid aspirations.

Right now I'll go:

1.Big Ben(Because he has a ring)
2.Rivers
3.J.P. Losman(Could have been in the playoffs, if he is in the NFC)
4.Eli(He has Tiki,Shockey, and Plaxico) yet he cant play like real QB, he can put-up good #'s but he can kill you with his turnovers, and dumbhead mistakes.
...anxiosuly awaits GRF response...
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post


Big Ben............ Brett Favre

Phil Rivers.........Jim Kelly

Eli Manning....... John Elway

Jay Cutler.........Phil Simms

Vince Young.....Air Mcnair but slightly better

Matt Lienart.....Trent Green

Wow, wtf?

You say Vince Young is better then Steve after one year of throwing like ass?

"Eli Manning....... John Elway"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Eli Manning sucks dude!

All of these comparisons are pretty bad, sorry.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trademaster View Post
I meant, the worse QB with high to mid aspirations.

Right now I'll go:

1.Big Ben(Because he has a ring)
2.Rivers
3.J.P. Losman(Could have been in the playoffs, if he is in the NFC)
4.Eli(He has Tiki,Shockey, and Plaxico) yet he cant play like real QB, he can put-up good #'s but he can kill you with his turnovers, and dumbhead mistakes.

yea and he had freaking Tim Carter and Bob Whitfield. Plus a crap defense. When the team was healthy, he was a pro bowl caliber QB.

And you have JP Losman over Eli???? what a joke. Eli took a team with the 4th worst team 2004 draft into a perennial post season contender in just one year. Teams didnt stack 8 in the box against the G-Men. And Tiki was underutilized in the passing game, as was Shockey. And since when is Plaxico just a great player? I like the guy but he is a borderline #1 reciever. Theres probably 20 better WRs in the NFL. Yet people say how great Eli's recievers are.



JP Losman is a perrenial loser, with one decent year (yet Eli has had a better season every single year). His team was considerably better then the Giants when he was drafted, yet he hasnt even sniffed the playoffs.


Comparing the 2 is an insult to all intelligent football fans, as well as an insult to Eli Manning and the New York Giants.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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I love how everyone writes off Eli. "He loses games." Name one, please. He's put the team in plenty of opportunities to win when the defense blew it. Lost his LT and his most reliable WR. He got sacked 8 times in a game and still managed to come back from a 17 pt deficit.

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Vince Young has more 4th quarter comebacks than Eli. Remember when Eli and Vince faced off or do I have to bust out the highlight reel?
Was Eli playing on defense? Is it his fault that his defense commited personal fouls and let go of VY on 4th down? When a team blows a 21 pt lead it's the defenses fault.

You can't call a player a failure after 2 years of work. It's stupid, give it time. Peyton led the league in INTs as late as his 4th year.

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Old 04-08-2007, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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yea and he had freaking Tim Carter and Bob Whitfield. Plus a crap defense. When the team was healthy, he was a pro bowl caliber QB.

And you have JP Losman over Eli???? what a joke. Eli took a team with the 4th worst team 2004 draft into a perennial post season contender in just one year. Teams didnt stack 8 in the box against the G-Men. And Tiki was underutilized in the passing game, as was Shockey. And since when is Plaxico just a great player? I like the guy but he is a borderline #1 reciever. Theres probably 20 better WRs in the NFL. Yet people say how great Eli's recievers are.
Well....Plax has made Eli look much better than he is on many occasions, catching balls that other recievers would not have. And if we are mentioning weapons, it's more than just WRs that factor into the equation. If Eli's bad line and defense arent going to count against him, than Losman's shouldnt count against him either, because his are arguably worse than Eli's. And as for offensive weapons, Eli had Burress, but how could you just write off Shockey and Tiki too?

I'm not saying Losman is better, because I don't think he is, but you can't make arguments that could be used the exact same way to support JP.
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Old 04-08-2007, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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both are great classes, but it is still way to early to tell since the qb's from '06 still havent played a whole season

eli compared to elway? lol... Cutler is more Elway like, being they both have rocket arms
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Old 04-08-2007, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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Well....Plax has made Eli look much better than he is on many occasions, catching balls that other recievers would not have.
Plax is a red zone threat because he is so tall... Just because you see him making a TD catch on Sportscenter a lot doesnt make him great. He also has a tendency to make things look more difficult then they should be

Not knocking the guy, but he doesnt run great routes and doesn't get enough separation, in addition to his taking plays off.
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Old 04-08-2007, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
Plax is a red zone threat because he is so tall... Just because you see him making a TD catch on Sportscenter a lot doesnt make him great. He also has a tendency to make things look more difficult then they should be

Not knocking the guy, but he doesnt run great routes and doesn't get enough separation, in addition to his taking plays off.
I've seen him play other times that just on sportscenter you know....what about Eli's other weapons though? You mean to say, being the avid Giants fan you are, that his other weapons have never made him look better than he is? He's never been bailed out by Shockey, or dumped off a 2 yard pass to Tiki that he turend into a 20+ yard play?
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Old 04-08-2007, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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yea and he had freaking Tim Carter and Bob Whitfield. Plus a crap defense. When the team was healthy, he was a pro bowl caliber QB.

And you have JP Losman over Eli???? what a joke. Eli took a team with the 4th worst team 2004 draft into a perennial post season contender in just one year. Teams didnt stack 8 in the box against the G-Men. And Tiki was underutilized in the passing game, as was Shockey. And since when is Plaxico just a great player? I like the guy but he is a borderline #1 reciever. Theres probably 20 better WRs in the NFL. Yet people say how great Eli's recievers are.



JP Losman is a perrenial loser, with one decent year (yet Eli has had a better season every single year). His team was considerably better then the Giants when he was drafted, yet he hasnt even sniffed the playoffs.


Comparing the 2 is an insult to all intelligent football fans, as well as an insult to Eli Manning and the New York Giants.
JP Losman a perennial loser? He only played 1 and a half seasons. 7-9 in a season where the problems were clearly running and stopping the run, not Losman. He showed good leadership skill, developed great chemistry with his targets and helped Josh Reed to finally not be hated by his own fans. He improved the team from last year and improved as a player. He lead comebacks and escaped pressure. He throws a great deep ball and really got his short stuff going with Royal, Reed, and Evans. Bad decisions and forced passes will occur, sure, and he still has a bit of a problem handling the ball, but the way you talk up Eli to be so far above him is what is truly insulting toward a guy that is clearly escalating to being a very good QB.
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Old 04-08-2007, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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I think Cutler is comparable to Farve
Eli does not equal Elway maybe Ben and Elway
I give Young = Mcnair or McNabb but still to early to tell for 06


Eli would be good if he wasnt to scared to take a hit, same goes for Ben the first year he didnt mind stepping up and taking a hit or the second year. After the accedint he would turn away or not step up into his throws resulting in pick.
Eli same he turns away to avoid hits when throwin and he doesnt step up to throw the ball and take a hit.
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Old 04-08-2007, 09:41 PM    (permalink
skinzzfan25
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
yea and he had freaking Tim Carter and Bob Whitfield. Plus a crap defense. When the team was healthy, he was a pro bowl caliber QB.

And you have JP Losman over Eli???? what a joke. Eli took a team with the 4th worst team 2004 draft into a perennial post season contender in just one year. Teams didnt stack 8 in the box against the G-Men. And Tiki was underutilized in the passing game, as was Shockey. And since when is Plaxico just a great player? I like the guy but he is a borderline #1 reciever. Theres probably 20 better WRs in the NFL. Yet people say how great Eli's recievers are.



JP Losman is a perrenial loser, with one decent year (yet Eli has had a better season every single year). His team was considerably better then the Giants when he was drafted, yet he hasnt even sniffed the playoffs.


Comparing the 2 is an insult to all intelligent football fans, as well as an insult to Eli Manning and the New York Giants.


Losman didn't have any sort of line or protection. If the two QBs were to switch teams, the Giants would be better. Losman has more poise and skill than Eli. Just he had barley and weapons to use, and now he pretty much has nobody outside Evans. So of course Eli will probably have a better year than Losman, but that's only because the Bills are in a rebuilding stage.

Let's see how well Eli does this year without Tiki. If you hit Eli once, you can get inside his mind for the whole entire game, and every defense knows that.
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Old 04-08-2007, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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I've seen him play other times that just on sportscenter you know....what about Eli's other weapons though? You mean to say, being the avid Giants fan you are, that his other weapons have never made him look better than he is? He's never been bailed out by Shockey, or dumped off a 2 yard pass to Tiki that he turend into a 20+ yard play?

Shockey steps up in big spots. The problem with Shockey is that he was severely underutilized last year. He was used entirely too much on blocking.

He averaged about 40 yards a game receiving. Thats not really great, especially considering the pass happy offense the Giants had going last year.

Toomer is a nice #2 option. But he was injured last year and like I said, Eli was playing on a pro bowl level before Toomers injury (although Pettigout was lost for the season the same game)

And there was NO 3rd reciever on the Giants. Sinorice Moss was injured all year and was a rookie. We were relying on Tim Carter, who shouldnt even make an NFL roster....

Tiki Barber is a nice player, and a compliment to the passing game. I give you that one. But Tiki didnt really make the big play off of a pass. he had only 2 receptions that gained 20 yards. And the long was 28 yards. Plus teams didnt put 8 in the box against us so Tiki didnt help in that regard.
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