2004 QB Class or 2006 QB Class? - Page 4

bigbluedefense · 04-08-2007, 10:02 PM

GRF, if you weren't a Giants fan, Id negative rep you every morning before I brush my teeth.

JK17 · 04-08-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

Shockey steps up in big spots. The problem with Shockey is that he was severely underutilized last year. He was used entirely too much on blocking.

He averaged about 40 yards a game receiving. Thats not really great, especially considering the pass happy offense the Giants had going last year.

Toomer is a nice #2 option. But he was injured last year and like I said, Eli was playing on a pro bowl level before Toomers injury (although Pettigout was lost for the season the same game)

And there was NO 3rd reciever on the Giants. Sinorice Moss was injured all year and was a rookie. We were relying on Tim Carter, who shouldnt even make an NFL roster....

Tiki Barber is a nice player, and a compliment to the passing game. I give you that one. But Tiki didnt really make the big play off of a pass. he had only 2 receptions that gained 20 yards. And the long was 28 yards. Plus teams didnt put 8 in the box against us so Tiki didnt help in that regard.

All of that though is a hell of a lot more than what Losman had in Buffalo....

BuffaloDraftGeek · 04-08-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

yea and he had freaking Tim Carter and Bob Whitfield. Plus a crap defense. When the team was healthy, he was a pro bowl caliber QB.

And you have JP Losman over Eli???? what a joke. Eli took a team with the 4th worst team 2004 draft into a perennial post season contender in just one year. Teams didnt stack 8 in the box against the G-Men. And Tiki was underutilized in the passing game, as was Shockey. And since when is Plaxico just a great player? I like the guy but he is a borderline #1 reciever. Theres probably 20 better WRs in the NFL. Yet people say how great Eli's recievers are.

JP Losman is a perrenial loser, with one decent year (yet Eli has had a better season every single year). His team was considerably better then the Giants when he was drafted, yet he hasnt even sniffed the playoffs.

Comparing the 2 is an insult to all intelligent football fans, as well as an insult to Eli Manning and the New York Giants.

Dude, take off your giants blue colored glasses. Eli was BAD last year, bad to the point he almost got benched. He had a QB rating under 80. He didn't take his team anywhere, he lost games for them.

Losman took his team on numerous game winning drives, and proved to be the QB of the future for the bills.

Put it this way. If Losman plays the way he did last year next year, he'll still have a job in 08. If eli plays the way he did last year next year, you can guarentee the giants will be bringing in a new QB.

BuffaloDraftGeek · 04-08-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinzzfan25

Losman didn't have any sort of line or protection. If the two QBs were to switch teams, the Giants would be better. Losman has more poise and skill than Eli. Just he had barley and weapons to use, and now he pretty much has nobody outside Evans. So of course Eli will probably have a better year than Losman, but that's only because the Bills are in a rebuilding stage.

Let's see how well Eli does this year without Tiki. If you hit Eli once, you can get inside his mind for the whole entire game, and every defense knows that.

psht, even with less tallent around him, Losman had a better year last year than Eli...

bigbluedefense · 04-08-2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloDraftGeek

Dude, take off your giants blue colored glasses. Eli was BAD last year, bad to the point he almost got benched. He had a QB rating under 80. He didn't take his team anywhere, he lost games for them.

Losman took his team on numerous game winning drives, and proved to be the QB of the future for the bills.

Put it this way. If Losman plays the way he did last year next year, he'll still have a job in 08. If eli plays the way he did last year next year, you can guarentee the giants will be bringing in a new QB.

Eli wasn't that bad. Come on, almost benched? No way. People exaggerate Eli sooooo much because he's under a microscope in NY.

People cite Alex Smith as having a great 2nd year when having 16 TDs, and 16 INTs.

Imagine if Eli put up those #s? People would kill him.

Eli is not nearly as bad as his haters will lead you to believe. Everything he does is exaggerated 10 fold because of the market he plays for. I guarantee you that if Lossman was transplanted into NY with his same exact #s, people would kill him even more.

And thats coming from a guy who liked JP this year. I think he was very solid.

JK17 · 04-08-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Eli wasn't that bad. Come on, almost benched? No way. People exaggerate Eli sooooo much because he's under a microscope in NY.

People cite Alex Smith as having a great 2nd year when having 16 TDs, and 16 INTs.

Imagine if Eli put up those #s? People would kill him.

Eli is not nearly as bad as his haters will lead you to believe. Everything he does is exaggerated 10 fold because of the market he plays for. I guarantee you that if Lossman was transplanted into NY with his same exact #s, people would kill him even more.

And thats coming from a guy who liked JP this year. I think he was very solid.

Yeah I would agree moreso with this view of Eli. He wasn't a bad QB, but he did struggle a little more than was expected for his third year. Reports of him being benched were mostly a minority of people who know very little about football, and just wanted to see Lorenzen in there.

Was he bad? No
Was he as good as some people (GRF in particular) make him out to be? Hell no.

bigbluedefense · 04-08-2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK17

Yeah I would agree moreso with this view of Eli. He wasn't a bad QB, but he did struggle a little more than was expected for his third year. Reports of him being benched were mostly a minority of people who know very little about football, and just wanted to see Lorenzen in there.

Was he bad? No
Was he as good as some people (GRF in particular) make him out to be? Hell no.

Yup. He was middle tier I would say. Not what we expected in his 3rd year. But he wasn't horrible like some say. I think thats a fair assessment of him.

Oh, and don't listen to GRF's homerific statements.

GiantRutgersFan · 04-08-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloDraftGeek

Dude, take off your giants blue colored glasses. Eli was BAD last year, bad to the point he almost got benched. He had a QB rating under 80. He didn't take his team anywhere, he lost games for them.

Yep. thats why the G-Men extended his contract for 3 years a month ago? They wanted to bench him for a 270 lb rookie backup. furthermore, the Giants went out and signed a backup just in case Eli doesnt produce this year..... oh wait, no they didnt. you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

And he didnt take the team anywhere???? how about the playoffs? And what games did he lose for them? Seriously, I wanna know.

Stop being a homer and a hater.

JK17 · 04-08-2007, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

Stop being a homer and a hater.

I laugh every time I see things like that from you.

doingthisinsteadofwork · 04-08-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

Stop being a homer and a hater.

YOur still argueing about this?
YOu actually need to accept the fact that Eli is a terribly inconsistent QB and move on.

bigbluedefense · 04-08-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan

Yep. thats why the G-Men extended his contract for 3 years a month ago? They wanted to bench him for a 270 lb rookie backup. furthermore, the Giants went out and signed a backup just in case Eli doesnt produce this year..... oh wait, no they didnt. you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

And he didnt take the team anywhere???? how about the playoffs? And what games did he lose for them? Seriously, I wanna know.

Stop being a homer and a hater.

Seriously, what are you trying to accomplish with these threads? Why not just wait and see what happens? Youre making the rest of us look foolish. Don't force your opinions down people's throats. Just sit back, enjoy the ride, and if it works out the way you envision, then yeah say what you want afterwards.

But calling Eli the next Elway is so beyond any rational that you should expect the responses youre getting.

draftguru151 · 04-08-2007, 10:20 PM

He is actually bringing up some decent points to the ridiculous things others are saying.

bigbluedefense · 04-08-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by draftguru151

He is actually bringing up some decent points to the ridiculous things others are saying.

Yeah he is. But after being here for a year now, one thing Ive learned is that youre never gonna change the opinions of people on 2 subject matters.

1. Michael Vick
2. Eli Manning

Those 2 guys, people have their own personal views on, and no matter what you say to disprove them, will never sway their opinion. So why even bother?

Jesus could come down today and proclaim Eli the next messiah, and he'd still have haters. Theres no point trying to argue with people on this subject. Every now and then I will because I get so frustrated with the ignorance being spewed, but Im trying to refrain from wasting font on such an overdiscussed subject matter.

JK17 · 04-08-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Yeah he is. But after being here for a year now, one thing Ive learned is that youre never gonna change the opinions of people on 2 subject matters.

1. Michael Vick
2. Eli Manning

Those 2 guys, people have their own personal views on, and no matter what you say to disprove them, will never sway their opinion. So why even bother?

Jesus could come down today and proclaim Eli the next messiah, and he'd still have haters. Theres no point trying to argue with people on this subject. Every now and then I will because I get so frustrated with the ignorance being spewed, but Im trying to refrain from wasting font on such an overdiscussed subject matter.

Hey thats not true. I joined this forum hating Eli Manning and thinking he was the epitome of bad QB. Some of the posters on here help changed my views on that. I don't think he's the second coming or anything but I've certainly taken off my colored glasses regarding Eli. Although I do know what you mean.

Dam8610 · 04-08-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief49er

"Eli Manning....... John Elway"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Eli Manning sucks dude!

11 G 123 Comp 259 Att 47.5% 1663 yards 6.4 YPA 7 TD 14 INT
15 G 214 Comp 380 Att 56.3% 2598 yards 6.8 YPA 18 TD 15 INT
16 G 327 Comp 605 Att 54.0% 3891 yards 6.4 YPA 22 TD 23 INT

vs.

09 G 95 Comp 197 Att 48.2% 1043 yards 5.3 YPA 6 TD 9 INT
16 G 294 Comp 557 Att 52.8% 3762 yards 6.8 YPA 24 TD 17 INT
16 G 301 Comp 522 Att 57.7% 3244 yards 6.2 YPA 24 TD 18 INT

Which one is Eli, which is Elway, and which is better?

bigbluedefense · 04-08-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610

11 G 123 Comp 259 Att 47.5% 1663 yards 6.4 YPA 7 TD 14 INT
15 G 214 Comp 380 Att 56.3% 2598 yards 6.8 YPA 18 TD 15 INT
16 G 327 Comp 605 Att 54.0% 3891 yards 6.4 YPA 22 TD 23 INT

vs.

09 G 95 Comp 197 Att 48.2% 1043 yards 5.3 YPA 6 TD 9 INT
16 G 294 Comp 557 Att 52.8% 3762 yards 6.8 YPA 24 TD 17 INT
16 G 301 Comp 522 Att 57.7% 3244 yards 6.2 YPA 24 TD 18 INT

Which one is Eli, which is Elway, and which is better?

2nd one is Eli, and clearly, the #s say he's better.

The argument can be made yes. But its waaay too premature.

I bite my tongue, and wait and see. I don't want to sound like an idiot and prematurely say this or that.

doingthisinsteadofwork · 04-08-2007, 10:33 PM

To answer your post Elway.

JK17 · 04-08-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610

11 G 123 Comp 259 Att 47.5% 1663 yards 6.4 YPA 7 TD 14 INT
15 G 214 Comp 380 Att 56.3% 2598 yards 6.8 YPA 18 TD 15 INT
16 G 327 Comp 605 Att 54.0% 3891 yards 6.4 YPA 22 TD 23 INT

vs.

9 G 95 Comp 197 Att 48.2% 1043 yards 5.3 YPA 6 TD 9 INT
16 G 294 Comp 557 Att 52.8% 3762 yards 6.8 YPA 24 TD 17 INT
16 G 301 Comp 522 Att 57.7% 3244 yards 6.2 YPA 24 TD 18 INT

Which one is Eli, which is Elway, and which is better?

It's been brought up before, the second one is Eli, the second one is better, but comparing Eli to Elway is more than just numbers. I think Elway had a career QB rating in the 79.9 ballpark? A lot of QBs had better numbers, but there are other things in a comparison.

Anyway, I think this is conversation is really starting to go in circles again so maybe its time to take a step back.

doingthisinsteadofwork · 04-08-2007, 10:35 PM

or to just lock this stupid thread.

bored of education · 04-08-2007, 10:40 PM

While having less weapons around him I'd rather have Losman instead of Eli.

Dam8610 · 04-08-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

2nd one is Eli, and clearly, the #s say he's better.

The argument can be made yes. But its waaay too premature.

I bite my tongue, and wait and see. I don't want to sound like an idiot and prematurely say this or that.

Well obviously it's a bit early to say that Eli is the next Elway, but at the same time, to say the comparison is ridiculous is pretty stupid, since it's actually a pretty accurate comparison IMO.

bored of education · 04-08-2007, 10:41 PM

Eli is an average to above average QB. He has many flaws, but the thing i don't see consistantly is progression

bored of education · 04-08-2007, 10:43 PM

Too many games where it looks like he is Roookie ELI, next game WOW good Eli, then rookie, then rookie, then rookie, then good eli.

I think this year will be a true testament of his worth.

He was drafted to be less of a project than Losman and Losman has proven progression.

Both have tough years next year.

Both are very good young QB's.

doingthisinsteadofwork · 04-08-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Well obviously it's a bit early to say that Eli is the next Elway, but at the same time, to say the comparison is ridiculous is pretty stupid, since it's actually a pretty accurate comparison IMO.

not when it can only be based off stats.

Ewing · 04-09-2007, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhoe20

Was Eli playing on defense? Is it his fault that his defense commited personal fouls and let go of VY on 4th down? When a team blows a 21 pt lead it's the defenses fault.

He wasn't playing defense but he sure as **** gave up two lame ducks to Pacman Jones.