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Old 04-15-2007, 07:28 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I love the 43, John Fox has had 5 years, in 4 of those we've had a top 10 defense. Can't complain.
I LOVE Fox's scheme. He runs one of the few 4-3 schemes I like. Brilliant scheme. Absolutely love it.

Its not much different from the Bill Parcells 3-4. It uses many of the same principles, just out of a 4-3 front opposed to a 2 gap 3-4.
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Old 04-15-2007, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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I love the 3-4. You have so much more versatility and suprise in the 3-4.
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Old 04-15-2007, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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46 aesthetically, a la the Ravens. Realistically I could care less.
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Old 04-16-2007, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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I can tell from reading this thread that a lot of people don't understand the basic principles of the 3-4 or how and why it works.
They don't undestand that there are 2, 4-3 defenses in vogue today as well. the Basic 4-3 which lines up head on with the OL and tries to be strong against both the run and the pass. Then there is the Cover 2 defense which sells out the run in order to attack the passer. It's DLmen don't try to play head up on a defender, the attack the gaps. Both of these 4-3 defenses use a completely different type of DLmen, LBers and DB's. They are completely different in their total approach with very few simularities.
The 3-4 also uses a completely different set of player types in their front 7 most of whom couldn't play in a basic 4-3.
People who talk like it is a 4-3 vs a 3-4 are off target. their is the basic 4-3, the Cover 2 and the 3-4 defenses being used today and they all use different philosophies to play defense including in a lot of cases, totally different types of players.
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Old 04-16-2007, 01:03 AM    (permalink
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I LOVE Fox's scheme. He runs one of the few 4-3 schemes I like. Brilliant scheme. Absolutely love it.

Its not much different from the Bill Parcells 3-4. It uses many of the same principles, just out of a 4-3 front opposed to a 2 gap 3-4.
John Fox is an underrated defensive mind, IMO. I never thought he'd be a successful HC because he's got "brilliant D-coordinator for life" written all over him, but he's done well with what he's had. Julius Peppers and at one time Kris Jenkins sure helped.
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Old 04-16-2007, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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3-4 all the way.

4 of the last 5 SBs were won with 3-4 defenses.
Um, you do realize the Pats take up 3 of those 5? Also, the Bucs and Colts use the 4-3. So of the past 4 teams to win the Super Bowl, I'm seeing 2 of each (Pats and Steelers for 3-4 and Colts and Bucs for 4-3).

The Ravens of 2000 use both (so they cancel out), and I'm pretty sure the Rams of '99 used the 4-3, didn't they? And didn't the Broncos and Packers of the late 90s?

Either way, you're statistic is both wrong and irrelevant.

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Old 04-16-2007, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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Actually, 3 of the last 5 Super Bowl winners are 3-4 teams. The other 2? Tampa 2 teams.
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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That would be a sick defense.
A.J. Hawk is a lot better than DeMeco Ryans. The only reason DeMeco Ryans had a few more tackles than A.J. is because he had no one to compete with for tackles. A.J. Hawk had to compete with Nick Barnett, a really good linebacker.
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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Um, you do realize the Pats take up 3 of those 5? Also, the Bucs and Colts use the 4-3. So of the past 4 teams to win the Super Bowl, I'm seeing 2 of each (Pats and Steelers for 3-4 and Colts and Bucs for 4-3).

The Ravens of 2000 use both (so they cancel out), and I'm pretty sure the Rams of '99 used the 4-3, didn't they? And didn't the Broncos and Pats of the late 90s?

Either way, you're statistic is both wrong and irrelevant.
The Patriots of the late 90s were bad other than the team in 96 that went to the Super Bowl and LOST to the Packers.
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Old 04-16-2007, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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I LOVE Fox's scheme. He runs one of the few 4-3 schemes I like. Brilliant scheme. Absolutely love it.

Its not much different from the Bill Parcells 3-4. It uses many of the same principles, just out of a 4-3 front opposed to a 2 gap 3-4.
Do you play for the Panthers? I did not think so! So stop saying "we" did this...
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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Um, you do realize the Pats take up 3 of those 5? Also, the Bucs and Colts use the 4-3. So of the past 4 teams to win the Super Bowl, I'm seeing 2 of each (Pats and Steelers for 3-4 and Colts and Bucs for 4-3).

The Ravens of 2000 use both (so they cancel out), and I'm pretty sure the Rams of '99 used the 4-3, didn't they? And didn't the Broncos and Pats of the late 90s?

Either way, you're statistic is both wrong and irrelevant.
Point being? Every year is different. So it is relevant. And the only Tampa 2 team to win a SB with a defense first philosophy was the Bucs. Indy's defense was not great by any means. Catching a hot streak in the playoffs doesn't count.

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Do you play for the Panthers? I did not think so! So stop saying "we" did this...
When did I say "we" when referring to the Panthers?. Work on those grammar skills kiddo...
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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John Fox is an underrated defensive mind, IMO. I never thought he'd be a successful HC because he's got "brilliant D-coordinator for life" written all over him, but he's done well with what he's had. Julius Peppers and at one time Kris Jenkins sure helped.
To me, what makes a great defensive system/coordinator is a guy who runs a scheme that has the ability to succeed against everything.

Adjustability. A viable defense to combat every form of offense. One that doesn't live and die on one principle. Fox has that with his 4-3. Its not too blitz happy, its not too passive, it can play both man and zone, its adjustable. It can do one thing one week at a high level, then turn around and do something completely different the next week, but still do it at a high level.

And its not just with Carolina. I saw him do it for plenty of years in New York. Granted he had Strahan at his prime then, which is better than Peppers, but still. Sometimes I overanalyze and become anal about formations etc.

A great defense, in any formation, is ready for any offense. Thats what it comes down to. Now whether you execute that with a 3-4, 4-3, Cover 2, etc, it doesn't matter. All that matters is if you can sustain that goal.
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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[quote=bigbluedefense;302993
My personal favorite scheme is the BP 2 gap 3-4. I won't go into detail, Ive done it plenty of times before.
[/QUOTE]

BP doesn't mean bill parcells, does it? If so BP doesn't run a 2 gap ;)
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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BP doesn't mean bill parcells, does it? If so BP doesn't run a 2 gap ;)
;)


Before I sound like a blatant homer, lemme talk about some other schemes that I really like, not affiliated with the Giants in any way.

Jacksonville's 4-3: This scheme is generally a Cover 2, but its not a true Cover 2. Ive never had a problem with Cover 2 the play, just the base scheme of lighter quicker guys and DEs with no gap assingment. This defense is physical and tough, and simply outmuscles you. Its simple in nature, but its phsyical style makes it great. Plus, it plays a decent amount of man when necessary.

This isn't necessarily a scheme I like, but moreso a roster. This team, built a 4-3 defense in the same mold that I prefer. I like to call it 4-3 BIG, but thats not a real term. Thats what I refer to when discussing the 2000 Ravens/current Jags style of defense.

Pittsburgh's 3-4: although it could get too blitz happy. We saw LeBeau's scheme get exposed once teams learned how to block the zone blitz. I like his plays more as situational play calls, he's been blitzing a little too much recently.

Rob Ryan's 4-3: Basically the same things I like about Fox's scheme, I like about Ryans. Great scheme

Denvers 4-3: A little too much blitzing, but with the personnell in place, you can't blame em

Greg Williams: Similar to Fox and Ryan

GB's Pseudo Cover 1/2: I need to see more personnell in place before I can evaluate it better, but so far, I like it.

Eh, thats pretty much it. I would say Rex Ryan, but seriously...how hard is it to call plays for Baltimore's defense? I could call 4-3 Cover 2 against a 5 WR empty set, and it would still work. Not difficult when you have that kind of personnell.

Oh, and for the record, I don't like every 3-4 scheme. I don't like Nolan's 3-4. Way too bland. Too much Cover 3. He doesn't run it in SF, Im referring to his days in Baltimore.
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Denvers 4-3: A little too much blitzing, but with the personnell in place, you can't blame em
Well, they talked about last year when Denver was on that early season tear that they had become a soft coverage team instead of blitz-happy like '05.
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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Well, they talked about last year when Denver was on that early season tear that they had become a soft coverage team instead of blitz-happy like '05.
Yeah, they could use some front 4 pressure. Thats why I don't blame them for having to blitz so much. They have to, or theyre dead in the water.

I don't get why they stopped. I guess their DC felt that teams started picking up on their blitzes? Why not just introduce some new ones into the puzzle then? *shrug*
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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The Patriots of the late 90s were bad other than the team in 96 that went to the Super Bowl and LOST to the Packers.
My bad, I meant PACKERS not PATs....
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Old 04-21-2007, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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;)


Before I sound like a blatant homer, lemme talk about some other schemes that I really like, not affiliated with the Giants in any way.

Jacksonville's 4-3: This scheme is generally a Cover 2, but its not a true Cover 2. Ive never had a problem with Cover 2 the play, just the base scheme of lighter quicker guys and DEs with no gap assingment. This defense is physical and tough, and simply outmuscles you. Its simple in nature, but its phsyical style makes it great. Plus, it plays a decent amount of man when necessary.

This isn't necessarily a scheme I like, but moreso a roster. This team, built a 4-3 defense in the same mold that I prefer. I like to call it 4-3 BIG, but thats not a real term. Thats what I refer to when discussing the 2000 Ravens/current Jags style of defense.

Pittsburgh's 3-4: although it could get too blitz happy. We saw LeBeau's scheme get exposed once teams learned how to block the zone blitz. I like his plays more as situational play calls, he's been blitzing a little too much recently.

Rob Ryan's 4-3: Basically the same things I like about Fox's scheme, I like about Ryans. Great scheme

Denvers 4-3: A little too much blitzing, but with the personnell in place, you can't blame em

Greg Williams: Similar to Fox and Ryan

GB's Pseudo Cover 1/2: I need to see more personnell in place before I can evaluate it better, but so far, I like it.

Eh, thats pretty much it. I would say Rex Ryan, but seriously...how hard is it to call plays for Baltimore's defense? I could call 4-3 Cover 2 against a 5 WR empty set, and it would still work. Not difficult when you have that kind of personnell.

Oh, and for the record, I don't like every 3-4 scheme. I don't like Nolan's 3-4. Way too bland. Too much Cover 3. He doesn't run it in SF, Im referring to his days in Baltimore.
Green Bay's 4-3 Cover 2 Man is by far the best defensive scheme in the NFL.
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Old 04-21-2007, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Green Bay's 4-3 Cover 2 Man is by far the best defensive scheme in the NFL.
Plan on giving any reasoning, or are you just gonna leave this as a baseless assertion?
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Old 04-21-2007, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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The hybrid of flipping back and fourth that the Ravens run.
that's my favorite as well....and its my team's
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Old 04-21-2007, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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Green Bay's 4-3 Cover 2 Man is by far the best defensive scheme in the NFL.
I would like to hear a more in depth analysis of this scheme. Im currently not exactly sure how it works, I don't have any Packer games DVR'ed that I can go back and break down.

I have somewhat of an idea, and I like what I saw so far, but a more in depth analysis of it would be appreciated.
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Old 04-22-2007, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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if i have to pick i would say 3-4 because anytime that i can get more LBer's on the field IMO the better.
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Old 04-22-2007, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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rainbeaukid2 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rainbeaukid2 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rainbeaukid2 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rainbeaukid2 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rainbeaukid2 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rainbeaukid2 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rainbeaukid2 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rainbeaukid2 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rainbeaukid2 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rainbeaukid2 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rainbeaukid2 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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i personally like the 3-4 better because of all the different blitzes that can come out of it
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Old 04-22-2007, 01:33 AM    (permalink
MP123
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MP123 smells like sex panther.
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I like the 3-4 because I think there's better athletes. Ex. Shawne Merriman and Demarcus Ware.
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Old 04-26-2007, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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I Like the 4-3.
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