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Old 04-18-2007, 06:56 PM    (permalink
THav916
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Default A few questions

I haven't posted in a while and had a few questions and knew I'd get them answered here.

-What or who's pro days did Tomlin attend?

-Where do you guys get the 10 yard splits from the 40's and statistics like those? Is there a link?

-I've seen Mr Stiller's thought on Jamaal Anderson playing OLB in our 3-4, not DE. I thought about his points and think they are very valid. Does anyone disagree and think he could be a 3-4 DE and have reasons other than, "He's big?" Playing the DE in a 3-4 seems a lot more complicated than simply having the size. With that said, is it possible for him to gain 10-20 lbs and be a 3-4 DE IF THE STEELERS WANTED (not if you wanted)?

-Take all offensive players out of the equation but include all defensive players, what would your top 5 to 10 list look like in order of who would be perfect for the Steelers. If Gaines Adams is first, please don't go too much into detail because I think it's pretty obvious why. But I'm interested in hearing how you guys would rate and compare Branch, Carriker, Okoye, Anderson, Moss, Timmons, Beason, all corners, etc for the Steelers. Not only is there a chance any of them could fall, but you never ever know about a trade up, so I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts, not even about a trade, but just about the players fitting our team.

-My friends and I are doing a mock draft. Timmons is gone. So are Carriker, Branch, Okoye and Anderson. Without wondering who took Timmons or anything like that and assuming we COULDNT trade down, what would you guys look to do? Levi Brown and Staley are available. Beason, Moss, Revis, Hall as well.

-I'm sure I'll have some other questions but I'm really lookin forward to hearin a wide variety of answers for these questions.
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Old 04-18-2007, 08:14 PM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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I haven't posted in a while and had a few questions and knew I'd get them answered here.

Welcome back Thav!!

-What or who's pro days did Tomlin attend?

Off the top of my head.. LSU & Arkansas.. LeBeau visited PSU, and I Forget who visited GVSU.. Other than that it's been pretty difficult to track them down

-Where do you guys get the 10 yard splits from the 40's and statistics like those? Is there a link?

I'm guessing NFL.com in the player profiles, I use nfldraftscout.com where I have a membership. I think I read too much.

-I've seen Mr Stiller's thought on Jamaal Anderson playing OLB in our 3-4, not DE. I thought about his points and think they are very valid. Does anyone disagree and think he could be a 3-4 DE and have reasons other than, "He's big?" Playing the DE in a 3-4 seems a lot more complicated than simply having the size. With that said, is it possible for him to gain 10-20 lbs and be a 3-4 DE IF THE STEELERS WANTED (not if you wanted)?

If They think that Anderson could progress into a 3-4 DE, sure. However his weaknesses don't fair well for 34 DE. He's weak against the run and he has trouble with double teams. At 34DE, thats his job. IMO, if you want a 34 DE. Draft a Tackle or a DE thats a Hold the point type (Carriker) But Carriker IMO is less talented than Aaron Smith and we got Smith in Round 4. Keisel is more dynamic as a dual threat (Against the run/pass) and he was a 7th rounder. From what I hear Nua is progressing solidly and could end up working his way through the rotation.

Back to Anderson. He's too dynamic a Passrusher to put in a hold-the-point or run stopping role. If Pittsburgh wants him there... I Don't have a choice. But With his speed/agility/ability, I don't see why he can't slide to OLB and DE in a 4-3. As for Adding weight. He's still growing into his body, I think he could add 10-20 lbs (He started already, he added 3 lbs of muscle and his body fat went down 3% since the combine and his pro-day) and not lose a step. I think he could be a juggernaut DE, but I Think it's either 4-3 DE or 34 OLB. 34 DE would be a waste of a 1st round pick.


-Take all offensive players out of the equation but include all defensive players, what would your top 5 to 10 list look like in order of who would be perfect for the Steelers. If Gaines Adams is first, please don't go too much into detail because I think it's pretty obvious why. But I'm interested in hearing how you guys would rate and compare Branch, Carriker, Okoye, Anderson, Moss, Timmons, Beason, all corners, etc for the Steelers. Not only is there a chance any of them could fall, but you never ever know about a trade up, so I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts, not even about a trade, but just about the players fitting our team.


1) Gaines Adams - Obviously
2) Jamaal Anderson - Read above.
3) Darrelle Revis - Well This is tough. Without a premier pass rusher, I like Revis. Revis has all-world ability, coupled with no-fear tackling and he's great against the run. Adds PR Ability. I think he and Ike with Bmac will be a staple of a future tough secondary. However from what I've been reading of Tomlin and Ike, He's enamored and thinks with some positive coaching/reinforcement.. that Ike could be a top 5 CB. In 2005 he was a pair of hands away... don't forget he did intercept a key pass in the SB.
4) Justin Harrell - a tough ass 43 DT from Tennessee who is athletic and good enough to be a dominant 3-4 DE. Could be the Penetrator when we switch to a 4-3. I rate him higher than Carriker because honestly, Carriker is a one trick Pony and I don't see Upside. Scouts are questioning Branchs work Ethic... No one questions Harrells work ethic or toughness. He played the Florida game with the torn Bicep muscle.
5) Alan Branch - Perhaps with the right Coaching he could be a huge 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT. However Weight and ethic Questions
6) Jon Beason - Lack of Size and Big Plays, but He's a leader, has ton of heart. I have a feeling Beason is being looked at as a future 4-3 or 3-4 ILB. He has the speed to cover deep and he's a hard hitter. I honestly think that if Anderson doesn't hit 15, this is the pick. I don't think it's a coincidence that he is being brought in over the 19th and 20th, when the team is here. Perhaps to meet his future teammates? Thats the speculation right as of now.
7) Timmons - Tomlin was supposedly impressed even though he was out of shape at his pro day. I view Timmons as a 2nd rounder. I don't like his work ethic this far as being out of shape. People are calling him the next Greg Lloyd. I see the next Alonzo Jackson - Nano. I hope this isn't the pick.
8) Chris Houston - Definition of Workout Warrior. Has great #'s but reminds me of Ahmad Carroll. Though, Houston has an impressive resume of players he shut down.
9) Anthony Spencer - I don't think We like Moss, Spencer we're genuinely interested in. He reminds most people of an improved version of Shaun Phillips.
10)Carriker - See former 4th round pick Aaron Smith. Carriker has no pass rush capability, and marginal "Big Play" Ability. I don't see why everyone is raving. I do know many a DE that could have abused Ryan Harris in the Senior Bowl (Gosselin has him as the 5th or 6th ranked DE). Ryan Harris is being looked at as a OG.

As for Okoye and Moss. Okoye visited, but 2 things have to happen.. 1 he has to make it at 15, and 2 we have to dedicate to being a 4-3 team. I don't believe Okoye is a 3-4 DE. He's too short and would have to work on being a NT, which takes away his best attribute. His penetration in a 4-3 DL. Some say Warren Sapp... Some say Bust. I think he has great potential at being only 19 years old... However, I don't see any potential for us.

As for Moss, I don't think we have interest, But I'd certainly take him over Timmons or Carriker.


-My friends and I are doing a mock draft. Timmons is gone. So are Carriker, Branch, Okoye and Anderson. Without wondering who took Timmons or anything like that and assuming we COULDNT trade down, what would you guys look to do? Levi Brown and Staley are available. Beason, Moss, Revis, Hall as well.

Some say Levi Brown, but frankly, take his above average footwork away and you have a smaller slower weaker version of Max Starks... no thanks. He's not anything to brag about in Pass Pro, and he has a questionable motor. I'd rather have Staley, but he needs a year or 2 to develop to NFL Size. I think our most likely pick in that situation would be between Beason and Revis. Depends on if the Ike-Tomlin connection is a smoke screen or if it's true and They want Beason as their future team leader.

-I'm sure I'll have some other questions but I'm really lookin forward to hearin a wide variety of answers for these questions.

I'm sure you expected Mine :)
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Old 04-18-2007, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Mr Stiller, I expected nothing less! Thank you very much!!!

Since I've began to pick your brain, I shall continue you if you don't mind (and I have a feeling you'd be mad if I didn't). Obviously others can answer as well.

Anderson really really intrigues me. DE in the 4-3 there is no doubt. While I originally thought DE in the 3-4 as well because of his size, he could be an absolute freak as an OLB. A "bigger" Merriman, that doesn't even seem possible. Do you worry at all that he will naturally gain 10-20 lbs and grow out of OLB? Part of me worries that "we" see all the success the previous "hybrids" have had and now just assume that all players with that size, speed, talent package will be able to thrive at 3-4 OLB. I guess the part that worries me is I feel like one day a team will take a massive player to play OLB and he'll be a total bust. Anderson's background at receiver, pass rushing, 40 yard dash, 10 yard dash (I thought this was listed on your previous post, but i didnt see it, can you list it), etc, do have me more excited than ever about him. I think the other thing I love about him is I used to see him strictly as a DE in the 4-3. Now, based on how he develops and grows, one way or another, it looks like he could be utilized in the 3-4 as well.

So are you not a big fan of Moss or you just think there are no signs the Steelers like him? I'm a Florida fan and love his ability to rush the passer. I used to worry that some of these guys couldn't cover in the 3-4, but when you break it down to play to their strengths, let them loose and worry about the rest later, I still love Moss. I just checked the prospect interview list. Was he not interviewed?

I feel very similar about Timmons as well. I just don't see him having stud potential. I could be wrong, which is why I hate to totally bash a guy before we select him. But I guess I just like a different type of linebacker. Didn't Tomling also visit his pro day? Maybe I'm wrong. I wonder what Tomlin sees in him. If Timmons pans out, in the 3-4, could he be a 10 sack a year type of guy? I really want a guy that can get us double digit sacks.

I love your top 10 and especially am now intrigued with Harrell. I'm always obsessed with 3-4 DE's and enjoy reading about who can project as one. As I said earlier, it looks simple projecting based on size and speed, but so much more goes in to it. Are you still high on Ilama-Francis?

I agree with Levi Brown as well. Not a big fan. Much higher on Staley, and much rather would grab a LT of the future if we're taking one in the first round.

I like Revis more than Hall but I'm just not convinced about the need for a CB. Maybe I hold on to things too long but I still wonder about Colclough. I constantly point out that he's younger than McFadden and from a small school. He left a horrible taste in everyone's mouth last year but for the punt returning, not cornerback. I just still have hope, especially with new coaching that has a secondary background, that our three young guys can be more than solid.

Any guys in the 2nd round that might go early that you'd love to trade up for? Any opinion on Jarrett, Poz, Harrell, etc? I love getting a solid guy in the first round and then targeting a guy for the early second.

Love your thoughts on Jackie Battle, DeOssie (sp), all of the wr's, etc. I'd say keep it up, but I think that goes without saying. Ok i guess i had more comments than questions, but appreciate your thoughts and hope to see a lot more.

Last edited by THav916 : 04-18-2007 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 04-18-2007, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THav916 View Post
I haven't posted in a while and had a few questions and knew I'd get them answered here.

-What or who's pro days did Tomlin attend?

-Where do you guys get the 10 yard splits from the 40's and statistics like those? Is there a link?

-I've seen Mr Stiller's thought on Jamaal Anderson playing OLB in our 3-4, not DE. I thought about his points and think they are very valid. Does anyone disagree and think he could be a 3-4 DE and have reasons other than, "He's big?" Playing the DE in a 3-4 seems a lot more complicated than simply having the size. With that said, is it possible for him to gain 10-20 lbs and be a 3-4 DE IF THE STEELERS WANTED (not if you wanted)?

-Take all offensive players out of the equation but include all defensive players, what would your top 5 to 10 list look like in order of who would be perfect for the Steelers. If Gaines Adams is first, please don't go too much into detail because I think it's pretty obvious why. But I'm interested in hearing how you guys would rate and compare Branch, Carriker, Okoye, Anderson, Moss, Timmons, Beason, all corners, etc for the Steelers. Not only is there a chance any of them could fall, but you never ever know about a trade up, so I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts, not even about a trade, but just about the players fitting our team.

-My friends and I are doing a mock draft. Timmons is gone. So are Carriker, Branch, Okoye and Anderson. Without wondering who took Timmons or anything like that and assuming we COULDNT trade down, what would you guys look to do? Levi Brown and Staley are available. Beason, Moss, Revis, Hall as well.

-I'm sure I'll have some other questions but I'm really lookin forward to hearin a wide variety of answers for these questions.

First couple of questions Stiller handled..., Tomlin also visited FSU as far as pro days go

I think Anderson can play DE in the 3-4, but honestly I think it is a waste of his talent and pass rushing skills, I say if we pick him then we should keep the weight off of him, keep him around 275, and have him come in for pass rushing scenarios, and special teams for the first year, then have him play an Adalius Thomas role in a 3-4olb / 4-3 end if/when we go to a hybrid scheme next year.

My list would look like:
1.Adams- self explanatory
2.Anderson - can be used in a # of diff ways... is a good athlete than can contribute right away on special teams and obvious passing downs at the least
3.Okoye- I really think this guy can be a hell of a tackle next to hampton if/when we goto a 4 - 3 hybrid, can also be used at nose in obvious passing downs right away, can also play some 3-4 end, though he is more of a penetrator than a holding off the point of attack kinda guy we usually use for our 3-4 ends
4.Revis - my #1 corner in the draft, good athlete / return man, can pop as well as cover decently, is one of the taller corners in the draft
5.Aaron Ross - may seem a little unorthodox here, but he is my #2 corner next to Reivs, and the better fit for the Steelers in whats left. He is probably more athletic than Revis, but is still pretty raw, but nonetheless he can really hit and can also return, too.
6. Justin Harrell- can play both (3-4)DE/DT, is a beast and can provide depth for this year at least, and can probably come in for Hampton when he gets tired (every other play), also can play end if the Steelers are serious about moving Keisel to OLB
7. Carriker - 3-4 DE/ 4-3 T/DE(more likely), versatility is a good thing, may not be a real effective pass rusher but is just better then the rest of the players imo.
8. Branch - 4-3 T or 3-4T, really not much use for him right now honestly, doesnt have the versatility a guy like okoye or harrell has.
9. Timmons / Beason - flip a coin, imo both are not great fits for us, undersized to play 3 - 4 OLB... maybe can play inside or mike/will in the 4-3 if we ever do that
10. Hall - i think hes more a product of the michigan pass rush than anything, while hes still a good corner i just don't think hes as great as people make him out to be
11. Houston - Great #'s, possibly a guy for Tomlin to develop
12.Moss - maybe i need to see more film of him, but from what i've seen i just have not been impress
13. Spencer - isnt terrible but not worth our pick till round 2 imo... ever since watching him get schooled by UMD's tight end in the bowl game i just have not been impressed

I say Revis, at 15 i think he is the best value and also the best player for us on the board still
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:36 AM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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Mr Stiller, I expected nothing less! Thank you very much!!!

You're very welcome!

Since I've began to pick your brain, I shall continue you if you don't mind (and I have a feeling you'd be mad if I didn't). Obviously others can answer as well.

I do my best and I love sharing anything retaining to football or steelers.

Anderson really really intrigues me. DE in the 4-3 there is no doubt. While I originally thought DE in the 3-4 as well because of his size, he could be an absolute freak as an OLB. A "bigger" Merriman, that doesn't even seem possible. Do you worry at all that he will naturally gain 10-20 lbs and grow out of OLB? Part of me worries that "we" see all the success the previous "hybrids" have had and now just assume that all players with that size, speed, talent package will be able to thrive at 3-4 OLB. I guess the part that worries me is I feel like one day a team will take a massive player to play OLB and he'll be a total bust. Anderson's background at receiver, pass rushing, 40 yard dash, 10 yard dash (I thought this was listed on your previous post, but i didnt see it, can you list it), etc, do have me more excited than ever about him. I think the other thing I love about him is I used to see him strictly as a DE in the 4-3. Now, based on how he develops and grows, one way or another, it looks like he could be utilized in the 3-4 as well.

I Can see your concern and I agree. Right now for OLB I take Gaines Adams over Jamaal. But in 2 years, for the better pass rusher, I take Jamaal. I've long learned not to assume anything. I do believe that Jamaal has all the tools to be a successful LB, However the coaches know better than I. I have a feeling that if we're willing to try Keisel at OLB, Anderson is much faster the part. Plus he's more natural a pass rusher, even though he's extremely raw. Don't forget the reason that Dallas passed on Merriman for Ware? Merriman was 282 lbs on draft day. The reason I didn't list Andersons 10 yard was because he didn't run at the combine. His Pro Day #'s Are:
Height: 6053
Weight: 288
40 Yrd Dash: 4.75
20 Yrd Dash: 2.73
10 Yrd Dash: 1.59
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 22
Vertical Jump: 32 1/2
Broad Jump: 9'8"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.22
3-Cone Drill: 6.88

I see concern about the bench reps, but he has long arms, the thing that impresses me most, is the Shuttle. I've read (I believe Mayock) saying that if your Shuttle # is less than your 40 that your more explosive than fast, opposite holds true, more top gear than acceleration. Anderson has explosion, size and pass rushing prowess. I look at it this way. If Willie McGinnest, Kevin Greene, Shawne Merriman can do it... than this kid can. I don't have Greene or McGinnests #'s, but I'm sure they were no 1.59 10 yd or 4.75 40'. a 4.75 at 6'5 288lbs should be illegal. He has the size of a 3-4 DE with the speed of a 3-4 OLB (In most cases faster). If guys with much slower speed can play OLB, why can't Anderson. I'm long tired of people trying to jam square pegs in round holes and vice/versa. Tomlin is a very smart coach, if he drafts Anderson, he's going to find a way to let him make an impact. Whether we run a 3-4 Hybrid, a 4-3, a 3-4... He'll find some way. And with a passrusher like Anderson, we can always scheme to hide his pass coverage deficiencies (If there is some). I mean, we did it for Green, we do it for Haggans and I'm sure Anderson is 2-3 times the athlete that those 2 are.


So are you not a big fan of Moss or you just think there are no signs the Steelers like him? I'm a Florida fan and love his ability to rush the passer. I used to worry that some of these guys couldn't cover in the 3-4, but when you break it down to play to their strengths, let them loose and worry about the rest later, I still love Moss. I just checked the prospect interview list. Was he not interviewed?

I don't think I'm so much against Moss, even though he's played DE Longer he has less game experience and I feel as if he should've stayed a season and became a more complete DE like his Bookend Harvey. Moss is even more of a liability against the run. As of Right now Moss hasn't been interviewed (I checked again and have to update the list, Anderson hasn't visited either, but Tomlin has spent time at the Pro-Day and Combine. He's seen the game tape as well. It's a double edged sword. Moss and Anderson are similar, but Moss has less experience, less sacks, less girth.. I don't like to Rely solely on #'s, here's Moss' though
Height: 6064
Weight: 250
40 Yrd Dash: 4.70
20 Yrd Dash: 2.68
10 Yrd Dash: 1.59
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 16
Vertical Jump: 30 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'0"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.41
3-Cone Drill: 7.21

Looking at it you would think they're similar players, however I think Anderson is stronger, more explosive (Look at the Shuttle/Cone drills) If moss is considered a Candidate at 3-4 OLB, Moss is less agile and has a less explosive COD Ability (Change of Direction), Anderson's #'s are lower and though that doesn't necesarily translate to game success, it usually shows who's faster... thats nearly .2 seconds (Doesn't sound like much, but think 4.40 to 4.60, that could drop someone 3+ rounds) Cone drill is no different.


I feel very similar about Timmons as well. I just don't see him having stud potential. I could be wrong, which is why I hate to totally bash a guy before we select him. But I guess I just like a different type of linebacker. Didn't Tomling also visit his pro day? Maybe I'm wrong. I wonder what Tomlin sees in him. If Timmons pans out, in the 3-4, could he be a 10 sack a year type of guy? I really want a guy that can get us double digit sacks.

I like to compare players to pro's, kind of gives you an idea what your getting. However People see Timmons and think.. we had an undersized 3-4 OLB Named Greg Lloyd who had similar build. This kid is the next Lloyd. From what Scout.com writer Jim Wexell told me, While at the Steelers complex, Timmons was there, he was asking him questions, and timmons certainly looked the part. he said he was 6'0 234lbs of pure mean. Sounds like Lloyd, but If I remember Correctly Lloyd did do more in college. @ things are worrying me. 1) He only has one season at OLB(Then again so did Anderson/Moss), but he didn't exactly do a lot of great things in that time. Avg sacks (Considering they ran a 3-4 a good bit). He needs to add 10-15 lbs before I really think he has the size/frame to take the NFL Beating. I think Timmons could develop into a 6-12 sack a year guy, but Anderson could be a 10-17 consistantly. Plus, his showing up to pro-day overweight and out of shape screams LENDALE WHITE to me... Anderson has a non-stop motor.. he's my guy.

I love your top 10 and especially am now intrigued with Harrell. I'm always obsessed with 3-4 DE's and enjoy reading about who can project as one. As I said earlier, it looks simple projecting based on size and speed, but so much more goes in to it. Are you still high on Ilama-Francis?

:) I like me some Hawaii Guys. I mean going back to Fu'(I know Fu' was a BYU guy..), Troy... We seem to find some good Samoans. I like Alama-Francis, But Unfortunately for my obsession, he is suffering the "Carriker" effect. He was a no name DE From a 3-4 College (Well, Hawaii's not a no-name, but not a necessarily big prospect School). He's very raw, only starting full-time this season. I like Francis day 2 as depth and a project. I think the tools are there, but like Carriker, a solid 40 time, with his offseason, he's looking at round 2. After Alonzo and Coke... no more projects in round 2...

As for 3-4 here's who and round I predict. I'll do one for guys listed as Natural DE's and a list of DT/DE's:

DE:

Adam Carriker: 1
Ray McDonald: 2
Ikaika Alama-Francis: 2
Baraka Atkins: 4
Jay Moore: 4
Xzavie Jackson: 5-6
Greg Patterson: 7-UDFA
Mel Purcell: UDFA (3 year starter at Hawaii)
Derrick Jones: UDFA
Jermaine Reid: UDFA

DT:

Alan Branch: 1
Justin Harrell: 1
Turk McBride: 2
Marcus Thomas: 3-4
Paul Soliai: 3-4
Jay Alford: 4
Ryan McBean: 4
Joe Anoai: 6
Mike DeVito: UDFA
Walter Thomas: UDFA
Larry Brown: UDFA
Ed Johnson: UDFA
Zac West: UDFA


I agree with Levi Brown as well. Not a big fan. Much higher on Staley, and much rather would grab a LT of the future if we're taking one in the first round.

Same here, Few people realize that 3 gaurds and RT on contracts this year and both Essex and Smith are up the following year. As I see it by the time Staley would start he'd have the "Strength" issues resolved, where as Brown is much worse in pass pro(Can't mirror the defender near as well as Staley), and has a terrible motor. I've stated it before... 1 play off and Bens out of a game (Max Starks vs. Bart Scott).

Frankly I think LT shouldn't be an area of Major concern this year. I have 2 7th rounder/UDFA prospects that are huge, have great footwork and agility, just very raw. If you like Staleys athleticism and speed.. Check out Chase Johnson of Wyoming. 6'9 324 lbs. and Jason Capizzi of IUP. Capizzi is a former Pittsburgh transfer. He's same size as Johnson, but 2 scouts I talked to said his footwork is second to only... Joe Staley. 6'9 324 lbs, 1.5 inch longer wingspan than anyone at the combine, .5 inch longer finger span... the dude was unmoveable at IUP. I think he could compete with Starks for RT as a rookie and take LT his Jr. Season in the NFL. Oh yea, Capizzi ran a 5.22 40'. Thats not Marcus McNeil fast, but the kid is a football player.


I like Revis more than Hall but I'm just not convinced about the need for a CB. Maybe I hold on to things too long but I still wonder about Colclough. I constantly point out that he's younger than McFadden and from a small school. He left a horrible taste in everyone's mouth last year but for the punt returning, not cornerback. I just still have hope, especially with new coaching that has a secondary background, that our three young guys can be more than solid.

I agree.. Hall is my #3 CB right now. I'm not convinced for CB either. Frankly I rank CB/S with QB in terms of Need. As for Colclough I wasn't a fan of his punt returning (That was more a reflection of the coaching last year than him.) but he looked as if the light was coming on. I watched a bunch of games over and over this offseason. I noticed something. The plays that people flip out on Colclough for (Not all but most) were DeShea's fault. DeShea lost a step. 3 TD's last season Colclough Jammed TJ on an in route, DeShea was supposed to be his help in the middle.... TD TJ. Colclough was starting to come together. Unfortunately for us, he's the most complete CB we have. Once he realizes that and puts it together, I think our CB Core will be sick. He has Ike-like Athleticism and strength, McFaddens ball-skills, DeShea's blitzing ability... just needs to put those 3 together and we'll have a damn tough CB Core. In fact Horton, when Ike was benched, implored Cowher to put Coke in. He wouldn't. So, With Tomlin, All I've been reading is saying Ike is looking absolutely ridiculous in Workouts thus far. Smith was bragging to the media about everything Tomlin is teaching them. Tomlin said Ike has the ability to be a top 5 CB. I doubt we take a CB, unless it's a last option. Like I said, I think there'll be some type of Front 7 defender there at #15.. (IMO the order is : Anderson, Beason, Harrell, Carriker, Branch, Spencer, Timmons, then Revis or anyone else.)

Any guys in the 2nd round that might go early that you'd love to trade up for? Any opinion on Jarrett, Poz, Harrell, etc? I love getting a solid guy in the first round and then targeting a guy for the early second.

Unfortunately to answer this I'd have to make an assumption for our first rounder.

If we get a LB/Pass rushing specialist in round 1, I go Guard in round 2 (Only if Sears/Blalock are available), then WR. Hill/Smith/Davis.

If I get Harrell or a non-LB/Rusher, I go for Spencer in a trade up.

Some scouts have Jarrett dropping to rd 3. If he falls to our 2nd rounder, I'd have a hard time passing him up. Everyone wants to knock his 4.65. Was Jerry Rice much faster? Jerry rice didn't have his size, and Jerry Rice didn't set records in the very offense happy Pac-10. I think he owns the all-time TD record... when you think of the receivers from the Pac-10 (Going back to Lynn Swann, Keyshawn Johnson, Chad Johnson, TJ Housh... just off the top of my head.

Then again, I think the only way we draft a receiver is a day 1 guy. Jason Hill and Steve Smith are my top 2. Why? Because I have a feeling the idea in drafting a WR is to cut Cedrick Wilson. His $$ is huge for a #3/#4 WR. I think if they draft a guy, they want him to step in immediately. Arians offense should put everyone on a level playing field (Rookie/Vet alike), but Smith and Hill are the 2 guys I believe could start opening day at #3, I like Hill more because he has #1 Potential. I think Holmes is a career #2( Nothing bad about that.. Just ask Reggie Wayne, TJ, and so forth). But I think Hill's Possession WR ability, not to mention the fact he has blazing speed really gives us that edge.


Love your thoughts on Jackie Battle, DeOssie (sp), all of the wr's, etc. I'd say keep it up, but I think that goes without saying. Ok i guess i had more comments than questions, but appreciate your thoughts and hope to see a lot more.

With this close to the draft. Without Colbert/Tomlin calling me I can't exacly try to be more informative. I Love Battle. He absolutely abused Next years #1 MLB in Jasper Brinkley (Who if we don't get DeOssie is on the top of my 2008 draft list, I think he'll be an all-pro MLB 3-4 or 4-3.) He has the Legit speed that Brian Leonard doesn't have, but still possesses his size. I wish Battle was a better receiver out of the backfield, but thats something he can work on. Hunt reminds me of Kevan Barlow with less speed, Battle reminds me of a bigger, stronger, faster Michael Turner. You don't have to tell me who you'd rather have between Barlow/Turner. DeOssie is another favorite. Speed, Agility, has 3 Down LB written all over him. But I can see him doing the Adalius Role. You don't know where, when or How, but he could be lined up anywhere, play any LB position, could be a DE, OLB, ILB, and has the size/strength to do it.. just needs some coaching.
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Old 04-19-2007, 07:38 AM    (permalink
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i am the one that has been calling Timmons the next Gregg Lloyd and what i mean is he brings the fire like Gregg and the hard hitting. you could say he is the next Joey Porter then. Gregg and Joey both are vocal leaders and hard hitters. i do not think Porter or Timmons will be 100% as good as Gregg was but close and if we can get close then that means they are pro bowl bound because Gregg INO is HOF.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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i am the one that has been calling Timmons the next Gregg Lloyd and what i mean is he brings the fire like Gregg and the hard hitting. you could say he is the next Joey Porter then. Gregg and Joey both are vocal leaders and hard hitters. i do not think Porter or Timmons will be 100% as good as Gregg was but close and if we can get close then that means they are pro bowl bound because Gregg INO is HOF.
Granted, but Unfortunately Greg and Joey were very RARE athletes. Not many guys at 250 possess Porters speed/power, likewise at 220 for Lloyd.

Timmons is 240 and he hasn't shown me much fire. Do I think he *could* be that good, it's possible. But I'm not going to think every undersized OLB that had some decent passrushing times is the next coming of Greg Lloyd. You have ot realize that Porter put up I believe 17.5 sacks his last 2 collegiate seasons, Lloyd put up around that, Timmons put up what.. 4?
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Old 04-19-2007, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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point taken, i guess it is more of a gut feeling or it might be where he can bring the lumber and hit and that is what reminds me of Lloyd and Porter. i know that you can not go by just that but like i said it is just a gut feeling about him. i feel like Waters could be a Porter or Gildon type.
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Old 04-19-2007, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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P.S. if you noticed i did say if he could just get close to Gregg then that would be great. i do not think he will be as good but how many will and how often can you find someone that is.
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Old 04-19-2007, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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point taken, i guess it is more of a gut feeling or it might be where he can bring the lumber and hit and that is what reminds me of Lloyd and Porter. i know that you can not go by just that but like i said it is just a gut feeling about him. i feel like Waters could be a Porter or Gildon type.
I think Waters, add about 30 Lbs and he could push for another former Clemson LB.. Kirkland.

However, I like Timmons, but Lloyd's rare athleticism warranted a 2nd (Or was it a third?) round pick. Timmons is looking as a mid round 1 and we're only HOPING he could be near as good. I understand we got a monster steal, but still... thats a lot to give up for an unproven guy becuase we're hoping he can resemble anything of Lloyd.
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Old 04-19-2007, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Thank you everyone.

Mr Stiller, absolutely WONDERFUL!!!!

Since you've been dominating my homework assignments thus far, I'd like to ask another. Would you be able to find me the same workout numbers (or as much as possible) for Gaines Adams, Wimbley, Manny Lawson, DWare, and Merriman? As I've stated, Jarvis Moss is one of my favorite players. But some of my friends are expecting too much out of him. I think he's the prime example of a hybrid that everyone EXPECTED to dominate at the combine, but he failed to do so. However, I feel like some people (not many people here) ignore that he didn't light his workouts on fire and think too highly of him. I'd love all of that information to compare for myself and share to others.

This has really been an informative thread. Thank you
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Old 04-19-2007, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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i agree Mr.Stiller but who really is worth the 15th pick. i really hope we trade down and get another pick or two because this year the draft seems deep but does not have several superstars like most years.
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Old 04-19-2007, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Fu' was actually a Utah guy....
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Old 04-19-2007, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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Fu' was actually a Utah guy....
who are you talking about?
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Thank you everyone.

Mr Stiller, absolutely WONDERFUL!!!!

Since you've been dominating my homework assignments thus far, I'd like to ask another. Would you be able to find me the same workout numbers (or as much as possible) for Gaines Adams, Wimbley, Manny Lawson, DWare, and Merriman? As I've stated, Jarvis Moss is one of my favorite players. But some of my friends are expecting too much out of him. I think he's the prime example of a hybrid that everyone EXPECTED to dominate at the combine, but he failed to do so. However, I feel like some people (not many people here) ignore that he didn't light his workouts on fire and think too highly of him. I'd love all of that information to compare for myself and share to others.

First off.. For Moss, I think his perfect NFL Counterpart is Jacksonville Jaguars DE Bobby McCray. McCray exploded with a 10.5 sack season because of injury. The difference? about 6 rounds of where they'll be selected. Both Florida 6'6, same size/build, identical styles, however, McCray has the best DL in the NFL, can Moss be as explosive in a 3-4 OLB spot? In a weak DL? I think his issue is with what the Staph infection did to him. He's not where he should be physically. He's not a complete DE and Passrusher only at this point. His counterpart.. Derrick Harvey is a complete DE. I'd take Him over Moss.

Gaines Adams:
Height: 6046
Weight: 258
40 Yrd Dash: 4.64
20 Yrd Dash: 2.71
10 Yrd Dash: 1.58
225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump: 35
Broad Jump: 9'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.36
3-Cone Drill: 7.17
Chose not to bench

Kamerion Wimbley:

Height: 6037
Weight: 248
40 Yrd Dash: 4.61
20 Yrd Dash: 2.74
10 Yrd Dash: 1.60
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 24
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'9"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.48
3-Cone Drill: 6.98

Manny Lawson:

Height: 6053
Weight: 241
40 Yrd Dash: 4.43
20 Yrd Dash: 2.62
10 Yrd Dash: 1.55
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 23
Vertical Jump: 39 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'4"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.21
3-Cone Drill: 6.90

DWare:

Height: 6040
Weight: 251
40 Yrd Dash: 4.56
20 Yrd Dash: 2.71
10 Yrd Dash: 1.62
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 27
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'2"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.07
3-Cone Drill: 6.85

Merriman:

Height: 6043
Weight: 272
40 Yrd Dash: 4.64
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash:
225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump: 40
Broad Jump: 10'1"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.21
3-Cone Drill:


This has really been an informative thread. Thank you
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