Where will the QB class of 2004 rank all-time - Page 2

Shiver · 08-11-2006, 03:28 PM

The only Hall of Famer, is Roethlisberger, because he fits the Troy Aikman role. Completely overrated because of his supporting cast making him look better than he is.

duckseason · 08-11-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan

I think they will be #10 i think at most we'll have one HOF QB then 3 probowlers.

Can you honestly name 9 other groups you think will end up being better?

duckseason · 08-11-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

The only Hall of Famer, is Roethlisberger, because he fits the Troy Aikman role.

I fail to see the parallel. please enlighten us.

Ravens1991 · 08-11-2006, 03:32 PM

he means his teammates turn a above average QB to be great because his supporting cast is great. Ben is still young and can still develope, you never know, he has good tools.

Shiver · 08-11-2006, 03:32 PM

Troy Aikman never put up Hall of Fame-type production. But he won "super bowls," he was the game manager, who relied on his supporting cast for the most part. To enter the Hall of Fame you need to do one of two things to make it in as a QB;

1. Win Championships. (Aikman, Namath, Bradshaw)
2. Put up crazy stats. (Marino, Moon)

Shiver · 08-11-2006, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravens1991

he means his teammates turn a above average QB to be great because his supporting cast is great. Ben is still young and can still develope, you never know, he has good tools.

I doubt he'll ever become a statistical great QB, with Cowher holding him back.

duckseason · 08-11-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravens1991

he means his teammates turn a above average QB to be great because his supporting cast is great. Ben is still young and can still develope, you never know, he has good tools.

I undertand that, but comparing Aikman to Roethlisberger doesn't really fit. Aikman truly was great.
Roethlisberger has yet to prove that.

Shiver · 08-11-2006, 03:39 PM

:roll:

duckseason · 08-11-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

:roll:

Got something in your eye? Try visine.

sweetness34 · 08-11-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckseason

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

:roll:

Got something in your eye? Try visine.

Big Ben is a good QB, I won't deny that. But he's not yet a great one. The Steelers run game and their defense are really what got them to where they were last year. Big Ben played a big part, but he didn't really carry that team. He made the plays he had to in order to help his team win and he had a good year last season, but not a great one.

But I do think when it's all said and done, he'll be a great QB. And maybe this is the year where he takes his game to the next level.

steel man · 08-11-2006, 09:46 PM

people can think i am crazy, but i watched every game of Ben's college and pro carrer and i also saw Ben in person and imo he is the best. true football fans and people who break the games down know that stats does not matter as much as most people think, all that matters is winning and that what Ben does and so far he's done it better than anyone else in the history of this game. he killed the record for most wins to start a carrer, most wins over any 2 year span(and missed some games),helped his team win 14 stright and go 15-1 and went to the champinship game then the next year was the youngest QB to win a super bowl. anyone that is a Steelers fan or a fan of the game knows that the steelers have been pretty much the same team they are now execpt with a different QB and they could not win with Maddox,Kordell,Tomzack anyone they put back there just could not win. Then we drafted Ben and now in 2 years we are super bowl champs and could have won it in his 1st year. you want your QB's and teams to win and thats what he does and everybody will not give him credit. i do not base my comments on stats i base my comments on 4th qr comebacks, when your team needs a important throw and the QB makes it. when your team needs someone to step up and he does. items like that is what i base my "best QB in the NFL" on so it is not ridiculous that i say Ben is the best QB in the NFL because he is. take Manning he has just as good of a team but they could not beat the steelers even with bad calls. Manning and Marino's stats say they are the 2 best but Mannung has never been to the super bowl and Marino went to 1 and lost and even Elway and Frave could not win one until they got a team around them and Bledsoe even took the same NE team to the super bowl before Brady did and Brady needed to get Dillion to be able to go back. so this about Ben having a good team around him, well every super bowl team does the winning teams and losing teams(Bills,Seahawks). Montana,Brady, Ben, and Bradshaw may not had the best stats but they just won. plus Ben showed he could throw with the best of them and if he was in a different system he could put up big,big numbers and cowher and co. calls the plays and they are set in their ways about running the ball and you can not blame them with the QB's they have had in the past, but now i think they will open up more snice they have the best QB in football,in BIG BEN!!

:D :mrgreen: :P

Ravens1991 · 08-11-2006, 11:53 PM

correct about a QB winning but Trent Dilfer wasnt the best QB in the league when the Ravens won the superbowl.

Shiver · 08-11-2006, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steel man

blah,blah,blah, I love Roethlisberberger, blah, blah, blah, I love the Steelers.

I made your post much more concise.

San Diego Chicken · 08-12-2006, 12:24 AM

To say Roethlisberger is overrated is silly to me. He was the 3rd highest rated passer in the NFL last season at the ripe old age of 23. In fact, Roethlisberger's career QB rating is 98.3. As a point of comparison, Eli Manning's rating is a below average 70.5.

My feeling is Roethlisberger and Rivers will be the two best QBs from this draft. I'm not sure Rivers will be a hall of fame QB, but he will be a very good one right away, because he is smart, mature and a very accurate and poised passer. Eli Manning clearly is not as advanced as his brother was at the same age and I see him having a Jeff George-like career. If Schaub gets an opportunity sometime soon, he could have a solid career. Losman is a bust, he's always been too much of a headcase to play QB at this level.

Short answer no, this class isn't the class of '83.

portermvp84 · 08-12-2006, 12:26 AM

I liked the 98 draft alot of good players came out of that draft.

San Diego Chicken · 08-12-2006, 12:51 AM

The 99 draft was good for QB's -

Future HOF -

Donovan McNabb
Daunte Culpepper

Starter

Aaron Brooks

Decent backups

Shaun King

But there were alot of busts too -

Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Cade McNown

The 2003 draft looks like it will turn out pretty good -

Future HOF

Carson Palmer

Starters

Byron Leftwich
Chris Simms
Rex Grossman
Kyle Boller

5 starters in one draft is pretty good.

Shiver · 08-12-2006, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken

Future HOF -

Donovan McNabb
Daunte Culpepper

Future HOF

Carson Palmer

Way too early....

Besides, Quarterbacks are defined by post-season performances. The antithesis of what we've seen from McNabb and Culpepper thus far. Neither of them have shown consistently great play.

San Diego Chicken · 08-12-2006, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Quote:

Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken

Future HOF -

Donovan McNabb
Daunte Culpepper

Future HOF

Carson Palmer

Way too early....

Besides, Quarterbacks are defined by post-season performances. The antithesis of what we've seen from McNabb and Culpepper thus far. Neither of them have shown consistently great play.

You're probably right about it being too early, but those are upper echelon QB's. Maybe I should rename future HOF to perennial all-pro.

RCAChainGang · 08-12-2006, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steel man

people can think i am crazy, but i watched every game of Ben's college and pro carrer and i also saw Ben in person and imo he is the best. true football fans and people who break the games down know that stats does not matter as much as most people think, all that matters is winning and that what Ben does and so far he's done it better than anyone else in the history of this game. he killed the record for most wins to start a carrer, most wins over any 2 year span(and missed some games),helped his team win 14 stright and go 15-1 and went to the champinship game then the next year was the youngest QB to win a super bowl. anyone that is a Steelers fan or a fan of the game knows that the steelers have been pretty much the same team they are now execpt with a different QB and they could not win with Maddox,Kordell,Tomzack anyone they put back there just could not win. Then we drafted Ben and now in 2 years we are super bowl champs and could have won it in his 1st year. you want your QB's and teams to win and thats what he does and everybody will not give him credit. i do not base my comments on stats i base my comments on 4th qr comebacks, when your team needs a important throw and the QB makes it. when your team needs someone to step up and he does. items like that is what i base my "best QB in the NFL" on so it is not ridiculous that i say Ben is the best QB in the NFL because he is. take Manning he has just as good of a team but they could not beat the steelers even with bad calls. Manning and Marino's stats say they are the 2 best but Mannung has never been to the super bowl and Marino went to 1 and lost and even Elway and Frave could not win one until they got a team around them and Bledsoe even took the same NE team to the super bowl before Brady did and Brady needed to get Dillion to be able to go back. so this about Ben having a good team around him, well every super bowl team does the winning teams and losing teams(Bills,Seahawks). Montana,Brady, Ben, and Bradshaw may not had the best stats but they just won. plus Ben showed he could throw with the best of them and if he was in a different system he could put up big,big numbers and cowher and co. calls the plays and they are set in their ways about running the ball and you can not blame them with the QB's they have had in the past, but now i think they will open up more snice they have the best QB in football,in BIG BEN!!

:D :mrgreen: :P

I agree that Big Ben is a great, amazing, and HOF QB, but i refuse to beleive he's better than Manning.

yourfavestoner · 08-12-2006, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken

The 99 draft was good for QB's -

Future HOF -

Donovan McNabb
Daunte Culpepper

Starter

Aaron Brooks

Decent backups

Shaun King

But there were alot of busts too -

Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Cade McNown

The 2003 draft looks like it will turn out pretty good -

Future HOF

Carson Palmer

Starters

Byron Leftwich
Chris Simms
Rex Grossman
Kyle Boller

5 starters in one draft is pretty good.

I agree. I think the class of 2003 is better than 2004.

draftguru151 · 08-12-2006, 08:16 AM

When you are talking about great drafts you look at overall talent, not depth. Simms, Boller, and Grossman won't be great QBs.

Immaculate Tackle · 08-12-2006, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

The only Hall of Famer, is Roethlisberger, because he fits the Troy Aikman role. Completely overrated because of his supporting cast making him look better than he is.

After 2 years you've already determined his role? It is constantly expanding, and he is ultra-talented. He's not even close to his ceiling yet. Last year he had a Troy Aikman type year: Troy Aikman when he was in his 5th year. He will be better than Aikman.

duckseason · 08-12-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immaculate Tackle

After 2 years you've already determined his role? It is constantly expanding, and he is ultra-talented. He's not even close to his ceiling yet. Last year he had a Troy Aikman type year: Troy Aikman when he was in his 5th year. He will be better than Aikman.

Nice avatar.

Immaculate Tackle · 08-12-2006, 09:28 AM

I doubt that he'll win more superbowls, but I think he'll put up better stats.

duckseason · 08-12-2006, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immaculate Tackle

I doubt that he'll win more superbowls, but I think he'll put up better stats.

That is a definite possibility. But will he go down as the widely regarded most accurate QB in history?
I agree Ben has a very bright future, but go compare him to someone like Eli, or some other young guy.
Somebody who is actually on his current level.