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Old 08-15-2006, 03:49 PM    (permalink
DMWSackMachine
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Apparently "don't mess with Pav" is more of a plea for mercy than statement of caution.

What a juvenile point of view.
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Old 08-15-2006, 04:12 PM    (permalink
pav
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Legend
Bears
Ravens
Eagles
Falcons
Buccs
Colts
Seahawks
Jags

TEAMS OVER VIKINGS
That's just plain ridiculous Jags and Bears might be close, other than but other than that, you are dillusional. And i'm considered the insane one on here. You must have a grudge agianst the Vikings. I don't even know who the Seahawks or Buccs have playing on there lines other than simeon rice. Call me arrogant, but if i've never heard of them, they are irrelevant. Falcons, John Abraham and Kerney are great, but who is stuffing the run? Yeah falcons have a horrible run defense, but somehow you manage to rate their line over that of the vikings. Jags, two great runstuffers who get into the backfield, but their ends aren't exactly household names. The Giants have a better line than The buccs, Hawks, Eagles, and Falcons, but you somehow forgot to mention them. And don't say that i'm a Giants homer, because if i'm not mistaken the 3 DE in the Probowl from the NFC were Peppers, Osi and Strahan. The Ravens have Suggs and an unproven Haloti on the team and you are putting them ahead of Pat and Kevin Williams, Udeze, and James. I tried to find the most well rounded NFL defensive Line in the league and this is what i got. Let's be reasonable people. If i am starting a team and i had to pick a Defensive Unit to play for me, It is Udeze and James, pure young passrushers, Pat Williams a veteran NT who not only stuffs the run, but gets into the backfeild, and Kevin Williams, another young DT who routinely disrupts plays in the backfeild and made it to the probowl at a very young age. Give me a break people. I agree, i should have put the bears in, don't give me buccs or ravens or jags or colts or anybody else.
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Old 08-15-2006, 04:14 PM    (permalink
pav
 
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Apparently "don't mess with Pav" is more of a plea for mercy than statement of caution.

What a juvenile point of view.
A personal shot. Cute. It's a line from a song. Oh and regarding the ridiculous idea that julius jones is a better and more productive running back than tiki barber shows your ignorance. Look at the stats, genious boy.
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Old 08-15-2006, 04:19 PM    (permalink
The Legend
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pav
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Originally Posted by The Legend
Bears
Ravens
Eagles
Falcons
Buccs
Colts
Seahawks
Jags

TEAMS OVER VIKINGS
That's just plain ridiculous Jags and Bears might be close, other than but other than that, you are dillusional. And i'm considered the insane one on here. You must have a grudge agianst the Vikings. I don't even know who the Seahawks or Buccs have playing on there lines other than simeon rice. Call me arrogant, but if i've never heard of them, they are irrelevant. Falcons, John Abraham and Kerney are great, but who is stuffing the run? Yeah falcons have a horrible run defense, but somehow you manage to rate their line over that of the vikings. Jags, two great runstuffers who get into the backfield, but their ends aren't exactly household names. The Giants have a better line than The buccs, Hawks, Eagles, and Falcons, but you somehow forgot to mention them. And don't say that i'm a Giants homer, because if i'm not mistaken the 3 DE in the Probowl from the NFC were Peppers, Osi and Strahan. The Ravens have Suggs and an unproven Haloti on the team and you are putting them ahead of Pat and Kevin Williams, Udeze, and James. I tried to find the most well rounded NFL defensive Line in the league and this is what i got. Let's be reasonable people. If i am starting a team and i had to pick a Defensive Unit to play for me, It is Udeze and James, pure young passrushers, Pat Williams a veteran NT who not only stuffs the run, but gets into the backfeild, and Kevin Williams, another young DT who routinely disrupts plays in the backfeild and made it to the probowl at a very young age. Give me a break people. I agree, i should have put the bears in, don't give me buccs or ravens or jags or colts or anybody else.
that proves you have no football knowledge...

did you forget who lead in sacks in the nfl?

Grant Wistrom
Marcus Tubbs
Rocky Bernard
Bryce Fisher

buccs


Rice
White
Spires
McFarland
Hovan

jags

there end had more sacks then the whole vikings dline

gaints

no i just forgot to list them simple they should be on the list

ravens

Pryce
Suggs
Nagta
Green
Thomas
Gregg

you have to remember the ravens run a diffrent defence 4-6

the player above had a total of 25 sacks last year

panthers

not to take anything away from them cause they got a nice line but there starter have total of 19 sacks last year
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Old 08-15-2006, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pav
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Legend
Bears
Ravens
Eagles
Falcons
Buccs
Colts
Seahawks
Jags

TEAMS OVER VIKINGS
That's just plain ridiculous Jags and Bears might be close, other than but other than that, you are dillusional. And i'm considered the insane one on here. You must have a grudge agianst the Vikings. I don't even know who the Seahawks or Buccs have playing on there lines other than simeon rice. Call me arrogant, but if i've never heard of them, they are irrelevant. Falcons, John Abraham and Kerney are great, but who is stuffing the run? Yeah falcons have a horrible run defense, but somehow you manage to rate their line over that of the vikings. Jags, two great runstuffers who get into the backfield, but their ends aren't exactly household names. The Giants have a better line than The buccs, Hawks, Eagles, and Falcons, but you somehow forgot to mention them. And don't say that i'm a Giants homer, because if i'm not mistaken the 3 DE in the Probowl from the NFC were Peppers, Osi and Strahan. The Ravens have Suggs and an unproven Haloti on the team and you are putting them ahead of Pat and Kevin Williams, Udeze, and James. I tried to find the most well rounded NFL defensive Line in the league and this is what i got. Let's be reasonable people. If i am starting a team and i had to pick a Defensive Unit to play for me, It is Udeze and James, pure young passrushers, Pat Williams a veteran NT who not only stuffs the run, but gets into the backfeild, and Kevin Williams, another young DT who routinely disrupts plays in the backfeild and made it to the probowl at a very young age. Give me a break people. I agree, i should have put the bears in, don't give me buccs or ravens or jags or colts or anybody else.
See? This is why Pro Bowl voting is so screwed up. People like you see names that you recognize and assume that he's better than somebody you don't know.

Oh yeah, and those pure pass rushers you love so much on the Vikings? They combined for five sacks.

Meanwhile, Seattle led the league in sacks, and Jacksonville led the league in sacks per pass attempt. But you don't know their defensive linemen, so they must not be good.
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Old 08-15-2006, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?
Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.
So if that's true, you should be leaving soon..? I mean you must be pretty close to 20 if you're in college. :roll:

What is wrong with the Colts? No need to explain Freeney or Simon. Mathis is a good end who is overlooked because of Freeney, and I think Brock is also better than a lot of DTs in the NFL. I'm not saying they're the best, but they deserve mention. Plus they've proven themselves as a unit...

And if you think Julius Jones is less productive than Tiki Barber, I don't know why I'm even posting here... Even if Jones has some obscure stat that is better than Tiki's, there's no comparison. I like Jones, but he is not comparable to Tiki at this point.
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Old 08-15-2006, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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this is officially the worst thread on this board.

pav: please grow up before even thinking about telling me how to live my life. i'm sorry, but the idea that a 16-19 year old has any vague idea what life is like at 24 is absolutely laughable. the fact that you're even defending what you think is even worse.

and no, i haven't even gotten to the worst part. you've displayed such an utter lack of football knowledge by creating this poll and "defending" it, that you should really probably watch a few games before posting here again. better would be to take some time and read through what people with a significantly better understanding of football have said about the sport in other places.
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Old 08-15-2006, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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panthers ok , but the second and only other option are the viqueens ?

there are the steelers , the giants , the bears , the pats , and maybe also the saints ( with 2 good DEs ) and you choose the vikes ?
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Old 08-15-2006, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Vikings may have the most talented D-line,but they do not play up to it.

how bout the browncos?lol,jk
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Old 08-15-2006, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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I am a big fan of the line the Falcons are putting out there. Coleman is arguably the best pass rushing defensive tackle in the NFL, Kerney is great all around, and Abraham is one of the top sack artists in the entire league. Until Jenkins or Kevin Williams prove they can stay healthy and dominant, I'm going with Atlanta.
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Old 08-15-2006, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danman253
Quote:
Originally Posted by pav
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Originally Posted by danman253
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Originally Posted by pav
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Originally Posted by Dillen
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Originally Posted by pav
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?
Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.
Why? I am 18 so i'm not speaking from Personal Experiance, but its a place where you can talk about football with people who share the same interests. I mean would you talk to your girlfriend about this stuff? No. Age doesn't really matter IMO
Agreed. But, i would like to think that men over the age of 20 have jobs and responsibilities. Arguing on a football forum is a no no if you are over 20, in my opinion. Heck, even i feel like a loser on here. In retrospect i really regret not getting a summer job.
You'd be suprised how many people go on this site at their jobs.

Pretty much the reason i come to work....
P
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Old 08-15-2006, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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I am a big fan of the line the Falcons are putting out there. Coleman is arguably the best pass rushing defensive tackle in the NFL, Kerney is great all around, and Abraham is one of the top sack artists in the entire league. Until Jenkins or Kevin Williams prove they can stay healthy and dominant, I'm going with Atlanta.

Pass rushing their great at,stopping the run is a WAY different story.
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Old 08-15-2006, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pav
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Apparently "don't mess with Pav" is more of a plea for mercy than statement of caution.

What a juvenile point of view.
A personal shot. Cute. It's a line from a song. Oh and regarding the ridiculous idea that julius jones is a better and more productive running back than tiki barber shows your ignorance. Look at the stats, genious boy.
Nice, I'm glad to see that your reaction is consistent with my previous judgment of your mental faculties. Bravo.
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He was protecting his self
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

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Old 08-15-2006, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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The Bucs have one of the most underrated Dlines in the NFL. No wonder you don't know about them...

Sure Rice is the only one you know, and he deserves it. Rice routinely puts up 10+ sacks a year, when most teams know he is our best D lineman. The fact is Rice has 10 less career sacks than Strahan, and Strahan has played 3 more years, and he had 22 in one year. Strahan has had 7 seasons with 10 or les sacks, and Rice has one while playing with ARIZONA and us. So Rice is better than Strahan.

Our DTs have the potential to be very good. Chris Hovan played really well for, when he was though to be "washed up". Our future NT, Anthony Bryant, is a 335 pound force who will, IMO, produce similar to Warren sapp in his prime in 2 years.

Our other DE rotation is also very good. Greg Spires is Mr. Underrated, he really plays the run well and also provides with with a decent pass rush. Our other DE, Dewayne, is another young player on our DL who will break out as soon as he gets the chance to play every day.

Call me a homer, I really don't care, but I believe that the Bucs DL is Top 5 material, and will be Top 3 Material in 2 years
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Old 08-15-2006, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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No offense there dude, but you can't just list sacks as the sole barometer for how good a DE is. Especially over a career. Strahan was a late bloomer, and had to be shifted over to the strong side before he truly started to excel. Also, Rice isn't even average when it comes to playing the run, and he doesn't have the repertoire that Strahan has. Either way, I think you could possibly make a case that Rice is a better pass rusher than Mike is, but definitely not a better total package.

With that said, I actually do agree with you about the Bucs DLine. They are very good, and since Sapp left they have kind of flown under the radar a bit. However, they still don't come in the top 3. But they are among the best.
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

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Old 08-15-2006, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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No offense there dude, but you can't just list sacks as the sole barometer for how good a DE is. Especially over a career. Strahan was a late bloomer, and had to be shifted over to the strong side before he truly started to excel. Also, Rice isn't even average when it comes to playing the run, and he doesn't have the repertoire that Strahan has. Either way, I think you could possibly make a case that Rice is a better pass rusher than Mike is, but definitely not a better total package.

With that said, I actually do agree with you about the Bucs DLine. They are very good, and since Sapp left they have kind of flown under the radar a bit. However, they still don't come in the top 3. But they are among the best.
No offence taken, IDK how Strahan does against the run, so I can't comment on that...but I agree with your entire post
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Old 08-15-2006, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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It makes me mad to say this but the Hags have to be up there with Stroud and Henderson clogging up the middle of the d-line
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Old 08-15-2006, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Freeney is more of a product of the scheme and coaching staff than anything else.
You really think someone with his speed, explosiveness, and moves wouldn't succeed elsewhere?
I do think that. There is more to being a great defensive lineman than all that. The man can't play the run at all. Sure he will get the occasional big play behind the line, but he is all pass rush. He is up to field so quick that he takes himself out of plays all the time. Two years ago I was so worried about the same thing with Osi. I honestly didn't think Osi was going to be a great player because he used to take himself out of running plays all the time. He adapted. Freeney has shown he hasn't. He GREATLY benefits from playing with Manning and having a lead all the time. And he benefits even more by playing indoors on that turf. He is in a perfect situation to shine right now, but on most other teams he wouldn't have that novelty. And I really think he will see this if he ever hits the open market. Teams won't be making him the highest defensive player in the game. He should just ride a good thing out and resign with the Colts now, so more people don't realize how one dimensional he is.
At least I know I'm dealing with a hopeless case now. What part of "the scheme and the staff call for him to play that way" do you not understand? A big part of the Tampa 2 is to generate pressure, and a player who is playing pass first, especially one with the talent of Dwight Freeney, is going to accomplish that goal much better than a player who has a run responsibility before he tries to get to the QB. Considering that the Tampa 2 almost NEVER uses a blitz, getting that pressure with the DL is essential, so the scheme leaves it to the LBs and secondary to clean up any runs that get by. That's why the safeties in Tampa 2 schemes are generally very fast, and tend to be hard hitters. Also, the Colts coaching staff preaches to the DL to get to the QB first, and worry about the run if and/or when it happens. So, if a DE is playing in a scheme that requires him to get to the QB as fast as he can, and his coaches are telling him to play the pass invariably, doesn't it stand to reason that he's very likely to overrun a lot of running plays, and look like a bad run defender because of it?
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Old 08-15-2006, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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I dono, the Vikes Interior line is pretty hard to beat, Henderson/Stroud is the only DT combo better than that, but overall I'd say its the Panthers, if everyone is healthy.
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Old 08-15-2006, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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I dono, the Vikes Interior line is pretty hard to beat, Henderson/Stroud is the only DT combo better than that, but overall I'd say its the Panthers, if everyone is healthy.
I agree, Peppers is a absolute beast, Ma'ake Memouta is a very good run stuffer, if Kris Jenkins is healthy he will be a very good DT.
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Old 08-15-2006, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by effthiskid11
I dono, the Vikes Interior line is pretty hard to beat, Henderson/Stroud is the only DT combo better than that, but overall I'd say its the Panthers, if everyone is healthy.
I agree, Peppers is a absolute beast, Ma'ake Memouta is a very good run stuffer, if Kris Jenkins is healthy he will be a very good DT.
They both are excellent run stuffers, and the thing I like a lot about them is they should free up Peppers
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Old 08-15-2006, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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Can't believe none of ya'll mentioned the Phins DL.

Jason Taylor
Vonnie Holliday
Keith Traylor
Dan Wilkinson
Kevin Carter
David Bowens
Matt Roth
Jeff Zgonina

Don't no bout the rest of you, but that's a pretty good DL group right there. Who cares if only two of them are below 30, they still play well when it's gametime.
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Old 08-15-2006, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Apparently "don't mess with Pav" is more of a plea for mercy than statement of caution.

What a juvenile point of view.
A personal shot. Cute. It's a line from a song. Oh and regarding the ridiculous idea that julius jones is a better and more productive running back than tiki barber shows your ignorance. Look at the stats, genious boy.
There's a story behind his Julius Jones quote. You should really think of spending some time reading observing the board before you come online and start posting useless dribble.
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Old 08-15-2006, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?
Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close
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Old 08-15-2006, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by The Legend
Bears
Ravens
Eagles
Falcons
Buccs
Colts
Seahawks
Jags

TEAMS OVER VIKINGS
That's just plain ridiculous Jags and Bears might be close, other than but other than that, you are dillusional. And i'm considered the insane one on here. You must have a grudge agianst the Vikings. I don't even know who the Seahawks or Buccs have playing on there lines other than simeon rice. Call me arrogant, but if i've never heard of them, they are irrelevant. Falcons, John Abraham and Kerney are great, but who is stuffing the run? Yeah falcons have a horrible run defense, but somehow you manage to rate their line over that of the vikings. Jags, two great runstuffers who get into the backfield, but their ends aren't exactly household names. The Giants have a better line than The buccs, Hawks, Eagles, and Falcons, but you somehow forgot to mention them. And don't say that i'm a Giants homer, because if i'm not mistaken the 3 DE in the Probowl from the NFC were Peppers, Osi and Strahan. The Ravens have Suggs and an unproven Haloti on the team and you are putting them ahead of Pat and Kevin Williams, Udeze, and James. I tried to find the most well rounded NFL defensive Line in the league and this is what i got. Let's be reasonable people. If i am starting a team and i had to pick a Defensive Unit to play for me, It is Udeze and James, pure young passrushers, Pat Williams a veteran NT who not only stuffs the run, but gets into the backfeild, and Kevin Williams, another young DT who routinely disrupts plays in the backfeild and made it to the probowl at a very young age. Give me a break people. I agree, i should have put the bears in, don't give me buccs or ravens or jags or colts or anybody else.


The Seahawks DL is better than the Vikings. We led the league in sacks last year. That doesn't make us the best but we are still o ne hell of a line. Rocky Bernard is a quick DL who penetrates well. Marcus Tubbs when healthy is a beast. Winstrom may be getting older but has gas in tha tank. Bryce Fischer may be the weakest of them all, and he had a great season last year, he had one of the highest sack totals on our team. James and Udeze are unproven. Pat Williams is on the downfall. Kevin Williams is good, but i'd take Bernard over him
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