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Old 10-17-2006, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
I brought up his first quarter struggles but I am in no way saying that he is a bad qb. I'm saying that eventually if that doesn't improve he is going to get himself into trouble against tough defenses, especially if the Giants were to make it to the playoffs. He is no MVP candidate like I have heard it said, but he is CERTAINLY better than Bledsoe.
None of the sensible Giants fans are even mentioning his name in the MVP race, that is a whole different level that he has not reached. We all place him around 10th when ranking QBs in the league, as do the majority of the football fans on this site. So calling us homers and saying our view of him is too high would be invalid.
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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Giants have the best offense, then Eagles, Cowboys, Redskins in that order. It's funny how little love the Eagles had prior to the season.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
I brought up his first quarter struggles but I am in no way saying that he is a bad qb. I'm saying that eventually if that doesn't improve he is going to get himself into trouble against tough defenses, especially if the Giants were to make it to the playoffs. He is no MVP candidate like I have heard it said, but he is CERTAINLY better than Bledsoe.
None of the sensible Giants fans are even mentioning his name in the MVP race, that is a whole different level that he has not reached. We all place him around 10th when ranking QBs in the league, as do the majority of the football fans on this site. So calling us homers and saying our view of him is too high would be invalid.
Big Blue Defense said it, you can ask him. That was before the Atlanta game though.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
I brought up his first quarter struggles but I am in no way saying that he is a bad qb. I'm saying that eventually if that doesn't improve he is going to get himself into trouble against tough defenses, especially if the Giants were to make it to the playoffs. He is no MVP candidate like I have heard it said, but he is CERTAINLY better than Bledsoe.
None of the sensible Giants fans are even mentioning his name in the MVP race, that is a whole different level that he has not reached. We all place him around 10th when ranking QBs in the league, as do the majority of the football fans on this site. So calling us homers and saying our view of him is too high would be invalid.
I'd actaully have a hard time picking 9 other QBs I'd rather have. I'd probably put Eli 8th.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
I brought up his first quarter struggles but I am in no way saying that he is a bad qb. I'm saying that eventually if that doesn't improve he is going to get himself into trouble against tough defenses, especially if the Giants were to make it to the playoffs. He is no MVP candidate like I have heard it said, but he is CERTAINLY better than Bledsoe.
None of the sensible Giants fans are even mentioning his name in the MVP race, that is a whole different level that he has not reached. We all place him around 10th when ranking QBs in the league, as do the majority of the football fans on this site. So calling us homers and saying our view of him is too high would be invalid.
Big Blue Defense said it, you can ask him. That was before the Atlanta game though.
If he actually said that Eli was a legit MVP candidate, then I would be deeply disappointed. There are 7-8-9 guys that should be mentioned before him.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
I brought up his first quarter struggles but I am in no way saying that he is a bad qb. I'm saying that eventually if that doesn't improve he is going to get himself into trouble against tough defenses, especially if the Giants were to make it to the playoffs. He is no MVP candidate like I have heard it said, but he is CERTAINLY better than Bledsoe.
None of the sensible Giants fans are even mentioning his name in the MVP race, that is a whole different level that he has not reached. We all place him around 10th when ranking QBs in the league, as do the majority of the football fans on this site. So calling us homers and saying our view of him is too high would be invalid.
Big Blue Defense said it, you can ask him. That was before the Atlanta game though.
Maybe he was joking? BBD, joking? not possible.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
I brought up his first quarter struggles but I am in no way saying that he is a bad qb. I'm saying that eventually if that doesn't improve he is going to get himself into trouble against tough defenses, especially if the Giants were to make it to the playoffs. He is no MVP candidate like I have heard it said, but he is CERTAINLY better than Bledsoe.
None of the sensible Giants fans are even mentioning his name in the MVP race, that is a whole different level that he has not reached. We all place him around 10th when ranking QBs in the league, as do the majority of the football fans on this site. So calling us homers and saying our view of him is too high would be invalid.
Big Blue Defense said it, you can ask him. That was before the Atlanta game though.
Maybe he was joking? BBD, joking? not possible.
He wasn't. Eli is having a good season and before the Atlanta game a case could be made for him, not a good case, but a case nonetheless.
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Old 10-18-2006, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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number 10, it looks like you've aroused my attention once again. I cant see how I've been "owned" in any way. Last time I checked, it was week 7, the season is far from over my friend. You act like Eli has been so impressive, he has just as many ints as Bledsoe. Right now, i will give Eli the benefit of the doubt, at this moment he is the second best in the division, with bledsoe in 3rd. I honestly believe this is subject to change, I dont like to make excuses but, many arguments can be brought up to justify Bledsoe's slow start. 1. T.O./Bledsoe not on the same page (T.O. missed an extensive amount of time and it has hurt them on the field.) 2. The wet ball/field conditions (It has rained in three of our five games this year and it has had an effect) 3. O-Line (Did you watch the Eagles game?)
Now, I'll admit Eli has looked better this season, last time I checked he was hovering around 65%, even though 22 of those balls went to a a rarely covered Tiki Barber, that is still pretty impressive. but, with over half a season to go, a lot can change.

As of right now...

1. Mcnabb
2. Eli
3. Bledsoe
4. Brunell

Call me crazy but, I would still take Drew over Eli. If Eli was our QB in that Eagles game, i think things would have been much worse.
So if the 2 QBs play the same way from here on out, will you agree that Eli is at a higher level than Drew?
Yes I would. I'm not a homer if, I really believe someone is better than the other I will say so.
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Old 10-18-2006, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
Listen. Here's the bottom line: Eli has cost you a shot at two games. He threw the game clinching Int against Indy (explain how that is any different than what Bledsoe did against Jax or Philly) and was a turnover machine against Seattle leading to an unsurmountable lead. That's two lost games. In the Seattle game he piled up 200+ yards and 3 TDs in junk time after the game was out of reach, so his stats look respectable, when his play in that game negatively affected his team worse than either of Drew's bad days.

Then in Philly he generated a ton of stats after the game was thought to be out of reach. Philly was playing a soft D for much of the 4th quarter, and started being aggressive too late. Still, Eli was very impressive for stretches of that game, while being downright dirty horrible for other parts.

The whole thing about the Eli debate is his consistency and his erratic play. When he is on his game he has the potential to be a top 3 or 4 QB in the league, without a doubt. He really does. That was my point all along. However, there are still times when he makes bad decisions, throws floaters and generally plays very badly. That was my point.

As for Bledsoe, he had been pretty bad so far this year in two games. The only difference is that he didn't get stats in junk time to make the final tally look better. He threw three picks against the Eagles when he was being pressured at an amazing rate, and threw 3 more picks against the Jaguars when he was dealing with back spasms negatively affecting his mechanics. But we as a team did not get blown out in either of those games, and get 200+ yards of meaningless stats. Our team was in it until the end, and the plays that Bledsoe did make (like a 56 yard throw to Terry Glen that would have been a TD if not for the pass interference that Lewis committed) do not show up as readily in the stat column.

Has Manning played better so far? Yeah. Has he blown Bledsoe out of the water? Not even close. I would give a slight edge to Eli, even though the numbers differ by a significant margin.

But again, the question on this thread is about the best Offense. As is, this is the ranking:

Philly 29.8
Dallas 29.4
NYG 25.4
Washington way behind

I would be much obliged to see someone, anyone, recognize this fact.
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Giants have the best offense, then Eagles, Cowboys, Redskins in that order. It's funny how little love the Eagles had prior to the season.

i see giants cowboys as 1a. and 1b.

depending on what you like, and which drew bledsoe we decide to have at qb, either way i think both are above the rest....


just because mcnabb is the best qb in the division doesnt make up for their lack of talent at the WR position compared to the rest....and Julious Jones is under rated, he is avg 100 yds per game, with a very nice back up barber behind him...they dont get as much hype as barber and westbrook but very effective all the same...still as a whole, the eagles are third at best
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
Listen. Here's the bottom line: Eli has cost you a shot at two games. He threw the game clinching Int against Indy (explain how that is any different than what Bledsoe did against Jax or Philly) and was a turnover machine against Seattle leading to an unsurmountable lead. That's two lost games. In the Seattle game he piled up 200+ yards and 3 TDs in junk time after the game was out of reach, so his stats look respectable, when his play in that game negatively affected his team worse than either of Drew's bad days.

Then in Philly he generated a ton of stats after the game was thought to be out of reach. Philly was playing a soft D for much of the 4th quarter, and started being aggressive too late. Still, Eli was very impressive for stretches of that game, while being downright dirty horrible for other parts.

The whole thing about the Eli debate is his consistency and his erratic play. When he is on his game he has the potential to be a top 3 or 4 QB in the league, without a doubt. He really does. That was my point all along. However, there are still times when he makes bad decisions, throws floaters and generally plays very badly. That was my point.

As for Bledsoe, he had been pretty bad so far this year in two games. The only difference is that he didn't get stats in junk time to make the final tally look better. He threw three picks against the Eagles when he was being pressured at an amazing rate, and threw 3 more picks against the Jaguars when he was dealing with back spasms negatively affecting his mechanics. But we as a team did not get blown out in either of those games, and get 200+ yards of meaningless stats. Our team was in it until the end, and the plays that Bledsoe did make (like a 56 yard throw to Terry Glen that would have been a TD if not for the pass interference that Lewis committed) do not show up as readily in the stat column.

Has Manning played better so far? Yeah. Has he blown Bledsoe out of the water? Not even close. I would give a slight edge to Eli, even though the numbers differ by a significant margin.

But again, the question on this thread is about the best Offense. As is, this is the ranking:

Philly 29.8
Dallas 29.4
NYG 25.4
Washington way behind

I would be much obliged to see someone, anyone, recognize this fact.
The problem with you is that you have the most pesimistic view possible on the Giants while having the most optimistic view on the Cowboys...as seen with the escuse making for Bledsoe. (Guess you didn't notice how much pressure Eli recieved against the Eagles).

For you to tell us that Eli is shaky with his consistency isn't any news to anyone. We all know that already. But what do you expect from a QB in his 2nd full year as a starter? Also, great QBs can be inconsistent as seen with Brett Favre. Eli has a knack for the big play when it matters most and seems to never get rattled. Drew on the other hand can pretty much be taken out of the game with a few sacks early in the game.

We rank Eli around #10 give or take in the league as an NFL QB as do most of the other fans on this forum, yet we think too highly of him? Please explain. Nobody is saying he is blwing him out of the water, not yet anyway, but he is without a doubt, hands down a better QB than Drew.
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
Listen. Here's the bottom line: Eli has cost you a shot at two games. He threw the game clinching Int against Indy (explain how that is any different than what Bledsoe did against Jax or Philly) and was a turnover machine against Seattle leading to an unsurmountable lead. That's two lost games. In the Seattle game he piled up 200+ yards and 3 TDs in junk time after the game was out of reach, so his stats look respectable, when his play in that game negatively affected his team worse than either of Drew's bad days.

Then in Philly he generated a ton of stats after the game was thought to be out of reach. Philly was playing a soft D for much of the 4th quarter, and started being aggressive too late. Still, Eli was very impressive for stretches of that game, while being downright dirty horrible for other parts.

The whole thing about the Eli debate is his consistency and his erratic play. When he is on his game he has the potential to be a top 3 or 4 QB in the league, without a doubt. He really does. That was my point all along. However, there are still times when he makes bad decisions, throws floaters and generally plays very badly. That was my point.

As for Bledsoe, he had been pretty bad so far this year in two games. The only difference is that he didn't get stats in junk time to make the final tally look better. He threw three picks against the Eagles when he was being pressured at an amazing rate, and threw 3 more picks against the Jaguars when he was dealing with back spasms negatively affecting his mechanics. But we as a team did not get blown out in either of those games, and get 200+ yards of meaningless stats. Our team was in it until the end, and the plays that Bledsoe did make (like a 56 yard throw to Terry Glen that would have been a TD if not for the pass interference that Lewis committed) do not show up as readily in the stat column.

Has Manning played better so far? Yeah. Has he blown Bledsoe out of the water? Not even close. I would give a slight edge to Eli, even though the numbers differ by a significant margin.

But again, the question on this thread is about the best Offense. As is, this is the ranking:

Philly 29.8
Dallas 29.4
NYG 25.4
Washington way behind

I would be much obliged to see someone, anyone, recognize this fact.
The problem with you is that you have the most pesimistic view possible on the Giants while having the most optimistic view on the Cowboys...as seen with the escuse making for Bledsoe. (Guess you didn't notice how much pressure Eli recieved against the Eagles).

For you to tell us that Eli is shaky with his consistency isn't any news to anyone. We all know that already. But what do you expect from a QB in his 2nd full year as a starter? Also, great QBs can be inconsistent as seen with Brett Favre. Eli has a knack for the big play when it matters most and seems to never get rattled. Drew on the other hand can pretty much be taken out of the game with a few sacks early in the game.

We rank Eli around #10 give or take in the league as an NFL QB as do most of the other fans on this forum, yet we think too highly of him? Please explain. Nobody is saying he is blwing him out of the water, not yet anyway, but he is without a doubt, hands down a better QB than Drew.
Prove it.

That's all I'm saying. Prove it.

You can't use stats, because he has the most junk yards and TDs of any QB in the entire league.

Try this number: 3-2

Same record for both teams. What is the QBs no. 1 responsibility? Win. And each game we lost we were in position to win with a last second drive, we didn't get our asses blown out like you boys did.
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Listen. Here's the bottom line: Eli has cost you a shot at two games. He threw the game clinching Int against Indy (explain how that is any different than what Bledsoe did against Jax or Philly) and was a turnover machine against Seattle leading to an unsurmountable lead. That's two lost games. In the Seattle game he piled up 200+ yards and 3 TDs in junk time after the game was out of reach, so his stats look respectable, when his play in that game negatively affected his team worse than either of Drew's bad days.

Then in Philly he generated a ton of stats after the game was thought to be out of reach. Philly was playing a soft D for much of the 4th quarter, and started being aggressive too late. Still, Eli was very impressive for stretches of that game, while being downright dirty horrible for other parts.
He didn't throw the game clinching Int against Indy. We actually got the ball back and he was marching us down the field until a terrible offensive pass interference call on Tim Carter. Although the Colts were the better team that day. It was a lot different than Bledsoe against Philly or Jax because Eli actually had a great game minus one throw, while Bledsoe was pretty bad through a good portion of those games.

Also Eli at no point was "downright dirty horrible" against Philly. Against Seattle? Yes. But Eli was the only player who wasn't horrible at any point against Philly. Did you watch the Eagles/Giants game beacuse beofre you said he threw a pick in the first half and had 2 during the game and neither of those are correct.
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
Listen. Here's the bottom line: Eli has cost you a shot at two games. He threw the game clinching Int against Indy (explain how that is any different than what Bledsoe did against Jax or Philly) and was a turnover machine against Seattle leading to an unsurmountable lead. That's two lost games. In the Seattle game he piled up 200+ yards and 3 TDs in junk time after the game was out of reach, so his stats look respectable, when his play in that game negatively affected his team worse than either of Drew's bad days.

Then in Philly he generated a ton of stats after the game was thought to be out of reach. Philly was playing a soft D for much of the 4th quarter, and started being aggressive too late. Still, Eli was very impressive for stretches of that game, while being downright dirty horrible for other parts.

The whole thing about the Eli debate is his consistency and his erratic play. When he is on his game he has the potential to be a top 3 or 4 QB in the league, without a doubt. He really does. That was my point all along. However, there are still times when he makes bad decisions, throws floaters and generally plays very badly. That was my point.

As for Bledsoe, he had been pretty bad so far this year in two games. The only difference is that he didn't get stats in junk time to make the final tally look better. He threw three picks against the Eagles when he was being pressured at an amazing rate, and threw 3 more picks against the Jaguars when he was dealing with back spasms negatively affecting his mechanics. But we as a team did not get blown out in either of those games, and get 200+ yards of meaningless stats. Our team was in it until the end, and the plays that Bledsoe did make (like a 56 yard throw to Terry Glen that would have been a TD if not for the pass interference that Lewis committed) do not show up as readily in the stat column.

Has Manning played better so far? Yeah. Has he blown Bledsoe out of the water? Not even close. I would give a slight edge to Eli, even though the numbers differ by a significant margin.

But again, the question on this thread is about the best Offense. As is, this is the ranking:

Philly 29.8
Dallas 29.4
NYG 25.4
Washington way behind

I would be much obliged to see someone, anyone, recognize this fact.
The problem with you is that you have the most pesimistic view possible on the Giants while having the most optimistic view on the Cowboys...as seen with the escuse making for Bledsoe. (Guess you didn't notice how much pressure Eli recieved against the Eagles).

For you to tell us that Eli is shaky with his consistency isn't any news to anyone. We all know that already. But what do you expect from a QB in his 2nd full year as a starter? Also, great QBs can be inconsistent as seen with Brett Favre. Eli has a knack for the big play when it matters most and seems to never get rattled. Drew on the other hand can pretty much be taken out of the game with a few sacks early in the game.

We rank Eli around #10 give or take in the league as an NFL QB as do most of the other fans on this forum, yet we think too highly of him? Please explain. Nobody is saying he is blwing him out of the water, not yet anyway, but he is without a doubt, hands down a better QB than Drew.
Prove it.

That's all I'm saying. Prove it.

You can't use stats, because he has the most junk yards and TDs of any QB in the entire league.

Try this number: 3-2

Same record for both teams. What is the QBs no. 1 responsibility? Win. And each game we lost we were in position to win with a last second drive, we didn't get our asses blown out like you boys did.
Ok I like 3-2. Last year we had one more win than the Cowboys. So Eli must have been a better Qb last year since the number 1 responsibility is to win? I used the same reasoning this offseason and all Cowboys fans did was throw completion percetage in my face.
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Giants have the best offense, then Eagles, Cowboys, Redskins in that order. It's funny how little love the Eagles had prior to the season.

i see giants cowboys as 1a. and 1b.

depending on what you like, and which drew bledsoe we decide to have at qb, either way i think both are above the rest....


just because mcnabb is the best qb in the division doesnt make up for their lack of talent at the WR position compared to the rest....and Julious Jones is under rated, he is avg 100 yds per game, with a very nice back up barber behind him...they dont get as much hype as barber and westbrook but very effective all the same...still as a whole, the eagles are third at best
QB - Giants
RB - Giants
WR/TE - Cowboys
O-Line - Giants
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Prove it? haha.

Can't use stats? Of course not, because they do not favor Drew. If they did favor Drew, you'd be chucking up every stat you could and you know it.

You can't base a ranking solely off of wins because football is arguably the one sport in the entire world that really depends on the entire team. Eli did not blow the game against Indy, if you watched the film, Plax gave up on the route thus making the safety divert his attention to the other seam, which is where Eli threw it. By no means was it a good throw at all, but Plax was just as much at fault for that INT. And the Giants still lose that game if Eli throws a TD there. He did not blow the game against Seattle. Did he get off to a bad start? Yes. But if you have the time, go check what out defense did against the Alexander-less Seahawks you fool.

But anyway, let's compare who Drew and the Cowboys have beat.

Redskins (2-4)
Titans (1-5)
Texans (1-4)

A combined 4-13. Bledsoe should be given a pat on the back because he can beat up on the worst teams in the NFL? Hm.

Drew and the Cowboys have lost to

Jaguars (3-2)-Drew's rating-45.8
Eagles (4-2)-Drew's rating-33.1

They have lost to the two teams that have .500+ records right now and Drew played scary bad against them. Let's switch it over to Eli and the Giants.

Eli and the Giants have beat

Eagles (4-2)
Redskins (2-4)
Falcons (3-2)

A combined record of 9-8. Not easy not hard but considering two of those wins came on the road in tough places to play.....

Eli and the Giants have lost to

Colts (5-0) Eli's rating-88.7
Seahawks (4-1) Eli's rating-82.5

A combined 9-1, 2 of the top 3-4-5 teams in the NFL right now. And yes Eli got some garbage stats against the Seahawks, but it WAS against their first string defense.
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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Prove it? haha.

Can't use stats? Of course not, because they do not favor Drew. If they did favor Drew, you'd be chucking up every stat you could and you know it.

You can't base a ranking solely off of wins because football is arguably the one sport in the entire world that really depends on the entire team. Eli did not blow the game against Indy, if you watched the film, Plax gave up on the route thus making the safety divert his attention to the other seam, which is where Eli threw it. By no means was it a good throw at all, but Plax was just as much at fault for that INT. And the Giants still lose that game if Eli throws a TD there. He did not blow the game against Seattle. Did he get off to a bad start? Yes. But if you have the time, go check what out defense did against the Alexander-less Seahawks you fool.

But anyway, let's compare who Drew and the Cowboys have beat.

Redskins (2-4)
Titans (1-5)
Texans (1-4)

A combined 4-13. Bledsoe should be given a pat on the back because he can beat up on the worst teams in the NFL? Hm.

Drew and the Cowboys have lost to

Jaguars (3-2)-Drew's rating-45.8
Eagles (4-2)-Drew's rating-33.1

They have lost to the two teams that have .500+ records right now and Drew played scary bad against them. Let's switch it over to Eli and the Giants.

Eli and the Giants have beat

Eagles (4-2)
Redskins (2-4)
Falcons (3-2)

A combined record of 9-8. Not easy not hard but considering two of those wins came on the road in tough places to play.....

Eli and the Giants have lost to

Colts (5-0) Eli's rating-88.7
Seahawks (4-1) Eli's rating-82.5

A combined 9-1, 2 of the top 3-4-5 teams in the NFL right now. And yes Eli got some garbage stats against the Seahawks, but it WAS against their first string defense.
Any rebuttle to this?
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
I brought up his first quarter struggles but I am in no way saying that he is a bad qb. I'm saying that eventually if that doesn't improve he is going to get himself into trouble against tough defenses, especially if the Giants were to make it to the playoffs. He is no MVP candidate like I have heard it said, but he is CERTAINLY better than Bledsoe.
None of the sensible Giants fans are even mentioning his name in the MVP race, that is a whole different level that he has not reached. We all place him around 10th when ranking QBs in the league, as do the majority of the football fans on this site. So calling us homers and saying our view of him is too high would be invalid.
Big Blue Defense said it, you can ask him. That was before the Atlanta game though.
Yes I did say it, and I retract his name from the MVP talk at the moment. Can he get back there? Possibly. After the Atlanta game, he's hurt his chances. But before that game, hear me out.

He was 2nd in the league in TDs and completion %, and that was with having a bye week, and any one of us who've seen the Giants consistently this season would know that without him, we'd easily be winless. For that reason, I thought he was a viable candidate. If Grossman was one, why not Eli? Eli was as important to our team if not moreso than Grossman to the Bears. Thats why I said it. He had near equal stats to McNabb, better stats than Grossman, and equal importance. Now obviously, his name is off the list after the Atlanta game, but can he get back on it? Maybe, its only week 7 right now. But I think I was somewhat justified by bringing his name up. We heard Stephen Jackson's name, why not Eli?
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't see how the Atlanta game hurt Eli Manning. The Falcons secondary have given up two passing touchdowns all season, both to Eli Manning. DeAngelo Hall is a playmaker, he's picked everybody this year. I was impressed with his performance, although Tiki abusing Demorrio Williams was the real reason the Giants scored 27 points.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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I don't see how the Atlanta game hurt Eli Manning. The Falcons secondary have given up two passing touchdowns all season, both to Eli Manning. DeAngelo Hall is a playmaker, he's picked everybody this year. I was impressed with his performance, although Tiki abusing Demorrio Williams was the real reason the Giants scored 27 points.
I know, but statistically, he didn't have a great game. And I knew that the Eli haters would use that as a way to knock him. Eli played ok, but I will admit, he didn't play Peyton-like in that game. Its amazing how he has to play like Peyton every single quarter for every single game too, its amazing how people will find the tiniest thing to knock him for. Its funny, because theres so much more to the game than stats, and if you look at Eli play, and look at Bledsoe play, the stats might be similar, but anyone with a pair of working eyes can see that Eli is light years ahead of Bledsoe. There are plays that he makes that Drew Bledsoe could only dream of making.


I also noticed how certain Cowboys fans say "stats mean nothing" when it proves Bledsoe to be worse, but when it proves him to be better, they whip out the stats like no tomorrow. I find that funny.
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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Prove it? haha.

Can't use stats? Of course not, because they do not favor Drew. If they did favor Drew, you'd be chucking up every stat you could and you know it.

You can't base a ranking solely off of wins because football is arguably the one sport in the entire world that really depends on the entire team. Eli did not blow the game against Indy, if you watched the film, Plax gave up on the route thus making the safety divert his attention to the other seam, which is where Eli threw it. By no means was it a good throw at all, but Plax was just as much at fault for that INT. And the Giants still lose that game if Eli throws a TD there. He did not blow the game against Seattle. Did he get off to a bad start? Yes. But if you have the time, go check what out defense did against the Alexander-less Seahawks you fool.

But anyway, let's compare who Drew and the Cowboys have beat.

Redskins (2-4)
Titans (1-5)
Texans (1-4)

A combined 4-13. Bledsoe should be given a pat on the back because he can beat up on the worst teams in the NFL? Hm.

Drew and the Cowboys have lost to

Jaguars (3-2)-Drew's rating-45.8
Eagles (4-2)-Drew's rating-33.1

They have lost to the two teams that have .500+ records right now and Drew played scary bad against them. Let's switch it over to Eli and the Giants.

Eli and the Giants have beat

Eagles (4-2)
Redskins (2-4)
Falcons (3-2)

A combined record of 9-8. Not easy not hard but considering two of those wins came on the road in tough places to play.....

Eli and the Giants have lost to

Colts (5-0) Eli's rating-88.7
Seahawks (4-1) Eli's rating-82.5

A combined 9-1, 2 of the top 3-4-5 teams in the NFL right now. And yes Eli got some garbage stats against the Seahawks, but it WAS against their first string defense.

nice stats, cant argue with it....personally id take eli in a heartbeat because even if he screws up alot in the games, when it counts, its almost like you feel like he will come through and make a big play, if drew is put into a position to make a big play, he reminds me of neil o donnel
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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None of your QB's names rhyme with sexy. Refute that.
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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None of your QB's names rhyme with sexy. Refute that.
I never knew his nickname was "Rexy" Grossman.
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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Prove it? haha.

Can't use stats? Of course not, because they do not favor Drew. If they did favor Drew, you'd be chucking up every stat you could and you know it.

You can't base a ranking solely off of wins because football is arguably the one sport in the entire world that really depends on the entire team. Eli did not blow the game against Indy, if you watched the film, Plax gave up on the route thus making the safety divert his attention to the other seam, which is where Eli threw it. By no means was it a good throw at all, but Plax was just as much at fault for that INT. And the Giants still lose that game if Eli throws a TD there. He did not blow the game against Seattle. Did he get off to a bad start? Yes. But if you have the time, go check what out defense did against the Alexander-less Seahawks you fool.

But anyway, let's compare who Drew and the Cowboys have beat.

Redskins (2-4)
Titans (1-5)
Texans (1-4)

A combined 4-13. Bledsoe should be given a pat on the back because he can beat up on the worst teams in the NFL? Hm.

Drew and the Cowboys have lost to

Jaguars (3-2)-Drew's rating-45.8
Eagles (4-2)-Drew's rating-33.1

They have lost to the two teams that have .500+ records right now and Drew played scary bad against them. Let's switch it over to Eli and the Giants.

Eli and the Giants have beat

Eagles (4-2)
Redskins (2-4)
Falcons (3-2)

A combined record of 9-8. Not easy not hard but considering two of those wins came on the road in tough places to play.....

Eli and the Giants have lost to

Colts (5-0) Eli's rating-88.7
Seahawks (4-1) Eli's rating-82.5

A combined 9-1, 2 of the top 3-4-5 teams in the NFL right now. And yes Eli got some garbage stats against the Seahawks, but it WAS against their first string defense.
Any rebuttle to this?
Did you really just quote yourself?


Anyway, yes, you just listed off all the textbook reasons why Eli has been better and why the Giants have been better. You'll notice that I have acknowledged that Eli has played better up to this point. I'm not actually trying to prove that Drew has been. To answer a question that was posed earlier, I can't remember who asked it, yes, if both continue to play at the level that they have played to this point then I will say that Eli is clearly better than Bledsoe this year. If you remember, my whole point before the season was to say that they might be fairly close, but because Bledsoe is a veteran with a proven track record who has won the biggest of games and seen everything there is to see, then I would take Bledsoe for this season. Obviously if you had to pick one going forward it would be Manning for reasons that are too simple to need explaining.

However, my reasoning is this:

Take away the junk yards that he accumulated against Seattle. Take into account the holes he has dug in games against Philly and Atlanta, and then take into account his inability to capitalize on one of the worst secondaries in the league (Washington) and there is a lot more there than meets the eye.

I love how you quote QB rating on a game by game basis as if it tells the whole story. Look at the Dalls vs. Philly game. We had two long drives that Bledsoe engineered for TDs. One ended in a short run by MB3, and the other in a scramble for a TD that Bledsoe made himself. If you turn were to credit Drew for TDs passes on each of those drives, his QB rating goes way up and his stat line all of a sudden looks at least semi-respectable.

You'll notice that Eli has 11 TDs to 7 from Bledsoe (though they have the exact same number of Ints). In the red zone, the Giants have scored 8 TDs. Of those eight a whopping SIX, or 75%, of their TDs have come via the pass. The Cowboys, on the other hand, have scored 12 TDs in the red zone of which 4 have been passes, or 33%. This is an example of a statistical anomaly. It gives the appearance that Eli has been better at putting the ball into the end zone, and yet a large portion of the difference is the tendency of the Giants to let Manning throw it in for the score as opposed to letting their 3rd ranked run game (and, imo, the 2nd best RB in the league) punch it in for the score. This results in a large difference in passer rating, while essentially meaning nothing.

This is only a part of the difference in passer rating, and yet you quote it with such fervor and conviction that one would think that it was the penultimate difference maker in the arguments.

Anyhow, this discussion is going in a circle. You obviously have no desire to admit anything that does not fit into your little belief in The Future. What you don't see is that you can still admit things that are negative without tarnishing what Eli will be. I've found in my experience with NY fans in particular that the "Next Guy" has to always be the very best right now, no matter how unreasonable it is to suggest otherwise. Eli is a fine QB at the moment. He has shown all of the tell tale signs of a young talented guy that is figuring it out. In three or four years he may be among the very elite in the league. Right now, though, he definately is not. He has put together some impressive stats. All I have attempted to do is put those stats in a perspective that shows how misleading they are.

Drew Bledsoe has been a very good QB for about 14 of the 20 quarters this season. You mention how he has done against mediocre competition, and yet you do not acknowlege what he did against Jacksonville before his back tightened up, and against Philly for the last half of the 1st quarter, the entire 2nd quarter, and most of the 3rd quarter. Your forget that we outscored the Eagles 21-7 from the 6 minute mark til the end of the half. We led at half time, we overcame a huge 10-0 hole and a complete circus atmosphere, behind largely the play of Drew Bledsoe. But all you remember is that signature replay we've seen a million times by now of him throwing it right to Lito for a TD the other way. Of course that's how it is. It's a bottom line league. But if you expect it to be that way at all times in the future, you are in for a really nasty surprise.
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He was protecting his self
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From what? His leg?
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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None of your QB's names rhyme with sexy. Refute that.
I never knew his nickname was "Rexy" Grossman.
Sexy Rexy baby. You didn't hear Moose on MNF when he said he was bringing sexy back?
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