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Old 08-29-2006, 05:22 PM    (permalink
Number 10
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
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Originally Posted by Go_Eli
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Well, I've heard differently about Eli, I've heard at times he has looked sharp but, accuracy wise he looks about the same or a little better than last year. The odd thing is, every Giant report about him says he's much improved but, then you go outside of that and other scouts are saying he looks exactly the same and he tends to stare certain guys down. I personally believe Eli, is the most overrated QB in the NFL, I do however believe he will be phenominal one day. I guess you could say the jury is still out on him for this year, Giants say one thing and NFC East scouts say something else, I guess we will see as the regular season comes around.
Redskin, Cowboy, or Eagles fans telling you that?

And btw...who exactly is overrating Eli Manning? Knowledge Giant fans aren't, knowledge NFL fans, and the media sure aren't. So who exactly is?
Are you kidding? Eli is so grossly overrated it is ridiculous now, there are even so called experts out there that say he is better than Peyton. It's a joke, he has not done anything to show that he is a top QB except throw for a lot of yards and the only reason he did that was because he had Plax catching all his high passes and Tiki catching screens and swings all game. If he didnt have Plax, he wouldnt have thrown for 50% last year and yet some how he is mentioned in the top tier of Qb's now, it doesnt make any sense. Eli, is also terribly overrated among Giants fans on this board, how you can rank him higher than Mccnabb or Bledsoe? You take Bledsoe's and Manning's numbers from last year, all Eli has on him is yards and it's not by many. Eventhough Bledsoe has the additions of a brand new line and arguably the best WR in the league ,T.O., Giants fans will still rank Eli higher :? not very logical at all.
Oh brother.

Show me where anyone with credibility ranks Eli over Peyton. Then do with the same with McNabb. Bledsoe and Eli is debatable according to some Cowboys fans.
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Old 08-29-2006, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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Well by "experts" I meant some of the posters on here, just check out the Eli vs Peyton thread or whatever it's called. The point I'm trying to make is that he is indeed overrated, he hasnt done anything to deserve such praise. He shouldnt be mentioned in the top tier of QB's yet, although he is, even with credible sports analysts. As for the whole Bledsoe/Eli debate, the only thing I believe Eli has on Bledsoe is a little more mobility, that is it.
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Old 08-29-2006, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Well by "experts" I meant some of the posters on here, just check out the Eli vs Peyton thread or whatever it's called. The point I'm trying to make is that he is indeed overrated, he hasnt done anything to deserve such praise. He shouldnt be mentioned in the top tier of QB's yet, although he is, even with credible sports analysts. As for the whole Bledsoe/Eli debate, the only thing I believe Eli has on Bledsoe is a little more mobility, that is it.
There is not a single credible poster here that would place Eli anywhere close to the elite QBs in the league. Many will put him in the top 10 and rightfully so. He led the Giants to an 11-5 record while winning the NFC East in his first season as a starter. He played exceptionally well late in games when his team needed him to come through. He went through flashes of absolute dominance but because he is young and green when it somes to the NFL, he will not be considered amonst the elite for awhile. Anyone that puts him in the top 5 is insane and I have yet to see anyone here do it. Please show me where credible sports analysts rank him in the elite class.
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Old 08-29-2006, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Well by "experts" I meant some of the posters on here, just check out the Eli vs Peyton thread or whatever it's called. The point I'm trying to make is that he is indeed overrated, he hasnt done anything to deserve such praise. He shouldnt be mentioned in the top tier of QB's yet, although he is, even with credible sports analysts. As for the whole Bledsoe/Eli debate, the only thing I believe Eli has on Bledsoe is a little more mobility, that is it.
There is not a single credible poster here that would place Eli anywhere close to the elite QBs in the league. Many will put him in the top 10 and rightfully so. He led the Giants to an 11-5 record while winning the NFC East in his first season as a starter. He played exceptionally well late in games when his team needed him to come through. He went through flashes of absolute dominance but because he is young and green when it somes to the NFL, he will not be considered amonst the elite for awhile. Anyone that puts him in the top 5 is insane and I have yet to see anyone here do it. Please show me where credible sports analysts rank him in the elite class.
I dont think I could find an actual link for you. Just try watching NFL Live, SC, or some kind of show like that, every now and then they'll rank the players and everyone seems to have Eli in the top 5-8 now a days. I'm done with this argument, we are not going to agree on anything. I'm just not as high on him as everyone is, a couple of years down the road, yeah he may be the best. As of of right now, I think too many people are overrating him based on the fact that he threw for so many yards last year, I believe he will have a really tough time and be the Giants downfall this season, we shall see.

I appreciate your thoughts and input.
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Old 08-29-2006, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Well by "experts" I meant some of the posters on here, just check out the Eli vs Peyton thread or whatever it's called. The point I'm trying to make is that he is indeed overrated, he hasnt done anything to deserve such praise. He shouldnt be mentioned in the top tier of QB's yet, although he is, even with credible sports analysts. As for the whole Bledsoe/Eli debate, the only thing I believe Eli has on Bledsoe is a little more mobility, that is it.
There is not a single credible poster here that would place Eli anywhere close to the elite QBs in the league. Many will put him in the top 10 and rightfully so. He led the Giants to an 11-5 record while winning the NFC East in his first season as a starter. He played exceptionally well late in games when his team needed him to come through. He went through flashes of absolute dominance but because he is young and green when it somes to the NFL, he will not be considered amonst the elite for awhile. Anyone that puts him in the top 5 is insane and I have yet to see anyone here do it. Please show me where credible sports analysts rank him in the elite class.
I dont think I could find an actual link for you. Just try watching NFL Live, SC, or some kind of show like that, every now and then they'll rank the players and everyone seems to have Eli in the top 5-8 now a days. I'm done with this argument, we are not going to agree on anything. I'm just not as high on him as everyone is, a couple of years down the road, yeah he may be the best. As of of right now, I think too many people are overrating him based on the fact that he threw for so many yards last year, I believe he will have a really tough time and be the Giants downfall this season, we shall see.

I appreciate your thoughts and input.
I watch those shows too and NONE OF THEM ever place Eli before Peyton, or any of the other elite QBs in the league. Some he may turn out to be better, but none of them say he is currently better. Ranking him in the top 8 is feasible, I have him between there and 10. I understand that you think he may be awful last year, but understand that your reasoning for calling him overrated is invalid.
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Old 08-29-2006, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
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Originally Posted by Number 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Well by "experts" I meant some of the posters on here, just check out the Eli vs Peyton thread or whatever it's called. The point I'm trying to make is that he is indeed overrated, he hasnt done anything to deserve such praise. He shouldnt be mentioned in the top tier of QB's yet, although he is, even with credible sports analysts. As for the whole Bledsoe/Eli debate, the only thing I believe Eli has on Bledsoe is a little more mobility, that is it.
There is not a single credible poster here that would place Eli anywhere close to the elite QBs in the league. Many will put him in the top 10 and rightfully so. He led the Giants to an 11-5 record while winning the NFC East in his first season as a starter. He played exceptionally well late in games when his team needed him to come through. He went through flashes of absolute dominance but because he is young and green when it somes to the NFL, he will not be considered amonst the elite for awhile. Anyone that puts him in the top 5 is insane and I have yet to see anyone here do it. Please show me where credible sports analysts rank him in the elite class.
I dont think I could find an actual link for you. Just try watching NFL Live, SC, or some kind of show like that, every now and then they'll rank the players and everyone seems to have Eli in the top 5-8 now a days. I'm done with this argument, we are not going to agree on anything. I'm just not as high on him as everyone is, a couple of years down the road, yeah he may be the best. As of of right now, I think too many people are overrating him based on the fact that he threw for so many yards last year, I believe he will have a really tough time and be the Giants downfall this season, we shall see.

I appreciate your thoughts and input.
I watch those shows too and NONE OF THEM ever place Eli before Peyton, or any of the other elite QBs in the league. Some he may turn out to be better, but none of them say he is currently better. Ranking him in the top 8 is feasible, I have him between there and 10. I understand that you think he may be awful last year, but understand that your reasoning for calling him overrated is invalid.
I never said that they ranked him over Peyton, I thought I cleared that up. I've seen him ranked in the top 5 a couple of times and I do believe he is overrated, is he a top 10 Qb? I'm not even sure about that one, his accuracy was abysmal last season and despite his 60% comp. percentage in the preseason he hasnt looked overly impressive or anything. From what I gathered thus far is that he is still the inconsistant Qb he was a year ago, the first game he looked good, second game he looked great, and then the third game he didnt look so hot. Yes, he is probably improved himself in some areas and maybe I'm reading to much into his preseason play but, so far he doesnt look that much better or any more consistant than he was one season ago. Personally, I would take 10 Qb's maybe more in front of Eli at this point. Hey but, thats just me.
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Old 08-29-2006, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Well by "experts" I meant some of the posters on here, just check out the Eli vs Peyton thread or whatever it's called. The point I'm trying to make is that he is indeed overrated, he hasnt done anything to deserve such praise. He shouldnt be mentioned in the top tier of QB's yet, although he is, even with credible sports analysts. As for the whole Bledsoe/Eli debate, the only thing I believe Eli has on Bledsoe is a little more mobility, that is it.
There is not a single credible poster here that would place Eli anywhere close to the elite QBs in the league. Many will put him in the top 10 and rightfully so. He led the Giants to an 11-5 record while winning the NFC East in his first season as a starter. He played exceptionally well late in games when his team needed him to come through. He went through flashes of absolute dominance but because he is young and green when it somes to the NFL, he will not be considered amonst the elite for awhile. Anyone that puts him in the top 5 is insane and I have yet to see anyone here do it. Please show me where credible sports analysts rank him in the elite class.
I dont think I could find an actual link for you. Just try watching NFL Live, SC, or some kind of show like that, every now and then they'll rank the players and everyone seems to have Eli in the top 5-8 now a days. I'm done with this argument, we are not going to agree on anything. I'm just not as high on him as everyone is, a couple of years down the road, yeah he may be the best. As of of right now, I think too many people are overrating him based on the fact that he threw for so many yards last year, I believe he will have a really tough time and be the Giants downfall this season, we shall see.

I appreciate your thoughts and input.
I watch those shows too and NONE OF THEM ever place Eli before Peyton, or any of the other elite QBs in the league. Some he may turn out to be better, but none of them say he is currently better. Ranking him in the top 8 is feasible, I have him between there and 10. I understand that you think he may be awful last year, but understand that your reasoning for calling him overrated is invalid.
I never said that they ranked him over Peyton, I thought I cleared that up. I've seen him ranked in the top 5 a couple of times and I do believe he is overrated, is he a top 10 Qb? I'm not even sure about that one, his accuracy was abysmal last season and despite his 60% comp. percentage in the preseason he hasnt looked overly impressive or anything. From what I gathered thus far is that he is still the inconsistant Qb he was a year ago, the first game he looked good, second game he looked great, and then the third game he didnt look so hot. Yes, he is probably improved himself in some areas and maybe I'm reading to much into his preseason play but, so far he doesnt look that much better or any more consistant than he was one season ago. Personally, I would take 10 Qb's maybe more in front of Eli at this point. Hey but, thats just me.
Name them. And reasons why.
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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Originally Posted by Vikes99ej View Post
These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
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Old 08-29-2006, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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I find it pointless to give you indivisual explanations on each player. Just look at what they have done in the league and there is no way you can rank Eli higher than any of these guys.

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Carson Palmer
4. Matt Hasselback
5. Trent Green
6. Donavan Mcnabb
7. Jake Delhomme
8. Drew Bledsoe
9. Kurt Warner
10. Daunte Culpepper

Look at every Qb here, all have exceptional completion percentages and they all read defenses with ease. I dont know how you can make an argument that Eli is better than any of these Qbs right now.
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Old 08-29-2006, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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I would take Kurt off of that and add Big Ben.
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Old 08-29-2006, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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I would take Kurt off of that and add Big Ben.
i totally spaced on Big Ben but, I'm just saying there are atleast 10 Qbs better than Eli out there.
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Old 08-29-2006, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I find it pointless to give you indivisual explanations on each player. Just look at what they have done in the league and there is no way you can rank Eli higher than any of these guys.

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Carson Palmer
4. Matt Hasselback
5. Trent Green
6. Donavan Mcnabb
7. Jake Delhomme
8. Drew Bledsoe
9. Kurt Warner
10. Daunte Culpepper

Look at every Qb here, all have exceptional completion percentages and they all read defenses with ease. I dont know how you can make an argument that Eli is better than any of these Qbs right now.
1-7 is fine.

-Bledsoe vs. Eli has been debated here so many times, ugh. Basically it comes down to the fact that Eli is on his way up, Bledsoe is not. Yes, Bledsoe is more accurate and may even have a better arm, but Eli has the moxy and pocket presence already that Bledsoe does not. I would, as would many other NFL fans, take Eli in a tight spot at the end of a game over Bledsoe any day of the week.

-Kurt Warner? He was benched in New York because of Eli. He is more inconsistent than Eli and despite having monster weapons in Arizona, he can't put together a solid season.

-Daunte Culpepper was one of, if not the worst starting QB in the league when he got hurt last season. I watched 3 of their films and the decisions he made were mind boggling at times. Add his torn up knee into the debate and you can't convince me that he is the QB that threw 40+ TDs. It seems to me that you are living in the past which is unfair because Eli has one full season as a starter.
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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Originally Posted by Vikes99ej View Post
These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
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Old 08-29-2006, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I find it pointless to give you indivisual explanations on each player. Just look at what they have done in the league and there is no way you can rank Eli higher than any of these guys.

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Carson Palmer
4. Matt Hasselback
5. Trent Green
6. Donavan Mcnabb
7. Jake Delhomme
8. Drew Bledsoe
9. Kurt Warner
10. Daunte Culpepper

Look at every Qb here, all have exceptional completion percentages and they all read defenses with ease. I dont know how you can make an argument that Eli is better than any of these Qbs right now.
1-7 is fine.

-Bledsoe vs. Eli has been debated here so many times, ugh. Basically it comes down to the fact that Eli is on his way up, Bledsoe is not. Yes, Bledsoe is more accurate and may even have a better arm, but Eli has the moxy and pocket presence already that Bledsoe does not. I would, as would many other NFL fans, take Eli in a tight spot at the end of a game over Bledsoe any day of the week.

-Kurt Warner? He was benched in New York because of Eli. He is more inconsistent than Eli and despite having monster weapons in Arizona, he can't put together a solid season.

-Daunte Culpepper was one of, if not the worst starting QB in the league when he got hurt last season. I watched 3 of their films and the decisions he made were mind boggling at times. Add his torn up knee into the debate and you can't convince me that he is the QB that threw 40+ TDs. It seems to me that you are living in the past which is unfair because Eli has one full season as a starter.
Kurt Warner is not inconsistant, he played in only 10 games last season and averaged 273 yards per game and completed an excellent 65%. Warner is one of the most accurate QB's in NFL history, he is far from inconsistant. He just has been injured a lot lately, when healthy he is better than Eli.

I disagree with Daunte, He threw 8 ints in the first two games after that he started to calm down and was playing much better. It didnt help that he was being sacked every time he got the ball, didnt he get sacked 9 times in one game last year? I believe he was sacked like 31 times in 7 games, that is just mind boggling. Anyway, prior to injury he started to look more like himself again, he did finish the year completing 65% of his passes. Once again, i believe when healthy he is better than Eli.
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Old 08-30-2006, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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The thing about the pundits on ESPN is whenever they talk about Eli Manning, they seem to always say he could be a good QB, but he has to put it together and some doubt him.

But none that I've seen have ever said that Eli Manning has it all figured out and will be the best QB in the NFL next year. No one is saying that about Manning.

So again, how exactly is he overrated if everyone thinks he's still a year away?
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Go_Eli
The thing about the pundits on ESPN is whenever they talk about Eli Manning, they seem to always say he could be a good QB, but he has to put it together and some doubt him.

But none that I've seen have ever said that Eli Manning has it all figured out and will be the best QB in the NFL next year. No one is saying that about Manning.

So again, how exactly is he overrated if everyone thinks he's still a year away?
Just read a little bit. I believe even putting Eli in the top ten is overrating him and that is where most people have him. He has nothing on any of the Qb's I mentioned in front of him. Therefore he is overrated. At this point Eli is nothing more than a fantasy football Qb, he gets you lots of yards and a TD here and there but, thats it. I dont think you can make a logical argument that Eli, deserves to be ranked higher than any of these guys.
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
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Originally Posted by Go_Eli
The thing about the pundits on ESPN is whenever they talk about Eli Manning, they seem to always say he could be a good QB, but he has to put it together and some doubt him.

But none that I've seen have ever said that Eli Manning has it all figured out and will be the best QB in the NFL next year. No one is saying that about Manning.

So again, how exactly is he overrated if everyone thinks he's still a year away?
Just read a little bit. I believe even putting Eli in the top ten is overrating him and that is where most people have him. He has nothing on any of the Qb's I mentioned in front of him. Therefore he is overrated. At this point Eli is nothing more than a fantasy football Qb, he gets you lots of yards and a TD here and there but, thats it. I dont think you can make a logical argument that Eli, deserves to be ranked higher than any of these guys.
I would still put him above 8-10 on that list. I'd probably rank him exactly at 10. With Big Ben and a healthy Drew Brees ahead of him.
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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Eli being better than Daunte is laughable. No one could have played well in that situation in Minnesota last season. Eli is a good player and is on his way up, but he isn't there yet. I don't see him in that top 10 area, more in that 11-15 area.
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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I could see why many would put Culpepper ahead of Eli. I wouldn't. More because I'm not a fan of Culpepper rather than what I think Eli can do. Culpepper is a turnover machine. He is lucky they don't account for fumbles in a QB rating.
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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-Bledsoe vs. Eli has been debated here so many times, ugh. Basically it comes down to the fact that Eli is on his way up, Bledsoe is not. Yes, Bledsoe is more accurate and may even have a better arm, but Eli has the moxy and pocket presence already that Bledsoe does not. I would, as would many other NFL fans, take Eli in a tight spot at the end of a game over Bledsoe any day of the week.
And you would probably lose any day of the week, as well. This is one of the major overlooked factors from last year. Drew Bledsoe led 4th quarter/OT drives to either win the game or put his team in position to win it in week 1- at San Diego; week 3 at San Francisco; week 6 vs. NYG; week 10 at Philly; week 12 vs. Denver; week 14 vs. KC; and week 16 at Carolina. In each of these games, Bledsoe found himself in a tightly contested game (or way behind in a couple of them) and pulled his team around him to drive them down the field and get the winning points.

Yet what is the most prominent visual image in people's minds about him? The interception thrown against Seattle that set them up for a 50+ yard field goal in the ran and the slush that somehow Josh Brown drilled (his second of the game, the only such occurrence in the NFL in 06) as time expired to win it. This is the crap that Bledsoe has to put up with. Meanwhile, what do people remember the most about Eli? Probably the Denver game where he threw that last second TD with a guy in his face to win it, after they had been down the entire game. Funny really.

I won't start pulling out stats either, that would just embarrass you guys. I know that Eli is on the up swing, and that he very well might be a top QB in years to come, but there is no doubt that he has not currently done enough to deserve mention in the top 10, or probably even 15 QBs in this league. The stats bear that out, and if you want to use the "winning" argument, then you must also recognize that the combo of Byron Leftwich and Garrard are better than he is, because they won more games. Oh, and Kyle Orton is just as good, too.

Or you could just say, "You know what? Eli has looked great at times, and has a lot of promise, but I think I'm just going to wait for him to prove himself before I start touting him as one of the top QBs in the game". Then people would be much less likely to call you a homer. Here's my list of players that are better than Eli based upon what they have accomplished, given that they are healthy:

(in no particular order)
Peyton
Brady
Hasselbeck
Palmer
Bledsoe
Bulger
McNabb
Plummer
Brees
Green
Culpepper
Pennington
Roethlisberger

And then the players that are roughly on the same level:

Leftwich
Carr
McNair
Warner


I would list Brunell, based upon what he did last season, but he is D-U-N. He doesn't deserve to be anywhere near a list like this right now.
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Hm.

Can you show me where I say Eli is amongst the top QBs in the league? Saying he is top 10 is hardly the same as saying he is one of the top QBs in the league. What's with you guys and making things up to make your point seem stronger? If Giants fans were the only ones that felt this way about Eli, than you could be under the assumption that you have a point. But numerous fans around the league that actually watch Eli play more than twice a year tag him as a top 10 QB. I have been one of the more critical fans of Eli compared to some other fans and I know that he is still a ways away from being a top notch QB, but too many people fail to realize how solid he was in the first half until he got worn out and his targets started to get hurt.
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Hm.

Can you show me where I say Eli is amongst the top QBs in the league? Saying he is top 10 is hardly the same as saying he is one of the top QBs in the league. What's with you guys and making things up to make your point seem stronger? If Giants fans were the only ones that felt this way about Eli, than you could be under the assumption that you have a point. But numerous fans around the league that actually watch Eli play more than twice a year tag him as a top 10 QB. I have been one of the more critical fans of Eli compared to some other fans and I know that he is still a ways away from being a top notch QB, but too many people fail to realize how solid he was in the first half until he got worn out and his targets started to get hurt.
He was pretty inconsistant all season, maybe you should check out his 05, game log.
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Old 08-30-2006, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
Hm.

Can you show me where I say Eli is amongst the top QBs in the league? Saying he is top 10 is hardly the same as saying he is one of the top QBs in the league. What's with you guys and making things up to make your point seem stronger? If Giants fans were the only ones that felt this way about Eli, than you could be under the assumption that you have a point. But numerous fans around the league that actually watch Eli play more than twice a year tag him as a top 10 QB. I have been one of the more critical fans of Eli compared to some other fans and I know that he is still a ways away from being a top notch QB, but too many people fail to realize how solid he was in the first half until he got worn out and his targets started to get hurt.
He was pretty inconsistant all season, maybe you should check out his 05, game log.
He was CLEARLY better in the first half. He had a bad game against the 'Skins, but the rest of the first 8 games were from average to above average.

And who are you to talk about inconistency? Bledsoe was the model of consistency in the first half and you could use the excuse for Eli that he was a first year starter.
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Old 08-30-2006, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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I won't start pulling out stats either, that would just embarrass you guys.
How so? Everyone knows Eli's completion percentage was bad. I'm hoping and I think it will improve this year but that isn't the point. Bledsoe's completion percentage was a lot better, but if that doesn't turn into more wins, more TDs, more yards, and less interceptions, then does it really matter?
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Old 08-30-2006, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Hm.

Can you show me where I say Eli is amongst the top QBs in the league? Saying he is top 10 is hardly the same as saying he is one of the top QBs in the league. What's with you guys and making things up to make your point seem stronger? If Giants fans were the only ones that felt this way about Eli, than you could be under the assumption that you have a point. But numerous fans around the league that actually watch Eli play more than twice a year tag him as a top 10 QB. I have been one of the more critical fans of Eli compared to some other fans and I know that he is still a ways away from being a top notch QB, but too many people fail to realize how solid he was in the first half until he got worn out and his targets started to get hurt.
So now you want to argue semantics, eh? There are upwards of 100 QBs currently "in" the NFL. Just being good enough to start marks you as somewhere in the top 25-35%, so that would be at least a "good" QB, which Eli is. But if you are in the top 8 or 9 percent of all QBs, that means you are among the best. At least it would mean that to me. Usually the word "elite" denotes the very cream of the cream, which has not been used. Anyway, regardless of what sophistrical manuevering you want to make, Eli is not among the top 10 anyhow. By the end of this season, he might clearly be. But right now there is no way that you can prove it. Stats don't show it. Neither do wins (unless we want to argue that Kyle Orton is in the top 10 as well). He sure doesn't have as much on his resume as some of these other top guys. I don't know how you would argue it.

Oh, and please, for your sake, don't try to patronize me with the "have watched him play" argument that all fans use to try and ward off critics from their players. I owned him in my experts league last year, and I lived and died by how he played. As you should know, I ended up dead.
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Old 08-30-2006, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Hm.

Can you show me where I say Eli is amongst the top QBs in the league? Saying he is top 10 is hardly the same as saying he is one of the top QBs in the league. What's with you guys and making things up to make your point seem stronger? If Giants fans were the only ones that felt this way about Eli, than you could be under the assumption that you have a point. But numerous fans around the league that actually watch Eli play more than twice a year tag him as a top 10 QB. I have been one of the more critical fans of Eli compared to some other fans and I know that he is still a ways away from being a top notch QB, but too many people fail to realize how solid he was in the first half until he got worn out and his targets started to get hurt.
So now you want to argue semantics, eh? There are upwards of 100 QBs currently "in" the NFL. Just being good enough to start marks you as somewhere in the top 25-35%, so that would be at least a "good" QB, which Eli is. But if you are in the top 8 or 9 percent of all QBs, that means you are among the best. At least it would mean that to me. Usually the word "elite" denotes the very cream of the cream, which has not been used. Anyway, regardless of what sophistrical manuevering you want to make, Eli is not among the top 10 anyhow. By the end of this season, he might clearly be. But right now there is no way that you can prove it. Stats don't show it. Neither do wins (unless we want to argue that Kyle Orton is in the top 10 as well). He sure doesn't have as much on his resume as some of these other top guys. I don't know how you would argue it.

Oh, and please, for your sake, don't try to patronize me with the "have watched him play" argument that all fans use to try and ward off critics from their players. I owned him in my experts league last year, and I lived and died by how he played. As you should know, I ended up dead.
The elite QBs are usually the top 3-5 QBs in the league, which Eli is not close to, enough said. And the Eli-Orton debate is one of the weakest debates you could think of because Eli had a combination of wins, clutch play, and stats. And I base my rankings on who I would rather have for this upcoming season and if that irks you, then so be it. But I'll take Eli over Warner, Bledsoe and Big Ben for the 2006 season.
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Old 08-30-2006, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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-Bledsoe vs. Eli has been debated here so many times, ugh. Basically it comes down to the fact that Eli is on his way up, Bledsoe is not. Yes, Bledsoe is more accurate and may even have a better arm, but Eli has the moxy and pocket presence already that Bledsoe does not. I would, as would many other NFL fans, take Eli in a tight spot at the end of a game over Bledsoe any day of the week.
And you would probably lose any day of the week, as well. This is one of the major overlooked factors from last year. Drew Bledsoe led 4th quarter/OT drives to either win the game or put his team in position to win it in week 1- at San Diego; week 3 at San Francisco; week 6 vs. NYG; week 10 at Philly; week 12 vs. Denver; week 14 vs. KC; and week 16 at Carolina. In each of these games, Bledsoe found himself in a tightly contested game (or way behind in a couple of them) and pulled his team around him to drive them down the field and get the winning points.

Yet what is the most prominent visual image in people's minds about him? The interception thrown against Seattle that set them up for a 50+ yard field goal in the ran and the slush that somehow Josh Brown drilled (his second of the game, the only such occurrence in the NFL in 06) as time expired to win it. This is the crap that Bledsoe has to put up with. Meanwhile, what do people remember the most about Eli? Probably the Denver game where he threw that last second TD with a guy in his face to win it, after they had been down the entire game. Funny really.

I won't start pulling out stats either, that would just embarrass you guys. I know that Eli is on the up swing, and that he very well might be a top QB in years to come, but there is no doubt that he has not currently done enough to deserve mention in the top 10, or probably even 15 QBs in this league. The stats bear that out, and if you want to use the "winning" argument, then you must also recognize that the combo of Byron Leftwich and Garrard are better than he is, because they won more games. Oh, and Kyle Orton is just as good, too.

Or you could just say, "You know what? Eli has looked great at times, and has a lot of promise, but I think I'm just going to wait for him to prove himself before I start touting him as one of the top QBs in the game". Then people would be much less likely to call you a homer. Here's my list of players that are better than Eli based upon what they have accomplished, given that they are healthy:

(in no particular order)
Peyton
Brady
Hasselbeck
Palmer
Bledsoe
Bulger
McNabb
Plummer
Brees
Green
Culpepper
Pennington
Roethlisberger

And then the players that are roughly on the same level:

Leftwich
Carr
McNair
Warner


I would list Brunell, based upon what he did last season, but he is D-U-N. He doesn't deserve to be anywhere near a list like this right now.
Putting Eli on the same level as Carr is simply unfair. Seriously...David Carr? Talk about someone who has to prove his worth...Carr has more to prove than Eli...David Carr? Seriously, that was being a little homerish on your part.

And Chad is not better than Eli...not anymore at least. The man cannot throw it beyond 20 yards. And I personally take Eli over Plummer anyday as well. Other than that, I have no complaints, but those I disagree on.
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