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Old 10-17-2006, 05:28 PM    (permalink
 
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I don't like any of the teams in the east, so I can't be biased on this pick. I had to go with the Eagles. They may not have the most popular names on the Offense, but they seem to put up big numbers and get the job done.
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Old 10-17-2006, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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I think I was cautiously optimistic about the Eagles. I remain at that stage because the O cannot (or is not allowed to) kill the clock at the end of games. It has hurt the team quite a bit. It looks like the Eagles really can tee off and run over some people, but they haven't done so. Bah!
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Old 10-17-2006, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Did people underestimate the Eagles or what? 7 votes :shock:
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Old 10-17-2006, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
Draftguru is my boy, so he gets a pass, especially since the NFC East isn't his personal division so he doesn't know it as well as we do.

But MOTH GOT OWNED....oh man, that was "uber pwnage", lol.

I see Number 10 was keeping this thread in his backpocket for awhile now. You shouldve saved it for a little later, like after the Giants/Cowboys game, that wouldve been the perfect time to whip this thread out.
Couldn't resist the urge and I want him to come out and say Bledsoe is still better. That is if he has the balls to post in this thread, because I know he'll be reading it.
He still rips Eli whenever he can. I believe he said in the Cowboys thread that "Eli still sucks" or something.
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Old 10-17-2006, 05:30 PM    (permalink
 
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Was this poll made before the Stallworth acquisition?
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Old 10-17-2006, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Was this poll made before the Stallworth acquisition?
I believe so.
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
I'd like to refresh some memories.



Quote:
Originally Posted by draftguru151
Eli being better than Daunte is laughable. No one could have played well in that situation in Minnesota last season. Eli is a good player and is on his way up, but he isn't there yet. I don't see him in that top 10 area, more in that 11-15 area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I find it pointless to give you indivisual explanations on each player. Just look at what they have done in the league and there is no way you can rank Eli higher than any of these guys.

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Carson Palmer
4. Matt Hasselback
5. Trent Green
6. Donavan Mcnabb
7. Jake Delhomme
8. Drew Bledsoe
9. Kurt Warner
10. Daunte Culpepper

Look at every Qb here, all have exceptional completion percentages and they all read defenses with ease. I dont know how you can make an argument that Eli is better than any of these Qbs right now.
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Well by "experts" I meant some of the posters on here, just check out the Eli vs Peyton thread or whatever it's called. The point I'm trying to make is that he is indeed overrated, he hasnt done anything to deserve such praise. He shouldnt be mentioned in the top tier of QB's yet, although he is, even with credible sports analysts. As for the whole Bledsoe/Eli debate, the only thing I believe Eli has on Bledsoe is a little more mobility, that is it.
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
Next season I will take Bledsoe over Eli and day of the week.
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I'm sick of hearing that the Cowboys line is so bad. They have a completly different O-Line this year, there is no way of knowing if they will be lousy as of right now. Former Pro Bowler Flozell Adams is now healthy, we have a new LG, we have a new C, Marco Rivera is at 100%, and we have a new RT.

As for Bledsoe, he may not be mobile but, he is the most accurate QB in the NFC East, yes even better than Mcnabb. T.O. and the new double TE offense is only going to give him more time and is only going to help him.

Lets do a comparison. (I'll exclude Mcnabb because, he didnt play everygame last year)

2005 stats

Bledsoe 300-499 60.1% 3639 yards 23 Tds 17 INTS

Brunell 262-454 57.7% 3050 yards 23 Tds 10 INTS

Manning 294-557 52.8% 3762 yards 24 Tds 17 INTS

All three put up similar numbers last year but, what stands out is bledsoe's completeion percentage. This is without T.O. what do you think he will do with him?

My QB rankings:

1. Mcnabb
2. Bledsoe
3. Brunell
4. Manning (I'm telling you if he didnt have the 6'5 Plax, he wouldnt have thrown for over 50%.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Worst QB? How is Eli or Brunell better than Bledsoe? please explain.
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Redskins have best OL, best WR's, best RB and brunell is 2nd best QB. its the redskins
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I dont expect Eli to be any better this year, in fact I think he will be the Giants downfall. From what I've seen in preseason, Eli doesnt look to be anymore accurate than he was last season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by draftguru151
Redskins and I don't think it is close. They have possible the best OL in the league, and the best OT duo if nothing else. Brunell had a pro bowl caliber season last year. The have a good trio of WRs in Moss, Randle El, and Lloyd. Cooley is a great TE, and Sellers is a very good FB. Oh yea, and I forgot they have a top 5 RB (if not higher) in Clinton Portis.
So.....just to clarify, what's your point? Iirc, your offensive team has been downright horrible several times this year. You choked against the Colts, got your ass handed to you on a platter against the Iggs for 3 quarters of futility, got blown out and disgraced by the Seahawks before mounting an absolute ton of garbage yards in the last 25 mins of the game, weren't able to get it in the end zone against the Skins and their horrendous secondary and then got shut down YET AGAIN in the first half against the Falcons. I'm trying to understand exactly what your point is.

Is it the Eli debate? So far he has cost you, him personally, both of your losses this season. He threw the game clinching Int against the Colts on just a horrible duck-floater of a pass that should never be thrown, he gave away the game with picks against the Seahawks with a barrage of Ints (and a couple more were even dropped) AND his early bone head play was largely responsible for that huge deficit against the Eagles, altough he seems to have gotten some sort of pass because of his late heroics. Why exactly does this validate your argument?

Oh, I know, it's because of stats. Because he has a 92 QB rating and a good comp %, right? Because he has a lot of yards and shiny things to point at. Because he threw for 200+ yards and 3 TDs after the game was out of reach in the late 3rd and 4th quarters of the Seattle game. Because he yanked his wank for 40 minutes against the Eagles before deciding to show up and play. I could go on all day.

This is a joke. The only people who have a right to come in here and gloat are the Eagles fans who knew that they had something good going, but were the victims of the stupid hype machine that only recognizes "name value". They were universally discarded as a non-factor in this discussion, and so far have been the runaway winners. McNabb has been Mcnificent. Westbrook has been unstoppable, Smith is coming into his own and their recievers have worked well as a group without getting any individual accolades. You could start by acknowledging how stupid you (and all the rest of us) were for over looking all these things before you come in here and gloat about something that is still very much up in the air.

The only two things we know right now are 1) Philly is much better than anyone gave them credit for and are the early favorites for best offense in the division and 2) Washington was over-hyped and under-talented like they are seemingly every year. Unlike the first point, there were at least a few on this thread that predicted the second (including yours truly).

That said, don't think that I'm bagging on Eli. He has pretty much done what I expected out of him. He has improved his accuracy quite a bit, though he still throws floaters from time to time. That final throw against Philly was a quintessential Eli moment. That's what he has it in him to be. He will never be the surgeon type that Peyton is, though he does have a moxy and friskiness about him that comes out on the biggest stages. But don't think he's done anything yet.

Also, don't bother throwing out all the things about Dallas that have cost us up to this point. I recognize and fully understand the problems that our team has encountered, specifically regarding Bledsoe and his struggles. The bottom line, though, is points scored. That's what an offense is supposed to do. On that count, here is the score to date:

Philly: 29.8
Dallas: 29.4
NYG: 25.4
Foreskins: 19.7

We'll see how things go moving forward.
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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Are Eli and Bledsoe still on the same level in your eyes?
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Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
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These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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You choked against the Colts
Sometimes I wonder if you watch the games. No where did we choke against the Colts. It was actually a very tight game and the better team won. Which we weren't.

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Because he yanked his wank for 40 minutes against the Eagles before deciding to show up and play. I could go on all day.
That couldn't be further from the truth. For most of the game Eli was the only one who showed up to play. I think he was 10 of 18 with a TD in the first half even after being sacked a crab load of times. Tiki didn't show up that day, the O-line didn't show up that day, only Eli did! He was horrible agasint the Seahawks, but at no point at any time in the defecit to the Eagles was Eli playing horrible. What he did was despite constant pressure all day and being sacked 8 times, he single handedly won that game. Him and Toomer. Something Bledsoe could not do in almost the exact same situation.

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AND his early bone head play was largely responsible for that huge deficit against the Eagles
What play is this?
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Giants... Tiki is rediculous and probably the best RB in that divison. Plax is a great receiver, best TE in the NFC, Eli is coming on, decent line, great second receiver in toomer and an up and comer in sinorice.
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Old 10-17-2006, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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number 10, it looks like you've aroused my attention once again. I cant see how I've been "owned" in any way. Last time I checked, it was week 7, the season is far from over my friend. You act like Eli has been so impressive, he has just as many ints as Bledsoe. Right now, i will give Eli the benefit of the doubt, at this moment he is the second best in the division, with bledsoe in 3rd. I honestly believe this is subject to change, I dont like to make excuses but, many arguments can be brought up to justify Bledsoe's slow start. 1. T.O./Bledsoe not on the same page (T.O. missed an extensive amount of time and it has hurt them on the field.) 2. The wet ball/field conditions (It has rained in three of our five games this year and it has had an effect) 3. O-Line (Did you watch the Eagles game?)
Now, I'll admit Eli has looked better this season, last time I checked he was hovering around 65%, even though 22 of those balls went to a a rarely covered Tiki Barber, that is still pretty impressive. but, with over half a season to go, a lot can change.

As of right now...

1. Mcnabb
2. Eli
3. Bledsoe
4. Brunell

Call me crazy but, I would still take Drew over Eli. If Eli was our QB in that Eagles game, i think things would have been much worse.
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Old 10-17-2006, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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You choked against the Colts
Sometimes I wonder if you watch the games. No where did we choke against the Colts. It was actually a very tight game and the better team won. Which we weren't.
So that lame duck of a pass that ended the game couldn't be classified as choking? Ok, my bad.

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Originally Posted by Jughead10
Quote:
Because he yanked his wank for 40 minutes against the Eagles before deciding to show up and play. I could go on all day.
That couldn't be further from the truth. For most of the game Eli was the only one who showed up to play. I think he was 10 of 18 with a TD in the first half even after being sacked a crab load of times. Tiki didn't show up that day, the O-line didn't show up that day, only Eli did! He was horrible agasint the Seahawks, but at no point at any time in the defecit to the Eagles was Eli playing horrible. What he did was despite constant pressure all day and being sacked 8 times, he single handedly won that game. Him and Toomer. Something Bledsoe could not do in almost the exact same situation.
Don't twist the stats please. They came out and went right down the field. Eli was, I believe, 5/6 with a TD on the drive. That accounts for most of his stats. If our memories are correct, that would mean that between the end of the first drive and the middle of the 3rd he was about 5/12 with no TDs and a pick or two. Don't make it sound like he was out there on fire and his guys weren't rallying around him. He looked like ass. I watched the game just like you did.

Still, the fact that he could play that badly and still turn things around is actually a credit to his name. Not an easy thing to do. And, no, Bledsoe could (at least I don't think so) not do the same in the same situation. That is part of what I explained was the difference between the two. It is actually one of Eli's biggest strengths.

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Originally Posted by Jughead10
Quote:
AND his early bone head play was largely responsible for that huge deficit against the Eagles
What play is this?
I think your misinterpreting my use of the word "play". I mean his level of play in general. I was not referring to a specific throw or anything of that nature.
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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So that lame duck of a pass that ended the game couldn't be classified as choking? Ok, my bad.
What about that perfect pass to Tim Carter that got called back because of a terrible flag? Want to mention that one too, but if the refs actually made the right call, the Giants win that game.

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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Don't twist the stats please. They came out and went right down the field. Eli was, I believe, 5/6 with a TD on the drive. That accounts for most of his stats. If our memories are correct, that would mean that between the end of the first drive and the middle of the 3rd he was about 5/12 with no TDs and a pick or two. Don't make it sound like he was out there on fire and his guys weren't rallying around him. He looked like ass. I watched the game just like you did.
After the first drive, Manning was 6/11 with 5 sacks. The INT came in the 4th quarter.

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Originally Posted by Jughead10
I think your misinterpreting my use of the word "play". I mean his level of play in general. I was not referring to a specific throw or anything of that nature.
Against the Eagles? Man, he was the only one that came to play. If Manning didn't show up to play that day, then the running game, offensive line, and defense didn't even make the trip.
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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Don't twist the stats please. They came out and went right down the field. Eli was, I believe, 5/6 with a TD on the drive. That accounts for most of his stats. If our memories are correct, that would mean that between the end of the first drive and the middle of the 3rd he was about 5/12 with no TDs and a pick or two. Don't make it sound like he was out there on fire and his guys weren't rallying around him. He looked like ass. I watched the game just like you did.
Obviously you didn't because he only threw one pick and it was in the 4th quarter. If you want to refer to someone looking like ass, pop in the Dallas tape against the Eagles and keep an eye on Bledsoe.
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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Call me crazy but, I would still take Drew over Eli. If Eli was our QB in that Eagles game, i think things would have been much worse.
How so. The situations were pretty similar and Eli won. The Eagles defense got at Eli just as much as they did to Bledsoe. Eli got sacked 8 times and was pressured just as much yet he found a way to win that game.

I may have a homer tag next to me, given by a fellow cowgirl fan, but I can't believe some crap I'm reading. I actually thought the Cowboys fans were pretty intelligent, minus the whole Bledsoe better than Eli thing, but our game week comes up and they sure as hell turn for the worse.
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Call me crazy but, I would still take Drew over Eli. If Eli was our QB in that Eagles game, i think things would have been much worse.
How so. The situations were pretty similar and Eli won. The Eagles defense got at Eli just as much as they did to Bledsoe. Eli got sacked 8 times and was pressured just as much yet he found a way to win that game.

I may have a homer tag next to me, given by a fellow cowgirl fan, but I can't believe some crap I'm reading. I actually thought the Cowboys fans were pretty intelligent, minus the whole Bledsoe better than Eli thing, but our game week comes up and they sure as hell turn for the worse.
Whats wrong with taking a proven Qb with 40,000+ yards and 250 Tds under his belt over a third year Qb, that has a tendency to overthrow 6'5 receivers. nothing.

I just like Bledsoe more, that doesnt make me a homer.

Eli doesnt drop back much faster than Bledsoe, i dont think he would have had any more success with how the boys line played that game.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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My main problem with Eli is that he's such a slow starter. If you were to get all of his first half stats he would be one of the worst qb's in the NFL. If you took his second half stats he's one of the better qb's. He puts the team in a hole early and then has to dig them back out of it. That will not work if they are playing a team with a defense like the Ravens Chargers or Bears.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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My main problem with Eli is that he's such a slow starter. If you were to get all of his first half stats he would be one of the worst qb's in the NFL. If you took his second half stats he's one of the better qb's. He puts the team in a hole early and then has to dig them back out of it. That will not work if they are playing a team with a defense like the Ravens Chargers or Bears.
It's really only the first quarter he's struggled with

CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
1st Qtr 13 28 147 46.4 5.25 44 1 4 4.0 35.0 0 0 0.0 0 0
2nd Qtr 30 44 384 68.2 8.73 46 1 1 4.0 93.4 0 0 0.0 0 0
3rd Qtr 26 41 280 63.4 6.83 21 3 0 1.0 107.8 1 0 0.0 0 0
4th Qtr 38 55 435 69.1 7.91 33 5 2 0.0 107.8 4 6 1.5 9 0
Overtime 8 8 83 100.0 10.38 31 1 0 2.0 149.5 0 0 0.0 0 0
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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My main problem with Eli is that he's such a slow starter. If you were to get all of his first half stats he would be one of the worst qb's in the NFL. If you took his second half stats he's one of the better qb's. He puts the team in a hole early and then has to dig them back out of it. That will not work if they are playing a team with a defense like the Ravens Chargers or Bears.
It's really only the first quarter he's struggled with

CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
1st Qtr 13 28 147 46.4 5.25 44 1 4 4.0 35.0 0 0 0.0 0 0
2nd Qtr 30 44 384 68.2 8.73 46 1 1 4.0 93.4 0 0 0.0 0 0
3rd Qtr 26 41 280 63.4 6.83 21 3 0 1.0 107.8 1 0 0.0 0 0
4th Qtr 38 55 435 69.1 7.91 33 5 2 0.0 107.8 4 6 1.5 9 0
Overtime 8 8 83 100.0 10.38 31 1 0 2.0 149.5 0 0 0.0 0 0
Yea I agree he makes too many mistakes in the first quarter, and then doesn't get much done to make up for it in the second so I say he has a problem in the first half of the games. In the second half he makes up for it somewhat, but my point is that the Giants this season have seemed to be trailing at halftime quite a bit.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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I am humored by how the Cowboys fans nitpick Eli. It's hilarious.

No he hasn't put together an untouchable season to this point, but he is EASILY outplaying Bledsoe and it isn't even close to being close.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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Call me crazy but, I would still take Drew over Eli. If Eli was our QB in that Eagles game, i think things would have been much worse.
How so. The situations were pretty similar and Eli won. The Eagles defense got at Eli just as much as they did to Bledsoe. Eli got sacked 8 times and was pressured just as much yet he found a way to win that game.

I may have a homer tag next to me, given by a fellow cowgirl fan, but I can't believe some crap I'm reading. I actually thought the Cowboys fans were pretty intelligent, minus the whole Bledsoe better than Eli thing, but our game week comes up and they sure as hell turn for the worse.
Whats wrong with taking a proven Qb with 40,000+ yards and 250 Tds under his belt over a third year Qb, that has a tendency to overthrow 6'5 receivers. nothing.

I just like Bledsoe more, that doesnt make me a homer.

Eli doesnt drop back much faster than Bledsoe, i dont think he would have had any more success with how the boys line played that game.
I guess you aren't comprehending what I am saying. The Giants line played the same way as your boys' line when we played the Eagles. The Eagles sacked and pressured Eli just as much as they did to Bledsoe. And Eli did in fact have more sucess. He won the game.

Also 40,000 yards and 250+ TDs mean nothing now. He isn't that QB anymore. He was never that amazing of a QB. He was a compiler. Similar to Martin and Bettis at RB.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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I would rank them as 1. Eagles 2. Giants 3. Cowboys 4. Redskins.

In response to the previous poster I think Bledsoe was at one point a very good and maybe even great QB but obviously his skillls have eroded quite a lot since then.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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number 10, it looks like you've aroused my attention once again. I cant see how I've been "owned" in any way. Last time I checked, it was week 7, the season is far from over my friend. You act like Eli has been so impressive, he has just as many ints as Bledsoe. Right now, i will give Eli the benefit of the doubt, at this moment he is the second best in the division, with bledsoe in 3rd. I honestly believe this is subject to change, I dont like to make excuses but, many arguments can be brought up to justify Bledsoe's slow start. 1. T.O./Bledsoe not on the same page (T.O. missed an extensive amount of time and it has hurt them on the field.) 2. The wet ball/field conditions (It has rained in three of our five games this year and it has had an effect) 3. O-Line (Did you watch the Eagles game?)
Now, I'll admit Eli has looked better this season, last time I checked he was hovering around 65%, even though 22 of those balls went to a a rarely covered Tiki Barber, that is still pretty impressive. but, with over half a season to go, a lot can change.

As of right now...

1. Mcnabb
2. Eli
3. Bledsoe
4. Brunell

Call me crazy but, I would still take Drew over Eli. If Eli was our QB in that Eagles game, i think things would have been much worse.
So if the 2 QBs play the same way from here on out, will you agree that Eli is at a higher level than Drew?
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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And to all of you that are attempting to bring up Eli's first quarter struggles, give me a break. Isn't this why we play 4 quarters? Is Eli a bad QB and is the Giants offense poor because they have not played well in the first quarter? That is why the game is 4 quarters long people!!! What is so difficult to take in there? For every time you want to bash Eli and the couple of bad starts he has had, you have to praise him for his play late in games when the game is on the line and when the team needs a hero.
I brought up his first quarter struggles but I am in no way saying that he is a bad qb. I'm saying that eventually if that doesn't improve he is going to get himself into trouble against tough defenses, especially if the Giants were to make it to the playoffs. He is no MVP candidate like I have heard it said, but he is CERTAINLY better than Bledsoe.
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