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View Poll Results: Who deserves a title shot more?
Quinton "Rampage" Jackson 12 30.77%
Lyoto "Dragon" Machida 27 69.23%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-19-2009, 01:02 AM    (permalink
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I still think Silva's jiu-jitsu is beyond underated, people acted like leites was going to take him down and have his way.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:02 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Charm City Byrdgang View Post
Of course you base P4P rankings off previous fights, WTF kind of question is that? What else would you base it on? They don't rank people one a one fight by one fight basis.

On the topic of GSP beating Silva, I love those who bust out those crystal balls that predict the future, why even watch the fights if you know the outcomes before they happen?
I meant to say that from Silva's performance in his last two fights, there's no way he should be even considered at the top. About fighting GSP, i'm probably just pissed that I spent my Saturday night watching Silva screw around again, but GSP certainly would make it more interesting than Leites did.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
As a boxing fan, there really isn't anything boring to me about watching a bout like that. Anderson was a flawless tactician tonight.
Uh, no. This isn't Paul Williams grinding out a decision. This is De La Hoya taking the last 3 rounds off against trinidad(Without trinidad being a threat, of course.)
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jared View Post
Two things to preface this post:
1) A. Silva is a fantastic fighter
2) Thales Leites had no business challenging for the title.

That fight tonight was weak sauce. It most certainly was not a "dominant" performance by Silva. I think Silva threw about 8 punches in 5 rounds, that is inactivity. Dominance is when you actually achieve something. At no point did Leites ever look to be in serious trouble. Simply frustrating your opponent's floppy takedowns does not qualify as dominance. I will criticize Leites for coming in with half-assed guard pulling as his only hail mary strategy. However, Silva is 7x the stand-up fighter that he is. The fact that he made absolutely no attempt to engage Leites other than some funky knee kicks when 98% of the fight took place standing up is inexcusable. Leites is a BJJ guy. Leites constantly pulling guard is like saying "waaahh, please take the fight exactly where I'm most comfortable or else I'm not gonna play with you". Silva is a counterstriker. He sat back and did the exact same thing: waiting for Leites to play into HIS strengths without leaving his comfort zone for a second. He mounted virtually no offense whatsoever even though he could and should have kicked Leites' head into the stratosphere by the 2nd round. Frankly Silva's BJJ is probably almost as good if not equal to Leites'. His striking is on another plane entirely. This is not the mark of a dominant P4P fighter in my eyes.

Wasn't this the same Anderson Silva that was supposedly SOooo pissed after the fan backlash from his awkward Cote fight? What a joke. He did the exact same thing: some hotdogging and tentative strikes with no attempt to mount an offensive at all.
I have no issue with people not enjoying the fight, it was a major let down to me as well. I don't know if Silva has something going on in his life, or what, there was a lot of head scratchers with him, from coming in at 3 pounds under weight, to the lack of intensity, and the killer instinct he usually displays. But to me clearly winning all 5 rounds without taking even the slightest bit of damage is dominating you opponent. Was it his most dominant performance? Not even close.

I just think its comical how quickly people jump off a bandwagon, With this decision, Anderson broke a 10 fight streak in which he finished every opponent without reaching a judges decision (not counting the Cote fight). GSP can't stake claim to a record like that, hell GSP is only on a 5 fight win streak in general. Yet one decision and Anderson is being dropped on P4P lists.

also LOL @ the bold part, Silva has I'd say above average Jiu Jitsu, where as Leites is world class.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Charm City Byrdgang View Post
I have no issue with people not enjoying the fight, it was a major let down to me as well. I don't know if Silva has something going on in his life, or what, there was a lot of head scratchers with him, from coming in at 3 pounds under weight, to the lack of intensity, and the killer instinct he usually displays. But to me clearly winning all 5 rounds without taking even the slightest bit of damage is dominating you opponent. Was it his most dominant performance? Not even close.

I just think its comical how quickly people jump off a bandwagon, With this decision, Anderson broke a streak in which he finished every opponent without reaching a judges decision (not counting the Cote fight). GSP can't stake claim to a record like that, hell GSP is only on a 5 fight win streak in general. Yet one decision and Anderson is being dropped on P4P lists.

also LOL @ the bold part, Silva has I'd say above average Jiu Jitsu, where as Leites is world class.

To be fair I've never been a huge Silva guy, MW is by far the weakest of the non-HW divisions and he definitely CAN be subbed.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:17 AM    (permalink
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My point is simply that as a dominant striker in a fight that took place predominantly on its feet, Silva should have done far more, especially if he wants to be considered a dominant champion. No he did not take much damage but he didn't dish much out either aside from a bloody nose and a few kicks aimed at the knee. They both could have fought for 16 more rounds at the pace they were maintaining.

And Silva has very good BJJ, especially in the context of an MMA match. Perhaps we should differentiate between MMA jits and submission grappling jits. There can be something lost in translation there. Leites is not Demian Maia. Seriously, what is his amazing BJJ pedigree other than beating Machado in an MMA bout?
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:19 AM    (permalink
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To be fair I've never been a huge Silva guy, MW is by far the weakest of the non-HW divisions and he definitely CAN be subbed.
I honestly think Anderson is bored at MW, no one presents a challenge to him. I know Wandy is posturing for an eventual fight with him but I think Wandy would actually initiate a stand up fight with Anderson, and Wandy would get KO-ed in the dominant fashion you all want to see. You're damn right Anderson can get subbed, it's happened more than once, Could that be the reason he was so cautious? Who knows, you can be a lot more careless with you striking when you are fighting a guy like Rich Franklin and you know you aren't going to be taken down.

The 182 pound weigh in puzzles me, it makes me wonder if he was sick, or perhaps sending a message that maybe 170 is an option, or perhaps a catch weight for a GSP fight, or maybe even a new weight class? I know there has been talk about a 195 weight class or even a 220 weight class. I think a fight against GSP or a fight against a top 10 LHW is what Anderson needs to stop toying with opponents and finish them.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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My point is simply that as a dominant striker in a fight that took place predominantly on its feet, Silva should have done far more, especially if he wants to be considered a dominant champion. No he did not take much damage but he didn't dish much out either aside from a bloody nose and a few kicks aimed at the knee. They both could have fought for 16 more rounds at the pace they were maintaining.

And Silva has very good BJJ, especially in the context of an MMA match. Perhaps we should differentiate between MMA jits and submission grappling jits. There can be something lost in translation there. Leites is not Demian Maia. Seriously, what is his amazing BJJ pedigree other than beating Machado in an MMA bout?
Leites wasn't going to make it 16 rounds, don't over exaggerate. I agree, Silva could of done more, and I would like to know the story behind his performance because I know there has to be one. But that still doesn't change the fact that this fight was completely one sided which = domination. Part of me wonders if Thales and Silva have some sort of relationship outside the cage, which could lead Silva to want to pick up the win without putting Leites in the hospital? Who knows.

Leites BJJ isn't as good as Demian Maia's, but that is almost like saying Reggie Miller wasn't Michael Jordan. Does that mean Reggie Reg wasn't one of the best in the game? No, it just means he was ******* great but MJ is greater. Leites has world class jiu jitsu, probably top 5 in the UFC, after guys like Maia, BJ Penn, etc... and I realize there is a difference between practicing BJJ with and without being punched in the face, but Thales has shown his BJJ translates well into MMA in other fights.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:47 AM    (permalink
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Leites wasn't going to make it 16 rounds, don't over exaggerate. I agree, Silva could of done more, and I would like to know the story behind his performance because I know there has to be one. But that still doesn't change the fact that this fight was completely one sided which = domination. Part of me wonders if Thales and Silva have some sort of relationship outside the cage, which could lead Silva to want to pick up the win without putting Leites in the hospital? Who knows.

Leites BJJ isn't as good as Demian Maia's, but that is almost like saying Reggie Miller wasn't Michael Jordan. Does that mean Reggie Reg wasn't one of the best in the game? No, it just means he was ******* great but MJ is greater. Leites has world class jiu jitsu, probably top 5 in the UFC, after guys like Maia, BJ Penn, etc... and I realize there is a difference between practicing BJJ with and without being punched in the face, but Thales has shown his BJJ translates well into MMA in other fights.
Of course that was an exaggeration but c'mon, neither one was really pushing the pace there. For the record, I think it was pretty inexcusable that even in the last round, Leites wasn't trying to put the pressure on. Make no mistake though, what Silva displayed tonight was not dominance, it was complacency. As I said, he made no effort whatsoever to finish the fight, I really don't think you can argue that point. He's still a great fighter, but something was off tonight, as it was with Cote. He certainly did nothing to erase the concerns/criticisms that fans had from his last fight.

As for Leites' vaunted jits, I don't know. Submitting Drew McFedries and Ryan Jensen doesn't do much for me. Nog, Dustin Hazelett, Maia, Lister, Penn, Mir have all shown more in the way of offensive jits in an MMA environment. But frankly, looking through the UFC fighter ranks, not that many guys stand out for their submission skills so you may be right, Leites may indeed be top 5. However, the BJJ disparity between him and Silva (particularly in an MMA match) is not very much IMO.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:52 AM    (permalink
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I almost want to blame the poor performance on the match making. You pair a counter striker up with a BJJ guy what do you expect to happen? Both fighters stuck to what wins them fights and a dull performance is what came out of it.
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:00 AM    (permalink
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Of course that was an exaggeration but c'mon, neither one was really pushing the pace there. For the record, I think it was pretty inexcusable that even in the last round, Leites wasn't trying to put the pressure on. Make no mistake though, what Silva displayed tonight was not dominance, it was complacency. As I said, he made no effort whatsoever to finish the fight, I really don't think you can argue that point. He's still a great fighter, but something was off tonight, as it was with Cote. He certainly did nothing to erase the concerns/criticisms that fans had from his last fight.

As for Leites' vaunted jits, I don't know. Submitting Drew McFedries and Ryan Jensen doesn't do much for me. Nog, Dustin Hazelett, Maia, Lister, Penn, Mir have all shown more in the way of offensive jits in an MMA environment. But frankly, looking through the UFC fighter ranks, not that many guys stand out for their submission skills so you may be right, Leites may indeed be top 5. However, the BJJ disparity between him and Silva (particularly in an MMA match) is not very much IMO.
Leites' jits respect comes from the competitions he won back in Brazil. I think it's more based on that than his wins. I think it's more of him not doing anything to damage that rep than anything. I'dlove to see him and Rousimar Palhares fight. Both guys are pretty strong on the ground.
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:09 AM    (permalink
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**** ****** streams and **** ****** residence internet connection.

Shogun's back!!!

That is all.
So many people have caught on to watching the PPV's online that its almost impossible to find a stream that works since all of them have thousands upon thousands of viewers trying to get on at the same time. Its like expecting this site to be just as fast on draft day as it is now. I had to listen to the fight in Spanish since I finally found a stream with not many people in it.
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:19 AM    (permalink
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So many people have caught on to watching the PPV's online that its almost impossible to find a stream that works since all of them have thousands upon thousands of viewers trying to get on at the same time. Its like expecting this site to be just as fast on draft day as it is now. I had to listen to the fight in Spanish since I finally found a stream with not many people in it.
Correct. The key is to find one of those stupid spanish feeds without alot of watching. These streams eventually end up shutting down for me though because of ****** residence connection and I end up getting banned from half the channels.
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:22 AM    (permalink
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Leites' jits respect comes from the competitions he won back in Brazil. I think it's more based on that than his wins. I think it's more of him not doing anything to damage that rep than anything. I'dlove to see him and Rousimar Palhares fight. Both guys are pretty strong on the ground.
I would love to see that match.
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Old 04-19-2009, 05:57 AM    (permalink
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I am saying, this fight shouldn't effect P4P ratings, Anderson Silva dominated Leites, he took absolutely no damage, and this was his 9th win in a row without even being close to being stopped. This to me was the same thing as a 1-0 baseball game, or how the San Antonio Spurs play in basketball, beat your team without the flair and flash of dunks, alley oops and no look passes. We are talking about Anderson Silva, the guy turns in one Unanimous Decision and people are calling for his heads. When you fight a world class BJJ guy all it takes is one slip up and you're done, Silva fought cautious, too cautious at the end but I suppose winning means more to him than putting himself in danger to please the fans. Look at GSP v Serra, GSP was reckless and got KO-ed by a guy he shouldn't of been KO-ed by and his career was set back because of it.

Should Fedor be moved down rankings since he was getting dominated in the stand up game until AA got caught on a dumb move? No, because he won the fight. Should GSP have been dropped for not finishing Jon Fitch? No because he won the fight.

Like I said, this wasn't the most exciting fight, and I was irritated by some of Silva's in ring antics but this fight doesn't make me think less of him as a fighter, and doesn't change his position in my rankings.
This. Anderson did hat he needed to do for himself, not the fans, that doesn't diminish him as a talented fighter, just as a UFC fanboys wet dream.
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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I still think Silva's jiu-jitsu is beyond underated, people acted like leites was going to take him down and have his way.
people admit he is a legit BB, but since Leites is so good on the ground he could submit anyone in the world.
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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I almost want to blame the poor performance on the match making. You pair a counter striker up with a BJJ guy what do you expect to happen? Both fighters stuck to what wins them fights and a dull performance is what came out of it.
Silva vs. Maia would be about 5 times worse.
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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I honestly think Anderson is bored at MW, no one presents a challenge to him. I know Wandy is posturing for an eventual fight with him but I think Wandy would actually initiate a stand up fight with Anderson, and Wandy would get KO-ed in the dominant fashion you all want to see. You're damn right Anderson can get subbed, it's happened more than once, Could that be the reason he was so cautious? Who knows, you can be a lot more careless with you striking when you are fighting a guy like Rich Franklin and you know you aren't going to be taken down.

The 182 pound weigh in puzzles me, it makes me wonder if he was sick, or perhaps sending a message that maybe 170 is an option, or perhaps a catch weight for a GSP fight, or maybe even a new weight class? I know there has been talk about a 195 weight class or even a 220 weight class. I think a fight against GSP or a fight against a top 10 LHW is what Anderson needs to stop toying with opponents and finish them.
Maybe, but if he's doing that against Leites, what the hell is the Maia fight going to look like?

182 didn't bother me much, I thought he just had a bad scale or something.
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Silva vs. Maia would be about 5 times worse.
Correctamundo. Charles Barkley thinks Maia's stand up is turrible turrible, but Maia's ground game is so incredible that Anderson wouldn't even dream of going to the ground. Maia would probably try to pull guard all night if he can't get the takedown, and Anderson wouldn't follow him to the ground. But then again at some point Leites should've just went for something instead of just launching himself to the ground. Maia is pretty wicked with his jits though, so it might be a little entertaining to see Anderson in a grappling fest.

What I really want to see is the UFC sign Jacare, and have Jacare and Maia fight in MMA for the first time. Both have victories over each other in grappling, and both are great ground fighters that lack stand up right now. Or Maia/Palhares. Or Maia and Leites. Or Jacare and Palhares. Thinking of it the middleweight divison has some really slick jits guys.
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Old 04-19-2009, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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yes I agree there are amazing grapplers at 185.
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Old 04-19-2009, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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I just watched UFC 97 and I can say I wish there was a crowd volume button. I hate the crowd. If I could just listen to the fight and Joe Rogan I would. Silva dominated that fight. He took no hits and every time he would start throwing some combination's Leites would go to the ground. I understand that is his game but IMO it was a horrible match-up. People wanted to see excitement but who really expected it to be a slugfest or why would anyone think Silva would go at him on the ground. Silva did his game and everytime he would try to throw anything exciting he would have to stop because Leites would just fall down.

I thought it was funny when someone said if it was GSP in the ring last night he would of beat Silva. How do you even say that? What makes you even think that? I mean first Silva's game plan would of been different and GSP would of been attacking Silva not just laying around trying to go to the ground. That was just a dumb thing to say IMO.

Anyone else think Liddels chin is made of glass?? He is funny. Every fight he gets a hit on someone and thinks he is about to finish them. Then gets dropped. Overall I enjoyed the fights(Including the Silva fight) IMO the Cane vs Cantwell was fight of the night. Just all kinds of combination's.
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Old 04-19-2009, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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well Liddell horrible style of lands low chin up isn't a smart idea w/ how long he has been fighting.
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Old 04-19-2009, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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well Liddell horrible style of lands low chin up isn't a smart idea w/ how long he has been fighting.
He's set in his ways having been around for so long, the sport is evolving around him and he isn't adapting.
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Old 04-19-2009, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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that is true, plus in sports its hard to break old habits. Like it was hard for me to switch my wrestling technique this year. Overall he is a very good fighter, I hate to say it but it looks like MMA has passed the likes of Wand and Chuck by.
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Old 04-19-2009, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Chuck used to have a pretty damn good chin. Watch that first fight with Rampage. You could hear how hard he got hit, and he never got put to sleep....well that's before his corner threw in the towel. lol But his power is gone too. He tagged Shogun with some shots that he would've Koed him with in his younger days. It maybe that Shogun has a good chin, but I've never seen Shogun's chin tested before. That's why I want him to fight a guy like Cane.

Oh and Shogun needs to stay far away from Jon Jones. Sure Jones is a rookie, but he'd eat Shogun's lunch worse than Forrest did. He's too big and quick for Shogun to deal with. Shogun's cardio has always been suspect too. If he wants a title shot he needs to stay away from the bigger guys.
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