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Old 11-17-2006, 11:42 PM    (permalink
Staubach12
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
Ben was also a rookie in his first 9 games unlike Rivers who is a 3rd year pro.

And Ben hasn't done horrible. He has had several bad games but he has had some great games this year aswell. He set career highs in TDs and yards this year. He has had great games against KC, ATL, NO and Den which is half the games he played this year.

You call Ben a game manager yet he has more attempts/game than Rivers this year.
THIS YEAR! He's not having a Pro-Bowl year, my friend. Rivers is.
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Old 11-18-2006, 03:32 AM    (permalink
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Before the draft, I had the three ranked as (1) Roethlisberger (2) Manning (3) Rivers. Right now it looks like the reverse is true.

But I still think Eli has the physical tools and late game moxy to be the best, he just needs to defeat his bouts of inconsistencies.

I think Roethlisberger is going to be a lot like Daunte. A lot of greatness with a lot of erraticism.

Not sure what to make of Rivers, yet. Looks damn good. But he will be exposed sooner or later. Even if that time comes in the playoffs.
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Old 11-18-2006, 05:34 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger
Before the draft, I had the three ranked as (1) Roethlisberger (2) Manning (3) Rivers. Right now it looks like the reverse is true.

But I still think Eli has the physical tools and late game moxy to be the best, he just needs to defeat his bouts of inconsistencies.

I think Roethlisberger is going to be a lot like Daunte. A lot of greatness with a lot of erraticism.

Not sure what to make of Rivers, yet. Looks damn good. But he will be exposed sooner or later. Even if that time comes in the playoffs.
If Marty goes one-and-done in the playoffs again, he can kiss his job goodbye.
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Old 11-18-2006, 05:51 AM    (permalink
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Ben:
1543 Yards, 10 Tds, 4 Ints, 70.6% Completion


Eli:
1314 Yards, 9 Tds, 11 Ints, 47.8% Completion

Philip:
2085 Yards, 13 Tds, 3 Ints, 67.8% Completion


Key Notes:

*Ben was Starting with Duce Staley at RB, Jerame Tuman at TE, Keydrick Vincent at RG and Oliver Ross at RT.
*Ben Threw over 370+ yards on both the eventual Superbowl teams beating NE with 2 TDs in the air and Philly an additional 2 TDs.
*Ben and Elis Rookie Campaign Schedule was more difficult Than Rivers.
*Ben played Miami, Cincy, Cleveland, Dallas, New England, Philly, Cleveland, Cincy and Dallas. Not to mention (Jax, Jets, Giants and Baltimore)
*Eli Started from the 10th game of the season on.
*Eli played Atlanta, Philly(SB Season), Washington, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincy, Dallas, Arizona and New Orleans in his first 9 games.
*Eli was playing with Ike Hiliard and Amani Toomer as his 1 & 2. Although he still did have Tiki and Jeremy.
*Phillip is starting 2 seasons after staying on the bench, having a solid 9 game streak, but he already has a better team than Both Eli and Ben did. And he's not played anyone proven and won..
*Phillip played Oakland, Tennessee, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Kansas City, St. Louis, Cleveland and Cincy. I'll hold my breath until he beats the likes Denver (Which he won't manage near 400+ Yards passing like Ben) KC, Seattle. The Chargers have easily one of the biggest joke schedules around.
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Old 11-18-2006, 06:26 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller

Key Notes:

*Ben was Starting with Duce Staley at RB, Jerame Tuman at TE, Keydrick Vincent at RG and Oliver Ross at RT.
Wasn't Staley averaging over 100 yards a game?
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Old 11-18-2006, 06:55 AM    (permalink
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller

Key Notes:

*Ben was Starting with Duce Staley at RB, Jerame Tuman at TE, Keydrick Vincent at RG and Oliver Ross at RT.
Wasn't Staley averaging over 100 yards a game?
I believe so and Oliver Ross was a good player before he came to Arizona.
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Old 11-18-2006, 07:10 AM    (permalink
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I can't understand how everyone is talking **** about ben because he's having a bad year. The guy had two very very good years, great passer ratings, a ring, and got to the afc championship twice, and now that his team is struggling, he's suddenly crap? May I remind you that the guy had an apendectomy the week before the season started, not to mention busting his head against a car at 40 miles an hour!

Sure, you can say that the guy is a fluke, but consider this, he had 0 td's and 7 int's in the three weeks after his apendectomy, when he was completely busted up, and since he's recovered, he's put up 10 Td to 7 int. Not great, but certainly respectable for a QB who's been playing from behind, and been in a pretty bad position all season long.

Now Ben may not be as good as peyton manning, but he's certainly a great qb, and so far, has proven much more than the other two. Not to mention he actually has a ring. Who would you take? Terry Bradshaw or Marino?
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Old 11-18-2006, 07:45 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller

Key Notes:

*Ben was Starting with Duce Staley at RB, Jerame Tuman at TE, Keydrick Vincent at RG and Oliver Ross at RT.
Wasn't Staley averaging over 100 yards a game?
I believe so and Oliver Ross was a good player before he came to Arizona.
Because Zona made a good player crappy? Bad logic.

Duce had 4 100 yard rushing games. he averaged 75.8 yards a game. Cleveland, Cincinnatti, NE and Miami were the 4 games.

My point was, everyone made it seem that Bens first 9 games he had a possible future Pro-Bowl TE, Possible Pro-Bowl RB, and the best line of the 3.. he in fact had just the opposite. If Oliver Ross was that good, I'm sure we would have kept him. Same with Keydrick Vincent.
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Old 11-18-2006, 09:43 AM    (permalink
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller

Key Notes:

*Ben was Starting with Duce Staley at RB, Jerame Tuman at TE, Keydrick Vincent at RG and Oliver Ross at RT.
Wasn't Staley averaging over 100 yards a game?
I believe so and Oliver Ross was a good player before he came to Arizona.
Oliver Ross was horrible. Why do you think we got rid of him? I can't believe he is even in the NFl. Staley was averaging close to 80 yards a game before his injury.
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Old 11-18-2006, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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This thread is such a week to week thread. What will happen if Eli and Ben have huge games, and Rivers has a toilet game? Will that be justification of Ben and Eli being better than Rivers? Clearly not. But the same goes for the other way around too. From now until the end of the season, I reserve judgement on this matter until the season is over. I will make points here and there, I'll play devil's advocate sometimes, but I won't make a clearcut list out of these 3.
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Old 11-18-2006, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Exactlly. Everyone is saying Rivers is #1 just because he is playing well now.

After they all have several seasons of play they will be easier to judge.
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Old 11-18-2006, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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Rivers has went 9 games without a bad one yet. He's certainly going to have one before to long but their is a huge difference between a bad game once or twice and a season and a bad game every four games.
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tom
I can't understand how everyone is talking *********** about ben because he's having a bad year. The guy had two very very good years, great passer ratings, a ring, and got to the afc championship twice, and now that his team is struggling, he's suddenly crap? May I remind you that the guy had an apendectomy the week before the season started, not to mention busting his head against a car at 40 miles an hour!

Sure, you can say that the guy is a fluke, but consider this, he had 0 td's and 7 int's in the three weeks after his apendectomy, when he was completely busted up, and since he's recovered, he's put up 10 Td to 7 int. Not great, but certainly respectable for a QB who's been playing from behind, and been in a pretty bad position all season long.

Now Ben may not be as good as peyton manning, but he's certainly a great qb, and so far, has proven much more than the other two. Not to mention he actually has a ring. Who would you take? Terry Bradshaw or Marino?
Well bens choice to ride a motorcycle with or w/out a helmet certainly is a choice he made, and he can be held accountable for. Injuries or illnesses happen in this sport and they do take their toll. Thats no excuse. Ben walked into a good team that could win with a smart qb. Great running game, dominant defense. This year the Steelers needed more, and every game the opponents are hyped to play them. He has come up short. I think a lot of the ben bashing is simply the knee jerk reaction to how some fans jumped on his bandwagon last year, and did the eli/losman/rivers bashing.
Rivers sat for 2 years and learned and is playing on a quality playoff team. He has done well as stated with a easy schedule, again greta running game dominant defense. He has yet to really have been tested by a quality team.
Eli is on a team that is rebuilding and yet still a contender, the team, also has a great running game but a weaker defense . He has the additional pressure of playing in ny media, and a difficult schedule. He has been up and down, but hes shown the talent to win or put the team in the position to win in the clutch.
My guess is this argument will go back and forth for years, ala 1983 class. Lets give it 10 years.
By the way Bradshaw and Marino were picked about 14 years apart. If they were available at the same time I'd pick Marino. Bradshaw played for a dominant team, the defense was the soul of the team. The running game was outstanding, as was the O-line. Bradshaw is a hof'er, by all means.
Marino was among the most talented qbs to play in the last 30 years. His lack of a s/b ring isnt because he couldnt play, or he choked, rather because of his team weaknesses. If you remember the 80s and early 90s the teams that won had a great running game, and a good defense. Even the 49ers had that when they won. Miami never had either.
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Old 11-19-2006, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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How bout Big Ben.
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Old 11-19-2006, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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How bout Big Ben.
i like the daunte comparrison
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Old 11-19-2006, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
How bout Big Ben.


Did you watch the game? or just reading the stat sheet?

Because all 3 of his INT's, he nailed the WR on the hands and they tipped htem right to the Browns.

But, how about the fact he's single handedly leading his team from behind... With his legs, and breaking sure sacks and throwing it away.. Rivers wouldn't have made that play after teddy washington jacked him and he stayed on his feet to throw it away
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Old 11-19-2006, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
How bout Big Ben.
i like the daunte comparrison
When Daunte wins 15 games straight, wins a superbowl, or comes back from a critical injury to play well?

I'll buy it then.
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jkpigskin
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
How bout Big Ben.
i like the daunte comparrison
When Daunte wins 15 games straight, wins a superbowl, or comes back from a critical injury to play well?

I'll buy it then.
When did big Ben do that?

And I heard one was hit fault. I'm still glad I benched him this week.
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by jkpigskin
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
How bout Big Ben.
i like the daunte comparrison
When Daunte wins 15 games straight, wins a superbowl, or comes back from a critical injury to play well?

I'll buy it then.
When did big Ben do that?

And I heard one was hit fault. I'm still glad I benched him this week.
A motorcycle accident? That was life threatening, he's lucky to be alive, let alone be playing football.

He did throw over 30 times and led his team to victory. One was his fault, although it was catchable it was a tad high.

The other two.. Hines caught it and it popped out right to mcginnest and the other Ced slid to catch it and it bounced off of him and right into the CB's hands.
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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I'm talking about the playing well part, and that injury didn't really effect him playing as much as say and torn rotator cuff or torn ACL.
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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After a horendous first half Ben lead the team to a comeback win. He played a very good 2nd half where he drove the ball down the field 3 times and got two Tds. Most importantly, 0 INTs.

A game that looked like it was going to go down as one of his worsts eneded up having him play great in the 2nd half and win the game. And he definately wasn't just managing the game in the 2nd half.
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal
After a horendous first half Ben lead the team to a comeback win. He played a very good 2nd half where he drove the ball down the field 3 times and got two Tds. Most importantly, 0 INTs.

A game that looked like it was going to go down as one of his worsts eneded up having him play great in the 2nd half and win the game. And he definately wasn't just managing the game in the 2nd half.
He led that team back. He lost ward on the last drive, but Holmes and Washington stepped up.. He amazed me in his mobility and his ability to avoid the sack
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:26 PM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Mr. Stiller is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
I'm talking about the playing well part, and that injury didn't really effect him playing as much as say and torn rotator cuff or torn ACL.
? Playing after a near death fatal accident? yea it may not be a rotator cuff, I don't care who you are, it's pretty hard to come back from that.
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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How bout Big Ben.
1 INt was holmes fault, hit him in the hands and batted it in the air. Pick Six. He still threw 250+ and two tds. He played very well in the second half, making up for his dismal first
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Why couldn't Helen Keller drive?

She was a woman.
^^^^^^
OMFG LMAO
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Old 11-19-2006, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Great finish by Big Ben and he is showing he can be clutch in big spots. He is starting to earn more of my respect, just has to take care of the ball more.
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These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
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