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Old 05-03-2007, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Why are so many Jets fans such massive homers? Is it just a New York thing?
Giants fans were the same last year, the team makes the playoffs and fans go batshit insane about their team. Somehow the fact that the team was signing mediocre at best free agent after another - in the secondary particularly - was overlooked. At least last year has made Giants fans more reasonable this year, especially as they realize the team's upswing starts in 2008 after they dump Coughlin. Getting rid of one of the worst defensive coordinators of the last 5 years, Tim Lewis, was a step in the right direction already.

In the Jets case, while they did do a handful of very good things, it's not enough. They still don't have a TE who can help Pistol Pennington or actual/eventual starter Kellen Clemens, and they still don't have enough talent in the front seven to make their 3-4 defense playoff-caliber. They might sneak into the playoffs again, although I doubt it, but they'll get bounced handedly like last year if they do.
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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It's an arrogance thing. NYC is the best city in the world, and we're from the, for all intents and purposes, capitol of the world. So we're arrogant.

At least I'm honest.
I'm really not a fan of New York City. East coast cities are overrated to me, the only one I really enjoy is Philadelphia. D.C is entertaining but not at all safe, and Boston has tons of cool historical stuff, but is way too crowded, the traffic is terrible, and most people are assholes. Actually most American cities are overrated in general. Not to mention that the Jets currently play in New Jersey, the armpit of America.

But that's cool...being a homer is a relative thing anyway.
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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The 49ers were 7-9 last year, and beat Denver and Seattle on the road to close out the season. They're young players; Alex Smith, Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, are only going to get better. They drastically improved their receivers, to where their receptions leader (Arnaz Battler, yikes) last year may be the #3/4. They added Patrick Willis and Banta-Cain at LB. Nate Clements is probably a top-5 cover corner, to tandem with Walt Harris.
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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I know that you're aware of this, but simply adding or subtracting talent does not make a good "team". Most teams (Saints of last year excluded) need to develop chemistry, fit needs, schemes and appropriate roles, and you can never discount how a guy is going to react when he changes an enviroment or gets a big fat signing bonus.

It's funny now that the Redskins have become everyone's kicking dog people go apeshit when they overspend on players, but when another team does it they are just "acquiring talent". Usually the team that "wins" the offseason ends up .500 or below. Just look at the Panthers of last year.

This is exactly why I do not like the Pats' offseason. I feel they added tons of talent (I even like their pick of Meriweather) but they are trading chemistry and attitude for talent, which I do not like. The Jets did not add the same number of players, but all 3 big additions (draft and trade) are character, quality, hard working guys with good attitudes. I'll take that over a couple more players that have talent.

And I'm not being a homer when I say this, I'd say it if it was any other team (Cowboys, Chargers, etc). This is the first year I looked at the Pats' offseason and was not impressed. Well, last year I wasn't particularly impressed, but I didn't have any issues with it, but this year is the first year I truely didn't envy the Pats'.

Well, except their tastey 1st round pick next year which will probably be top 15.
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Tis the off-season. We have four months of nonstop inane banter, flame wars, and conjecture about the upcoming season.
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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I'm really not a fan of New York City. East coast cities are overrated to me, the only one I really enjoy is Philadelphia. D.C is entertaining but not at all safe, and Boston has tons of cool historical stuff, but is way too crowded, the traffic is terrible, and most people are assholes. Actually most American cities are overrated in general. Not to mention that the Jets currently play in New Jersey, the armpit of America.

But that's cool...being a homer is a relative thing anyway.

The Jets' play in NJ because NYC is too about the business to use the land for sports. Which is unfortunate. But the Patriots don't play in Boston, yet Bostonians (that's how you say it right?) feel free to call them a Boston team. And I'm pretty sure the Cowboys don't play in Dallas.

But that's all beside the point. The best place to live is New Hampshire. The best place to work and be around is NYC. It's got everything. Culture, art, broadway, history, wall street... anything you want. Boston might be a more "historic" city (I've been there and enjoyed it), but so is Charleston, South Carolina. That doesn't make it a better place to be, just a fun place to visit.
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Tis the off-season. We have four months of nonstop inane banter, flame wars, and conjecture about the upcoming season.
Oh I know, I just wanted to use that picture. Haha...

I just don't like it when people say "so and so is only going to get better" just because they are young. Very often young players don't develop, and in the case of Lawson and Davis, neither of them showed enough of a curve last year to know one way or another except for pure talent and where they were drafted. At least Alex Smith has shown sustained development, but I think some people are acting like he was John Elway last year because he threw more touchdowns than interceptions. Rex Grossman did the same thing, where his cookie and adulation?
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Probably because perception was Grossman (or Eli Manning for that matter) was holding his team back. Whereas the media is more willing to praise Smith, because they think, and probably so, that his supporting cast isn't very good.
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Great. One example. Try making a mathmatical formulation out of that.

It's also worth noting that nobody thought much of the moves the Saints made other than Brees and Bush.
"Other than Brees and Bush." lol

Dude you are kinda on another planet here with your 49er-hating. I haven't seen you make a single logical point but your posts are all over threads on this site trying to mock the 49ers.

Your "formula" for winning was adding small contract players. Which is exactly what the 49ers did that last year. They signed Walt Harris and Larry Allen. Both of whom went to the Pro Bowl. They were so far under the salary cap this year they spent their money signing their nucleus of young talent to long term deals including Gore, Spencer, Snyder etc. etc.

Their only big free agent signing was Clements. Whose deal is structured so that he is only making league minimum this year and the last two years are cap friendly years to cut him or restructure. If you look at the actual contract it works out to about 8 million a year.

Unlike the Redskins they signed a number of young players. All of their FA pick ups are under 27 and moving towards their NFL prime. All come from winning programs and are high character people. The've had two 1st round picks the past two years, and the #1 pick overall in 2005. So they have a very stong young nucleus.

Whether or not they win next year is up in the air, but you cannot knock the front office. They put this time in a very nice position to compete playing in the weaker conference in its weakest division.
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Oh I know, I just wanted to use that picture. Haha...

I just don't like it when people say "so and so is only going to get better" just because they are young. Very often young players don't develop, and in the case of Lawson and Davis, neither of them showed enough of a curve last year to know one way or another except for pure talent and where they were drafted. At least Alex Smith has shown sustained development, but I think some people are acting like he was John Elway last year because he threw more touchdowns than interceptions. Rex Grossman did the same thing, where his cookie and adulation?
The media basically haven't even coverred the 49ers in the past few years.
Smith was considered a bust after his first year and not coverred much. They only started picking up coverage once he led the team to that comeback against Seattle on the NFL Network. Even then few have given him credit as being the next John Elway. Virtually every commentator still has Young/Leinart/Cutler well ahead of him. I'd rather he fly under the radar for a while. Losing Turner may hurt, but they are keeping his system and those close to the team seem to feel Dilfer had a lot more to do with Smith's development than Turner did. There really are no excuses for Smith this year, which I'm sure is scary. He finally has starting calibre NFL receivers and Kwame is heading to the bench (and Harris may be the only player in NFL history to have his holding calls negate 70+ yard TD passes twice in the same season.)

The Bears are all over the place and they seem to have everything in place except for QB where Grossman was historically up and down and had one of the more abysmal seasons in recent memory. He's also surrounded by an A+ supporting cast whereas Smith had expansion level teammates for his first two years. And Chicago fans in general can be loud and obnoxious and have called for Rex's head on more than one occasion so the national media just picks up on it.

Personally, I'm pulling for Rex to do well and shove it down everyone's throat. It's funny watching old Superbowls and seeing how horrible Elway was in them (especially against the 49ers in '89) He seemed to bounce back and be OK in the end. Neil O'Donnell on the other hand - not so much.
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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I'm not "hating" on the Niners at all. I'm completely objective in this debate, as they aren't even a rival or are playing the Bears next year, perhaps you should consider that as well. I'm also not alone in my opinion. This could be any team, I don't buy into hype, and that's what the Niners are right now.

In terms of logic, you're wrong on a few fronts. The deal for Lewis was massive for his current value, and Banta-Cain was overpaid as well.

Your assertion that the Redskins are more prone to sign older players is also incorrect. Lloyd, Randel-El, Carter, and Archuleta were all under 30 last year. That is why the Redskins don't draft, because they sign players with only 3-5 years experience in the league. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's the rationale.

I'm also not knocking the Niners front office, or even their fans, I'm knocking the perception that they have achieved anything at this point. Bringing in players is always a risk, and the success rate of being active in free agency is low. And that is a fact, that is backed up by statistics, so while you can talk about "logic", almost everything I've said so far has a pretty strong historical precedence to it, you just don't like it because you're a Niners fan.

And if you consider Desmond Clark and Muhsin Muhammad an A+ staff, you are an awful generous fellow.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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And thats exactly why I feel that the Niners are this year's Redskins.

They make a big splash in FA and all of a sudden theyre good? Theyre being massively overrated. Michael Lewis doesn't solve anything. They didn't address the dline. They lost their OC. Clements is overrated. They overspent on one of the worst FA years in recent memory.

I still haven't done a full offseason evaluation of all the teams, but at first glance, I think SF is my early favorite for getting the overrated tag.
Explain to me How Clements is overrated?

A two time Pro Bowler who's great in coverage and great in Run Support.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Explain to me How Clements is overrated?

A two time Pro Bowler who's great in coverage and great in Run Support.
He's had a not so great past 2 years. He's top 10, but not top 5.

More importantly, I know Nolan loves running Cover 3, and Clements is more of a man coverage defender. He struggled in zone coverages in Buffalo. Unless Nolan uses him in more man coverage, he won't live up to expectations.

Add the fact that Im not sure if the pass rush is where it needs to be. Buffalo's pass rush was infinitely better than SF's and he still had some trouble.

So that could be a problem. Mix zone with less pass rush, and things could get ugly for Clements.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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I'm not "hating" on the Niners at all. I'm completely objective in this debate, as they aren't even a rival or are playing the Bears next year, perhaps you should consider that as well. I'm also not alone in my opinion. This could be any team, I don't buy into hype, and that's what the Niners are right now.
Objectivity wasn't an issue. I just think you aren't well aware of the situation and are looking to fill space and sound important. Every thread I open I see you talking about how the 49ers are over-hyped. You seem to be very interested in a team that you supposedly don't care about. You also expressed problems with Alex Smith getting more press than Rex Grossman.

I just don't understand where you are coming from. The team hasn't exactly been getting tons of praise. Major media coverage has been on the Patriots and all the guys they have signed. For the most part SF has been under the radar in their moves.

Your connection to the Redskins doesn't hold water because the team was built through the draft. SF doesn't trade away draft picks for players like the Redskins. I can't remember the last time they gave up draft pick fors players.

Quote:
In terms of logic, you're wrong on a few fronts. The deal for Lewis was massive for his current value, and Banta-Cain was overpaid as well.
You are aware there's a new salary cap correct? And that the 49ers were so far under the cap the needed to spend money to even hit the salary floor established under the new CBA? Should they have just sat on that money and did nothing? Because some of the other teams 30+ million in cap space sat on their hands and weren't aggressive and have little to show for it.

"Overpaid" is a relative term that is better assessed down the line once we actually see what these guys can do. SF had no pass rush and Thomas went to NE so there weren't exactly a lot of options. Would it have been better to stay with Roderick Green
based on your generalized fear of spending a lot of money on free agents? How exactly would that press conference go?

I live in Philly. I see a majority of the Eagles games. Michael Lewis got a raw deal in Philly and was benched as a scapegoat. Franklin Field used to be full of Lewis jerseys and everyone loved him as a hard hitter and stand up guy.

And in case the media outside of Philly hasn't picked up on it, the natives are getting restless and Andy Reid's super micro-managing has alienated a lot of his players and the team is on the verge of imploding. I think Lewis will be fine in SF and he's making 600 k this year in base salary. Its not like they broke the bank for him.

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Your assertion that the Redskins are more prone to sign older players is also incorrect. Lloyd, Randel-El, Carter, and Archuleta were all under 30 last year. That is why the Redskins don't draft, because they sign players with only 3-5 years experience in the league. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's the rationale.
The Redskins have notoriously signed older veteran players going back to the "over the hill" gang.

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I'm also not knocking the Niners front office, or even their fans, I'm knocking the perception that they have achieved anything at this point. Bringing in players is always a risk, and the success rate of being active in free agency is low.
The 1994 SF 49ers would disagree. They seemed to do pretty well bringing in a number of expensive free agents - Ken Norton, Deion Sanders, Richard Dent etc. etc.

Nevertheless, I really think you are mis-characterizing SF's offseason. The team from day 1 in SF has been built through the draft and they have added 4 - 5 players in FA. The difference this year is that they added one big ticket player.

Quote:
And that is a fact, that is backed up by statistics, so while you can talk about "logic", almost everything I've said so far has a pretty strong historical precedence to it, you just don't like it because you're a Niners fan.
I'm pretty sure you meant precedents. I don't like it because you talk down to people a lot and act like you are something special. It's the whole "ego" issue. Y

And yes I'm a 49ers fan, so I can pick apart your arguments. But 49er fans fight fiercely over this stuff as well.

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And if you consider Desmond Clark and Muhsin Muhammad an A+ staff, you are an awful generous fellow.
Compared to what SF has had, it certainly is.

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Old 05-03-2007, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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8 wins isn't ****. Big deal. So if they win one or two more games that means they've had the best offseason? They would have to at least win 10-11 games and the division for this to be considered a real success. Otherwise they are just treading water. Even based on the law of averages they'll be .500 or so next year.

So with that being said, you can put your money where your mouth is and bet me that the Niners will win the division. If not, then the rest of your points are irrelevant and you're wasting my time.
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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8 wins isn't ****. Big deal. So if they win one or two more games that means they've had the best offseason? They would have to at least win 10-11 games and the division for this to be considered a real success. Otherwise they are just treading water. Even based on the law of averages they'll be .500 or so next year.

So with that being said, you can put your money where your mouth is and bet me that the Niners will win the division. If not, then the rest of your points are irrelevant and you're wasting my time.
You are aware that 8 wins could have easily won the division last year?

Honestly, I think you could use some time away from the keyboard. Upon looking up your posts you just seem like the angry guy who spouts off about everything. Too much anger.

I guess I'll just move on and let you be. I guess there isn't much to do in the off-season around here so people pick fights.

We'll see what happens once they actually start playing football.
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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You are aware that 8 wins could have easily won the division last year?

Honestly, I think you could use some time away from the keyboard. Upon looking up your posts you just seem like the angry guy who spouts off about everything. Too much anger.

I guess I'll just move on and let you be. I guess there isn't much to do in the off-season around here so people pick fights.

We'll see what happens once they actually start playing football.
So after telling me I need to put my money where my mouth is, you in the end don't have enough faith in your team to think that with the "best offseason in the NFL" they can't win a crummy division like the NFC West? Ooooooh...bold prediction...eight wins.

Ok, good one, bye bye.

And I didn't pick a fight with anyone. You're the one that came after me for what I thought about your team. Even though in the end you seemingly agree with me since you think they'll have about the same record as they had last year.
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
So after telling me I need to put my money where my mouth is, you in the end don't have enough faith in your team to think that with the "best offseason in the NFL" they can't win a crummy division like the NFC West? Ooooooh...bold prediction...eight wins.

Ok, good one, bye bye.

And I didn't pick a fight with anyone. You're the one that came after me for what I thought about your team. Even though in the end you seemingly agree with me since you think they'll have about the same record as they had last year.
No, I just had second thoughts about having an active wager with what appears to be a relatively unstable individual across the internet.

But feel free to keep trying to bait me back into it.
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Old 05-03-2007, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Mix zone with less pass rush, and things could get ugly for Clements.
If there is one thing I'm confident in...its Mike Nolan's ability to best utilize his defensive players.

He took a defense last year that had nearly nothing talent-wise and was ready to set a points allowed record and turned them around into a decent unit in the second half of the year. He knows his defense, I'm certainly interested and excited to see what he can do with some talent and finally getting his 3-4 running.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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You are aware that 8 wins could have easily won the division last year?

Honestly, I think you could use some time away from the keyboard. Upon looking up your posts you just seem like the angry guy who spouts off about everything. Too much anger.

I guess I'll just move on and let you be. I guess there isn't much to do in the off-season around here so people pick fights.

We'll see what happens once they actually start playing football.
He's mad because you owned him in the argument.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:30 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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He's mad because you owned him in the argument.
I'm not mad at all. I listed my reasons why I think this is all hype and flawed arguments.

He had an inane rant about me being mean and arrogant and then challenged me to the lamest bet ever.

I made a real bet, he chickened out and justified it by saying I was "unstable" and angry, as if I'm going to beat his ass with my laptop.

But again, you are all Niners fans, I understand your desire to stick up for your team and desire to think the best thoughts possible, it's not a big deal to me at all, just don't say I'm picking fights and being angry when you're the one that takes an argument up with me and then tells me to "put my money where my mouth is" and then **** out. That's lame, really lame.

But yeah, I was owned. Whatever.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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I'm really not a fan of New York City. East coast cities are overrated to me, the only one I really enjoy is Philadelphia. D.C is entertaining but not at all safe, and Boston has tons of cool historical stuff, but is way too crowded, the traffic is terrible, and most people are assholes. Actually most American cities are overrated in general. Not to mention that the Jets currently play in New Jersey, the armpit of America.

But that's cool...being a homer is a relative thing anyway.
Chicago is the greatest city in the world 51!! :D

Anywho...I like what SF has done, I really do but I truly don't believe they're ready to make any kind of jump yet. Pretty much all of their skill positions have inexperienced players. Sure they have a bunch of potential, but that word is thrown around way too much in the NFL. The only sure thing on that team right now offensively is Frank Gore who is one of the most underrated players in the NFL right now. Alex Smith will need to raise his game even more, and that is without a real #1 target. Vernon Davis is a question mark at TE, who knows what he's going to do. The WR's haven't really proven much to me. Their OL is ok but nothing special. And switching to the 3-4 defense in the offseason may take some time to adjust to, although I hear they're still going to implement the 4-3 in there as well.

Things in SF are sunny, but I just don't see them as a threat for another year or so personally.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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I'm not mad at all. I listed my reasons why I think this is all hype and flawed arguments.

He had an inane rant about me being mean and arrogant and then challenged me to the lamest bet ever.

I made a real bet, he chickened out and justified it by saying I was "unstable" and angry, as if I'm going to beat his ass with my laptop.

But again, you are all Niners fans, I understand your desire to stick up for your team and desire to think the best thoughts possible, it's not a big deal to me at all, just don't say I'm picking fights and being angry when you're the one that takes an argument up with me and then tells me to "put my money where my mouth is" and then **** out. That's lame, really lame.

But yeah, I was owned. Whatever.
I am a grown ass man and I was getting into a fight with some guy on the internet over something rather trivial. I thought better of it and backed away. Plus my profession doesn't look kindly on gambling.

But I'll be more than happy to show up here game after game and update you on how the team is doing.
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:55 AM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
your "profession" frowns on making simple internet wagers that don't, typically, involve money? you could've made up a better excuse than that.
Sig bets are a big deal in the "real" world. You wouldn't know about that because you aren't a grown ass man.
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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If you can't prevent the government from monitoring your internet actions you shouldn't get on the internet.
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