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Old 05-06-2007, 10:15 AM    (permalink
NIN1984
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The thing that drives me nuts about Anti-Russell people is that they like to use his strong arm as an negative and completely ignore the fact he is an all around good QB, he can do so much more than just throw the deep ball. When I see post like this I can’t help but wonder how many LSU games they actually watched.
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Old 05-06-2007, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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That's the thing. Most people didn't see much of Jamarcus Russell. Whereas they saw Quinn all the time. So there is a tendency to side with the 'known,' as opposed to the unknown.
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Old 05-06-2007, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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The Saints were right to pass on Poz, but Meachem? Whatever. I think the right player was Alan Branch.

Actually, I think it won't be long til quite a few teams are saying "Why did we pass on Branch again?" Too many teams with bad run defenses out there.
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Old 05-06-2007, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I agree. Either way, I think they should have went defense in round 1.
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Old 05-06-2007, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I agree. Either way, I think they should have went defense in round 1.
Yes, we definitely should have. I think that's one drawback to having such an offensive-minded coach is that he constantly looks to upgrade the offense and makes just enough moves on defense to maintain above-average performance.

Bringing in Brian Simmons and Kevin Kaesviharn were two good moves but they are also up there in years as is most of our defense. We need to start thinking of the future, especially when top-flight defensive prospects are on the board. While we were able to land Walter Thomas (DT) as an UDFA, passing on players like Alan Branch, Paul Posluszny, Marcus McCauley, and others will definitely hurt us in the long run unless next year we draft one of the top LB or DT prospects.
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Old 05-06-2007, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Turns out that Quinn was graded closer to the second tier qbs than he was to Russell...
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Old 05-07-2007, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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Actually, I think it won't be long til quite a few teams are saying "Why did we pass on Branch again?" Too many teams with bad run defenses out there.
Who needs a Branch when you can get yourself a Tank :D
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Old 05-07-2007, 03:12 AM    (permalink
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Once again, Alan Branch is not a high character player and has injuy concerns, hence the reason why he fell so far. I don't want another Johnathan Sullivan.

The 1st round of the Draft is for the best player available, you shouldn't reach for a need with much better talent on the board. Later in the Draft, it's a little different as players are graded a lot closer but you still want to stick to the PBA rule.

Robert Meachem wasn't my first choice either, but he was the best player on the board at the 27th spot. Meachem is a mid round talent that slipped to the late first. Harrell went much earlier than he should have, picking Poz and Houston at 27 would have been a reach. Alan Branch was never a consideration, I doubt he was even on the Saints board at all.

As far as Marcus McCauley goes, Saints picked CB, Usama Young with the 66th pick in the 3rd round, McCauley went pick 72 to the Vikings. Obviously, Saints Co. liked Young enough to select him over MC.
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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Well, it has been too long since I've done one of these. So without further ado, onto the pondering.

Prediction: Levi Brown will be the best OT from this draft.

I trust Russ Grimm. Many people screamed "REACH" when this pick was made. I actually expected, and approve of it. First of all, it isn't a reach because Atlanta would've taken him three picks later. A lot of sources, such as Rick Gosselin, had him as a top-10 overall player anyway. Also, supposedly the majority of O-Line coaches prefer Brown over Thomas. They see a player who has great strength, and explosion. Of course this judgment is predicated on the ego of all O-Line coaches. They think they can turn this guy into a stud Left Tackle. In this case; I think Russ Grimm can actually do it.

The South Shall Rise Again

The NFC South, in general, had a fantastic draft. Carolina and Atlanta are both acclaimed in general, by the analysts for their respective draft classes.

Carolina - This team deserves a lot of credit for a phenomenal day-1, grabbing four talented players with great value. Jon Beason is a player I really liked, he is a nice addition, especially because Dan Morgan may be forced out of the league due to his injuries. I am not a fan of Dwayne Jarrett, but if he is going to succeed, it will be with Keyshawn Johnson being his mentor. Ryan Kalil will be a pro-bowl caliber ZBS center. Charles Johnson was a good value.

Atlanta - They also had a great draft. All of their first three picks should immediately jump into the starting lineup. Justin Blalock has the ability to be a impact player right away. He has everything you could want from a Guard; strength, intelligence, durability, versatility. Chris Houston allows Jimmy Williams to move to his natural position, improving the secondary in two ways. He, and DeAngelo Hall, are ideal for Mike Zimmer's preference for corners. They added depth, youth, all over the roster. Something that was desperately needed.

Tampa Bay - They didn't make any 'flashy' picks. Both them, and Atlanta, could've bit the bullet and trade up for Calvin Johnson. Both teams made the correct decision and utilized all their extra picks. Tampa Bay made a lot of underrated, scheme driven, decisions. They completely revamped the aging defensive unit. Adams, while slender in most schemes, is ideal as a weak side DE in a Tampa 2. Sabby Piscitelli reminds many people of other successful Strong Safeties in the scheme. Tanard Jackson is a typical Cover 2 corner that falls in the draft.

New Orleans - I think this team should be concerned. Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and Carolina were already talented. They just faced several issues such as injuries, and overall inconsistency, that opened the door for the Saints run in the division. Their draft focused too much on the offense. Everyone already knew their offense was going to be great. They did nothing to adequately improve their defense. It is very possible that they have to win shoot-outs all year. They can get away with it, like other teams like Indianapolis, Cincinnati, but it will be hard.


Any way you cut it, this division will be ultra competitive. I do not think it would be appropriate to anoint any clear cut favorite.

The First and Only Take on the Brady Quinn/Ted Ginn Jr. Situation

They had been whispers of it for a while now, yet everyone acted surprised when Brady Quinn fell like a rock on Saturday. Minnesota committed to Tavaris Jackson last year. Miami not being interested was unexpected. However; a lot of NFL people just did not like Brady Quinn's game. As for Miami's decision to by pass Quinn. I have no problem with it. I think John Beck very well may be a very good starting QB. The problem is who they took instead. I will get to that later.

Some Guy Named Randy Moss Got Traded

I think the Patriots made out like bandits, again. They've done it several times before. They take someone else's trouble, and turns the disgruntled player into a great addition for the team. Randy Moss, in his new situation with a top flight QB and HC to keep him in line, will return to his old form. Back when he was the most dangerous offensive weapon in football. All of the sudden, Tom Brady finally has the weapons he has never had before, and that is a scary notion.

Devil's Advocate

To some people, Matt Millen is literally the Devil incarnate. In this case; I feel Matt Millen, influenced by Mike Martz, made the correct decision to draft Calvin Johnson. I don't care what the media says. I am a believer in the "B.P.A" philosophy. When you have the best player on the board, you don't pass on him, or trade away his rights for loose change. The Lions couldn't get either of the teams to trade up equal to the value chart. The situation echoes the Saints of last year. They already had Deuce McAllister, so logic would dictate they would do anything to trade down to New York and add a player of a bigger need. The Lions added a impact player, and filled their other needs later on. That is how you should do it. Whether or not it leads to success, that's to be determined. Still, I respect them for having the "cahones" to stick to their guns, take the player they graded highest, and ignore the critics.

Yes! This Forum Needs More NFC East Coverage

The actions of two teams impel me to rant:

Washington's philosophy "grinds my gears" like none other. There is a reason they have not been a good football team under Dan Snyder. You build teams via the draft. Teams like Indianapolis, Chicago, etcetera, are all built by crafty general managers, selecting good players in the draft. The Redskins' defense needed a lot. Yet, because they auctioned off all of their picks, they were able to add Laron Landry, and that's it. I love Landry as a prospect, and he will help. But they could have used a lot more help on the D-Line.

Philadelphia had me scratching my head. They'd better hope Kevin Kolb turns out as well as the last small school QB, who had a last name that's pronunciation was nothing like it's spelling. Otherwise, I don't get it. McNabb has had injury issues, granted. Kolb will only help the team three, or so, years down the line. The only pick I liked was the Tony Hunt pick. Finally they made a consciouses decision to add a big power back, to contrast all the small backs they have.

Rookie of the Year Picks

These are ultimately, well, perfunctory. Well, I pretty much have to put my two cents in.

Offense: Marshawn Lynch will win the O.R.O.T.Y. He is in a perfect situation. Steve Farchild's offense borrows heavily from Mike Martz. Lynch will be used as a dual-threat back, with little competition for touches. You have a combination of talent, scheme fit, and he guarantee he will immediately contribute.

Defense: Anthony Spencer will win the D.R.O.T.Y. Wade Phillips' scheme is predicated on the pass rush provided by it's OLB/DE hybrids. He blitzes them relentlessly. Both Spencer, and Ware, will have plenty of opportunities to rush the passer. Having both will prevent teams from singling in on either of them. Defensive stats will be plentiful. He has a big market to gain notoriety.

It's the thought that counts...

Here are a few teams I thought could have done a better job with individual picks in the '07 draft:

Tennessee Titans take Chris Henry, RB, Arizona - This is an example of the fact that many people criticize. Some teams put way too much into workout numbers. Here is a player who looks the part, runs a 4.4 at 230-lbs. Unfortunately he only managed 3.3 YPC in a conference (Pac-10) that isn't exactly known for defensive stalwarts. I think they should have jumped on Steve Smith, to help out Vince Young, and give Norm Chow one of his guys. LenDale is iffy, no doubt. They just should have gone a different direction at the position, if anything.

Miami Dolphins select Ted Ginn Jr., WR, Ohio State - Ted Ginn Jr. is a player I simply am not thrilled with. They took a developmental receiver, who is a returner, with a top-10 pick. That is a bit absurd. Apparently "sure" hands are not high on the Dolphins team priority list. Chambers has dropped more passes this decade than any other receiver, I imagine. Then they've now taken two rookies, Ginn and Hagan, who don't have great hands either.

Cincinnati Bengals select Kenny Irons, RB, Auburn - The team has a bevy of defensive needs. Yet, they take a Running Back. I'm not high on Irons either. Rudi Johnson, Chris Perry, are sufficient enough to hold off on a RB pick too early. I just don't see how he will help this team, that is on the verge, take it to the next level.

New Orleans Saints select Robert Meachem, WR, Tennessee - I like Meachem. I just don't like this pick. New Orleans has plenty of weapons. They were in a prime position to add a impact defensive player. Branch, Posluszny, Houston, for example. They have enough weapons at WR, with Colston, Henderson, Bush, Cooper, not to mention the draft is deep at WR. You have to go defense in this situation.

Last, but not least...

I figured it would be fitting for the topic that discusses the Oakland Raiders, the team with the first pick, be the last paragraph. I was very impressed with Al Davis' work this year. He has been much maligned. They took a franchise QB, something that has been a long time coming. They sufficiently filled all of their needs. Now they just need to wait will their youth on offense matures. Another thing they have done well is sign mid-range free agents that fit their scheme. Justin Griffith, Dominic Rhodes, Jeremy Newberry, for example. Jerry Porter has already come out in full support of the new coaching staff, so it's like they added a whole new player. I think this team is on it's way up, which is a refreshing change of direction for them.
I don't know whether I should be proud or ashamed. It is an interesting read now that we have access to the results almost three years to the date.

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BBD; the only thing we disagree on is Jamarcus Russell. I think me and Toonster have been the most pro-Russell of anyone on the board.
Proof positive that being renowned on a football forum doesn't mean jack.
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Old 12-12-2009, 02:27 AM    (permalink
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Well, it took guts to put your opinion in writing and to post it again a few years later for all to compare. Overall, I think you were more off than on but it was a good read.
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Old 12-12-2009, 02:30 AM    (permalink
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I don't know whether I should be proud or ashamed. It is an interesting read now that we have access to the results almost three years to the date.



Proof positive that being renowned on a football forum doesn't mean jack.
You may have been off, but to me, this write up was a pretty good one at the time. How can someone seriously analyze the draft accurately right after it happens? For your humbleness, I give you +rep.
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:02 AM    (permalink
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Robert Meachem is making A LOT of people eat their words right about now.
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:12 AM    (permalink
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Ouch, I thought Levi Brown was going to be better than Joe Thomas.

I'm still clinging onto hope that Brady Quinn will be the best qb from this draft class as I emphatically stated at the time, but its looking slim right now. And even if he is, thats not saying much anymore.

At least I was right about Russell. Never liked him.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Robert Meachem is making A LOT of people eat their words right about now.
This.

The 2007 Draft for me was special because it was the 1st draft I've followed full time.
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Old 12-12-2009, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Yea, great read Shiver. It's interesting to read these things a few years after so we can see a decent size sampling of players at this point. Nobody knows how these guys will pan out 2 days after the draft, all you can judge the teams off of is the value they got for players and how good you think they may end up being.



I think looking back Atlanta or Tampa Bay would of easily traded up to #2 for Calvin and paid whatever price Detroit was asking, I didn't see anything later in their draft picks that would of stopped them from making that deal. Maybe Calvin makes ATL a few games better so they miss out on Matty Ice, but I really liked the idea of him staying home in ATL.


Also, it's not like it was a real good year in general to want a QB no matter who it was. Jury is still out on Quinn, but this year is a prime example of why teams don't take a QB just because they need one.


This was the year Dallas took Spencer over Woodley :( While Spencer has came around pretty well and developed a very good overall game vs the run and pass and coverage so he was well worth trading back for(since he was our guy through the entire process), he's nowhere near the monster at rushing the passer Woodley is. I don't think too many people saw Woodley being that dominant as an edge rusher though, and I had no problem with Spencer at the time.
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Old 12-12-2009, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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Wow, I can't believe people thought JT was a bad pass blocker. Funny how much things change.
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<+DG> how is buy one get one free wasting?
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<+njx9> i'm pretty sure your people still eat boots in north korea, bantx. they don't know what vegetables are.
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
Robert Meachem is making A LOT of people eat their words right about now.
Well for a first round pick he hasn't exactly produced all that much; that being said his limited role is much more positive than Chris Houston's "contributions."
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Old 12-12-2009, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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1 19 Michael Griffin- Having a bad year
2 50 Chris Henry - sucks/cut working at McDonalds or playing 4th string with the texans.
3 80 Paul Williams- practice squad, lost out to a 6th round pick.
4 115 Leroy Harris - Pretty damn good, can play every position on the line. It is a shame he cant be a starter somewhere.
4 128 Chris Davis- Sucks hard
5 152 Antonio Johnson - good but playing with the Colts.
6 188 Joel Filani-LOL
6 204 Jacob Ford - Good pass-rusher.
6 206 Ryan Smith- LOL
7 223 Michael Otto- Good OT/OG might be a future starter one day.


All and we still only got one starter out of this draft. The Chris Henry pick blew monkey *****.
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Old 12-12-2009, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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Chris Henry was an Al Davis-esque pick. He's fast.
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Old 12-12-2009, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Chris Henry was an Al Davis-esque pick. He's fast.
In all fairness people said that same exact thing about Chris Johnson, that's probably why people hated the pick so much and killed Tennessee for basically doing the same thing again; taking a speed back/workout warrior.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 12-12-2009, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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The fact that we had eleven picks, three in the top-40 and only ended up with one decent starter is a testimony to how awful Rich McKay is.
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Old 12-12-2009, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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In all fairness people said that same exact thing about Chris Johnson, that's probably why people hated the pick so much and killed Tennessee for basically doing the same thing again; taking a speed back/workout warrior.
Well, not really. Chris Johnson put up some very, very good production at ECU. The thing people hated on was that he was, well, from ECU. I remember when i thought he was underrated enough to land to Dallas in the second round. I wanted either him or Jamaal Football. At this point i would rather have Jamaal over Felix. Dude can't stay healthy :/
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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I bet 99% of draft fans thought Chris Johnson was a terrible pick...not much sense in feeling bad about getting that one wrong.

Here's the 08 Packer draft. Pretty poor effort. I give it a D, the only starters are an average fullback and a kicker most fans want cut.

1-16 Justin Harrell DT Tennessee
Everyone hated the pick, everyone still hates the pick. A rare boom/bust effort by Ted Thompson. Everyone said he gets hurt too much, and he's been hurt ever since he got here. Currently he is on the roster on IR but his back is so screwed up I don't think he'll ever be able to play football again.

2-63 Brandon Jackson RB Nebraska
He was supposed to replace Ahman Green as the starting running back or at least be part of a committee. RB was a huge need for us at the time. Too bad he was small, slow, and sucked at pass blocking. He fell flat on his face with a terrible YPC then got hurt. He's doing OK as a backup now but he seriously lacks the tools needed to be a running back in the NFL.

3-78 James Jones WR San Jose State
This was a pretty good pick that everyone called a huge reach at the time. He's a good 3rd receiver for us and even though his triangle numbers aren't too impressive he gets separation and catches the ball well. He plays tough and uses his hands well.

3-89 Aaron Rouse SAF Virginia Tech
Cut this year. Had great triangle numbers but never translated them into a football career. Saw some time filling in as a backup and even made some plays but was inconsistent in coverage and never was able to play "low" enough standing at 6'4". I thought he would do well covering big tight ends or moving into the box playing like a 4th linebacker which he has the size to do but he got cut and now he's giving up touchdowns for the Giants I believe.

4-119 Allen Barbre G Missouri Southern State
Small school guy with great potential and terrible technique. Was supposed to be our RT this year but sucked so bad with his footwork and quickness we had to bring Tauscher out of retirement after blowing out his knee.

5-157 David Clowney WR Virginia Tech
Decent player that couldn't make the roster because we had other receivers step up and outplay him. He's doing pretty well as a reserve on the Jets now I believe.

6-191 Korey Hall FB Boise State
Only starter, converted linebacker to fullback who has been very average. Average speed, decent lead blocker, will catch a pass or run a dive once in a blue moon.

6-192 Desmond Bishop LB California
Good pick but hasn't won a starting job yet, although some people think he's outplayed Hawk. Below average speed but a big hitter and playmaker, but not as assignment reliable. Should do well playing inside in a 3-4 when someone gives him a chance.

6-193 Mason Crosby K Colorado
Had a good rookie year. Apparently our ST coach adjusted his fundamentals and since then he's missed way to many field goals. Good leg, able to boom kickoffs as good as anyone, able to get the distance for 60 yard field goals, but rarely has the accuracy to be good from 40+.

7-228 DeShawn Wynn RB Florida
Solid pick, good runner. People questioned his work ethic at the time and that's still pretty much the situation. Runs well, blocks well, has spent significant time on IR though.

7-243 Clark Harris TE Rutgers
Was supposed to be our long snapper but he got cut for some reason.
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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Giants draft was sick!!!
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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1. Levi Brown - Not worth the pick, has been a decent starter but not worth passing on AD, worst pick Graves has made

2. Alan Branch - Finally starting to show up this year, the switch to the 3-4 has helped him a ton, and he is a beast in goal line situations

3. BUSTer Davis - enough said, couldn't make the roster our of training camp

5. Steve Breaston - HUUUGEEE steal, could be a #2 or #1 on most teams and it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals choose to pay him over Boldin

7. Ben Patrick - Solid receiver, has improved his blocking a ton, good value for a 7th rounder
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