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Old 05-02-2007, 12:14 AM    (permalink
Xenos
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The only problem I see with what the Patriots are doing is the potential locker room problems. No not from the characters of the player they acquire, but from the amount. I mean I feel they overpaid for Wes Walker when they could have spent it on Deion Branch. It's one thing to overpay a player on your own team, it's something else entirely to do for someone else. It can cause your own players to feel angry and upset about being paid so cheaply. I think it already started to rear its ugly head with the comments Asante Samuel made earlier this year.
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Old 05-02-2007, 01:31 AM    (permalink
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The only problem I see with what the Patriots are doing is the potential locker room problems. No not from the characters of the player they acquire, but from the amount. I mean I feel they overpaid for Wes Walker when they could have spent it on Deion Branch. It's one thing to overpay a player on your own team, it's something else entirely to do for someone else. It can cause your own players to feel angry and upset about being paid so cheaply. I think it already started to rear its ugly head with the comments Asante Samuel made earlier this year.
Agreed. What are the Pats going to do when/if Samuel holds out? Switch Randy Moss to DB?
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:12 AM    (permalink
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I'd say adding Tory James and Brandon Meriweather addresses that. What are the Jets going to do if Jonathan Vilma sneezes hard and falls off a boat and the Loch Ness Monster eats him? You know, hypothetically...
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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Default Dynasty nearing end.

There dynasty is beginning to close. New teams are rising -New Orleans, Arizona, Niners, Chicago. Tom Brady is getting old but still the best behind Montana. He just needs veteran,elite, and skilled supporting cast to continue there dynasty maybe for the next 5years then it will be down hill from there.
Niners might starting another one again. Niners has an excellent coach-totally competent, excellent team president and scouting, owner willing to spend.
Niners in control of salary cap now.The future for the niners looks amazing.
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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There dynasty is beginning to close. New teams are rising -New Orleans, Arizona, Niners, Chicago. Tom Brady is getting old but still the best behind Montana. He just needs veteran,elite, and skilled supporting cast to continue there dynasty maybe for the next 5years then it will be down hill from there.
Niners might starting another one again. Niners has an excellent coach-totally competent, excellent team president and scouting, owner willing to spend.
Niners in control of salary cap now.The future for the niners looks amazing.
Dynast may be ending but there are better examples of teams to use then Arizona and the Niners...
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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I would have to say the Patriots are going to be unstopable and better this year than last year. I'm picking them for the SB champs.
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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I'd say adding Tory James and Brandon Meriweather addresses that. What are the Jets going to do if Jonathan Vilma sneezes hard and falls off a boat and the Loch Ness Monster eats him? You know, hypothetically...
The liklihood of Asante Samuel holding out is much greater than the liklihood that Jonathan Vilma sneezes hard and falls off a boat and is eaten by the Loch Ness Monster.
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Thank you captain obvious.
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Old 05-02-2007, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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I'd say adding Tory James and Brandon Meriweather addresses that. What are the Jets going to do if Jonathan Vilma sneezes hard and falls off a boat and the Loch Ness Monster eats him? You know, hypothetically...
Adding an old cornerback who's best days are behind him and a rookie safety that could or could not succeed in the NFL doesn't solve anything. I usually agree with the Pat's decision but that's usually because the people they let go were over the hill, while Asante Samuel is just getting into his prime at a position that is very important.
Your chances of making it to the super bowl would become much more difficult if you lose Samuel. Heck, if anything this offseason could start a chain of events when you want to extend other up and coming players from your team, and you can't because they want even more money. It could very well become a domino effect since the Pats diverged from their winning formula. Look what it did to the Eagles. Giving huge payday checks to big name FA aren't the key to become competitive year in and year out like you and the Eagles have proven in the past.
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Would you say Tory James is better than Ray Mickens? Would you say Brandon Meriweather is better than Artrell Hawkins? That's all we need. And they are. Asante will be fine. I am not remotely worried. He is one out of 22 starters. The whole team isn't going to fall apart because of Asante Samuel.

Our offense is set up to be as high powered an offense as there is in the league. Anyone who is legitimately trying to argue that the Patriots offense should not be lethal is absolutely insane.

And again, I CHALLENGE ANYONE to listen to those interviews from the men who actually established "the Patriots philosophy/winning formula" and tell them they are wrong about what that "philosophy/formula" is. I don't want to hear lectures from outsiders who think they know and want to tell me what the "the Patriots philosophy/winning formula" is. I live, eat and breathe this team. I've been here through the whole thing. I think I'm more qualified to make that assessment. Clearly, anyone who thinks the Patriots are doing anything different here is completely misinformed...
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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Would you say Tory James is better than Ray Mickens? Would you say Brandon Meriweather is better than Artrell Hawkins? That's all we need. And they are. Asante will be fine. I am not remotely worried. He is one out of 22 starters. The whole team isn't going to fall apart because of Asante Samuel.

Our offense is set up to be as high powered an offense as there is in the league. Anyone who is legitimately trying to argue that the Patriots offense should not be lethal is absolutely insane.

And again, I CHALLENGE ANYONE to listen to those interviews from the men who actually established "the Patriots philosophy/winning formula" and tell them they are wrong. I don't want to hear lectures from outsiders who think they know and want to tell me what the "the Patriots philosophy/winning formula" is. I live, eat and breathe this team. I've been here through the whole thing. I think I'm more qualified to make that assessment. Clearly, anyone who thinks the Patriots are doing anything different here is completely misinformed...
Alright then tell me what the Patriots winning formula is then.
I've always believed it was drafting to build the team, and going after low cost good character FAs, if any, that didn't hurt your salary cap, because then you'll be able to use that money to extend your own big name talent.

Oh and I still don't know how your offense will be high powered. Stallsworth hasn't exactly been the model of consistency and durability. Moss takes plays off even when he was in Minnesota and even when he wasn't, teams seemed to have figured him out now.

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Old 05-02-2007, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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Thank you captain obvious.
Well hey, if you are going to make absurd statements in a legit argument, then I'll have to be captain obvious and point that out.
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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I don't have to tell you anything, there are two links on the second page where BILL BELICHICK and SCOTT PIOLI can tell you allllll about it. They are right, you are wrong, that's all there is to it.

And seriously, it's May 2nd. I am not going to spend the next three-four months debating this crap. This thread was started by an idiot Jets fan who wants to stretch anything the Patriots do into something it's not to make him feel better about himself. As proven on the first page, he has started thread after thread in the wake of the draft trying to put the Jets over. Whatever. I am not going to sit here and argue with a bunch of nitwits that think they know more about this team then I do. We can all speculate who is going to do what until we're blue in the face, no one is going to be right or wrong until the season is over. So whatever.
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Well hey, if you are going to make absurd statements in a legit argument, then I'll have to be captain obvious and point that out.
You mean to tell me it isn't likely that Jonathan Vilma may fall off a boat and get eaten by the Lock Ness Monster? NO WAY!!

How about if he gets slashed up while camping by Big Foot? Maybe killed in his dreams by Freddy? Maybe pecked to death by Penguins at the North Pole????
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Old 05-02-2007, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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Why should I have to tell you anything? All that information is readily available straight from the horses mouth at the links provided. I'd say Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli are much more qualified to tell you that you are wrong then I am...

And I've already sited examples. So whatever. You clearly want to believe what you want to believe, so I'll just take solace knowing you're wrong.
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Old 05-02-2007, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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They've signed... no... traded for one superstar level player this offseason. How often does any team sign a "superstar level player" in an offseason? I think it's safe to say the Patriots do it about as often...

So you are still wrong. They have no signed any "superstar level players" this offseason. They've signed some pretty good players at very reasonable rates.

And since you clearly are not interested in why you are wrong and clearly have no intention of listening to what the guys who actually run the organization have to say, I'm just going to let that speak for itself. You're wrong. Plain and simple. The Patriots continue to operate under the mantra that they are going to bring in the best players for the best price.
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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They've signed... no... traded for one superstar level player this offseason. How often does any team sign a "superstar level player" in an offseason? I think it's safe to say the Patriots do it about as often...

So you are still wrong. They have no signed any "superstar level players" this offseason. They've signed some pretty good players at very reasonable rates.

And since you clearly are not interested in why you are wrong and clearly have no intention of listening to what the guys who actually run the organization have to say, I'm just going to let that speak for itself. You're wrong. Plain and simple. The Patriots continue to operate under the mantra that they are going to bring in the best players for the best price.
Therein lies the problem. They're paying a lot of money for decent to medicore talent (Wes Walker gets a 20 million dollar, 5 year contract, with 9 million guaranteed?). I mean how do you think most players on your team will feel about that especially since the Patriots paid that much for a utility player and not a starter. Obviously, you'll probably be fine this season but it's going to come back and possibly bite you later along the line when you need to extend some key guys.

Oh and the links' aren't working for me for some odd reason.

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Old 05-02-2007, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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You mean to tell me it isn't likely that Jonathan Vilma may fall off a boat and get eaten by the Lock Ness Monster? NO WAY!!

How about if he gets slashed up while camping by Big Foot? Maybe killed in his dreams by Freddy? Maybe pecked to death by Penguins at the North Pole????
And the odds of Samuel holding out are 50/50. Something you are avoiding with all of this absurd creatures of myth talk.
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Therein lies the problem. They're paying a lot of money for decent to medicore talent (Wes Walker gets a 20 million dollar, 5 year contract, with 9 million guaranteed?). I mean how do you think most players on your team will feel about that especially since the Patriots paid that much for a utility player and not a starter. Obviously, you'll probably be fine this season but it's going to come back and possibly bite you later along the line when you need to extend some key guys.

Oh and the links' aren't working for me for some odd reason.
welker is going to start as the slot receiver
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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welker is going to start as the slot receiver
Slot is considered a "starting" position? I've seen the Jets start the first play in a two TE set, does that mean we can call our 2nd string TE a "starter" too?
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Slot is considered a "starting" position? I've seen the Jets start the first play in a two TE set, does that mean we can call our 2nd string TE a "starter" too?
when ur offense consists of mainly 3 wr sets then yes i would consider him a starter. how many teams actually start with a fb in the game consistently?



also, this is from the patriots website that has pioli and bellicheck talking about the recent moves (someone said the movie links weren't working.

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.c...=25070&pcid=41
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Slot is considered a "starting" position? I've seen the Jets start the first play in a two TE set, does that mean we can call our 2nd string TE a "starter" too?
The slot position is evolving. I would actually consider a the slot guy to be a starter. Even if they don't meet the strict definition of starting, they contribute enough to an offense to be considered a starter. 3 reciever sets are becoming the standard these days anyway.
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Here is what people don't seem to understand: Wes Welker will never, NEVER see his 18.1 million over the next five years.

The Patriots saw a player they wanted and they got him. That's all there is to it. That's all there is to it. They didn't overpay. He's guaranteed 9 million over 5 years.

Adalius Thomas was the best defensive player on the market this offseason, and was the PERFECT Patriot-type player. The Patriots needed LB's and they got their guy, and they got him for less money then other teams were offering. He's not a superstar, and he's not getting paid superstar money. He will be getting paid well, but that's part of the process. And the Patriots defense is much, MUCH better with him on the team. Not even up for debate.

So then there's Donte Stallworth, who signed a glorified one year contract. They are paying him 3.6 million this year. He was the best receiver on the market, and they got him. He will NEVER see any of the other money on his contract. EVER. If your team was weak at the receiver position and they had the opportunity to add the best one on the open market at a decent price, wouldn't you want them to do it?

Randy Moss is guaranteed THREE million this year. The Patriots will make that back in jersey sales before the season even starts.

This entire conversation is ridiculous. The Pats have won three Super Bowls this decade, and are poised to continue their run as one of the powers of the NFL. That's all there is to it. They are every bit as desperate as every other team in the NFL. No more, no less.
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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"The Patriots are starting to feel like the Redskins." And while they aren't yet on that level, they are signing malcontents and risky players to good sized money. The Skins would have extended Moss, and the Pats shortened him, but the point still stands that they aren't the team everyone thinks of them as. No longer are they all about Character and good business moves. They are now like so many other teams, all about winning right away.
Im not sure about that. The guys they've added are pretty good. Merriweather had one brain fart in a game where nearly everyone had a brain fart. Other than that he is actually clean(honestly, licensed gun in itself says to me he has his head screwed on, I cant remember the last time I heard a pro athlete get in trouble with guns and it was licensed). Welker by all accounts is a Belichek type of guy. Moss is a question mark, but Moss never caused any kind of locker room problems until he was losing. In his early days he had an attitude, but it was just a cocky guy who was winning. He went to the **** when they lost. Sure, he has his problems, but he is extremely talented and they wont take any crap from him.

Thomas is just a great signing. You weaken a top rival for the ring, you significantly improve one of your weaknesses. Just a good signing. I've never heard anything bad on Adalius.

Stallworth hasnt acted up since he left NO. Same deal as Moss really, once he got out of a god awful situation he was fine. Model citizen even. I mean winning will put things in perspective for most people.

I like all the signings, they gave up a little much for Welker, but he is a good fit. The big concern for the Pats at the moment should be getting Asante back and content. He is important to them.
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:45 PM    (permalink
Xenos
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Originally Posted by Bigburt63 View Post
when ur offense consists of mainly 3 wr sets then yes i would consider him a starter. how many teams actually start with a fb in the game consistently?



also, this is from the patriots website that has pioli and bellicheck talking about the recent moves (someone said the movie links weren't working.

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.c...=25070&pcid=41
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