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Old 12-19-2006, 10:24 PM    (permalink
 
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Can you guys please beat the Falcons on Sunday???


What do you put your chances at?
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:03 PM    (permalink
JPF
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.000000000000000000000000000005%


BTW...Mike Wahle is now on IR as well.

Mixed thoughts on everything else...

This team is so screwed up I honestly have no idea what to expect us to do this offseason. You can go any of about 5 different ways and not be way off base.

Any one else wonder if Fox will use Ruckers' injury as reason to take a DE in round 1?

JJ- You seem to be forgetting about the big contracts of Kemo and Hartwig this past offseason when you say we haven't made any major moves. Not saying we are becoming the Redskins, but both of their contracts are actually bigger than Keys from what I remember without looking it up.

Honestly, I'd like to see us can this whole coaching staff, trim some fat from the roster that's wasting cap room, and go QB in round 1. I could see maybe giving Fox another year with different coordinators but if we still saw the same problems after then, give him the axe too.

Fox's view on early Qbs is ridiculous. None of the guys he's drafted later since he's been here have done squadush. Fasani was a wasted pick, and LeFors was as well.

I hate to say it guys, but I already in the back of my mind had thought this was the last realistic year of our window with the current configuration of the team. Given how that's worked out, it may be time to start from scratch building for 2008 around Smith, Peppers, Williams, and Davis.
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Next season;

D'Anthony Batiste
Taye Biddle
Dion Byrum
Keary Colbert
Todd Fordham
Brandon Jamison
Dave Kadela
Jeff King
Kevin McCadam
Kindal Moorehead
Christian Morton
Scott Peters
Nate Salley
Mike Seidman
Derrick Strait
Chris Weinke

shouldn't be on the roster. I also don't think we should look at veteran free agents this offseason, we need to add some youth to the roster. Look to the draft, look to undrafted rookie free agents, and look to players who have never really gotten the opportunity to show what they can do on other rosters. We already have the talent to be a contender, we just need the motivation and the coaching. I think if we looked to the college ranks, we could address both issues. Offensive and defensive coordinators who have fresh ideas and are excited about the opportunity to coach at the NFL level would have a positive effect for our entire roster.
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ShutDwn
Smith was fine until weinke came. He deserves to make it.
He was doing pretty good I agree but fell off during Delhomme's last couple games as well, missed 2 games at the beginning of the year and dropped a lot of balls when he came back. Id take this season from a WR every year if it was offered but there's a lot of good WRs in the NFL and probably a couple in the NFC who deserve a chance to go over Smith this season. Peppers had a good season too, he just did all the work in the first 8 games

Rucker actually looked good the last few games, I hope we give him another chance before we give some other guys like Morgan their 20th. I think he's an underrated part of our run defense and if we get rid of him it'll fall apart next year unless Jenkins/Kemo and the LBs step it up. DE has become a draft need, though. Just think we have more pressing needs for round 1 and I dont like Adams or Moses that much. I hope we get to see what McClover can do this week and next

I still think we dont need to blow this team up. We've been up and down every year since Fox got here (despite being an improvement over 1-15, the first 7-9 year could have been so much more if we werent using Rodney freaking Peete) and have an easier schedule next year (0-4 against the tough NFC East this year). I think one reason we've lost so many close games is that we cut a lot of leaders and vets last offseason. Getting rid of more isnt going to help unless theyre named Karl Hankton. If Proehl isnt resigned by Indy immediately I go out and get him for next year (cut Colbert), but I doubt our staff would be willing to admit that mistake.

Injuries have been an overlooked downfall to our season just because we're used to having them every year. But think about it. Starting center never plays, starting LT out after one game, using street CBs for 2 games and never having the real Lucas, never having the real Wahle (the shoulder injury has bothered him all season), Smith out the first 2 games, Delhomme gone, Foster/DW both missing time, Diggs out a couple games, Morgan being Morgan, Shaun Williams out a couple games and Rucker now...

It may look real bad right now but so did 1-7 after going to the Super Bowl
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPF
I hate to say it guys, but I already in the back of my mind had thought this was the last realistic year of our window with the current configuration of the team. Given how that's worked out, it may be time to start from scratch building for 2008 around Smith, Peppers, Williams, and Davis.
I don't think it will take 2008. A new quarterback, a new left tackle, a new safety, and we're a true contender once again. You should also list Richard Marshall on that list of players to build around. I think he'll be an impact player for us for years to come.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Fox = total idiot.

I mean, who doesn't love the theory of having nobody ready to step in when Jake is gone? Keep jake, I don't care, but I do care if he is expected to be the qb of the future and we sit idle waiting till someone finally has the ******* guts to break it off with him. Then what do we do?


We need to get someone now, they don't have to replace him right away, but by next year.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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I like the idea of getting young players to fill all the loose ends, it's not like the ST team can get any worse to begin with. Sure would have been nice to have Jarret Bush when we were using Dion Byrum and Morton...

I'd like a safety and an LB in FA. The LB can be a guy with something to prove since I plan on drafting one too and Morgan is probably back in the mix despite my wishes. Same with safety, McCree had something to prove...Shaun Williams is just an old crony of Fox's
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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Get guys who are going to go out and play for respect and to show they deserve to be there. Not guys that you already know and pretty much have told they have the position. Sounds a little like Steve smith?

I want Jarret Bush back, he was one of those guys.
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Old 12-20-2006, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJoe2k5
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPF
I hate to say it guys, but I already in the back of my mind had thought this was the last realistic year of our window with the current configuration of the team. Given how that's worked out, it may be time to start from scratch building for 2008 around Smith, Peppers, Williams, and Davis.
I don't think it will take 2008. A new quarterback, a new left tackle, a new safety, and we're a true contender once again.
As well as a mlb that can stay on the field, and a de to replace Rucker whom will probably be cut due to his injury/contract status, and a safety to replace which ever one you think should stay (they both suck), and a return man that runs the right way without fumbling the ball....

This year will be about the draft man. We don't have the caproom to sign anyone that can come in and be much of an immediate impact at all of these positions.

Little chance we fill all those needs in the draft in one year.

Quote:
You should also list Richard Marshall on that list of players to build around. I think he'll be an impact player for us for years to come.
I forgot all about him. I was in the middle of playing poker and it was my turn so I was rushing to post before it timed out.
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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There will be room. The cap is increasing a pretty substantial amount again, if we really cut Rucker and others theyll make some room and Hurney is pretty good with cap management. I'm not sure who I really want though...only guy I like in positions we need is Ken Hamlin.
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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It's not increasing as much as you seem to think. It's increasing about 7 million dollars.

Especially considering we just had at least one player, if not three players hit salary escalators for reaching the Pro Bowl. Peppers alone is 3 mill.
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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We should trade Gamble, try and find Jarret Bush, who is with the Packers right now.


Marshall is going to be better than Gamble, he has a much better mentality and he has already almost reached Gamble's level.


I think we should try and get a QB in the first, get a LB like David Harris, who will come in trying to prove people wrong.


We need to bring guys who have a chip on their shoulder, but not a chip as in injury like fox seems to like.
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Old 12-21-2006, 01:54 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman
I like the idea of getting young players to fill all the loose ends, it's not like the ST team can get any worse to begin with. Sure would have been nice to have Jarret Bush when we were using Dion Byrum and Morton...

I'd like a safety and an LB in FA. The LB can be a guy with something to prove since I plan on drafting one too and Morgan is probably back in the mix despite my wishes. Same with safety, McCree had something to prove...Shaun Williams is just an old crony of Fox's
I'll agree with you there. I don't understand why we ever let Bush go in the first place, atleast he was someone who has experience in our system and has shown that he can be successful in our system. I really wonder where the heck Dion Byrum came from.
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Old 12-21-2006, 04:34 AM    (permalink
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I think we should try and get a QB in the first, get a LB like David Harris, who will come in trying to prove people wrong.
I really liked Ryans last year...he slipped because he doesnt have the measurables but the fact was he was a beast in Alabama and had intangibles out the ass. I always look into the intangibles guys because our staff supposedly likes them (I think they just use it as an excuse for draft picks that make no sense because they dont really target them more than anyone else...they just stay away from bad character guys) but I remember Ryans really stood out with some of the stuff he did down there. Some people just wont be denied success and Ryans was one of them. I gotta look more into Harris before grouping him in with those type though. I really, really like Patrick Willis because he seems to have that mix of drive and "IT" factor that players like Marshall and Smith have. DW has IT but he seems a bit too happy go lucky to have the drive...same with Peppers. Biggest plus for Willis is he can play any LB spot, so he can be pencilled in at WLB until Morgan gets injured and then take over MLB. The attitude is why I loved Marshall during the draft and still do. He's not nearly as polished as I thought (which is why he fell to our 2nd pick) but I'm confident that he'll make up for it.

I kind of like how the last few years we took some risks and drafted guys with talent like Davis and Gamble but talent is no longer the problem, it's drive and execution. Time to bring in some smart guys who just want to play and win.

For that very reason the only QB I like this year is Troy Smith. I know you guys like him a lot too and Im not jumping on the bandwagon, he has "IT" and I think the height stuff is BS unless he's like 5'9. Worst case scenario we have a back-up QB who doesnt suck. I think he compares to Jeff Garcia with a better arm. I'm not a big fan of bringing in a failed starter like Carr or Leftwich or a WCO guy like Schaub in FA. Yet, I dont think picking Smith with our Top 15 pick is wise if his draft stock stays the way it is. If we cant trade to get Troy in late round1/early 2 (or if Fox doesnt even consider it like he seems to put off) I'd like to bring in someone who never really got a fair shot like Tim Rattay or Josh McCown. I liked Basanez a lot in preseason actually but his arm looked pretty weak last week so Im guessing hes not a serious option.

I really wish there was a DE in the draft I could get behind but there just isnt, I hope McClover shows up next week and makes us not have to worry about it
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:54 AM    (permalink
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David Harris is kind of the same way as Ryans, who if anyone remembers, I wanted extremely bad last year.

Buster Davis is definitely one of those Ryans type players, but he may have better measurable and just as much intellect. He could, like Ryans fall into the second round.


Willis would probably be the only guy at LB worth taking with out pick most likely in the teens. We could also look at Reggie Nelson if he comes out, or maybe Landry falls?

Troy Smith in the right system can succeed. He has the right stuff. His arm is under rated, his height is over rated, and he is a film rat. He can deffinatley play if he is put into a good system and is allowed to develop. He is like a bigger more athletic Jeff Garcia or Mark Brunell. He kind of looks like Garrard a bit too.
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Old 12-21-2006, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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http://www.nflfans.com/x/showthread.php?t=21920

Check this out. It's a complete mock draft for Carolina on one of the best Carolina sites around.
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Safety should be the #1 priority for Carolina. There are only 3 safeties on the roster, Minter, Deke Cooper and Salley!! TE has now become an option with new OC Jeff Davidson (Charlie Weis disciple). MLB not OLB is an area that needs to be addressed. DE depth is a need. No need anywhere for a DT. Injured LT and C coming back and the OL is switching to the ZBS (no cut-blocking though).
KR/PR MUST be addressed somewhere.
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Old 12-21-2006, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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He is like a bigger more athletic Jeff Garcia or Mark Brunell.
Ive always liked the Brunell comparison for Smith but every time I use it people get all uppity and think about the no-arm, no-legs guy that played on the Redskins and not the good QB he was on the Jags

I like the way that draft begins and ends B.C. I dont think we go after Milner, in fact I think we're done drafting TEs for a couple years. Gaines looks goofy out there but he's starting to show he can contribute and Jeff King reminds me so much of Mangum its scary. I wish we'd actually draft a blocking TE since thats all we use them for but oh well. Edwards is an intriguing prospect that everyone seems to like a la Kellen Clemens/Jay Cutler but I dont trust our staff with developing a QB. Everything else looks good.
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Old 12-21-2006, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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"We hear a clear sign that neither DeShaun Foster nor rookie DeAngelo Williams is the long-term answer at running back for the Panthers is how quickly the team gave up on the running game in Week 14 and allowed backup QB Chris Weinke to throw the ball 61 times. Sources tell us the Panthers will be in the market for a downhill, between-the-tackles runner in the offseason." Whispers P.F.W. 12-18-06

What would Panther fans think of this trade? Michael Turner and San Diego's 1ST Round Pick (in the 29 to 32 range), for Carolina's 1ST (10-15) plus a 4TH ROUND Pick. Turner in limited action has shown the ability to run inside and also has some breakaway speed. He's restricted free agent this year.

I will admit I am a Chargers Fan and would like them to get in a position to draft one of the top three safeties available, so I am biased. But Turner has been a very productive player in his limited role, and is a great kickoff returner as well. You still get a first round pick, and a player that might well be a heavy duty, 1200 yard rusher for you all.
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Of course they have given up on a player who has had one hundred yard games every time he is given the chance.

The Saints should forget about Reggie Bush too.
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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BIG Country, thanks for the link. Although I don't know if I would want to put the future of our quarterback position on someone who has been one major question mark his entire college career.

I think we can find our power runningback in the draft, Tony Hunt would be perfect and we wouldn't need to use our first-round pick on him. DeAngelo Williams IS our future at runningback, don't let any website tell you otherwise.

I still think we should look to address the offensive line before we address any skill positions in the offseason. If we continue to allow defensive ends to rush freely from the quarterback's blind-side, any player we put behind center will be just as vulnerable as Delhomme or Weinke. If we continue to have little to no push at all in the middle of the line, Williams will continue to run into two or three defenders as soon as he receives the hand-off.
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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JustJoe2k5 hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.JustJoe2k5 hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
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CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) If you listen to sports talk radio long enough in these parts, you might get convinced that global warming is Dan Henning's fault, too.

Callers line up to take shots at Carolina's offensive coordinator: The Panthers are too conservative. They don't throw deep enough. They don't run enough.

And don't even bring up the draw plays on third-and-long.

``I think he's the same guy who writes down the man laws on that beer commercial,'' one caller said recently of the 65-year-old, white-haired coach.

But Henning still has some fans, and they include his boss and his players.

``I can only tell you that it's the same plays that almost won us a Super Bowl and took us to an NFC championship game,'' Panthers coach John Fox said Thursday. ``So I don't think (the coaching staff) became village idiots overnight.''

But Henning has been called even worse in what has been a hugely disappointing 6-8 season. The Panthers' offense, which was clicking a year ago when they reached the NFC championship game, has fallen flat this year:

- It is averaging only 16.3 points per game, eight fewer than last season.

- It has the worst third-down conversion rate (29.3 percent) in the NFL and had just 45 yards rushing in a loss to the New York Giants two weeks ago, and 43 last week in an embarrassing 37-3 loss to Pittsburgh.

- Steve Smith, who led the league in receiving last season, hasn't had more than 67 yards receiving in the past four games.

``The two toughest positions, in my opinion, in professional sports are quarterback and kicker. They both will kill you,'' wide receiver Keyshawn Johnson said.

``Well, now you can throw in the offensive coordinator. He'll get you killed, too. Everybody points to the kicker missing field goals, the quarterback didn't hit his right reads and the offensive coordinator isn't calling the right plays.''

Henning, in his 28th NFL season and his fifth with Carolina, hasn't had much to work with. Offensive line starters Travelle Wharton, Justin Hartwig and Mike Wahle all are lost to season-ending injuries.

``It's been a big reason for why we've struggled offensively,'' fullback Brad Hoover said. ``I think Dan has done a great job for us. Over the last five years we've been consistent, we're just not executing well enough this year.''

Carolina also has played the past two weeks without quarterback Jake Delhomme, who has a sprained right thumb. Chris Weinke has thrown four interceptions and has been sacked seven times in the past two weeks.

But Henning, a former head coach with Atlanta and San Diego, has received most of the criticism. And the Panthers do run a lot of draws on third-and-long, have often come up with 4-yard pass plays on third-and-7, and can't seem to get Smith more involved.

``When the plays come into the huddle I can understand what he's trying to get done,'' Johnson said. ``I think a lot of times people don't understand that. It could be third-and-4 and they may say, 'Why are they throwing that?' Well, something happened where it triggered the quarterback to have to do that.''

A lot of it stems from a lack of running game due to the banged-up offensive line. The Panthers have thrown the ball 167 more times than they've run it.

For the run-happy Fox, that's not conservative.

``If anything, we haven't been conservative enough,'' Fox said. ``A lot time situations and circumstances tailor it that way.''

Henning, who has declined interview requests since the start of the regular season, still has the confidence of his head coach.

``Our record may indicate it, but I don't think we've become dumb coaches this season,'' Fox said.
That hurts my heart. We may need a new head coach.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:28 PM    (permalink
SchizophrenicBatman
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Eh, if you think about it a lot of the plays that have killed us this year have been the "creative" ones. Ex. the Gamble ST play, Keyshawn throwing the ball, etc. I think he's also referring to Weinke throwing the ball 60 times from shotgun which isnt smart either. The normal playcalling could definitely be less vanilla, but I think that isnt necessarily the same thing as conservative

DW can run between the tackles just fine. He picks up those 3rd and 1s that Foster has never been able to get. We dont really need a power back and if we do get one he will be the back up. I like Turner but we just dont need him. If we bring in anyone it will be an UDFA that falls under the radar like Jon Cornish or Germaine Race. I think the talk of going after a big name power RB is just dumb rumors like the Brady Quinn one. We have bigger problems to take care of anyway
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Old 12-21-2006, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Eric Shelton did horrible in his limited carries didn't he? Guys, we have a massive back on our team but we haven't even tried him out in game. That is pathetic and tells me they aren't looking for answers.
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Old 12-21-2006, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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Shelton looked fine but he certainly didnt look like he ran with power. More of Ron Dayne/Shaun Alexander type who's big but slides through holes rather than rams through them
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Old 12-21-2006, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman
Shelton looked fine but he certainly didnt look like he ran with power. More of Ron Dayne/Shaun Alexander type who's big but slides through holes rather than rams through them
He seemed to run with a good amount of power. You don't always need the best bruiser, we need better push too. That and less obvious play calling. Play calling will always trump execution.
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