Denver Broncos Discussion - Page 101

Timbathia · 09-25-2011, 11:37 PM

I dont want to make this about why Fox is not starting Tebow. That being said, during the season last year it was plainly obvious that pulling Orton at the goal line and putting in Tebow was an exceptionally effective way at scoring short-yardage touchdowns. Starting running backs get pulled at the goal line all the time in the NFL. Why is pulling a QB inside the 5 such a problem? Our o-line gets a crap push, and our starting QB is anti-clutch in the red zone. Starting QB debate aside - put the ******* guy in that gets you short ******* yardage tds. For **** sake.

CT Bronco Fan · 09-26-2011, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

i love the play-calling. 'what, did you say we can't run up the middle because our offensive line is terrible? f that, i'm calling three straight dive plays.'

I can understand not starting Tebow, but I am baffled as to why he didn't get a play on the goal line.

jCut · 09-26-2011, 10:40 AM

Looked like our defense was real solid. McCoy needs to go. I'm still baffled that he was kept. Just because he and Fox had prior history? Please.

And Orton proves yet again that he is piss-poor in clutch situations.

Diehard · 09-26-2011, 12:03 PM

Elway was on 102.3 this morning and was asked why Tebow didn't come in for the goal line plays. Instead of the typical "Orton's our guy" answer, he said something like "that's a very good question" and mentioned the various packages they installed for Tebow. That got my attention a bit, as did his comments about Orton starting being a "week by week" thing.

njx9 · 09-26-2011, 12:30 PM

meh. it's time. put tebow in full time. i think it's clear that starting orton or not, this isn't a good football team, and it's not a football team that's going to win more than a small handful of games. at least tebow: 1) keeps the fans excited/interested/means i don't have to hear about it anymore and 2) gives the coaching staff a realistic chance to decide if there's enough there to go on, or if qb is our top off-season need. i'm pretty sure he'll show that his throwing motion is unfixable, that he's not really a good enough thrower to play at an nfl level, and that our horrific red zone offense had/has nothing to do with orton.

Diehard · 09-26-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

2) gives the coaching staff a realistic chance to decide if there's enough there to go on, or if qb is our top off-season need. i'm pretty sure he'll show that his throwing motion is unfixable, that he's not really a good enough thrower to play at an nfl level, and that our horrific red zone offense had/has nothing to do with orton.

I agree - putting Tebow in is going to answer a lot of questions one way or another. It needs to be done and I think it probably will happen... maybe after the bye?

njx9 · 09-26-2011, 08:01 PM

seems likely. from the sound of it, elway's fairly frustrated (with good reason). and it just makes too much sense. there are still so many holes before this team is even a .500 club. might as well make sure you know where all of the holes are before the offseason (i'd certainly extend this to giving some playing time to any of our rookies/younger players).

njx9 · 10-02-2011, 06:46 PM

welp, hopefully that's as much of a role as moreno ever has again in this offense.

and orton should no longer be playing. there's no reason to continue to put him out there when he can't get it done.

jCut · 10-02-2011, 10:00 PM

Didn't watch the game, but I did see the pick-six Orton threw to Woodson (really dumb decision). I really don't see why Orton gets so much support with the local media. It's not that we want Tebow, it's that we want ANYBODY but Orton.

Diehard · 10-02-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jCut

Didn't watch the game, but I did see the pick-six Orton threw to Woodson (really dumb decision). I really don't see why Orton gets so much support with the local media. It's not that we want Tebow, it's that we want ANYBODY but Orton.

The pick 6 was pretty much the end. We gave the illusion of being an interesting opponent until that happened, then GB jumped on us.

We weren't going to win that game in any case, but Orton just flushing it away with a brutal unforced error like that isn't what this teams needs.

It seems like the local media is in cahoots with the team in terms of spinning the issue. It doesn't really matter because the fanbase already sees through this thin charade, which apparently bothers the team because Fox was quite spiteful in his postgame comments. Not the smartest move on his part... pissing off the fans usually isn't a recipe for success when you're the coach of a struggling team.

jCut · 10-02-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diehard

It seems like the local media is in cahoots with the team in terms of spinning the issue. It doesn't really matter because the fanbase already sees through this thin charade, which apparently bothers the team because Fox was quite spiteful in his postgame comments. Not the smartest move on his part... pissing off the fans usually isn't a recipe for success when you're the coach of a struggling team.

Agreed. I don't like how the fans are made out to be the bad guys. And no, it's not that we love comparing every quarterback in town to John Elway. It's because we have won titles in this town and we don't accept anything but success. The quickest step to success in the midst of a rebuilding season like this, is to find out who can play and who can't. Find out which areas need to be most immediately addressed. QB is always the first priority. We know what we have in Orton. Put Tebow in. Hell, put Quinn in.

njx9 · 10-03-2011, 01:12 AM

i don't even know what the team needs anymore. our running backs are weak, but how much of that is because the o line is horrific? kyle orton's never going to do more than manage a good team to being good.

our d line is still getting pushed around, and we're 25th overall in sacks. we'd be worse (in fact, tied for 30th), but for a couple of cb blitzes. how much of that is because doom has been out and how much is because of coaching?

our linebackers still appear to be lost, especially in pass coverage.

our dbs are utter garbage, but at least i like some of the things rahim has done.

is it weird that our special teams might be the strongest part of the team? prater's only miss was 50+, and he's been great on kick offs (that i've seen, i can't find TB stats). colquitt's been absolutely fantastic from what i've seen (4th in net, averaging all of 3 yards per return). sure, our wideouts have looked good, but i'm guessing we'd be getting blown out far more if we were still giving up punt returns and kick returns like we used to.

bleh. i'm starting to think that thinking this was a 3-year or so rebuilding project was wildly optimistic. if i had to guess, we've become the bills of the last decade.

Punisher · 10-03-2011, 01:49 PM

Question for NJX or any Broncos fan. How has Von Miller looked this season? I see the stats show he's been good, but besides one game I really haven't been able to catch much Broncos action this year,

njx9 · 10-03-2011, 02:29 PM

he's felt really invisible to me. and yes, i'm saying that remembering his plays, and i still think he was a good choice (though it's a little rough seeing dareus playing so well). but then, i feel like our entire defense has been invisible most of the year.

i may change that answer later this week with some perspective.

jCut · 10-03-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

i don't even know what the team needs anymore. our running backs are weak, but how much of that is because the o line is horrific? kyle orton's never going to do more than manage a good team to being good.

our d line is still getting pushed around, and we're 25th overall in sacks. we'd be worse (in fact, tied for 30th), but for a couple of cb blitzes. how much of that is because doom has been out and how much is because of coaching?

our linebackers still appear to be lost, especially in pass coverage.

our dbs are utter garbage, but at least i like some of the things rahim has done.

is it weird that our special teams might be the strongest part of the team? prater's only miss was 50+, and he's been great on kick offs (that i've seen, i can't find TB stats). colquitt's been absolutely fantastic from what i've seen (4th in net, averaging all of 3 yards per return). sure, our wideouts have looked good, but i'm guessing we'd be getting blown out far more if we were still giving up punt returns and kick returns like we used to.

bleh. i'm starting to think that thinking this was a 3-year or so rebuilding project was wildly optimistic. if i had to guess, we've become the bills of the last decade.

I think you gotta get your franchise signal-caller and then build from the trenches out. That's always the blueprint for success. A good o-line will make your offense look better and a good d-line will make it easier on your coverage. That doesn't mean I don't think we need a better RB or a better CB, because we do. But, address the OL and DL for ***** sake.

Diehard · 10-03-2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jCut

I think you gotta get your franchise signal-caller and then build from the trenches out. That's always the blueprint for success. A good o-line will make your offense look better and a good d-line will make it easier on your coverage. That doesn't mean I don't think we need a better RB or a better CB, because we do. But, address the OL and DL for ***** sake.

The OL actually looked good against the Packers. I was particularly surprised by how well Franklin held up against Matthews & Co. I still think some upgrades would be wise (a veteran C and competition at G or T), but we may find this unit developing nicely under Magazu as the season progresses.

The current DL is decent against the run. A pass rusher from the interior DL would be a huge boost, considering the pressure Doom and Miller are already creating on the outside.

Diehard · 10-03-2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punisher

Question for NJX or any Broncos fan. How has Von Miller looked this season? I see the stats show he's been good, but besides one game I really haven't been able to catch much Broncos action this year,

With Champ and Doom both struggling with injuries, Miller has been the best player on the defense. He still makes rookie errors, but he also makes the kind of impact plays we've been missing from the LB spot since Al Wilson left the team.

He's definitely in the running for DPOY.

cvv84 · 10-03-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diehard

The OL actually looked good against the Packers. I was particularly surprised by how well Franklin held up against Matthews & Co. I still think some upgrades would be wise (a veteran C and competition at G or T), but we may find this unit developing nicely under Magazu as the season progresses.

Our pass rush has been ka-putz this season :(

njx9 · 10-03-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diehard

The OL actually looked good against the Packers. I was particularly surprised by how well Franklin held up against Matthews & Co. I still think some upgrades would be wise (a veteran C and competition at G or T), but we may find this unit developing nicely under Magazu as the season progresses.

The current DL is decent against the run. A pass rusher from the interior DL would be a huge boost, considering the pressure Doom and Miller are already creating on the outside.

ok, so you sort of disagreed with most of what i said. and although it probably sounds snotty and antagonistic, i mean it honestly: why do you suppose we got worked up and down the field by the packers? certainly there's a talent gulf, but no nfl team should basically get paraded up and down the field on defense.

HEISMANHERSCHEL · 10-04-2011, 04:52 AM

I am not a troll...I am just curious.

Is there a reason Tebow is not playing at all? I don't get a chance to see the Broncos much. I am not claiming to know what is going on with the Broncos.

I was not a huge fan of Tebow as a prospect during draft time. I am not a Tebow guy by any means. But at some point don't you have to give the guy a chance? I am really not trying to start anything-I am just wondering if he has been THAT bad that he can't be given a chance.

If he fails-okay. Then you can put him to bed. But what is the point of not giving him a chance? If you can't trade him now, why not give him some time?

Once again-I am not trying to pour gas on the fire. I am just wondering if there is anyone that has an answer to this? I think everyone wants to see the guy play.

jCut · 10-04-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEISMANHERSCHEL

I am not a troll...I am just curious.

Is there a reason Tebow is not playing at all? I don't get a chance to see the Broncos much. I am not claiming to know what is going on with the Broncos.

I was not a huge fan of Tebow as a prospect during draft time. I am not a Tebow guy by any means. But at some point don't you have to give the guy a chance? I am really not trying to start anything-I am just wondering if he has been THAT bad that he can't be given a chance.

If he fails-okay. Then you can put him to bed. But what is the point of not giving him a chance? If you can't trade him now, why not give him some time?

Once again-I am not trying to pour gas on the fire. I am just wondering if there is anyone that has an answer to this? I think everyone wants to see the guy play.

The coaching staff wants to stick with the veteran (Orton), because they feel he gives them the best chance to win. Obviously, Orton is the superior player in practice, but it hasn't really translated in games. After a 1-5 start they may change their mind. The thing that puzzles me, is they haven't developed a "Tebow package" yet, especially on a team that is devoid of playmakers.

Diehard · 10-05-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

ok, so you sort of disagreed with most of what i said. and although it probably sounds snotty and antagonistic, i mean it honestly: why do you suppose we got worked up and down the field by the packers? certainly there's a talent gulf, but no nfl team should basically get paraded up and down the field on defense.

Lack of interior pass rush + poor coverage.

GB receivers were getting off the line clean far too often and just streaking downfield. Our guys looked confused in zone and even with a decent outside pass rush, Rodgers was able to make easy connections downfield. They also exposed Dawkins in coverage a few times (e.g. the Nelson TD)... he just can't play that role anymore and even using him as a situational guy is dangerous since GB is willing to pass deep regardless of down.

We ran the ball pretty well. Orton got the protection he needed. In terms of what went wrong on offense, it was the turnovers by Orton and Fells that killed any chance of a good showing.

Diehard · 10-05-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jCut

The coaching staff wants to stick with the veteran (Orton), because they feel he gives them the best chance to win. Obviously, Orton is the superior player in practice, but it hasn't really translated in games. After a 1-5 start they may change their mind. The thing that puzzles me, is they haven't developed a "Tebow package" yet, especially on a team that is devoid of playmakers.

There is a battle of wills at some level on this particular issue. Just look at Fox's postgame comments - he's dangerously close to getting into a direct conflict with the fans on the QB issue.

Whatever the team's "plan" is, it apparently didn't include letting Tebow see the field much this year. However, that plan has been totally compromised by the poor play of Orton. The team is getting forced in a direction they didn't want to go, which in general tends to bring out the worst in people... particularly people who are in decision-making positions.

It's an interesting and totally unnecessary drama for the team and the media (local and national) seem quite happy to jump on it as well. We'll have to see what happens over the next few weeks...

jCut · 10-09-2011, 10:55 PM

Well, that puts an end to the Orton/Tebow dilemma.

njx9 · 10-09-2011, 11:27 PM

i guess... tebow will probably have to eventually complete a pass that doesn't involve a circus catch by lloyd to keep playing. interesting, though, how much harder the team seemed to play as soon as he came in.

also, i take back everything negative i said about the mcgahee signing.