Denver Broncos Discussion - Page 22

03-07-2007, 04:54 PM

NJX, you sound angry.

I never said Okoye and Branch won't beat out Veal and Wilkinson... they would, but so will any DT taken in the second or third round!

However, Lang and Ekuban are garbage. I never recall them putting a OT on his @$$ or speed rushing around the edge and getting to the QB before he can get to his third step. Maybe half of those lofty sack totals (1 every other game) is a coverage sack? Where Champ and Darrent had things locked down and it allowed Lang or Ekuban the 5 seconds they needed to tire an OT out with their patty cake games.
They are garbage!

And after the top three DE's most are garbage as well. That is why I say you take an Blue Chip DE early and not DT.

Drafting an "A" - DE in the first and a "B" - DT in the second makes a hell of a lot more sense to me then an "A"- DT in the first and a "C" - DE in the second.

Carriker and Tyler doesn't sound better then Okoye and Spencer?

njx9 · 03-07-2007, 05:15 PM

no, they don't, not when DT is by far the bigger need. the fact that my dog could play DT on this team should be demonstration enough. we need a great player at the position, not a barely above average one, and moreso because we already have a great edge rusher. i don't see any point in drafting another guy to play on 3rd downs (as our DEs are currently very good against the run, they just need to get inside support against the pass).

Diehard · 03-07-2007, 10:16 PM

double post...

Diehard · 03-07-2007, 10:22 PM

If we keep our picks, there's no way in hell Tyler's going to be around for us to pick in the second round... he's out of the picture unless we take him at 21.

I agree with njx9, interior pass rush is the missing piece of the puzzle. Mind you, Carriker could provide that as he's big/strong enough to the DT spot on passing downs.

If I was Shanny, I'd go DT (or in Carriker's case, DT/DE) with my first two picks... a pair of young bulls to anchor the line for the next decade. Also lets the team dump Veal & Burton, which can only be a good thing.

diabsoule · 03-07-2007, 10:53 PM

Don't know if this has been reported yet or not but:

QB Patrick Ramsey signed with the Broncos.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2791258

njx9 · 03-07-2007, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diehard

If we keep our picks, there's no way in hell Tyler's going to be around for us to pick in the second round... he's out of the picture unless we take him at 21.

I agree with njx9, interior pass rush is the missing piece of the puzzle. Mind you, Carriker could provide that as he's big/strong enough to the DT spot on passing downs.

If I was Shanny, I'd go DT (or in Carriker's case, DT/DE) with my first two picks... a pair of young bulls to anchor the line for the next decade. Also lets the team dump Veal & Burton, which can only be a good thing.

you must spread some reputation around before giving it to diehard again.

absolutely. i don't mean to rail against carriker personally, as i think with some work he could absolutely fill the DT role and potentially be a part of the DE rotation, as much as i'd rail against the choice simply to have another DE who won't be able to produce properly.

03-08-2007, 09:52 AM

Well then that's just it, we disagree with our biggest need is.

I will give Warren the benefit of the doubt that last year was really because of his toes and he can perform again this year like 2005. I believe we can find a very serviceable DT to pair with him in the second round and be solid at DT.

Where you think our huge group of DE's are serviceable, and I think they are garbage!

Clearly our DL is the biggest need all together, but I feel with Warren in the middle DT is a D- and DE's are an F.

njx9 · 03-08-2007, 01:34 PM

yeah, demetrin veal is a much better option than kenard lang. michael myers was far better at pressuring the quarterback than elvis dumervil. i don't get the logic at all and you haven't said anything other than "it's my opinion" to back that up. that's fine if that's all it is, but i believe i originally wanted to know WHY people think our DEs need so much more work.

mattrob · 03-08-2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

yeah, demetrin veal is a much better option than kenard lang. michael myers was far better at pressuring the quarterback than elvis dumervil. i don't get the logic at all and you haven't said anything other than "it's my opinion" to back that up. that's fine if that's all it is, but i believe i originally wanted to know WHY people think our DEs need so much more work.

I can't speak for A4Qxxx, but to me it just comes down to the talent available. I don't like Branch at all as a prospect. He's big, but i just didn't see anything that impressed me when I watched him, though I'll admit that wasn't often. Okoye would be fine, but I'm not sure he really fits what Denver's trying to do under Bates. Anderson and Adams both seem to be potential difference-makers at DE and we could still get someone like Tank Tyler (who I think will be as effective a pro as Branch) or Marcus Thomas later in the draft.

njx9 · 03-08-2007, 07:21 PM

fair enough. i tend to disagree (obviously) for similar reasons. i don't see our DEs as having been the problem. meanwhile, at no point have our DTs produced (even when he was healthy, warren wasn't much more than a big guy in the middle with no effect whatsoever on the pass rush).

i also see absolutely nothing in tyler that makes me think he's at the same level as branch or okoye (although again, a troop of girl scouts would likely make our DTs better at this point) and i certainly don't see it in a character failure like thomas. there are a few second tier guys who intrigue me (mcbean), but we need a stud at the spot, not another role player.

so i can agree to disagree with anyone who thinks that branch and okoye are NOT potential studs (though i'm still curious why), but i absolutely can't agree with anyone who thinks DE is the bigger need.

Jimmy · 03-08-2007, 09:26 PM

i heard the broncos are looking at antonio bryant... thoughts?

the way i see it, as long as he doesnt make any more than 2.5 a year, its cool

Jimmy · 03-08-2007, 09:32 PM

mind you from a very unreliable source

njx9 · 03-08-2007, 09:42 PM

if he makes more than 1 a year i'll be annoyed. i just don't see him significantly improving the team in any way.

Jimmy · 03-08-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

if he makes more than 1 a year i'll be annoyed. i just don't see him significantly improving the team in any way.

you know, i am pretty sure you already know, but the words patrick ramsey and 2.5 dont belong in the same sentence.

i think thats worse then giving bryant that type of money.

Jimmy · 03-08-2007, 10:35 PM

still, neither should make that much...

njx9 · 03-08-2007, 10:59 PM

i think it's hideous, but we at least desperately needed a back-up QB. we don't desperately need a #3/#4 receiver (i'm assuming marshall keeps impressing and smith backs him up and plays 3rd down receiver).

elway777 · 03-08-2007, 11:31 PM

I bet the contract for Bryant will look insane, adding in his charachter and consistency concerns I would pass.

Jimmy · 03-10-2007, 06:44 AM

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_5390616

Welp... Wilkinson might play Snake and retire. W/e dont really want him

and oh yeah Bates likes tall DE's playing, so expect elvis dumervil to get LOADS of time

elway777 · 03-10-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_5390616

Welp... Wilkinson might play Snake and retire. W/e dont really want him

and oh yeah Bates likes tall DE's playing, so expect elvis dumervil to get LOADS of time

Nice way to waste a 6th rounder. ha

Jimmy · 03-10-2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elway777

Nice way to waste a 6th rounder. ha

o we wuld get the pick back

elway777 · 03-10-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy

o we wuld get the pick back

Alright guess I should of read the article.

mattrob · 03-11-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

fair enough. i tend to disagree (obviously) for similar reasons. i don't see our DEs as having been the problem. meanwhile, at no point have our DTs produced (even when he was healthy, warren wasn't much more than a big guy in the middle with no effect whatsoever on the pass rush).

i also see absolutely nothing in tyler that makes me think he's at the same level as branch or okoye (although again, a troop of girl scouts would likely make our DTs better at this point) and i certainly don't see it in a character failure like thomas. there are a few second tier guys who intrigue me (mcbean), but we need a stud at the spot, not another role player.

so i can agree to disagree with anyone who thinks that branch and okoye are NOT potential studs (though i'm still curious why), but i absolutely can't agree with anyone who thinks DE is the bigger need.

I'm not saying Okoye isn't going to be a very good pro, but he would excel in a scheme using quicker, attacking DT's. Bates prefers bigger DT's who will tie up the interior lineman and I just don't see that as a strength of Okoye. He could thrive elsewhere, though. As for Branch, I didn't watch a lot of him this past season, but what I did see didn't impress me. In the OSU game in particular, he spent a lot of time on the ground and didn't get much push. At 21, he's a nice pickup. In the top-10, I think he's a huge risk.

njx9 · 03-12-2007, 09:36 AM

maybe my problem then is in not seeing bates scheme yet. but in all honesty, i haven't noticed a huge amount of difference in the last three DC's schemes (at least, in terms of our ability to pressure the QB ever), so I'm not sure there will be one now. and in pretty much all of the last three, the biggest problem has been our utter lack of anything with any vague measure of talent at DT (well, that and letting go of talented DEs).

if we draft a DE, i'll still be ecstatic that we're actually addressing the defensive line.

M · 03-12-2007, 02:43 PM

Everyone has agreed on the fact that we will be taking either a DE or DT with our 1st round pick.

Shanahan seldom ever does with his first round pick, what we think he will do so, where does he go with the pick? Personally, I still think he does something unconventional like Safety (Reggie Nelson (S, FL)), or Offensive Line (Levi Brown (OT, PS)), or LB (Lawrence Timmons (LB, FSU) or Patrick Willis (LB, OlMs)) (Lynch will be gone so do not expect a RB) if any of these players fall to us. Do not put him trading down either if the option presents itself.

I am just saying, now that you are all sleeping well at night thinking Shanahan will take a DL, think again.

mattrob · 03-12-2007, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

maybe my problem then is in not seeing bates scheme yet. but in all honesty, i haven't noticed a huge amount of difference in the last three DC's schemes (at least, in terms of our ability to pressure the QB ever), so I'm not sure there will be one now. and in pretty much all of the last three, the biggest problem has been our utter lack of anything with any vague measure of talent at DT (well, that and letting go of talented DEs).

if we draft a DE, i'll still be ecstatic that we're actually addressing the defensive line.

And I'd be happy picking up a DT early as well. It's past time we addressed the D-Line and I think we'll get 2 on Day One this year, hopefully they turn into something. Also, I read on another board we're bringing in Ian Scott for a visit. He's not the massive run-stuffer I'd like, but he's young and would fit nicely in a rotation.