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Old 01-27-2011, 05:51 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
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Originally Posted by Timbathia View Post
Gee it would be nice to have someone who could rush the passer besides Doom.

Trivia question - who is the only Bronco (besides Doom) to have more than 5.5 sacks in a season since 2004 (when Reggie Hayward had 10.5)?
Bertrand Berry?
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:54 PM    (permalink
Timbathia
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Bertrand Berry?
No, his 11.5 sacks in 2003 earned him a ticket straight out of Denver.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:08 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
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No, his 11.5 sacks in 2003 earned him a ticket straight out of Denver.
Dang. I knew he was around there, missed him by a year I guess.

It couldn't be that you just read the career total by mistake instead of a season and you mean Jarvis Moss, right? No, because he has 3.5. Wow. Just realized how unbelievably pathetic that is. I'm stumped. Trevor Pryce? Just checked and nope. Damn.
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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(A) Bowers wouldn't be playing behind Ayers if he was selected at #2 overall. I'm sort of baffled by comments like this. What has Ayers ever proved for this team on the field so far? Do you think when the staff is evaluating the players, he is listed as an irreplaceable starter? Get real.

(B) Dareus might not be worth it at #2, but if we needed a tackle on the inside, he fills the void. He played through the whole year with an injury and did quite well, and when he was healthy again he dominated.

(C) Xanders has already said we are going to take the BPA at a position of need. My guess is that it is going to be a front seven player. I would be absolutely fine with Peterson, but if Fairley goes #1, Denver is probably going to do their best to trade down or select one of the higher rated DL playrs before the run on top tier DL starts.
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:42 PM    (permalink
Timbathia
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Dang. I knew he was around there, missed him by a year I guess.

It couldn't be that you just read the career total by mistake instead of a season and you mean Jarvis Moss, right? No, because he has 3.5. Wow. Just realized how unbelievably pathetic that is. I'm stumped. Trevor Pryce? Just checked and nope. Damn.
Actually the career totals would be interesting over that period (and by interesting I mean pathetic). The guy I am asking about may actually have the second highest number of sacks by a Bronco over the past 7 years.

It really highlights how pathetic we have been at rushing the passer for the past 7 years. Everyone in the other forums keeps spouting off about how Doom will be no good to us when we go back to the 4-3, but truth be told when playing in a 4-3 he is light years ahead of anyone else we have had since the days of Pryce and Berry.
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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Elvis was able to produce with nobody around him in a 4-3. He probably won't do as well as he did in the 3-4, but whatever.
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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Actually the career totals would be interesting over that period (and by interesting I mean pathetic). The guy I am asking about may actually have the second highest number of sacks by a Bronco over the past 7 years.

It really highlights how pathetic we have been at rushing the passer for the past 7 years. Everyone in the other forums keeps spouting off about how Doom will be no good to us when we go back to the 4-3, but truth be told when playing in a 4-3 he is light years ahead of anyone else we have had since the days of Pryce and Berry.
Ebenezer Ekuban!
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:27 PM    (permalink
Timbathia
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Elvis was able to produce with nobody around him in a 4-3. He probably won't do as well as he did in the 3-4, but whatever.
17 sacks is pretty much out of the question, but 10 to 12 is certainly realistic.
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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Ebenezer Ekuban!
Nice! Who would have thought a Brownco would be our second best pass rusher over the past 7 years.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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the alternate answer was kenard lang, fwiw.



ayers was a 43 end when he came out, it was only due to mcdaniels idiocy that he had to play out of position. given that he was relatively highly rated, i have to imagine they want to give him a chance.

to be fair, this is partially based on my being unimpressed with bowers. at 6-10? i think he'd be a good pick. i'd think the same about dareus. but pretty much every DL this year just screams massive bust to me. fairley is an idiot on the field, as disruptive as he is. i think dareus is lazy. meh.

i think, in all likelihood, i'm completely wrong when it comes to draft day. but all of those players make me really nervous at 2.
Good call - forgot about Lang. I suppose it doesnt change the basic premise in that we are ******* hopeless at sacking people.

As long as we can get a legit DLine starter at the start of the second, I have no issue with Peterson at #2. Add in a legit LB starter with the Dolphins pick in the mid second, and we are in much better shape. I suppose the main unknown is how aggressive Fox will be in FA, as that could shape the draft more than anything.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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I think it makes a lot of sense to play Bowers + Ayers every down and use Doom as a situational pass rusher. Kick Bowers in on that play.
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Old 01-28-2011, 01:21 AM    (permalink
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ayers was a 43 end when he came out, it was only due to mcdaniels idiocy that he had to play out of position. given that he was relatively highly rated, i have to imagine they want to give him a chance.
He was rated as a player who had that versatility to play in either scheme, and we just so happened to run a 34. His transition came with some growing pains. Could he start at LDE for us and be successful? Quite possibly. I think he will more than likely get that opportunity. Can he be upgraded over? Absolutely.

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to be fair, this is partially based on my being unimpressed with bowers. at 6-10? i think he'd be a good pick. i'd think the same about dareus. but pretty much every DL this year just screams massive bust to me. fairley is an idiot on the field, as disruptive as he is. i think dareus is lazy. meh.
The conundrum in all of this is that Denver fans have pined for DL over the past five drafts and haven't gotten their wish, yet when they are in the chance to take several premium players at the position, fans start getting overly critical about them because we are selecting so high.

The pressure is on, no doubt, to get a quality player at the #2 selection. Where we select the player in my eyes is irrelevant, they just have to pan out. Moving down and acquiring more picks doesn't lessen the risk of who we take, wherever it is in the top ten. It just helps compensate for the potential bust ratio of that prospect.

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i think, in all likelihood, i'm completely wrong when it comes to draft day. but all of those players make me really nervous at 2.
Everyone makes me nervous at #2 to be quite honest, and hopefully we can sucker a trade down and still land Bowers, Dareus or Peterson thereafter. (I'm guessing Fairley goes #1)

In all honesty, I would not be surprised if Peterson ends up being the pick. The Broncos might be confident enough in some of that DL talent being there in round two and could wait until then, but hopefully they don't.

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I think it makes a lot of sense to play Bowers + Ayers every down and use Doom as a situational pass rusher. Kick Bowers in on that play.
Dumervil is not going to be a situational player for us with the contract he signed. If we are able to get a quality DT inside, it is going to help him out tremendously.

If Bowers was drafted, I would start him at LDE and have Dumervil at RDE. Ayers could kick it in on passing downs. I think that makes the most sense, especially for the type of defense Fox has been known to run.

All and all, the Broncos would have to be ******** to **** this pick up.
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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I like the staff Fox put together.

I reiterate my jealousy of your coaching staff.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Best player should play
Doom is a great pass rusher, we know this. But he has never been good against the run. Ayers + Bowers are two everydown DE. Personally if Doom gets 12-15 sacks this year (not that hard to imagine even if he is a situational pass rusher) then he is playing his contract for me.
We simply cannot play a guy simply because of his contract if he is going to hurt us on the run game.
Maybe Fox fixes him up, but until Doom can stop the run as a 4-3 DE, he is not going to be a very good DE.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Best player should play
Doom is a great pass rusher, we know this. But he has never been good against the run. Ayers + Bowers are two everydown DE. Personally if Doom gets 12-15 sacks this year (not that hard to imagine even if he is a situational pass rusher) then he is playing his contract for me.
We simply cannot play a guy simply because of his contract if he is going to hurt us on the run game.
Maybe Fox fixes him up, but until Doom can stop the run as a 4-3 DE, he is not going to be a very good DE.
Teams were still running to Dumervil's side as a 3-4 OLB and doing it with success. Upgrade the interior of our defensive line and that will help alleviate the problem.
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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Teams were still running to Dumervil's side as a 3-4 OLB and doing it with success. Upgrade the interior of our defensive line and that will help alleviate the problem.
It didnt help that Doom had Kenny Peterson as the DE on his side. If Doom is the only weak link in the run game we will be fine.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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I think we'll be fine but he would be a good pickup (Bowers).
I'm a huge fan of Dareus right now too..much better pick than Peterson IMO.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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pipedream: can we please, please move DJ back to WLB?
I would say that is likely. I would expect for us to draft or sign a MLB.
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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i'm starting to lean towards taking martez wilson in the second if he's there. greg jones had a disappointing senior bowl week and he's looking more like a mid-round type of guy, same goes for quan sturdivant. there's some good potential free agents, but i doubt any of them actually hit free agency.
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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i'm starting to lean towards taking martez wilson in the second if he's there. greg jones had a disappointing senior bowl week and he's looking more like a mid-round type of guy, same goes for quan sturdivant. there's some good potential free agents, but i doubt any of them actually hit free agency.
In some ways our biggest problem is going to be our LBs next season with our current roster. Ayers, Bannan, Thomas and Doom actually makes me much, much more comfortable than DJ, Mays and Haggan (who all look on paper like our starting 4-3 front 7). Mays and Haggan are huge liabilities in coverage, and it sounds like we will play a lot of cover-2, cover-3, zone stuff next season.
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:03 PM    (permalink
Namy
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As long as the Broncos are committed to defense, I would be surprised if the Broncos mess up this draft (at least for the first two rounds).

If we go for either Bowers/Dareus with our first pick (assuming Fairley goes #1 overall), we can always grab a solid CB in round 2 like Aaron Williams or even CU's Jimmy Smith.

If we go for Peterson with our first pick, then we can still possibly grab a solid DE/DL prospect such as Cameron Hayward, Allen Bailey, Cory Liuget with our next pick.

I'd be content with either scenario. With that said, trading down our #2 pick for a few spots down would be ideal.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:03 PM    (permalink
Diehard
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If were are looking for someone inside whose coverage responsibilities would be limited to short zones, Kelvin Sheppard from LSU looked like quite a thumper at the Senior Bowl. He's got the natural leadership you like to see from a MLB.

There are actually quite a few nice 4-3 LB prospects who will probably make it out of rounds 1-2. Trading down at some point to get an extra 3rd or 4th would be a wise idea, IMO.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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I would love to get a guy like Mason Foster in the second round. I think he could be a starting ILB in John Fox's defense, similar to Beason. Not the biggest guy, but quick and instinctive.
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:46 PM    (permalink
Diehard
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I would love to get a guy like Mason Foster in the second round. I think he could be a starting ILB in John Fox's defense, similar to Beason. Not the biggest guy, but quick and instinctive.
I think he could play any of the 4-3 LB spots. He's one that should be on our radar.
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Honestly I wouldn't be sad if our draft looked something like..
Dareus/Austin/Foster/Shepperd
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