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Old 01-09-2007, 12:51 PM    (permalink
BengalsPwn
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Now all we got to do is can our OC and DC and we will be set for next year. Hopefully we take a great pass rushing DE in the first. There is a reason our corners look bad, its bc we get 0 pressure on the QB unless we blitz w/ our whole front 7. Moses or by some miracle Gaines is still there they should be the pick. In the second if Olsen or Griffin is there I would take one of them. CB is not our biggest weakness. We have JJ and Deltha w/ Keiwan as the nickel. I think SS and DE is the most important issues w/ TE there if the value is right.
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Old 01-09-2007, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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While the pass rush wasn't great it wasn't the reason our pass D was so bad. We were middle of the road in sacks (16th) and Justin Smith was top 15 in getting pressure on the QB (hurries/sacks).

Tory James is gone, Deltha is back to being average... We must address CB, if Moses/Anderson aren't there then Revis/McCauley should be the pick.


About the assistants... You'd have to think with Jackson getting the OC job at ATL that Bratkowski will stay, while he isn't the best he isn't nearly as bad as Breshnahan. Breshnahan MUST be fired, he cost us several games himself. The Colts game was strictly on him, the players executed but they were executing a terrible game play and he didn't make the proper adjustments within the game.
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Old 01-10-2007, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Good we signed Geather to an extension before he became too expensive for us to pay him.
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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Agreed. He is a stud in the making, I was a basher of him before this year but he has impressed me vs. the run and vs. the pass.

More sacks and TFL's than Justin Smith.... AND he's 4 years younger. That tells you who we should've re-signed...

I hope we pay all 33 mil, that means he's a beast and reached all of his incentives.
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Old 01-12-2007, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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This would be my dream starting defense for next season:

RCB-D. O'neal
LCB-J. Joseph
FS-M. Williams
SS-D. Jackson
WLB-A. Nicholson
MLB-O. Thurman
SLB-A. Brooks
RDE-D. Pollack
NT-D. Peko
UT-S.Smith
LDE-R. Geathers
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Old 01-12-2007, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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Nice. That's being optimistic though, we know Pollack/Odell probably won't start the first several games for sure so to be real we should probably scratch them out.

Mine (Including draft picks)

CB - Fred Bennett (eventually replacing Deltha)
CB - Johnathan Joseph
S - Dexter Jackson
S - Madieu Williams
WLB - Landon Johnson
MLB - Ahmad Brooks
SLB - Rashad Jeanty (I really like what I see from Jeanty)
LE - Robert Geathers
DT - Domata Peko
DT - Shaun Smith/Sam Adams rotation (I like what I see from Smith)
RE - Quentin Moses

Then we can hope Pollack/Odell become key pieces later in the season, but I doubt it. There will be some interesting players to watch. I want to see what kind of impact Nicholson, Geathers, Brooks and the new RE will have next year.

Joseph/Peko/Geathers will continue to mature, hopefully Shaun Smith sees a lot more PT. I don't expect much from Pollack/Odell.

Caleb is also a VERY solid backup.
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Old 01-14-2007, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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Anyone have any bets on our record next year?

I'm going with 13-3.

AFC East (3-1), NFC West (4-0), Division (4-2), Titans/Chiefs (2-0).

Keeping in mind I thought we'd go 10-6 this year even before the injuries and figured we'd get in as a wildcard so I'm not a blind homer when it comes to picking how we'll finish.
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Old 01-14-2007, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Fill me in on Eric Steinbach; first of which will he be resigned?
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Old 01-14-2007, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Fill me in on Eric Steinbach; first of which will he be resigned?
No.

He's a very athletic LG and he is going to cash in big somewhere, he does his best work out in space.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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Whitworth is better at Guard and should fill in nicely for Steinbach, but the major loss is the O-line Depth which aside from Stacy Andrews and Ben Wilkerson looks very thin. I could see the Bengals drafting a tackle/guard in the 4th/5th round....
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deyebc
Whitworth is better at Guard and should fill in nicely for Steinbach, but the major loss is the O-line Depth which aside from Stacy Andrews and Ben Wilkerson looks very thin. I could see the Bengals drafting a tackle/guard in the 4th/5th round....
Agreed. I fully expect a OT/OG type guy round 4 or 5, we take a hit to depth via Whitworth and Ghiaciuc moving into starting spots.

I'm pleased with Andrews at RG, it appears that project may be paying off. Then we have Wilkerson at C but no real tackle backups (not sure if anything will come of Kooistra). The good thing is in the event Willie/Levi get hurt Whitworth can slide in then one of our backups can play guard.

The more I look at it the more I think that if Patrick Willis falls back to us he will be the pick. Then Ahmad would be moved outside and Willis would be our MLB, he can rush the passer and stop the run... We could use that for sure and we know how much Marvin is in love with LB's. With that said I doubt he falls to us anyway just something I considered.

At this point Moses is looking like the most likely pick.
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Old 01-15-2007, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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Why would we take a LB? Even w/o Odell coming back we could use Brooks at MLB or AJ. Lets not forget that AJ was a shining star at rookie camp until he got hurt. I wouldnt be surprised if he broke into the starting rotation this season. He could play all LB spots too. He played WLB at FSU so he is fast enough and he is big enough to play SLB. He practiced at MLB during rookie camp so watch out for him there too. We got depth with Landon and Caleb. So LB wont be too big of a draft day need. Unless a big time LB prospect falls far into day 2 I dont believe we even draft a single one.
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Old 01-15-2007, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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Think though how set we were last year when Marvin picked Ahmad...

I'm not saying it should be done, I'm just saying I wouldn't doubt it. Marvin was also in love with Thomas Howard and it was rumored he'd be our first rounder last year. Kendrell Bell/Lavar Arrington/Ed Hartwell/Jamie Sharper... The list goes on and on of LB's we've tried for when LB was a position of less need than others. If he see's a can't miss talent that is BPA (especially at LB) I wouldn't doubt him selecting that player.

As I said though, I fully expect Moses round one with a DB round 2. Then round 4/5 we address TE/OL and KR/PR round 6 or 7 then maybe a DT or something nifty in the remaining round.
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Old 01-16-2007, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmerToCJ
Think though how set we were last year when Marvin picked Ahmad...

I'm not saying it should be done, I'm just saying I wouldn't doubt it. Marvin was also in love with Thomas Howard and it was rumored he'd be our first rounder last year. Kendrell Bell/Lavar Arrington/Ed Hartwell/Jamie Sharper... The list goes on and on of LB's we've tried for when LB was a position of less need than others. If he see's a can't miss talent that is BPA (especially at LB) I wouldn't doubt him selecting that player.

As I said though, I fully expect Moses round one with a DB round 2. Then round 4/5 we address TE/OL and KR/PR round 6 or 7 then maybe a DT or something nifty in the remaining round.
Dont forget TAB man TAB.
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Old 01-16-2007, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Tab isn't a punt returner and even though he is jogging lightly with his reconstructed hip it is still unknown how well he'll come back....so it's not out of the question to draft a PR in the later rounds considering how bad our punt returners this year were.
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Old 01-16-2007, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Tab was practicing PR in training camp before he got hurt and was looking pretty good at it from what they said at camp. Hopefully Brazell can return punts or try Keiwan again. It would be such a waste to draft just a returner late in the draft.
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Old 01-16-2007, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
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Tab isn't a punt returner and even though he is jogging lightly with his reconstructed hip it is still unknown how well he'll come back....so it's not out of the question to draft a PR in the later rounds considering how bad our punt returners this year were.
Amen.

Tab was becoming a decent WR and coming off his injury it would be nice to get a CB or WR that is a solid KR/PR to do both duties. No doubt Tab is a solid KR but off his injury who knows... He's not a PR either, not agile or quick enough.

Keiwan is a terrible PR, he's usually towards the bottom of the league in returns (I think we were 3rd from last this year).

Remember I said round 6 or 7... You act like we're blowing a big time draft pick.



I'm tired of people giving us a DT in the draft when we have so many other bigger needs, it's just ignorance of our team really.
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Old 01-16-2007, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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I am going to start this off by saying that I am going to assume that we finish the season at 8-8 or at best 9-7. That would give us a pick between 16-22. Lets go ahead and say that we average a 19th pick. Please tell me what you think. I can take the criticism and welcome it.

Round 1. Quinn Pitcock, DT, Ohio State Sr, 6-3, 295: I feel that he is the second best DT in the draft behind Alan Branch. Quinn would fit perfect into our 4-3 base defense and could also play DE when we switch to 3-4. Sam Adams and John Thornton are unproductive and old. Pitcock and Peko in the middle would look great for years to come.

Pretty good prediction of 8-8.
We should have finished 12-5, If you don't believe me, let's take a little stroll down Washout Lane.
Remember Tampagate? The San Diego Meltdown? Denver? That final Steelers game with that traitor Santonio :).
My dad's been a Bengals fan for 20-25 years or so (I haven't even been on the planet quite that long) and he always says it's just nice to be able to be disappointed with an 8-8 finish.
Back in the mid-nineties people would have cried tears of joy at an 8-8 Cin City finish.
We know we're on the way up, so why am I hearing cries of "fire Marvin" around where I live and "Marvin's on the hotseat" by the likes of Jim Rome *cough* narcissist *cough*?

I know the discussion has shifted to O and ST, but I saw this post and couldn't pass it up.
No offense, FootballGod, but even if Pitcock is there -which somebody will probably buy into the hype and take him in the first 15- I'd absolutely hate this pick.
Pitcock is not an impact player, but he is surrounded by them (even if they don't get the credit they deserve yet) and he does not merit a 18th overall pick.
Where was Quinn when we needed him in the NC game? Playing hide-and-go-seek with the Florida O-line.


I love Pitcock and I hope he does well in the NFL, I'm also a OSU fan, but I don't think he should go nearly this high and I think if Mikey B. did take him with that pick it could potentially be another "Big Daddy"/ Klingler/ etc. type of pick. Not that Pitcock doesn't have the drive like Wilkinson didn't, but that it would be a disaster of comparable magnitude to a team clearly on a big upswing.

Now, I could be out of the loop, since I have no one offline to consistently discuss football with that researches, but I'm thinking maybe Michael Griffin with this first pick (or L. Landry if he somehow managed to fall this far.)
Not that I don't love Dexter Jackson, but I think he's going to hit the same age curve that Tory hit in the next year or two. When that happens, we need a guy who has the size and speed to come into the lineup and I'm not necessarily believing (just yet) that Kaesviharn is it.
Plus I hear that they might be trying to move Madieu over to CB which would open up the slot opposite Dexter for Griffin to step into early.
So, assuming they've lost all faith in Deltha (the way I have lost all faith in Tory) we'd end up with Madieu, Dexter, JonJo, and M. Griffin as our DBs.
I think that would be an excellent arrangement (particularly with Kaesviharn as extraordinary safety depth.)

I also would be extremely happy with either Omobi Okoye or a DeMarcus Tyler.
I know Okoye isn't supposed to fall this far, but neither was Claude Wroten last year (I think he fell to the fourth round) so who knows where a high-octane guy like Okoye could end up within the first.
DeMarcus could also fall to the second because there are so many playmakers on the board that other teams would probably take first; in which case, I would consider it a "steal" if the Bengals nabbed him there.
Forgive me if I don't exude much confidence in Sam Adams, but I saw teams running straight at him last year and winning those battles on a consistent basis. Injured or not, Big Sam didn't play like a former pro-bowler too much last year.
Age has a funny way of dealing with football, two years ago Tory was a pro-bowler and now the consensus is that he's done -I believe that consensus- and I think Sam might have hit the same point last year (I could be completely mistaken.)

Another thing I don't understand, why does everyone hate Frostee Rucker so vehemetly? I know he wasn't supposed to go until the seventh round last year, but obviously something changed in the weeks leading up to the draft. Just because the "experts" said he wasn't worthy of a pick earlier than the seventh round doesn't mean the teams agreed with those experts.
Anyone remember Brodrick Bunkley last year? He was supposed to go in the late first or second by almost all of the accounts that I saw. I think he ended up at 11th overall. I already mentioned Claude Wroten from last year. Almost every draft analysis book I read had him written off by the second easily, he ended up in the fourth or so.
So why is it so shocking to see a high-motor guy from an elite college program that was in the National Championship the year before jump up the board?
I may be the only guy here who will say this, but so far I can't disagree with the Frostee pick (outside of the spousal battery -only bastards, pardon my French, do that.)
He hasn't even touched the field in a regular season game yet. So can we cut him and Marvin a little slack?
Maybe this is the wrong crowd for slack.

Another interest of mine is whether or not Odell will be back next year.
Bengals.com is expectedly tight-lipped about him, so does anyone here know what the consensus is?
Don't forget this man was mini-RayLew last year, and he was a steal (talent-wise) in the second. I'm all for seeing him back next year -especially after giving Chris Henry a second, third, fourth, fifth, and nineteenth chance at returning- but I would like to know the general thoughts and your ideas about whether or not he even SHOULD come back.

Sincerely,
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Apprentice
Quote:
Originally Posted by FootballGod
I am going to start this off by saying that I am going to assume that we finish the season at 8-8 or at best 9-7. That would give us a pick between 16-22. Lets go ahead and say that we average a 19th pick. Please tell me what you think. I can take the criticism and welcome it.

Round 1. Quinn Pitcock, DT, Ohio State Sr, 6-3, 295: I feel that he is the second best DT in the draft behind Alan Branch. Quinn would fit perfect into our 4-3 base defense and could also play DE when we switch to 3-4. Sam Adams and John Thornton are unproductive and old. Pitcock and Peko in the middle would look great for years to come.

Pretty good prediction of 8-8.
We should have finished 12-5, If you don't believe me, let's take a little stroll down Washout Lane.
Remember Tampagate? The San Diego Meltdown? Denver? That final Steelers game with that traitor Santonio :).
My dad's been a Bengals fan for 20-25 years or so (I haven't even been on the planet quite that long) and he always says it's just nice to be able to be disappointed with an 8-8 finish.
Back in the mid-nineties people would have cried tears of joy at an 8-8 Cin City finish.
We know we're on the way up, so why am I hearing cries of "fire Marvin" around where I live and "Marvin's on the hotseat" by the likes of Jim Rome *cough* narcissist *cough*?

I know the discussion has shifted to O and ST, but I saw this post and couldn't pass it up.
No offense, FootballGod, but even if Pitcock is there -which somebody will probably buy into the hype and take him in the first 15- I'd absolutely hate this pick.
Pitcock is not an impact player, but he is surrounded by them (even if they don't get the credit they deserve yet) and he does not merit a 18th overall pick.
Where was Quinn when we needed him in the NC game? Playing hide-and-go-seek with the Florida O-line.


I love Pitcock and I hope he does well in the NFL, I'm also a OSU fan, but I don't think he should go nearly this high and I think if Mikey B. did take him with that pick it could potentially be another "Big Daddy"/ Klingler/ etc. type of pick. Not that Pitcock doesn't have the drive like Wilkinson didn't, but that it would be a disaster of comparable magnitude to a team clearly on a big upswing.

Now, I could be out of the loop, since I have no one offline to consistently discuss football with that researches, but I'm thinking maybe Michael Griffin with this first pick (or L. Landry if he somehow managed to fall this far.)
Not that I don't love Dexter Jackson, but I think he's going to hit the same age curve that Tory hit in the next year or two. When that happens, we need a guy who has the size and speed to come into the lineup and I'm not necessarily believing (just yet) that Kaesviharn is it.
Plus I hear that they might be trying to move Madieu over to CB which would open up the slot opposite Dexter for Griffin to step into early.
So, assuming they've lost all faith in Deltha (the way I have lost all faith in Tory) we'd end up with Madieu, Dexter, JonJo, and M. Griffin as our DBs.
I think that would be an excellent arrangement (particularly with Kaesviharn as extraordinary safety depth.)

I also would be extremely happy with either Omobi Okoye or a DeMarcus Tyler.
I know Okoye isn't supposed to fall this far, but neither was Claude Wroten last year (I think he fell to the fourth round) so who knows where a high-octane guy like Okoye could end up within the first.
DeMarcus could also fall to the second because there are so many playmakers on the board that other teams would probably take first; in which case, I would consider it a "steal" if the Bengals nabbed him there.
Forgive me if I don't exude much confidence in Sam Adams, but I saw teams running straight at him last year and winning those battles on a consistent basis. Injured or not, Big Sam didn't play like a former pro-bowler too much last year.
Age has a funny way of dealing with football, two years ago Tory was a pro-bowler and now the consensus is that he's done -I believe that consensus- and I think Sam might have hit the same point last year (I could be completely mistaken.)

Another thing I don't understand, why does everyone hate Frostee Rucker so vehemetly? I know he wasn't supposed to go until the seventh round last year, but obviously something changed in the weeks leading up to the draft. Just because the "experts" said he wasn't worthy of a pick earlier than the seventh round doesn't mean the teams agreed with those experts.Anyone remember Brodrick Bunkley last year? He was supposed to go in the late first or second by almost all of the accounts that I saw. I think he ended up at 11th overall. I already mentioned Claude Wroten from last year. Almost every draft analysis book I read had him written off by the second easily, he ended up in the fourth or so.
So why is it so shocking to see a high-motor guy from an elite college program that was in the National Championship the year before jump up the board?
I may be the only guy here who will say this, but so far I can't disagree with the Frostee pick (outside of the spousal battery -only bastards, pardon my French, do that.)
He hasn't even touched the field in a regular season game yet. So can we cut him and Marvin a little slack?
Maybe this is the wrong crowd for slack.

Another interest of mine is whether or not Odell will be back next year.
Bengals.com is expectedly tight-lipped about him, so does anyone here know what the consensus is?
Don't forget this man was mini-RayLew last year, and he was a steal (talent-wise) in the second. I'm all for seeing him back next year -especially after giving Chris Henry a second, third, fourth, fifth, and nineteenth chance at returning- but I would like to know the general thoughts and your ideas about whether or not he even SHOULD come back.

Sincerely,
DA
First off theres no way we can finish 12-5 unless your saying we would of lost in the playoffs.
Secondly, Madieu played nickel his rookie year and played well. But theres no way he could start at CB. His hips are way too stiff to play CB and thats why he is a FS.
Third, we hate Frostee bc he shouldnt of been picked there. Not only did his play on there field not merit a 3rd round pick, but he had off field issues, and is short and slow. Atleast Chris Henry had 1st round talent to go along w/ his issues. Wroten tested positive at the combine for a little thing called mary jane and thats why he fell. Also Bunkley was a late first rounder pre combine. He put up arguably the best combine results there. Also he had the stats to back up a top 15 pick.
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Old 01-17-2007, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Guys... We're not taking a DT day one... Whether you like it or not that's the way it is. Remember when we were a lock to take Travis Johnson? How'd that turn out? Peko is a starter, end of story. Shaun Smith is a good run stuffer and Sam has a year or two left in the tank so we can draft someone to develope (Peko was a pretty good pick, wouldn't you say?). Last year I kept telling everyone we wouldn't take a DT or TE day one and I kept hearing "how would you know" etc.... Just look at the past draft history for Marvin and the needs of our team and it's pretty obvious.

Reggie Kelly will be re-signed I'm sure, Tony Stewart as well... Tim Day might be groomed into the future starter and we might go without drafting a TE yet again this year.

Between CB/S/DE that will be the pick round 1, maybe Marvin falls in love with a LB but I doubt it.

Round 2 it's the same... CB/S/DE/LB. The only reason I consider LB is because Marvin is looking for that playmaker that he found in Odell, that's what made his defenses in Baltimore so great. Ahmad has that potential but you can never have too many good LB's.


I must say, I actually enjoyed the final Steelers game... It was like watching back in the day where if you won you were thrilled and if you lost you didn't really care, of course I would've cared more had I known the Broncos would've choked.

Luckily I haven't heard many calling for Marvin to be fired, that's just stupid. Ungrateful - uneducated bandwagon fans are the ones making those claims I'm sure. My only beef with Marvin is that he's too loyal (Tory James/Breshnahan) but that's not so bad.
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Old 01-17-2007, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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I had typed in that we should have been "11-5" and then I remembered the Tampa game; I just forgot to change the second number.
We should have been 12-4 regular season.

I'm not saying I think Madieu should go corner, I'm just saying that that I've heard that's what they might be planning, so if that happens I'd look for a Michael Griffin to replace him at safety.

Like I said, Frostee hasn't touched a pro football field yet, and you never know about guys until they play. I'm sure people said that Marques Colston couldn't play, too, and that's why he fell to the seventh. How many teams would have picked Colston in the second or even first if they'd known the type of season he was going to have? Frostee may be the same type of guy, and he's coming in from a program well known to produce high-quality athletes. There must be a reason we chose him there, so I think everyone is just writing him off far too quickly as a bust.
Let's see what he can do next year, then if he isn't any good I might say the same things you guys are saying now.

Yeah, I know Claude Wroten popped positive for MJ, but that doesn't usually drop you three and a half rounds. . . Point in case, Ricky Williams (not that I'm saying he tested positive before his draft, but that I'm sure it was well known that he was a pothead.)
I think Bunkley and Wroten were probably picked about where they should have been (so far) but my point is that completely unpredictable things happen on Draft Day.


No doubt, Chris Henry has proved his worth time and time again (big YAC run in the Steelers game) but what I meant was that while Chris has clearly gotten several chances already, Odell seems to have been nixed for only one or two big indescretions.
I'm guessing that for the Bengals to have Odell so deep in the doghouse means that he must have been a constant gnawing distraction or some such a thing.
I just haven't heard any new recently about his future, which is why I'm asking whether or not you guys know if he's supposed to be back, or if they're completely undecided about his future or what.

To PalmertoCJ:

I wouldn't be too sure about not taking a DT on day one; that might not be Marv's style, but you have to remember that Mike B. is the one who makes the final call.
Peko is definitely one of the big steals of last year's draft; I appreciate Peko and I hope Peko becomes a starter. I've lost most of my faith in Adams, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is his last year. I don't even have a clue as to what's happening with Thornton, and you usually don't have a shorter heavier guy like Shaun Smith come in to stop teams in the hurry-up.
So you've got Peko whenever he's not tired, and Smith for teams that don't run the hurry-up, but outside of that and maybe John Thornton, who? Bryan Robinson? Yeah, that one hasn't worked out so well.

Not that it's a lock that they'll draft a DT, but if the right guy falls to them like an Okoye or Tyler, I would be happy if they did -even in the first.

I really don't think DT is their primary need, either. I think DB is. But I don't see that many lock-down CBs on the horizon for this draft. I haven't seen Darrelle Revis play (not that he'd be there at 18 anyway according to the experts) and I don't know about any other major corners that are going to be in this draft.
Which is why I'm rooting for Michael Griffin, Okoye, or Tyler to be our first round pick (in that order.)
But, as always:
In Marvin I Trust.

I enjoyed the final Steelers game, too. I just didn't enjoy the way it ended with Graham, the OT catastrophe, and the Broncos/49ers situation working out to where we would have gotten in. We should have won that game.
I was bouncing off the walls in my house when Chris Henry made the big TD reception, though.


So what would you guys think about Michael Griffin?

EDIT: I also meant to mention that while I completely disagree with ANY loss of faith in Marvin for this year I have heard a few people around say things like "Marvin needs to win this year or he's done" and "Marvin's on the hotseat" (the latter is a Jim Rome-ism.)

With a year this chock full of injuries, legal problems, and the like; why even throw a question to MARVIN?
He can't help it that his future HOFer QB was severely injured and thusly didn't perform quite as well this year (at least some of this year.)
He can't help it that eight of his players are childish individuals who can't stay out from behind bars.
He can't help it that he lost LBs (Pollack, Thurman, Simmons), WRs (Henry, Houshmandzadeh, T. Perry, Brazell, Chatman), O-Linemen (Braham, Jones, Anderson, Williams), and DBs (Tory, Deltha, Jackson) like they were going out of style.

So why blame him for those problems?

Nevertheless I hear it from -like you said- the "Bandwagon-Hoppers" and the Jim Romes of the world.
And I resent every bit of it.

Go Marvin!

Sincerely,
DA
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Old 01-17-2007, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Too be honest I like Griffin alot but I hate his value at 18. In order to take him I think a trade down would be best maybe picking up a 3rd rounder since we dont have one. I would say 24 and up would be a nice place to draft him. But if a player like Moses, Okoye, Adams, Anderson, or Landry is at 18 we pick one of them first.
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Old 01-17-2007, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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I am going to start this off by saying that I am going to assume that we finish the season at 8-8 or at best 9-7. That would give us a pick between 16-22. Lets go ahead and say that we average a 19th pick. Please tell me what you think. I can take the criticism and welcome it.

Round 1. Quinn Pitcock, DT, Ohio State Sr, 6-3, 295: I feel that he is the second best DT in the draft behind Alan Branch. Quinn would fit perfect into our 4-3 base defense and could also play DE when we switch to 3-4. Sam Adams and John Thornton are unproductive and old. Pitcock and Peko in the middle would look great for years to come.

Pretty good prediction of 8-8.
We should have finished 12-5, If you don't believe me, let's take a little stroll down Washout Lane.
Remember Tampagate? The San Diego Meltdown? Denver? That final Steelers game with that traitor Santonio :).
My dad's been a Bengals fan for 20-25 years or so (I haven't even been on the planet quite that long) and he always says it's just nice to be able to be disappointed with an 8-8 finish.
Back in the mid-nineties people would have cried tears of joy at an 8-8 Cin City finish.
We know we're on the way up, so why am I hearing cries of "fire Marvin" around where I live and "Marvin's on the hotseat" by the likes of Jim Rome *cough* narcissist *cough*?

I know the discussion has shifted to O and ST, but I saw this post and couldn't pass it up.
No offense, FootballGod, but even if Pitcock is there -which somebody will probably buy into the hype and take him in the first 15- I'd absolutely hate this pick.
Pitcock is not an impact player, but he is surrounded by them (even if they don't get the credit they deserve yet) and he does not merit a 18th overall pick.
Where was Quinn when we needed him in the NC game? Playing hide-and-go-seek with the Florida O-line.


I love Pitcock and I hope he does well in the NFL, I'm also a OSU fan, but I don't think he should go nearly this high and I think if Mikey B. did take him with that pick it could potentially be another "Big Daddy"/ Klingler/ etc. type of pick. Not that Pitcock doesn't have the drive like Wilkinson didn't, but that it would be a disaster of comparable magnitude to a team clearly on a big upswing.

Now, I could be out of the loop, since I have no one offline to consistently discuss football with that researches, but I'm thinking maybe Michael Griffin with this first pick (or L. Landry if he somehow managed to fall this far.)
Not that I don't love Dexter Jackson, but I think he's going to hit the same age curve that Tory hit in the next year or two. When that happens, we need a guy who has the size and speed to come into the lineup and I'm not necessarily believing (just yet) that Kaesviharn is it.
Plus I hear that they might be trying to move Madieu over to CB which would open up the slot opposite Dexter for Griffin to step into early.
So, assuming they've lost all faith in Deltha (the way I have lost all faith in Tory) we'd end up with Madieu, Dexter, JonJo, and M. Griffin as our DBs.
I think that would be an excellent arrangement (particularly with Kaesviharn as extraordinary safety depth.)

I also would be extremely happy with either Omobi Okoye or a DeMarcus Tyler.
I know Okoye isn't supposed to fall this far, but neither was Claude Wroten last year (I think he fell to the fourth round) so who knows where a high-octane guy like Okoye could end up within the first.
DeMarcus could also fall to the second because there are so many playmakers on the board that other teams would probably take first; in which case, I would consider it a "steal" if the Bengals nabbed him there.
Forgive me if I don't exude much confidence in Sam Adams, but I saw teams running straight at him last year and winning those battles on a consistent basis. Injured or not, Big Sam didn't play like a former pro-bowler too much last year.
Age has a funny way of dealing with football, two years ago Tory was a pro-bowler and now the consensus is that he's done -I believe that consensus- and I think Sam might have hit the same point last year (I could be completely mistaken.)

Another thing I don't understand, why does everyone hate Frostee Rucker so vehemetly? I know he wasn't supposed to go until the seventh round last year, but obviously something changed in the weeks leading up to the draft. Just because the "experts" said he wasn't worthy of a pick earlier than the seventh round doesn't mean the teams agreed with those experts.Anyone remember Brodrick Bunkley last year? He was supposed to go in the late first or second by almost all of the accounts that I saw. I think he ended up at 11th overall. I already mentioned Claude Wroten from last year. Almost every draft analysis book I read had him written off by the second easily, he ended up in the fourth or so.
So why is it so shocking to see a high-motor guy from an elite college program that was in the National Championship the year before jump up the board?
I may be the only guy here who will say this, but so far I can't disagree with the Frostee pick (outside of the spousal battery -only bastards, pardon my French, do that.)
He hasn't even touched the field in a regular season game yet. So can we cut him and Marvin a little slack?
Maybe this is the wrong crowd for slack.

Another interest of mine is whether or not Odell will be back next year.
Bengals.com is expectedly tight-lipped about him, so does anyone here know what the consensus is?
Don't forget this man was mini-RayLew last year, and he was a steal (talent-wise) in the second. I'm all for seeing him back next year -especially after giving Chris Henry a second, third, fourth, fifth, and nineteenth chance at returning- but I would like to know the general thoughts and your ideas about whether or not he even SHOULD come back.

Sincerely,
DA
First off theres no way we can finish 12-5 unless your saying we would of lost in the playoffs.
Secondly, Madieu played nickel his rookie year and played well. But theres no way he could start at CB. His hips are way too stiff to play CB and thats why he is a FS.
Third, we hate Frostee bc he shouldnt of been picked there. Not only did his play on there field not merit a 3rd round pick, but he had off field issues, and is short and slow. Atleast Chris Henry had 1st round talent to go along w/ his issues. Wroten tested positive at the combine for a little thing called mary jane and thats why he fell. Also Bunkley was a late first rounder pre combine. He put up arguably the best combine results there. Also he had the stats to back up a top 15 pick.
I agree with everything that you said. We were not a 12-4 team at all. Madieu is a safety for the rest of his nfl life. Bunkley WAS a top 15 pick after the combine because he did put up the sickest numbers out there.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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Too be honest I like Griffin alot but I hate his value at 18. In order to take him I think a trade down would be best maybe picking up a 3rd rounder since we dont have one. I would say 24 and up would be a nice place to draft him. But if a player like Moses, Okoye, Adams, Anderson, or Landry is at 18 we pick one of them first.
I can agree with you on Griffin, the way Marvin is though he'll take a guy if he sees the potential (see Peko).

Okoye/Tyler are no where on my first round board. There will be someone there worth taking.

I see what you're saying about Shaun Smith and the hurry up, he's not an every down DT yet but Adams has some left in the tank (he's insane off the snap) and guys like Robinson/Fanene(Pass rushing threat)/Thornton are still on the team and they're adequate. We could take a DT round 4 or 5 or address it via FA. Note that 3 of our DT's were brought in during FA to be a starter (Robinson/Thornton/Adams) so Marvin seems to prefer DT's via FA or later in the draft. It's so rare to find a playmaking DT and their bust factor is so high in the early rounds. The CB/S/DE/LB route is better.

If Marvin thinks Willis is the next Ray Lewis do you actually think he'd hesitate to pick him, regardless of who we have at LB? He can put pressure on the QB and stop the run, sideline-sideline... We could move Ahmad to SLB and have Jeanty as a solid backup and just wait out Pollack. It all depends on what he does with Odell but what our defense is lacking is a playmaker. Madieu is sort of but other than that we've got nothing (KK maybe, those end zone picks were sweet ). You can't have a top 15 defense without a playmaker and that's what Marvin is looking for. Ahmad/Madieu are the only ones with that potential on our D. Joseph is solid obviously but it's hard for a good CB to make plays because they throw away from him. LB's and S's are allowed to roam (obviously).

Nelson is a possibility (I think his stock shoots at the combine and we have no shot at him). He can hit like a saftey but cover like a CB (something Marvin LOVES) and he has speed (the biggest key to Marvin on defense).

Say we re-sign Justin Smith then I think it's between Revis/McCauley/Willis/Nelson/Griffin... One of them is bound to be there.
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Old 01-17-2007, 11:36 PM    (permalink
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Mock 4.0, Comments will come next week. Sorry guys I am really busy these days. Who Dey.

Round 1. Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno St., Sr, 6-1, 205, 4.35
Round 2. Jarvis Moss, DE, Florida, Sr, 6-6, 255
Round 3. Brooks duh
Round 4. Justin Warren, ILB, Texas A&M, Sr, 6-3, 245
Round 5. Paul Soliai, DT, Utah, Sr, 6-4, 334
Round 6. Roderick Rodgers, Safety, Wisconsin, Sr, 6-2, 185, 4.45
Round 7. Brent Celek, TE, University of Cincinnati Sr, 6'4", 260
Tell me what you guys think. What would you change? Do you like the positions that were picked? Who Dey
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