New Orleans Saints Discussion - Page 64

wicket · 11-08-2008, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59

That is completely false. He has looked his best on third down and longs.

I meant more for a prolonged period. When you are behind he hasn't played his best games in my opinion.

BamaFalcon59 · 11-08-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket

I meant more for a prolonged period. When you are behind he hasn't played his best games in my opinion.

Maybe early on, against Carolina and Tampa Bay. But Chicago and Philadelphia made him pass and he did fine.

I'm pretty sure we will be able to run the ball, though.

d34ng3l021 · 11-08-2008, 01:44 PM

Yeah. I hope the Saints defense that limited AD to 32 yards doesn't come to play.

I am so excited for this game though. I see it being a shootout. Our defense has made regular QBs look like all stars. Brees is going to pick us apart for 350+ yards. I think the score will be 38-34.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan · 11-08-2008, 07:56 PM

Look, I'm not trying to discount what Atlanta's doing because they are vastly improved from last season and are a fun team to watch, BUT let's keep things in perspective here. 3 of their wins have come against Detroit, Kansas City, and Oakland... probably the three worst teams in the NFL. New Orleans has had some of the worst luck with injuries to start a season that I can remember, and I consider it a blessing that they're even sitting at .500 right now... with Drew it's been as close to a one-man team as can be possible in the NFL. I'm trying to be as unbiased as I can possibly be as a Saints homer, but I honestly believe that the Saints are still the second best team in the division behind Carolina. I might end up eating crow, but I think the Saints move up and down the field at will and win this game by 2 touchdowns. Atlanta is making the right steps and I definitely see them controlling the South in a couple of years... I just think the Saints will prove to be the better team this season. Don't let my ass-backwards logic bother you, Falcons fans. We'll see what happens on Sunday.

CJSchneider · 11-08-2008, 08:06 PM

I'm actually curious to know where my fellow Saints fan reside. If you aren't from Louisiana, by all means, don't feel as if I'm excluding you here; post where you are from as well.

As for me, I live in Bossier City. It is just West of Shreveport up in the North-West corner of the state.

d34ng3l021 · 11-08-2008, 08:27 PM

And the other 2 games in GB and against CHI. We dominated the poor teams (combined score of all 3 games was 96-35) and beat some marginal teams. Of the losses, we were in it in the 4th quarters (and had it not been for the blown call in the Eagles game, that could have been a W as well). I really don't think you can look at our record and base it off of the bad teams we played because we have beaten them convincingly, beat teams around our area, and stayed in it with the better teams.

As for this game, the Saints offense might be able to move at will (they probably will actually), but you underestimate the other facets of the game. Would you think your defense to stop Turner from chewing up the clock and limiting the number of possessions Brees gets? The defense you have is not good enough to stop Turner without putting 8 in the box, and thats where Ryan and White shine.

If Turner gets rolling early, this could be a blowout. If Turner gets stopped, it will be a Ryan-Brees duel, in which the chances to win the game are 50-50 (maybe even slightly favoring the Saints).

Also, Falcons are 4-0 at home and Saints are 0-3 away.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan · 11-08-2008, 08:47 PM

Turner actually doesn't worry me very much at all. He's had 4 really good games on the ground and he's been relatively ineffective in the 4 others. The 4 games in which he's posted 100+ yards and averaged over 4 ypc have come against Detroit, Kansas City, Green Bay, and Oakland. Those teams rank 31st, 32nd, 28th, and 30th against the run. The Saints aren't great at stopping the run by any means, but we're middle of the pack. The Falcons are worse, for what its worth.

The Burner is probably going to have a good enough game on the ground, but it won't be enough for Atlanta to keep up with the Saints in terms of putting points on the board. Portis and Tomlinson both got rolling early, and neither of those games were blowouts by any stretch of the imagination.

New Orleans is going to move the ball at will and Atlanta's offense won't be able to match scores. I'm standing by the Saints by 2 touchdowns.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan · 11-08-2008, 08:56 PM

In any case, that's what I think will happen and I'm sticking to it. I'll be back sometime after the game, either to eat crow or to pour salt into some wounds ;)

d34ng3l021 · 11-08-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPFKA#1SaintsFan

Turner actually doesn't worry me very much at all. He's had 4 really good games on the ground and he's been relatively ineffective in the 4 others. The 4 games in which he's posted 100+ yards and averaged over 4 ypc have come against Detroit, Kansas City, Green Bay, and Oakland. Those teams rank 31st, 32nd, 28th, and 30th against the run. The Saints aren't great at stopping the run by any means, but we're middle of the pack. The Falcons are worse, for what its worth.

The Burner is probably going to have a good enough game on the ground, but it won't be enough for Atlanta to keep up with the Saints in terms of putting points on the board. Portis and Tomlinson both got rolling early, and neither of those games were blowouts by any stretch of the imagination.

New Orleans is going to move the ball at will and Atlanta's offense won't be able to match scores. I'm standing by the Saints by 2 touchdowns.

Teams Turner couldnt get going against and their YPC allowed rank.:
Bucs: 10th (away)
Panthers: 16th (away)
Eagles: 5th (away)
Bears: 5th

Theres a certain trend. He tends to do poorly against teams away and teams that are in the top half of the league against the run. Saints are 22nd in YPC allowed with 4.3 yards allowed per rush. Add that to the fact that the game is at home and Grant is on the IR, things don't look too good for the Saints defense. I do not expect a 150+ yard game by Turner, but I expect the Saints to give enough attention to Turner to open things up for Ryan and White to take advantage of the Saints 25th ranked pass defense.

And the Falcons may be bad on defense, but they are 10th in points allowed.

d34ng3l021 · 11-08-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPFKA#1SaintsFan

In any case, that's what I think will happen and I'm sticking to it. I'll be back sometime after the game, either to eat crow or to pour salt into some wounds ;)

lol of course. that is what happens over the course of the season.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan · 11-08-2008, 09:14 PM

Using yards per carry to evaluate a defense's ability to stop the run isn't a very effective argument, dude. Wouldn't you know it that Washington and San Francisco, for example, both give up the same yards per carry, yet Washington is 5th in total rush defense while SF is 19th? You could maybe use YPC when talking about the very best teams against the run and the very worst teams against the run... but every team in between is pretty much in the same area.

The fact of the matter is Turner hasn't faced a single top 5 rush defense yet he's faced 4 out of the bottom 5 and those just so happen to be the only games in which he's really performed. Those stats don't lie, man. Your argument is weak.

dunagan15 · 11-09-2008, 04:34 PM

Good game guys, I really feel bad for Brees. He is a special player and guys like Shockey just piss me off. Hes a little B***h.

d34ng3l021 · 11-09-2008, 09:13 PM

Good game. Very impressive performance by the Saints running defense I thought. Maybe you are not nearly as bad as I had thought. The DBs though...thats a whole new issue.

As for our defense and your offense...Our defense played out of their minds today. Completely overachieved. Abraham was a 1 man wrecking crew and forced several bad plays by himself. Our DBs stepped up their game to a whole new notch. I have never seen them so physical and so aware of where the ball is. I really hope they can keep this up against Marshall and Smith in the upcoming weeks.

My man crush on Colston is still there. He makes everything look so easy. Its as if he is in slow motion when he goes up for the ball and holds on throughout some jarring hits. Also, Lance Moore is awesome.

dunagan15 · 11-09-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d34ng3l021

Good game. Very impressive performance by the Saints running defense I thought. Maybe you are not nearly as bad as I had thought. The DBs though...thats a whole new issue.

As for our defense and your offense...Our defense played out of their minds today. Completely overachieved. Abraham was a 1 man wrecking crew and forced several bad plays by himself. Our DBs stepped up their game to a whole new notch. I have never seen them so physical and so aware of where the ball is. I really hope they can keep this up against Marshall and Smith in the upcoming weeks.

My man crush on Colston is still there. He makes everything look so easy. Its as if he is in slow motion when he goes up for the ball and holds on throughout some jarring hits. Also, Lance Moore is awesome.

Agreed, where did this guy come from?? He was awesome.

diabsoule · 11-09-2008, 09:42 PM

I hated the idea of trading for Shockey and now I really hate the idea. He's constantly injured and has hardly done anything worth the draft picks we sent to the Giants.

d34ng3l021 · 11-09-2008, 10:15 PM

And what about Sean Payton? His first year was great, but after that? I didnt like a lot of his decisions this game. The onside kick twice was just plain dumb. Abandoning the run so early, even though it was somewhat effective. Definitely not the offensive genius, despite having great tools to work with.

diabsoule · 11-09-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d34ng3l021

And what about Sean Payton? His first year was great, but after that? I didnt like a lot of his decisions this game. The onside kick twice was just plain dumb. Abandoning the run so early, even though it was somewhat effective. Definitely not the offensive genius, despite having great tools to work with.

Payton always abandons the run too early. I wasn't a big fan of the move to hire Sean Payton in the first place and people are beginning to see why. He's too reliant upon having a team with great offensive weapons and building and relying on the aerial attack than having a balanced team. This team needs balance.

Drew Brees passed 58 times this game. Yeah, you read that correctly. Fifty-eight. Just reading that stat shows that we barely ran the ball and relied on Drew's arm more than anything to win the game for us.

I've rarely been a fan of Payton's play-calling and it's only gotten worse. He's predictable and overly aggressive.

I just can't say anything good about the coach or DC right now. We suck. Period. We have some good pieces in place but we need the team to be tweaked a considerable amount before we will be considered legitimate contenders for anything.

d34ng3l021 · 11-09-2008, 10:45 PM

To think the team would be so much better if they simply ran the ball more often. He is getting way too carried away with having Drew Brees as his QB and targets everywhere.

Auron · 11-09-2008, 10:53 PM

Looks like the Saints will sing the same exact song as last season. At this point in the season I've seen enough and it's fairly clear the Saints are behind the other 3 teams in this Division. Just way too many glaring deficiencies on this team. Disastrous Secondary (will only get worse with McKenzie's injury, ineffective Pass Rush, Offense that is just way too 1-dimensional, and this problem only compounds once we get down score-wise.

Very disappointed in Jeremy Shockey.. it's good to know that when the team needs him to be mentally in the game the most, that he quits and just sulks on the sideline.

D3- regarding Payton it seems like he's taken a way too aggressive approach in his game management, and play calling actions. Now there are times when it's necessary to take risks, but they have to be calculated.. Excessive risk taking when the odds are stacked against you becomes foolish and Sean is repeating a lot of the same mistakes.. (an example of this can be the opening play of the game a forced Play-action to the Deep post to Henderson that was intercepted. First play of the game, no run threat has been establish the Safeties would be fools to bite on any kind of play-action) Payton needs to go back to the fundamentals that made him successful in '06. Playing smart, fundamental football, controlling the ball with an efficient short passing game, and an honesty to the run. The past 2 years it seems like the Saints want to be a "flashy" Offense.

CJSchneider · 11-10-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auron

Payton needs to go back to the fundamentals that made him successful in '06. Playing smart, fundamental football, controlling the ball with an efficient short passing game, and an honesty to the run. The past 2 years it seems like the Saints want to be a "flashy" Offense.

Couldn't say it any better myself.