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Old 01-14-2015, 08:24 PM    (permalink
thetedginnshow
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Oh how strange. How does it even let you have a blank topic? Lol forum bugging. Anyway...

We're way late on this so I thought I'd get our official draft topic up and running. Discuss anything and everything draft related!

Now that we have some of the infrastructure in place, maybe we can look at how we'll be drafting. Bowles was a former safety so he might have a fresh perspective on how we should address the defense. Famed Houston beat writer John McClain said Maccagnan had his imprint all over the drafts he was a part of in Houston, so expect high character people dedicated to football.

What do people think about team needs? For me my order of needs (not necessarily the order we draft them in) would be...

QB
DE/OLB (a pass rusher)
OG
OT
LB
S
CB
RB
WR
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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Any prospects people have taken a liking to possibly outside of first rounders? I'm liking Tre McBride and Justin Hardy, as well as Paul Dawson and Eric Kendricks. Chris Hackett might be an interesting guy out of TCU and Kikaha out of UW can be something if he stays healthy. Really most UW guys translate well.

I'll have some preliminary draft rankings after this declare date goes by.
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Old 01-15-2015, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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I need to watch more guys outside the first, though I'll probably settle on an opinion on the guys they might take at 6. Tough to really figure out who is going to be an option outside the first round though - last year around this time Odell Beckham wasn't viewed as a first rounder and I loved him. I will say I think they've got a chance to draft a damn good player at the top of the second round so that's going to be exciting to track.

As far as needs - guard's a big need on paper but I'd just as soon they sign a vet and let the three young guys take a crack at the job along with him. Interested to see what Dozier's got, Aboushi didn't look too bad inside. Lots of youth there already. Tackle I think is best addressed with a developmental guy or waiting until next year when they can cut Giacomini.

Quarterback I'll take if I can get one, edge rusher is definitely next in line. Not sure edge rusher will be viewed as a "need" position with Bowles manufacturing pressure and blitzing - we saw it ignored for years with Rex doing the same thing - but it's a premium position and personally I think one is necessary.

Corner is definitely a need. Safety could be - I'm curious to see what Bowles thinks of the guys on the roster. Would think a Pryor-Jarrett pairing, while not ideal, could work. But

Inside linebacker could be a problem. My guess would be that they'll bring in Larry Foote in FA, Bowles apparently raved about him. That would preclude the need for an immediate starter, but Foote's not a spring chicken so they could draft a guy

I think a receiver could make sense as a knee jerk reaction to fix the offense, otherwise a nice #4 developmental type should be fine. Depth isn't great, but if Harvin is retained the top 3 are solid. If he's not, this jumps up the list. Running back I think would be great to address on day 2 or early day 3 if a guy like Spiller isn't signed (day 3 even if he is, not a lot of depth there either).

Quarterback is obviously a massive need. Frankly I wouldn't mind another tight end either, but I just love that position.

Defensive line isn't a need although Rex may poach some of the depth. Retaining Snacks will be key.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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So I guess what we're saying is that we have a lot of needs and a lot of ways we can fill them lol. Luckily with what might be a great FA class and the draft we have many ways to our goal, just gotta get things right.

Just as last class was perfect for us in its depth at QB, WR, and OL, this one is perfect for us in its depth at RB, edge rusher, and CB. Last draft we touched on the strengths abysmally, so we'll see how we do this time around.
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Old 01-16-2015, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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Haha, that's for sure. My preferred approach is that, barring an exception where one of the absolute top FA's gets loose somehow, they band aid needs with cheap vets on short term deals and try to draft.

For example if they bring in Cro for a couple of years (literally a two year deal), draft a guy in rounds 2-5 (wide range), and go into the season with Cro, Milliner, McDougle, Walls, Williams (who looked good in stretches and Maccagnan should be familiar with since I think he came from Houston), rookie - that's a start.

The issue becomes that I think that should be a general gameplan at CB, S (Jarrett, rookie), ILB (Foote, rookie), G, and WR. I'd also like a developmental tackle drafted, a home run hitter with hands at RB, an edge rusher, obviously a quarterback, and the aforementioned TE position that I love. That's ten positions for what, six picks? And one of them won't be a 4th if Harvin is retained - of course if he's not then WR is a huge need.

It obviously matters position wise too. Depends if it's a starter only need or a starter/depth need. I don't think edge rusher needs depth as much as a stud player, so that's something that if you've got better values in the first and second (still think the way this draft lines up it's the way to go at 6 assuming a. no QB there and b. no trade down) it's probably not worth addressing later for example. On the flip side based on financial situation you're probably not starting the tackle that you drafted in the second round and I'm not sure this team can afford to be making developmental picks in the top 40.

You make a fantastic point on hitting on the strengths of the draft. Hopefully Idzik gets that done.
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Old 01-16-2015, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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Oh new thread..


Despite how big cap room Jets have, they should not overpay on offensive skill players. Big money and ego are prone to them. Pay them at right price and lengthy of contract aka band aids. RE would be ideal position for Jets to overpay but we still have Barnes. A veteran CB and S would be also needs to blend in with youngsters.

I would love to see Jets make few trades for quarterback like Ryan Griffin, Keith Wenning, Scott Tolzien or Mike Glennon. However, I like to see it happen between 1st and 2nd round not prior to 1st round. Just in case if Buc taking Winston and Jets missing out on Mariota as Jets should go after Glennon hard.



WR unit should be consist of Decker (fastest), Harvin (Cat), Kerley (slot) and Evan (Possession) to start off but drafting a fine WO would be necessary to improve depth and secure spot just in case if Decker or Harvin gone after 2015.

2015 draft has a ridiculously abundance of RB prospects so we won't need to worry who will be with us buy I like Tyler Varga and Tom Crockett the best.


Edge if no FA signing - Basically, anyone can fit Bowles' scheme at RE so it will be down to character and interview bs. If Gregory is the one, I will be much pleased with it because I root for non 1st round quarterback.


ILB - It all depends on how fittable will Demario Davis at spacious MLB. I think he better fit either outside spot. Get a veteran and draft one with plenty range.


Front 7 set as right now should be

LE- Coples
DT- Wilkerson.
UT- Richardson.
RE- Barnes.
SLB - ?
MLB - Davis
WLB - ?

Use money on defense and use draft or trade to bolster offense.

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Old 01-16-2015, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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I think you guys really need to go OL early. I think your unit is passable now, but in 1-2 year Brick and Mangold are going to fall off a cliff. It makes sense to get a guy or 2 in the starting lineup with the talent to anchor that line. You might be able to find a long term starter out of that LG group you have out there, but without a clear franchise QB in the next couple you need 5 good starters on the offensive line.

Part of the long slow decline the Jets saw was that the OL has essentially been getting worse since 2009.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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I think you guys really need to go OL early. I think your unit is passable now, but in 1-2 year Brick and Mangold are going to fall off a cliff. It makes sense to get a guy or 2 in the starting lineup with the talent to anchor that line. You might be able to find a long term starter out of that LG group you have out there, but without a clear franchise QB in the next couple you need 5 good starters on the offensive line.

Part of the long slow decline the Jets saw was that the OL has essentially been getting worse since 2009.

We are well aware of that.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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I'd love to go OL early, it's just a weird situation now team structure and cap-wise. Neither of our tackles is going to get released and I don't think either would fit well inside at guard. The team has a ton of youth at guard right now, and I don't really want to draft a guy, start him at guard, move him to RT, and then move him to LT.

I would have zero problem if they try to make it work, but I think it may be more likely that the line just gets completely overhauled starting next year.


Also, improving the offensive line is a great way to make a quick fix and have the whole offense look better. But there's still not going to be a QB. Wouldn't mind another year of misery if it means a shot at a franchise quarterback, rather than another chunk of time in purgatory.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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I'd love to go OL early, it's just a weird situation now team structure and cap-wise. Neither of our tackles is going to get released and I don't think either would fit well inside at guard. The team has a ton of youth at guard right now, and I don't really want to draft a guy, start him at guard, move him to RT, and then move him to LT.

I would have zero problem if they try to make it work, but I think it may be more likely that the line just gets completely overhauled starting next year.


Also, improving the offensive line is a great way to make a quick fix and have the whole offense look better. But there's still not going to be a QB. Wouldn't mind another year of misery if it means a shot at a franchise quarterback, rather than another chunk of time in purgatory.
Giacomini is going to get the axe in 2016. His contract has $4.5 million base salaries in 2016 and 2017 and just over a million in dead cap if he's cut. He was an Idzik guy. I wouldn't hold off in going for a Tackle. If the right guy comes along you give Giacomini a shot at OG and worst case scenario you have a competent backup swing tackle.
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Old 01-16-2015, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Giacomini is going to get the axe in 2016. His contract has $4.5 million base salaries in 2016 and 2017 and just over a million in dead cap if he's cut. He was an Idzik guy. I wouldn't hold off in going for a Tackle. If the right guy comes along you give Giacomini a shot at OG and worst case scenario you have a competent backup swing tackle.
I completely agree that Giacomini is going to be gone in 2016. I guess what I'm saying is that if scenario A is that they draft a tackle at 6, push Giacomini to the bench (I think he'd struggling getting leverage inside at guard), and have that guy replace Brick in 2 years and scenario B is that they roll with Giacomini and Brick for 2015, cut Giacomini, draft a tackle to replace him and then take over for Brick in a year - scenario B seems more likely to me.

Drafting a project tackle to develop for a year and take over for Giacomini or two years and take over for Brick I could see too.

Like I said, I wouldn't have a problem with them going line. It's easily the best way to get a quick fix and improve the offense. I'd just as soon plug other holes and spend the next two years doing it, but if they start now you won't catch me complaining.

The other big factor in this that I'm not mentioning is that this doesn't seem to be a great tackle class. That's a huge component. Would rather take a stud edge guy at 6 than reach a bit for a tackle.
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Old 01-16-2015, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Oh bother!

Jets are going to switch to ZBS so OT is not in high demand. Both Ferguson and Giacomini will be all right for another one or two seasons. The get rid of football timing of quarterback will be critical. Just find a quarterback that can get rid of football faster than Geno Smith then we will be fine.
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Old 01-16-2015, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Ohhh... So far, Chiefs and Houston are not in the contract talk. If Jets plan to draft DE in 1st then Justin Houston is worthy of sacrificing 6th overall selection.
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Old 01-16-2015, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Obviously Houston is better on paper than whoever the Jets would draft at 6th overall, but a) I always worry about guys getting big contracts and b) the contract itself is a factor - big perk to draft picks with the new CBA is that they're on more team friendly contracts for a few years.
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Old 01-16-2015, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Obviously Houston is better on paper than whoever the Jets would draft at 6th overall, but a) I always worry about guys getting big contracts and b) the contract itself is a factor - big perk to draft picks with the new CBA is that they're on more team friendly contracts for a few years.
I would rather to have a full packed DE for 3 or 4 years than waiting for rookie to develop into a complete DE.

With no good quarterback in the market, investing in DE is an affordability. For top 10 draftee, the 5th option would be ridiculously expensive to cover if you find a stud quarterback in that time. Houston would be gone by that as a cheaper would be groomed DE taking over his spot.
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure what the rush to be competitive is. Jets should be trying to build a good young roster, not go 8-8 or be one and done in the playoffs. If you're going to get rid of Houston in a few years anyway, what's the point?
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Old 01-16-2015, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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You get solid service out of Houston for at least first 3 or 4 years. On 3rd or 4th year, Jets would have drafted DE to be groomed to replace Houston. That way defense won't stop sucking so Jets can focus on improving offense. Who knows whenever will the offense become above average.

If Jets defense got weaker, it would become difficult to retain Wilkerson and Richardson for long term. Jets need a legit DE to protect the investment in defense.


However, there are several scouts that suggested Dupree has explosiveness so if it is legit then he could be better option at 6th.

Fowler, Gregory, and Ray lack run support to go with quick edge. They are whom I would rather Houston over. Dupree is the different story. If I remember correctly, you like him for 2nd so if his stock keeps rising then we will come to an agreement.
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Old 01-17-2015, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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Not a single GM would give up a top ten pick for Houston lol. That's not happening. We're also much more likely to get a cut Hali.

On the OL discussion, as you can see with the Fins last year or the Cowboys, if you draft the right guy, you can instantly plug them in. We don't need to draft a project but a guy in the last couple rounds couldn't hurt. Good points brought up about how we're kind of handcuffed at the moment with those OTs.

Great point also brought up about Harvin and the pick. I wonder if that factors in at all in if we keep him. He's just such a great talent and we've yet to see character issues so I don't see why he should go. I love him though so I'm biased lol.

Spiller does make a ton of sense but when you have a draft so deep at rb and edge rusher it's just kind of illogical to target those positions in FA with injury prone players but hey if you draft like we did last year maybe that's the way to go lol.

Hard to say who of veterans will be available as several guys will get cut but just assuming the positions don't get addressed in FA and we did keep Harvin you would have three notable picks to hit on for impact players. What way would you go in the first three rounds? I would probably look at edge rusher and cb and whatever else of value.
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Old 01-17-2015, 10:36 AM    (permalink
YotoJets007
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For OL bs.... Out of 49ers, Cowboys and Dolphins, Anthony Davis (11th) is only top 10 to play outside LT. The rest of them are either top 10 for LT and outside 15 for all other than LT.

For now, OL is on suspension. There is a big problem with OL in the Shrine. According to Howard Mudd, none of them have conception of 3 point so Maccagnan will have to put some extra study on OL for middle rounders. Could settle down with OL from Senior Bowl or Early Entry group for early rounds.

Merde! NFLPA and Shrine games are on tv but at the same time. I only can record one. Yup! I am a cheapsie.
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Old 01-17-2015, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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I like to keep Harvin but we will know more after the combine week. Macc may prefer to have two real WO on the roster. I root for Shaq Evans but who knows.
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Old 01-18-2015, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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I was able to watch most of both NFLPA and Shrine Bowls yesterday.

Oh boy, Mudd was so right about OL. It is unfortunate because DE Smith (Kentucky) and Chickillo (Miami-Fl) looked part for 4-3 DE and they basically walked over OL. Not ready to call them a dark horse for Rodgers' 4-3.

Quarterbacks - Lovelace and Bridge can upgrade to Chris Simms at 3rd spot if Jets want to refine their toolsy. That's it for both bowls.

John Miller (Louisville) is quite a powerful RG. Jon Feliciano (Miami-Fl) has done well courting the line but I am not sure about his balance for power as he may remind me of better Aboushi. I only saw him playing LG so I have no idea how was he at LT or RT if he actually played those spots.

Both Coleman (Tennessee) and Swann (UGA) are sound at coverage but they are thin as you may seek for strong CB. Josh Shaw can be perfect one for us but he played against pathetic qbs.


Ah.. I failed to tell you.... those three prospects from Medal of Honor Bowl I have liked. OLB/DE Brock Hekking (Nevada), QB Ryan Williams (Miami-Fl) and Issac Blakeney (Duke) all played for Chan Gailey in this Bowl. Hopefully, Gailey provided solid 2 cents on them to Macc.
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Old 01-19-2015, 03:20 AM    (permalink
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John Miller was the only person at a position of need that I liked. We never seem to take a guy from a school the year after we got burned taking a guy there though so I'll just assume no UL people lol.
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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Caught a little of Quinten Rollins tonight. Impressed with his ball skills, fluidity, and willingness to come up and tackle for a guy who's reasonably new to football.

Not sure about his straight line speed so I'm curious to see how he times since we'll be running plenty of man to man with Bowles I'm sure. If he burns the 40 there's no way he's there in the second, but if he runs a good but not great time he could be a really intriguing upside pick there. Obviously if he doesn't run well he's probably a better fit in a zone heavy or cover 2 scheme (where he could be a real weapon).
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Petty and Grayson offer good size but they will be 24 years old by this June 1st. Ugh! They must show their ability to soak up NFL playbook and show solid reading process against NFL to be a starting caliber.

Dare to compare.... Mike Glennon just turned 25 years old last December and has 2 years in NFL under his belt. Ryan Griffin turned 25 years old last November and has 2 years practicing with scout squad.

What a letdown.


Lynden Trail checked in 6 6 height, 264 weight, 10+ hand size and 35- arm length. What a perfect specimen.


Jets were all over Phillip Dorsett who checked in as a definably diminutive WR? Come On!
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derza222 View Post
Caught a little of Quinten Rollins tonight. Impressed with his ball skills, fluidity, and willingness to come up and tackle for a guy who's reasonably new to football.

Not sure about his straight line speed so I'm curious to see how he times since we'll be running plenty of man to man with Bowles I'm sure. If he burns the 40 there's no way he's there in the second, but if he runs a good but not great time he could be a really intriguing upside pick there. Obviously if he doesn't run well he's probably a better fit in a zone heavy or cover 2 scheme (where he could be a real weapon).

He and Josh Shaw were mentioned positively today at practice.
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