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Old 10-15-2007, 06:59 PM    (permalink
JETS5128
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Originally Posted by hcbrad08 View Post
This is what happens when youre losing...mistakes are amplified and things that are already weaknesses become more apparent to the teams you face.
The Play calling was the worst Ive ever seen it on offense. Look at the tape and anytime we got any sort of long pass play 9+yards and on bigger running plays we just said okay draw to the left and got stuffed. If fans know the play calling tendancies than what do other coacches know. I'm very surprised we didn'rt score from the 4. I hated the calls and wanted them to pass earlier. I have a feeling Mangini has sacked this season. we'd have to go 9-1 the rest of the way to make the playoffs and if were really lucky 8-2. If he starts Chad he gives Clemens more time to groove himself into a true starter. Im all for playing young QBs but not if it will be a hinderance to their progress as opposed to developing and I think we can win SOME games with Chad.

I can really seet his happening...The Jets keep Chad next season (as a backup...his salary is incentive based so he makes like 1.5 base then bonuses which makes this feasible)...Clemens play well and people say why didn't he start earlier and Mangini attributes it to his sitting and development and makes himself look like a genius again...Im pretty sure Chad is starting next week against a horrible Bengals D and if the season goes completely aft astray sometime soon I can see Clemens come in.

After yesterdays game I realized even for clemens we need a BIG reciever so a high ball doesnt kill him. LC is so athletic and goes up to get balls which put him at risk but if some sailing balls went to a bigger WR then I think it would be beneficial to a one dimensional WR core who can be defensed with one game plan as opposed to teams with diverse players like the Patriots who have Stallworth great at YAC MOss deep threat Welker possesion/YAC and so on (both LC and JC have good hands but aren't burners but they are great at YAC and in the open field, we need a multifaceted attack)

Bright spots: Not many
-Defense looked better but not great I noticed all game they just got bullied around at the point of attack...Still LBs played better and Kenyon Coleman is a real 3-4 DE.
-Every season there is a team that is so close to winning but loses a lot. The next season it's those types of teams who (if they can make some adjustments) people say well they were in everygame they played last year and since improvements a b and c happened they've gotten over the hump and are a contender. (Hopefully, that pertains to us)
Clemens has already had a year and a half to learn the system, he is ready. The season is already lost, i see no reason why Chad should be playing. It's better to let Clemens get all the growing pains out this year, so that next year we're not starting a rookie basically. I don't see Chad benefiting us in a way that Clemens can't on the field.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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For those of you who actually watched the entire Ravens game (not just the 4th quarter): you would have seen a Jets offense stall almost every drive that wasn't in the fourth quarter. Clemens made some horrible throws in that game but came back in the end with a soft zone defense the ravens were usuing to protect the lead...I like Clemens a lot and I loved the pick last year, but I don't think he's ready to be a 4 quarter QB as opposed to a 4th quarter QB... If he were that good in the Ravens game and they saw everything they needed and were happy with his progress why wouldn't they have started him in the Miami game in the subsequent week when the Jets won. It was the weakest game they were going to play and it would have been smart to keep a guy who's injury prone and unlucky like Chad to sit out another week as a precaution and let Clemens develop. Do we forget Clemens threw 2 Ints in his only start. (One wasn't his fault but people seems to ignore that when its said about Chad's picks). For all of you who will say Clemens got us close to a win youre right he did, but we've been in EVERY GAME (except the Patriots)

I myself a big Chad supporter said, it's sad bc this guys done, if not at Cinci then defnitely the week after: but obviously Chad is starting bc Mangini knows that putting a QB in too soon can hinder his development. (Don't give me the idea that maybe mangini is too loyal to Chad...bc he can evaluate talent...case and point giving Cotchery more playing time as the #2 WR when he wasn't playing for Herm)

If Clemens was the far and beyond QB at this point in his Career that you are all talking about he would be starting bc the offense is sputerring and cant threaten downfield but we forget he was a 2nd round draft pick LAST YEAR...I think the Jets should put him in to see what hes got especially since the season is getting away from us...But I think letting him sit another week or two and finishing the season hopefully on a high note is a better strategy than to rush him into a team that has a BAD OL: LG and RT (that everyone seems to forget about) that would get a young QB killed.

On the idea that Jets need to draft a TE...Have you ever seen Chris Baker Play? He has some of the best hands for a TE ive ever seen (Ill reference you to the catch against the dolphins this year and his TD at the ravens as what should have been the game tying TD at Cle last year when he was forced out but it was called incomplete). He might not be able to stretch the field but with the exception of SD NE DAL BAL CHI IND not many TE stretch the field (The Jets need a burner or someone who can go up and get jump balls as WR not a TE)...Hes become more apparent this year and is a good blocker...Not to mention..the Jets carry more TEs than any other position on the team so I think they feel like they have their guy/guys. (most are versatile Hbacks/blocking TEs some play FB and Baker is the reliable pass catcher). The Jets have much more pressing positional needs than TE so please stop...Shockey is considered a dynamic TE and Baker has more TDs from a QB who everybody today (myself included) on this board trashes. So explain why we need a TE when the top 3 coming out are a weak class and 2nd rounders while the Jets need help at NT, LG, RT, LE, LOLB, CB, WR.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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Clemens has already had a year and a half to learn the system, he is ready. The season is already lost, i see no reason why Chad should be playing. It's better to let Clemens get all the growing pains out this year, so that next year we're not starting a rookie basically. I don't see Chad benefiting us in a way that Clemens can't on the field.
I, and pretty much every NYC sports writer/bloggist agrees. As of now, we are playing Us vs. 13 or so teams vying for the wild card spot. And it is obvious to anyone who has simple mathematical skills and knowledge of football to see that it is almost impossible for us to make the playoffs. We'd have to go 9-1 and if we are lucky 8-2. And considering we play the pats, steelers and cowboys, we would be lucky to win one of those games. I am just wondering whether or not mangini beleives that kellen is going to be the future of our team. I am slowly growing this extremely disturbing feeling that mangini will name chad as the starter for the rest of the year and going into the offseason. Besides that nightmare, I just don't understand how Kellen won't be starting? With another poor/pedestrian performance from chad coupled with a loss, I don't want to see how the locker room is.

I am wondering how many players have something to say, but won't because they dont want to get fined. Chris Baker had a talking to after the game for his statement; basically he said he doesn't understand how TJ didn't get the ball at the end. He said he wasn't surprised by that play call and hes not surprised with any of the play calling. Which is terrible.

I really am getting annoyed with how mangini always spreads all the blame around. Yes, I know that you never want to single out a player and thats a sign of a good coach. However, he is always willing to say we could have made a few catches, better routes, better tackling, which essentially is signalling out those players. He says i know chad would like some throws back, but he acts as if chad is infallable. And that replacing him with Clemens is ludicrous. I just dont understand what is so unreasonable about replacing him. Yes, there are things we don't see that he does to help win us the games. And i am sure there are plenty of subtle nuances that he does that amaze the coaches in a good way. But, bottom line is, he is obviously not doing enough of these "amazing calls, or sublte nuances" to win us a game. When you have 4 chances in the red zone and come away with 3 fg;s and a turnover on downs, you have to place some of the blame on the QB. I blame the qb sneak on the play calling and chad. There is no way someone as smart as him can't see that there are 9 in the box. I know he didn't want to use a timeout, but atleast audible off, it was almost 2 yards he had to pick. Anyways, I just dont see how Clemens could be doing a worse job than 1-5, especially when everyone sees him as the qb of the future. But, I think because it is so obvious for us becuase we see him as the qb of the future, maybe mangini just doesn't think so. He was quoted as saying that Kellen could without a doubt come in and take over. Oh well. Hopefully we will be able to run the ball over cinci's run defense and hopefully our secondary can make tackles.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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The fact that you said I dont see how Kellen couldnt do better than 1-5 shows that you're not listening....One player isn't a team....I thought this was telling Vinny Testaverde was quoted as saying this in the Daily News after being asked about his weapons nows on the Panthers with Steve Smith and co. vs when was on the Jets and then ther follow uip question was about chad and if he should sitll be starting.

"Personally, I think Chad is one of the better quarterbacks in the league. A lot of people talk about arm strength; it's not all about arm strength. (From a man who still has more than 90% of QBs) Sometimes the team doesn't have the talent to win each week, and it all falls in the quarterback's lap. You start to press. I've seen Chad try to make plays that aren't there because the team is behind. I've done it before. I'm speaking from experience."

I think I've said this verbatum...that we're pressing and blaming it on Chad now I have a 17 year veteraan QB, heisman winner and more importantly former Jet to back me up....lets talk about something else, bc I think talking about Chad is now a moot point...it doesnt look like we'll see achange anytime soon.
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Old 10-17-2007, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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I think you're right hcbrad, the only reason at this point we're not starting Clemens is because Mangini thinks it will hinder his development. At this point, I do think starting a game against a terrible Bengals defense would be a good start. Other than that, if he's going to start this year I think the next best game to get him off on the right foot would be week 13 against Miami. It will be interesting to see if and when Mangini throws him into the fire. A point that's been made frequently is that the half year of starting Jason Campbell got a couple of years ago with the Redskins was very valuable, we'll see if Mangini believes a half year would be beneficial for Clemens as well.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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For those of you who actually watched the entire Ravens game (not just the 4th quarter): you would have seen a Jets offense stall almost every drive that wasn't in the fourth quarter. Clemens made some horrible throws in that game but came back in the end with a soft zone defense the ravens were usuing to protect the lead...I like Clemens a lot and I loved the pick last year, but I don't think he's ready to be a 4 quarter QB as opposed to a 4th quarter QB...
Are you seriously trying to say that the Ravens game was bad for Clemens? It was his first freaking start, and it was on the road against the Ravens!! You're saying the Ravens weren't 'trying' to stop Clemens with soft defenses? I never understand this type of argument. Pennington hasn't had drives like that all year. Are you going to say that when Pennington is in there, they suddenly get scared and start playing well? Hell, they don't even have to play a soft, deep coverage because Pennington is virtually incapable of throwing any deep pass that isn't a touch pass over the middle of the field.

Of course we haven't seen a lot of Clemens. Your points all seem to have the tone of 'we need to see more of him'. How else are we going to know what he's got unless he starts? The 'Pennington gives us the best chance to win' argument simply doesn't hold anymore. How anyone can watch the Jets and not think Pennington is holding us back seems ridiculous.

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If he were that good in the Ravens game and they saw everything they needed and were happy with his progress why wouldn't they have started him in the Miami game in the subsequent week when the Jets won.
Of course they weren't going to keep Clemens in there next week. This reeks of hindsight to me. It was only the second week and Pennington hadn't played bad at all against New England. Benching Chad so early would have sent poor messages throughout the locker room so early in the season when we all still believed they had a shot.

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It was the weakest game they were going to play and it would have been smart to keep a guy who's injury prone and unlucky like Chad to sit out another week as a precaution and let Clemens develop. Do we forget Clemens threw 2 Ints in his only start. (One wasn't his fault but people seems to ignore that when its said about Chad's picks). For all of you who will say Clemens got us close to a win youre right he did, but we've been in EVERY GAME (except the Patriots)
So when Clemens throws 2 picks, neither of which were his fault: on one, Coles fell down, and the other was so fricking obviously on McCantcatch, you use it to blame a loss on him. But when pennington throws 2-3 every games, all of which complete game changers, you throw around excuses like, 'the defensive backs saw the route before'.

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If Clemens was the far and beyond QB at this point in his Career that you are all talking about he would be starting bc the offense is sputerring and cant threaten downfield but we forget he was a 2nd round draft pick LAST YEAR...I think the Jets should put him in to see what hes got especially since the season is getting away from us...But I think letting him sit another week or two and finishing the season hopefully on a high note is a better strategy than to rush him into a team that has a BAD OL: LG and RT (that everyone seems to forget about) that would get a young QB killed.
Our offensive line has done outstanding in pass protection since the New England game. I might even dare to say that D'Brick is playing on a pro bowl level this season. The running game was fantastic against the Giants, but Pennington and the offense STILL only put up 9 points. And, if I remember correctly, 3 of them came straight off of an INT. I'd be the first to admit that the problems with this team go well beyond the QB position. The difference is that we have no one on this team capable of playing NT, or a pass rushing LB. Clemens may be the answer at the quarterback position.



The Jets needs start and end with front seven help. People love to blame the secondary when they struggle playing in one-one coverages every down. No DB in the league could play well with the help the front seven is giving.
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Old 10-17-2007, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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I am listening. And I 100% feel that Clemens would have won atleast one of these games, but that doesn't matter.

Yes, there are many other points that need adressing, but you can't deny that QB isn't exactly a strength right now. It seems as tho many, mangini included, are so quick to say that losing is a group effort, which it is and go on to name route running, pass rush, tackling (mangini actually mentioned smith and dyson in his interview) etc. THey never seem to place any blame on Chad. They might say oh, he'd like to have some balls back. They never say he has been absolutely inefficient at getting us into the endzone, especially when we had 4 red zone attempts. At some point you have to say that the QB isn't doing his part. Becuase like it can't be all his fault, it can't always be route running, tackling and pass rush that are losing us games.

And yes Vinny is saying that Chad is one of the better QB's in the league. Yes he was a heisman and a long time vet. But when was the last time he suited up as a jet and had to be on the field as our team couldn't get in the endzone? It seems as though you are disregarding everyone else's opinion, including Ron Jaworski, a long time NFL vet, long time analyst who is referred to as "King of Tape Breakdown," who is known for his QB analysis and says that chad needs to be replaced. I understand wanting to defend chad, which i beleive is what vinny is doing, but Jaws, as well as almost every other analyst, has a unbiased opinion and 100% agree chad simply doesn't have it anymore. Right now, ive heard all of Coach Walsh's "Arm strength is the least important aspect of a QB," or that chad does everything else so well that goes unnoticed, but that isn't getting us into the end zone. THe few drives, especially in the 4th quarter, that Clemens put together is just something that we hadn't seen all year. The ravens had there backs to the walls, and if it wasn't for that McCareins drop, we woulda tied it up. My point is, I have been listening and watching and I personally just do not feel that chad has the ability to be an affective starter on our team, maybe a more talented team.

THe next point is that most analysts and coaches beleive you need something like 25 games in order to determine the affectiveness of a QB. THis season is lost and I for won do not want to play for a draft pick. I want to use the rest of the games to see what we have in Clemens. I dont see how the positives of keeping chad in now outweighs starting Kellen for the rest of the year. With the rest of this year and all of next year, that will be 26 games seeing Kellen and than we can decide in that offseason whether he is franchise worthy or we go in another direction ANd no, i am not throwing out next year becuase he is starting, I feel he will do a very good job given the starting role. But, god forbin he should do terrible (much like our record this year) we will have had adequate time to make a decision about him and go into the offseason knowing what we want.
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Sean Salisbury also said Chad should be replaced and he was the biggest hack in the world in the nfl so hes supposed to be reliable. (ESPN as Ive alwsays said is the patriots c%m dumpster and hates the Jets so they only have things to say about the jets when things are bad so thats the only real story they can and will report)

Ron Jaworski also said Chad Pennington cannot win with THIS team. He and Merrill Hodge also said Kellen Clemens was the second best QB coming out last year bc on film he can make all the throws Jaworski like Cutler, Clemens, Leinart, Young... So he has a vested interest to see Clemens play

Also ZIM now you know how dumb those arguments are when you say chad threw interceptions so we lost the game... I even said the only reaosn I was doing it was bc you and everyone else do it all the time (I was being sarcastic...I watched the game twice and 1 pick LC fell down but look at it again the ball was overthrown only where a raven could catch it). I wasn't blaming clemens I was saying those types of arguments are stupid...no one player is responsible for a team being this bad (especially in the win column) so re read my post and stop taking things out of context.

Yes it takes 25-26 games to analyze a QB that means 16 reg season games next season and 5-6 this season (In case you lost track there are 10 left there is plenty of time to evaluate clemens by the end of next season). Keeping Pennington in keeps things constant so they can do an overall talent evaluation... To see if its just chad and kellen will win or if there are bigger problems on the team as a whole... If you plug in clemens and see he (because hes a rookie and has no scouting report) masks problems that we'll have AS A TEAM in the future then you're harming the whole team. Also, with the exception on V Young whos a new type of QB name one QB who's come in to start effectively in there 2nd year. Jason Cambell did it yes...in a run happy offense (JOE GIBBS football) the Jets are not talented enough to develop a QB with a bad OL bad D and bad playcalling...Chad stays in bc it lets Kellen learn more so if and when he comes in hes as good as he can be (Honestly look at the 1st 3 quarters of the Ravens game QB Grade- D+ ) and it allows them to evaluate talent more effectively

I just don't buy Chad's armstrength being the only problem...Why didnt people jump him last year hes always had a weak arm. I think it is a group effort in losing and I would like to know how a weak and awful QB like chad pennington played well last year using all the current criticism. (Basically take whats wrong with him: what you all say" arm strength" ) and tell me why ( closer to his shoulder surgury) why it didn't effect him.

THE TEAM IS BAD...Clemens will eventually be the QB, just not this week.... I dont even see the point in arguing it...we have 4+ quarters of evaluation for Clemens. My problem is Im pretty sure hes not ready bc they chose to bring back chad in the 4th quarter on a bumb ankle rather than have Clemens run the drill against the Patriots...Why didn't chad suck then? Why did they bring back Chad against the dolphins instead of Kellen when it was the easiest game on the schedule and Chad could use a break (bc Clemens IS NOT READY) Please answer the questions and explain these thigns to me as to why the coaches and FO are doing these things instead of ignoring them and taking other things out of context (there are logical explinations to them and I dont think they can or should be ignored).

LETS GET THIS FORUM FIRED UP !!!!!! COME ON B!TCHES!!!!!!! I LOVE GOOD FORUM BATTLES!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-19-2007, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Sean Salisbury also said Chad should be replaced and he was the biggest hack in the world in the nfl so hes supposed to be reliable. (ESPN as Ive alwsays said is the patriots c%m dumpster and hates the Jets so they only have things to say about the jets when things are bad so thats the only real story they can and will report)

Ron Jaworski also said Chad Pennington cannot win with THIS team. He and Merrill Hodge also said Kellen Clemens was the second best QB coming out last year bc on film he can make all the throws Jaworski like Cutler, Clemens, Leinart, Young... So he has a vested interest to see Clemens play
We can spend all day throwing around self-proclaimed 'experts' who have opinions on Chad. Validating opinions based on some guy in the media is just silly.

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Also ZIM now you know how dumb those arguments are when you say chad threw interceptions so we lost the game... I even said the only reaosn I was doing it was bc you and everyone else do it all the time (I was being sarcastic...I watched the game twice and 1 pick LC fell down but look at it again the ball was overthrown only where a raven could catch it). I wasn't blaming clemens I was saying those types of arguments are stupid...no one player is responsible for a team being this bad (especially in the win column) so re read my post and stop taking things out of context.
Pennington's interceptions have come at very bad times. Although, honestly, that is not at all the thing that's bothered me about him. It's the lack of points that the offense has been able to put up. I said this a while ago about the Buffalo game and it still rung true against Philly. Thomas Jones had 130 yards, the defense held them to 16 points and gave us 3 points off of a turnover, the offensive line had excellent pass protection. But where the hell were the points? We scored 9 last week and 3 of them came straight off of a turnover. That was one of the most frustrating games I've watched over the past few seasons. The eagles defense was able to completely squeeze the field to within 20 yards because of Chad. How can you honestly not watch this offense and believe that Chad is holding us back?

I don't know if Clemens is the answer, but neither do you, Jaworski, Vinny, or even the coaching staff at this point. How the Hell are we ever going to know if we never give him a chance? At this point, no one can even say that Chad gives us the best chance to win. Last year, his poor play was masked by winning, this year that simply isn't true. Even you must admit by now that Clemens would play better than Chad is right now.
Quote:
Yes it takes 25-26 games to analyze a QB that means 16 reg season games next season and 5-6 this season (In case you lost track there are 10 left there is plenty of time to evaluate clemens by the end of next season). Keeping Pennington in keeps things constant so they can do an overall talent evaluation... To see if its just chad and kellen will win or if there are bigger problems on the team as a whole... If you plug in clemens and see he (because hes a rookie and has no scouting report) masks problems that we'll have AS A TEAM in the future then you're harming the whole team.
I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that keeping Chad in is smart because his poor play will keep the team losing and allow closer evaluation of players? And that if Clemens plays, the team will be winning so we can't accurately judge the poor players from the good ones? Holding back the advancement of the team at the most important position in the name of 'talent evaluation' seems crazy to me
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Also, with the exception on V Young whos a new type of QB name one QB who's come in to start effectively in there 2nd year. Jason Cambell did it yes...in a run happy offense (JOE GIBBS football) the Jets are not talented enough to develop a QB with a bad OL bad D and bad playcalling...Chad stays in bc it lets Kellen learn more so if and when he comes in hes as good as he can be (Honestly look at the 1st 3 quarters of the Ravens game QB Grade- D+ ) and it allows them to evaluate talent more effectively
Look no further than the man you're defending. In 2002, Testaverde was playing poorly and the coaching staff knew that he no longer gave the team a chance to win and put in the young Pennington with hopes of him developing into the future QB. We went on to win the division that year, and Chad starting drawing Joe Montana comparisons...

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I just don't buy Chad's armstrength being the only problem...Why didnt people jump him last year hes always had a weak arm. I think it is a group effort in losing and I would like to know how a weak and awful QB like chad pennington played well last year using all the current criticism. (Basically take whats wrong with him: what you all say" arm strength" ) and tell me why ( closer to his shoulder surgury) why it didn't effect him.
It's not just his shot arm that is holding the team back (though I would argue that it is somehow worse than last year). His decision making and 'qb intelligence' that he was so praised for back in '02 are simply no longer his strengths anymore. Now, perhaps it is a reflection of his limited physical abilities, that have made him so gun shy and unable to realize where he can throw the ball.

I would also argue that Pennington isn't playing all that much worse than last year. In fact, I honestly believe that he will have a good game against Cincinnati next week. It's what he's done his entire career: blow it in the playoffs and against good teams, but save his job against the bad ones.
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THE TEAM IS BAD...Clemens will eventually be the QB, just not this week.... I dont even see the point in arguing it...we have 4+ quarters of evaluation for Clemens. My problem is Im pretty sure hes not ready bc they chose to bring back chad in the 4th quarter on a bumb ankle rather than have Clemens run the drill against the Patriots...Why didn't chad suck then? Why did they bring back Chad against the dolphins instead of Kellen when it was the easiest game on the schedule and Chad could use a break (bc Clemens IS NOT READY) Please answer the questions and explain these thigns to me as to why the coaches and FO are doing these things instead of ignoring them and taking other things out of context (there are logical explinations to them and I dont think they can or should be ignored).
Chad was healthy for the Miami game. I don't know why you would refuse to play your offensive leader when your teams spirits are high and when Chad had played fairly well in his only game.
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Pennington's interceptions have come at very bad times. Although, honestly, that is not at all the thing that's bothered me about him. It's the lack of points that the offense has been able to put up. I said this a while ago about the Buffalo game and it still rung true against Philly. Thomas Jones had 130 yards, the defense held them to 16 points and gave us 3 points off of a turnover, the offensive line had excellent pass protection. But where the hell were the points? We scored 9 last week and 3 of them came straight off of a turnover. That was one of the most frustrating games I've watched over the past few seasons. The eagles defense was able to completely squeeze the field to within 20 yards because of Chad. How can you honestly not watch this offense and believe that Chad is holding us back?

It's not just his shot arm that is holding the team back (though I would argue that it is somehow worse than last year). His decision making and 'qb intelligence' that he was so praised for back in '02 are simply no longer his strengths anymore. Now, perhaps it is a reflection of his limited physical abilities, that have made him so gun shy and unable to realize where he can throw the ball.
That was a nice post Zim, but these were the two big things for me so that's what I wanted to focus in on. The big problems for me are that Chad isn't putting points up on the board, which would make up for his picks, and his poor decision making. He is making some mistakes that he cannot afford to make out there. His decision making was a strength and allowed him to make up for his weaknesses and how it is another weakness, I just don't think he's got enough strengths to make up for his weaknesses at this point.

Also, I'm not convinced that Chad is going to have a good game against Cincy this week. The Bengals defense, though injury depleted (especially at the linebackers), is one that feeds off of turnovers. Their cornerbacks, especially Hall and O'Neal, have pretty good ball skills and are able to make some big plays. Plus they can sit on routes and take gambles because they won't get beat downfield. He MAY have a good game, but I could also see him having a very poor game. It's feast or famine for him this week IMO.
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Old 10-21-2007, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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I really cannot stand Chad anymore. Even if we win against Cinci, big deal, our season is almost definitely going nowhere unless something that not a soul could predict happens to this team. I would like to see what we have in Clemens. After the 4th quarter against the Ravens, I've wanted to see more of him. Chad is a smart qb, but its obvious his physical shortcomings really prevent him from being successful over the long haul.
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Old 10-21-2007, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3072940

Penny's on a short leash now. It's about time. Our season is essentially over and by now we may as well see what we have in Clemens as most have said. I love Chad, but at this point I don't see how much starting him does for the team right now.
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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When do we get to play the Dolphins again :(

And no, despite what any of you may suspect, I certainly don't fault this loss on Pennington despite the offenses struggles in the second half. Seriously, who the hell is Kenny Watson??? I'm in such utter horror from this loss that I can't even organize my thoughts enough to analyze this 'football team'.





That being said, it's Kellen time :D
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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I agree that this loss isn't entirely on chad, but again, we were in the redzone multiple times and only came away with FG's.

OH, and our D is god awful
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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I've gotten every pick right in Pick'Em this week, except the Jets game. I didn't get to see it but I heard Pennington was showing off his guns this week. 57 yard TD pass without at least 80% of it coming from YAC? Is that right eh? :)
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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I've gotten every pick right in Pick'Em this week, except the Jets game. I didn't get to see it but I heard Pennington was showing off his guns this week. 57 yard TD pass without at least 80% of it coming from YAC? Is that right eh? :)
The Jets just lost a game in one of the most painful ways possible and you include a smiley face in your post? ;) It's probably best that you didn't watch the game, or at least the second half. 28-3 we were outscored...

Better get your Chad compliments in while you can though, changes are a coming...
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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how about we put the blame on Brian Schottenheimer for this loss. Horrendous play calling in the 2nd half, we didnt take any shots down field, which worked brilliantly in the first half. My fear is that even if Kellen came in, itd be the same old conservative offense, which is terrible.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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The Jets just lost a game in one of the most painful ways possible and you include a smiley face in your post? ;) It's probably best that you didn't watch the game, or at least the second half. 28-3 we were outscored...

Better get your Chad compliments in while you can though, changes are a coming...
Your post above has a smiley, SURPRISINGLY next to Clemens names ;).

C. Pennington 20/31 272 Yards 3TD 1 INT - Pretty good game. I'm guessing as many of you have stated earlier, it wasn't Chad's fault they lost nor has it really been his fault this entire season in my opinion. But that is certainty debatable.

I am guessing the D could not stop Cinci at all in the second half, which is depressing, but not surprising.

How was the play calling this game? Anyone player shine / disappoint? Was Leon Hall covering Coles today? How did our OL look?
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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C. Pennington 20/31 272 Yards 3TD 1 INT - Pretty good game. I'm guessing as many of you have stated earlier, it wasn't Chad's fault they lost nor has it really been his fault this entire season in my opinion. But that is certainty debatable.
Chad's performance certainly varied by the half. I don't have the statistics on me but in the first half he went about 14/18 160 yards or so and 2 tds. The Jets are up by 10, Chad playing well against the Bengals defense and everything's looking up.

The second half was a complete and utter train wreck. For everyone. After scoring on the first five possessions, the offense suddenly stagnates. Chad's stats between the end of the half and the game ending pick were around 8/14 59 yards and that one interception. Obviously, this isn't ALL on Chad, the running game struggled and the pass protection had several holes at times, but to hold Chad blameless for the wreckage in the second half would just be ridiculous. (The rest of his stats, including the 3rd TD, came on the meaningless, final drive.)

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I am guessing the D could not stop Cinci at all in the second half, which is depressing, but not surprising.
Obviously. Bad defense against superstar offenses aren't fun to watch.
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How was the play calling this game?
The same as it's been every game. The offense doesn't go down field much. (Although they did do it once this game.) Pennington's success came mostly off of crossing routes over the middle of the field, hence Sean Ryan's success, and off of the short sideline throws. Of course, one of those got taken to the house by Jonathan Joseph.
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Was Leon Hall covering Coles today?
The bulk of Coles' yards came on 2 plays. The first was the 53 yard deep pass in which he slipped by the defensive backs with room to spare. I think Hall was in on that play though I have no idea what his assignment was or if he blew it. The second was just a dump off route that involved some hilarious missed tackles resulting in a touchdown. The limited camera angles make it tough to focus on who's covering who, but I do know that Joseph was covering coles when he made the pick...
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How did our OL look?
Excellent in the first half, but slowly regressing in the second half, with a few awful mistakes. Essentially, they were like every other facet of the team.
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Old 10-21-2007, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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A good read, goes through post game interviews and well you'll see. http://jets.lohudblogs.com/2007/10/2...ls-38-jets-31/
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Old 10-21-2007, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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My take on the QB situation:

In any position when the starter does not give you a chance to win now or have really good future potential and is learning his way he is no longer a good decision to be a starter. Chad doesn't have a good future with the Jets and he doesn't give us a good shot to win games. Yes some say giving Clemens the start may "throw the season away" but at least it we are preparing for the future seasons by starting him. I think it might be nice to see a Jets offense stretch the field and because of that we may even win some games. My opinion: Start Kellen Clemens!
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Old 10-21-2007, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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My take on the QB situation:

In any position when the starter does not give you a chance to win now or have really good future potential and is learning his way he is no longer a good decision to be a starter. Chad doesn't have a good future with the Jets and he doesn't give us a good shot to win games. Yes some say giving Clemens the start may "throw the season away" but at least it we are preparing for the future seasons by starting him. I think it might be nice to see a Jets offense stretch the field and because of that we may even win some games. My opinion: Start Kellen Clemens!
Giving reps to Clemens in order to prepare him woulden't make sense if we are (looking at your sig) drafting Woodson.
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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On the commment that when a QB doesnt play well enough to let you win...Watch a game or at least the 1st half...they had a 10 point lead!!!!!! thats putting a team in position...he didnt do it alone but he didnt lose the game either...Chad played well enough for the team to win, the playcalling was awful. 3-2 in the redzone and they call a fade in the endzone instead of picking up a 1st and getting a freshset of downs to mess with giving TJ a little more COME ON!

I find this telling about the PERCEPTION on Chad....Keyshawn Johnson and several other analysts said Jay Cutler will not win as long as this defense makes him play from beihind every game in the 2nd half. Remind you of anyone....Yet when it came time for Chad Pennington it was all on him and no mention of a defense that makes him and the offesne play from behind. As of now that's besides the point

Shottenheimer should be gone. We seem like we're alergic to he thing that got us places last year INNOVATION and creativity in play calling. The OL played to C+/B- grade in the 1st half and a C- grade in the second. ADRIEN CLARKE SUCKS!!!!! He rounds off his blocks and is the predominant reason we can't run to the left side...Brick is mediocre at best (not physical enough) and Clarke doesn't pick him up like Kendall did...Clement is awful in pass protection and inconsistent in the run game.

The DL may be the worst in football and after watching Vilma dogpile tackles and get annhilated by OLmen I realized if we're commited to running a 3-4 or even a 34 43 hybrid bullsh!t D he needs to be traded (I love him but if thats our way he can't be our MLB) Looking at yesterdays game a good trade might be to the Bengals for a 1st rounder-they run a 4-3 and are thin Schlegel starts for them. Again I love J Vilma and DA U LBs but I dont think anyone would say he fits anywhere in our system.

This team is bad... I can see a change at QB but I dont see why at this juncture...Chads MO may be to pick up his game against inferior opponents or excel in those situations but I think it was said best in the postgame press conference...If chad couldn't make all the throws or win these games why is the coaching staff putting him in to play..."it would be a detriment to the team" And a lot of you have been saying of course these guys (like LC) are going to stick up for Chad, but are downplaying the impact that will have on the team if he's benched...I hate comparing different sports but this is more locker room issues this situation is analogous to the Yankees situation with Joe Torre now that he's gone they may lose Jorge Mariano Pettite and if chad's benched after a loss where the defense dug the offense and more specifically the guy on the line Chad pennington a hole they couldn't get out of and LC has been mumbling about retiring what is that going to do for team morale and our WR core

If Pennington is benched after a start like that it will send mixed signals to the players just like the Kendall negotiations and then signing Moore to an extention and the front office will be outsmarting themselves. and be sending an awful message that if you as one player play poorly and deserve criticism and then respond to said criticism when "you're job is on the line" and can't carry the team and win then you'll be benched...Mangini is also about positive and negative reinforcement this would be so counterintuitive to bench a guy after a 111 QB rating and with 3 TD 1 INT performace (his second best of the season after his rating against the Patriots...so I wonder if the idea that he only plays well against inferior defenses HOLDS WATER) and an 88 QB rating for the season. How secure is Clemens going to feel. Yes Vinny Testaverde was playing okay in 2002 but his QB rating was 78 and had been in years past 75 69 and 78 respectively so he had a few years to suck and then get benched.

This situtaiton is awful for the team and I think blaming one guy is stupid, irresponsible and detrimental to the team. This season IS OVER for those who dont want to accept it. Why should we remove our QB when we dont penalize out NT for sucking or our MLB for not playing up to par or how about andre dyson our CB after he cant make a tackle a 3 year old can make. All of the criticisms are short sighted and based on double standards.

Evaluating the team as a whole: They suck and Id rather bench all our starters than one bc they are losing as a team and doing a damn good job of it.
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Old 10-22-2007, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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I havee been all for starting Kellen Clemens the last couple weeks, however I do understand after calming down a bit why you can't just bench chad.

It's not like baseball where you can have a guy hit .300 40 and 120 while knowing he's gonna be on a losing team, they can easily avoid injury. If you take chad out it seems as though you are essentially giving up on the season and you can't just tell these guys go beat each other up and risk serious injury every day to play for the following year. I understand that is why you couldn't take chad out, but I do feel if we start Kellen and win this coming weekened the team won't feel like they are playing for next year. Anyways i hope theres improvement as a whole team this weekend, becuase we need a solid consistent game.

edit. well you can't count those 40+ yds and 3rd td becuase they were pointless at the time and just a hailmary. And vilma was constantly rotating in an out of the game and not playing his entire every down. Erik coleman was benched for Abram, Andre dyson was benched; other players are getting reprimanded it isn't just chad.
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Old 10-22-2007, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Abrham looked good to me and he provides a lot of what Coleman doesnt....Ive never heard of him though...Though you have to admit even though theyre been rotated in and out its not bc theyre being repremanded and criticized in the press like the QB and they are playing much worse....Plus that argument is close to a moot point bc Mangini, even last year, played the rotating game with the defense as a whole, so it remains to be seen whether or not they are doing it as a punishment or to keep people fresh... Dyson was not benched after the Plaxico incident and he then proceeded to whiff on a tackle on Kevin Curtis...Thought he would be a good #2 forget I ever said that (I wish I never thought about it....I guess his foot injury proved worse than I expected)... Vilma 2 weeks ago broke a streak he had been carrying since last season of playing every play of every game...They realized when he came out they had better 34 ILBs in Harris and Barton, which is why you may have seen more of that package in your life, but they aren't being yanked and grabbed by the helmet and told they're on a short lease.....WHICH BY THE WAY was a farse (IMO) made up by Chris Mortensen or his source bc after the game Chad said he was "never told he was on a short leash and that doesn't even sound like coach Mangini so some people need to check their sources" Whatever the case...the team needs several changes and I think changing QBs at this juncture is a mistake, not bc it will mask poor play by other players but it would provide more inconsistency to a team that is struggling with it already and that is the last thing a rookie starter needs...It takes a good deal of time to develop QB WR relationships which is why Im all in favor of starting clemens bc he is the supposed future (ONLY after the bye week so he has plenty of time to prepare and get his confidence up and start somewhat gelling with someone other than stonehands mccareins) This is also providing it can be seen that the D can play well enough to squeek out a win and Chads orchestration of the offense is executed horribly when picked up by the rest of the team BC WE HAVE NOT SEEN THAT THIS YEAR... Yes our QB has struggled and is he a pro bowler no but is he THE reason they're losing...in the words of Lavernues Coles "No don't blame one guy we all stink"...Which even if he's sticking up for chad he's right they all are playing inconsistantly, flatly, poorly amongst other degrading adjectives.
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