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Old 11-22-2007, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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When all is said and done, where do u predict that the Jets will end up drafting? My honest opinion will be 6 to 8, so i'll take the nice number 7. I feel that the Jets can pass a few teams in the upcoming weeks.
I was thinking right around there; somewheres closer to 10 than to 1 in my mind. I'm a huge mickey mantle fan so i guess 7 sounds like a pretty sound number. But than again so does almost every single digit number from the yankees haha.
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Old 11-22-2007, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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5 at the worst

Im worried that we bailed on Chad who has lead the team to the playoffs several times for someone who may simply suck...The line was awful and he didnt have coles but Clemens played badly and made the same mistakes we benched chad for
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Old 11-22-2007, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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That was an ugly game. Clemens did not play well at all.
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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5 at the worst

Im worried that we bailed on Chad who has lead the team to the playoffs several times for someone who may simply suck...The line was awful and he didnt have coles but Clemens played badly and made the same mistakes we benched chad for
I'm not worried. Every time Clemens threw the ball down the field, I thought "Chad can't make that throw". Although to be fair, I'm giving Clemens a pass this season because

A. Its his first (partial) season starting
B. The Jets offensive line as a whole is simply terrible. The Jets need three (yes, three) new starters.
C. With Coles injured and out for who knows how long, the only legitimate target Clemens has is Jerricho Cotchery.
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Old 11-22-2007, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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That game was beyond ugly.

I feel much more confident with Clemens in there just thinking in the long term. Pennington simply wasn't getting the job done and the season was out of reach
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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I want to see what Clemens can do in a full season starting before we start picking him apart. I think he is going to a special player for us and someone we can build around.
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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Crickett if we need 3 new OL then why was Chad Pennington the scapegoat and blamed for the offensive struggles...Also, Chad might not be able to make those throws downfield but he can hit a fade pattern near the redzone. Also, what good is it throwing it downfield when you can't hit the completion, if he throws doqwnfield and no one catches it then its kind of a useless skill...The best pass Clemens threw was his pass to B Smith in the endzone where it got broken up. The Jets playcalling is bad and has moved away from check downs to RBs which put up more points than this current offense...Im not sayin I love dump passes but settling for a few yards is better than incompletions.

Also it would be better if you could explain which 3 OL positions we need to address if you say RG you know nothing about football period. Brandon Moore is solid, had a good day and is having a good season (when we ran on Pitt it was to the Right in between the tackles bc Clement sucks). Please explain, what you're saying I don't get it.

Yes I want to be critical now of Clemens. He is our "future" if he sucks then I'd like to know sooner rather than later .also, we're quick to give him praise when he does well but the criticism is years in the making Im not saying condemn him Im saying evaluate his reads his throws and his overall performance. Today it sucked and he hasn't put up any numbers for having such a great arm and quick release. If anything at 2-8 a team should be able to play loose and move the ball down the field with one or two big plays. I dont see that. i see the same sputtering in the offense.

And manoverboard WHY do you see Clemens being a special player for us? Your esoteric guarantee isn't really good enough for me. I want some hard evidence that disproves the fact that we changed a QB who had an 85+ QB rating and the 2nd highest career completion percentage of all time for a QB who has a Sub 60 QB rating and a 50% completion percentage. I like Clemens arm and he seems to be able to scramble every once in a while but his struggles look like more than growiing pains. Just bc he has a good arm doesn't mean he's a good QB there is evidence to say he does good things and I hope those end up trumping the very bad things I see but Clemens in his starts is making the same mistakes Pennington was making and he was nearly crucified. Clemens deserves SLACK not a PASS. I'll give him that the LG and RT positions need to be addressed, I'll give him that our best WR was out, I'll give him that our playcalling is ridiculously predictable. BUT I WONT GIVE HIM overthrowing WIDE OPEN recievers, Holding on to the ball way to long at times (although he scrambled well he has a tendency to hold on to the ball way too long) and I won't give him the benfit of the doubt when the defense doesn't give the game away like it was doing....It didnt play well but it wasnt nearly as bad as it was during penningtons tenure at QB. Clemens has not been the spark many have hoped for and I hope he becomes that, but I don't see it right now. And if he plays poorly against the Dolphins I don't know what to do.

Please explain to me why he's going to be special I want to see it. I jsut can't.
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Old 11-23-2007, 07:26 AM    (permalink
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5 at the worst

Im worried that we bailed on Chad who has lead the team to the playoffs several times for someone who may simply suck...The line was awful and he didnt have coles but Clemens played badly and made the same mistakes we benched chad for
We benched someone who sucked and held this team back for years for someone who may suck. Don't throw around the 'playoffs' excuse as if giving him credit for making this team better. I'll believe that when you actually give him blame for making the team worse. Honestly, if Chad had played that game, you would be defending him left and right and you know it. You just said it yourself: Chad made the same mistakes that a quarterback making his 4th start makes. See the difference? Chad has been starting games for six years, Clemens has for about 2 months.

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Crickett if we need 3 new OL then why was Chad Pennington the scapegoat and blamed for the offensive struggles...Also, Chad might not be able to make those throws downfield but he can hit a fade pattern near the redzone. Also, what good is it throwing it downfield when you can't hit the completion, if he throws doqwnfield and no one catches it then its kind of a useless skill...The best pass Clemens threw was his pass to B Smith in the endzone where it got broken up. The Jets playcalling is bad and has moved away from check downs to RBs which put up more points than this current offense...Im not sayin I love dump passes but settling for a few yards is better than incompletions.
Our o-line has had many games this year where they've played excellent. You keep throwing around this 'if Chad was in there, you'd be blaming him' excuse. You're doing the complete opposite: If chad was in there, you'd be defending him. Can't say the same for Clemens.

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And manoverboard WHY do you see Clemens being a special player for us? Your esoteric guarantee isn't really good enough for me. I want some hard evidence that disproves the fact that we changed a QB who had an 85+ QB rating and the 2nd highest career completion percentage of all time for a QB who has a Sub 60 QB rating and a 50% completion percentage. I like Clemens arm and he seems to be able to scramble every once in a while but his struggles look like more than growiing pains. Just bc he has a good arm doesn't mean he's a good QB there is evidence to say he does good things and I hope those end up trumping the very bad things I see but Clemens in his starts is making the same mistakes Pennington was making and he was nearly crucified. Clemens deserves SLACK not a PASS. I'll give him that the LG and RT positions need to be addressed, I'll give him that our best WR was out, I'll give him that our playcalling is ridiculously predictable. BUT I WONT GIVE HIM overthrowing WIDE OPEN recievers, Holding on to the ball way to long at times (although he scrambled well he has a tendency to hold on to the ball way too long) and I won't give him the benfit of the doubt when the defense doesn't give the game away like it was doing....It didnt play well but it wasnt nearly as bad as it was during penningtons tenure at QB. Clemens has not been the spark many have hoped for and I hope he becomes that, but I don't see it right now. And if he plays poorly against the Dolphins I don't know what to do.
Please.... you throw around completion percentage as if it was an actually argument for benching ineffective QB's. I guess it was hard to find statistics that proved he ran a successful offense. I found it hilarious that It took 3 minutes for Clemens to match the amount of touchdowns that Chad put up against the steelers in his entire career. It's ridiculous how Brien gets all of the blame for the loss against Pittsburgh but none of it goes to the quarterback that put up 3 points in over 4 quarters if football. I could go on and on about this but I honestly though that this board would give up arguing over Chad. He's gone; give it up.

May I ask what specific mistakes in Clemens game can't be attributed to growing pains? He sometimes will look straight at his receiver and lead a DB (or Terrence Newman) to an easy pick. But this is hardly the norm and the only person that would possibly say so is neglecting all of his starts and performances in favor of his worst one, and is so horribly biased that he honestly wouldn't be worth arguing with. Clemens has been surprisingly good at reading defensive backs this year and not making idiotic throws. Of course he's going to completely screw up and give up easy plays, it's his 4th start.

Yes, there are times when he will have a mechanical breakdown and throw off of his back foot, but I fail to see how this is some type of unmistakable flaw that will hold him back forever.

And give me a break about you not specifically criticizing Clemens. You never criticized Chad no matter how poorly he played.
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Old 11-23-2007, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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Crickett if we need 3 new OL then why was Chad Pennington the scapegoat and blamed for the offensive struggles...Also, Chad might not be able to make those throws downfield but he can hit a fade pattern near the redzone. Also, what good is it throwing it downfield when you can't hit the completion, if he throws doqwnfield and no one catches it then its kind of a useless skill...The best pass Clemens threw was his pass to B Smith in the endzone where it got broken up. The Jets playcalling is bad and has moved away from check downs to RBs which put up more points than this current offense...Im not sayin I love dump passes but settling for a few yards is better than incompletions.

Also it would be better if you could explain which 3 OL positions we need to address if you say RG you know nothing about football period. Brandon Moore is solid, had a good day and is having a good season (when we ran on Pitt it was to the Right in between the tackles bc Clement sucks). Please explain, what you're saying I don't get it.

Yes I want to be critical now of Clemens. He is our "future" if he sucks then I'd like to know sooner rather than later .also, we're quick to give him praise when he does well but the criticism is years in the making Im not saying condemn him Im saying evaluate his reads his throws and his overall performance. Today it sucked and he hasn't put up any numbers for having such a great arm and quick release. If anything at 2-8 a team should be able to play loose and move the ball down the field with one or two big plays. I dont see that. i see the same sputtering in the offense.

And manoverboard WHY do you see Clemens being a special player for us? Your esoteric guarantee isn't really good enough for me. I want some hard evidence that disproves the fact that we changed a QB who had an 85+ QB rating and the 2nd highest career completion percentage of all time for a QB who has a Sub 60 QB rating and a 50% completion percentage. I like Clemens arm and he seems to be able to scramble every once in a while but his struggles look like more than growiing pains. Just bc he has a good arm doesn't mean he's a good QB there is evidence to say he does good things and I hope those end up trumping the very bad things I see but Clemens in his starts is making the same mistakes Pennington was making and he was nearly crucified. Clemens deserves SLACK not a PASS. I'll give him that the LG and RT positions need to be addressed, I'll give him that our best WR was out, I'll give him that our playcalling is ridiculously predictable. BUT I WONT GIVE HIM overthrowing WIDE OPEN recievers, Holding on to the ball way to long at times (although he scrambled well he has a tendency to hold on to the ball way too long) and I won't give him the benfit of the doubt when the defense doesn't give the game away like it was doing....It didnt play well but it wasnt nearly as bad as it was during penningtons tenure at QB. Clemens has not been the spark many have hoped for and I hope he becomes that, but I don't see it right now. And if he plays poorly against the Dolphins I don't know what to do.

Please explain to me why he's going to be special I want to see it. I jsut can't.
To summarize things the biggest difference between Chad and Clemens this year is that in the 4th quarter Clemens has led the team on game-tying/game-winning drives and Chad did not. They still both kinda manage the game for the most part but Clemens has made the clutch plays Chad didn't. That's promising when you look at Clemens because he's already showing excellent poise and moxy for such a young starter and, because of his inexperience, there's reason to believe that his consistancy for the entire game will improve. Chad has been in the league for what 8 seasons or so, and Clemens in his first year starting is playing better than he was. I don't see the problem here.
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Yes I was defending Chad bc he was not the problem...But Clemens has not been the answer. If everyone wanted a Qb change and that was going to bring AT THE VERY LEAST A SPARK to a sputtering offense why hasn't it...IN the Steelers game we still settled for FGs. ZIM you are probably one of the people who cheered when Chad got hurt and that's fine, but I'm telling you Chad Pennington was not the problem with this team THAT WAS MY POINT! He's gone YES but I think with Clemens lack of production and SPARK with this offense which a big armed young QB was supposed to do you have to question how much deeper these problems go and BC CHAD IS GONE we have to say is the QB position one we need to monitor more closely?

I will defend Chad Pennington as a good QB and I'm pretty sure he'll show that next season somewhere in the NFC North. Bill Walsh said the most overated thing about a QB is arm strength and I think a lot of people might have fallen into that trap with Clemens over Pennington argument. He missed wide open recievers in every game he's played in this season (even when there hasn't been pressure) THE JOB OF A QB IS TO THROW THE BALL TO A WR thats the more than growing pains problems I was talking about.

I like Clemens potential I just don't think he's ready now. That';s what i said before and mostly why I was defending similar poor play from Pennington.

Also the reason Clemens succeeds in the 4th unlike Pennington is bc the teams dropp back into prevent type Ds. Pennington they could stay short but Clemens hasn't showed he could play 4 quarters of good football yet. Only 4th quarters. Pennington we all knew and check my old posts I said it is not a QB who can come backl from big defecits at the end of games PRESSING is not his strong suit and you know what being good at pressing on occasion is okay bhut Clemens has showed he can pickj apart a deep zone which SHOULD BE EASY. Im worried bc I want to see him manage the game and put up TDs bc then you he will be worth the switch until then we have a rookie QB and a forfeited season.

Im not DOWN on Clemens Ive become MORE SKEPTICAL with his touted potential which was a blinding light for many who thought he was going to be the next Brett Favre. Now potetnial has turned into play and production and that light is no longer blinding and I can see the real thing a little better.
I still have hope but less than before.
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Old 11-23-2007, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Yes I was defending Chad bc he was not the problem...But Clemens has not been the answer. If everyone wanted a Qb change and that was going to bring AT THE VERY LEAST A SPARK to a sputtering offense why hasn't it...IN the Steelers game we still settled for FGs. ZIM you are probably one of the people who cheered when Chad got hurt and that's fine, but I'm telling you Chad Pennington was not the problem with this team THAT WAS MY POINT! He's gone YES but I think with Clemens lack of production and SPARK with this offense which a big armed young QB was supposed to do you have to question how much deeper these problems go and BC CHAD IS GONE we have to say is the QB position one we need to monitor more closely?

I will defend Chad Pennington as a good QB and I'm pretty sure he'll show that next season somewhere in the NFC North. Bill Walsh said the most overated thing about a QB is arm strength and I think a lot of people might have fallen into that trap with Clemens over Pennington argument. He missed wide open recievers in every game he's played in this season (even when there hasn't been pressure) THE JOB OF A QB IS TO THROW THE BALL TO A WR thats the more than growing pains problems I was talking about.

I like Clemens potential I just don't think he's ready now. That';s what i said before and mostly why I was defending similar poor play from Pennington.

Also the reason Clemens succeeds in the 4th unlike Pennington is bc the teams dropp back into prevent type Ds. Pennington they could stay short but Clemens hasn't showed he could play 4 quarters of good football yet. Only 4th quarters. Pennington we all knew and check my old posts I said it is not a QB who can come backl from big defecits at the end of games PRESSING is not his strong suit and you know what being good at pressing on occasion is okay bhut Clemens has showed he can pickj apart a deep zone which SHOULD BE EASY. Im worried bc I want to see him manage the game and put up TDs bc then you he will be worth the switch until then we have a rookie QB and a forfeited season.

Im not DOWN on Clemens Ive become MORE SKEPTICAL with his touted potential which was a blinding light for many who thought he was going to be the next Brett Favre. Now potetnial has turned into play and production and that light is no longer blinding and I can see the real thing a little better.
I still have hope but less than before.
I don't think Washington or Pittsburg were in prevent defenses when he made combacks against them. If they were when they were only up by a FG then I don't know what to say about their football intelligence. Again, Clemens has done pretty much what Pennington was doing but the key difference being that he has brought the team back in the 4th quarter when Chad did not.
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Old 11-23-2007, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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I still think some of it can be (hopefully) attributed to getting used to the new type of ball being thrown. Clemens throw a much harder ball and it can take some getting used to from chads ball. Mccareins should have no excuse and has just flat our dropped numerous catchable balls in both games. For every overthrown ball clemens had there was a dropped catch by one of our recievers. The only sure handed reciever right now is Chris baker, who we finally are throwing the ball to more.

And for every overthrown ball clemens has made chad has equal number of balls underthrown. Now, I am one to admit that even tho balls were going downfield they weren't always on target. But, it is the job of the reciever to go and get it and not drop it.

I admit pennington wasn't the problem, but he was less of an answer for THIS team than clemens. Maybe he could shine on another team, but with this supporting cast i feel we were worse off with him than with clemens. Theres really no point in this one anymore cause hes gone, but we still have a few more games in the year to monitor clemens and figure out our needs.

I think we should start ranking what we feel is the most important; kinda like the halfway mock in the mock forum, but for which we feel is the most important need. We can than go for value in how we want the order to go.
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Old 11-23-2007, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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okay, lets say that Pennington wasn't the problem (he wasn't the only problem but IMO one of the problems). Was he a part of the solution? Probably not. Do we keep him in there for the year or two until that problem may be fixed? i don't think so. Why not see what Clemens has and let him learn by playing. Clemens has played at least as well as Pennington did when he was in and has shown 10x more 4th Q moxy and determination than Pennington did. Drops have hurt, and not having Coles doesn't make you look any better. Clemens has made mistakes, what do you expect. How can you say that he made the same mistake Pennington did and think that says anything. Pennington is at his ceiling, he is a vet that shouldn't be making those mistakes! Clemens is in his 4th start and learns by playing......your case on that holds no value to me.

It's obvious that this team has problems that need fixing. Do we put everything on Clemens on a loss to a top team? I don't, although he sure didn't play very good. Do you really think that Pennington would have made it a close game? don't make me laugh. Clemens had a poor completion percentage, so do you think penny going in completing 70% of his passes on dump-passes would have helped? The D would have adapted just like they had all season and picked him off on an out to cancel it out.

You ask if Clemens is the answer. What is 'the answer'. Did you expect him to come in and completely turn this team around? Lead us to numerous victories? Playoffs maybe? I'd hope not. Letting him play this season isn't doing any harm and is the correct thing to do to adequately see what needs have to be addressed and what you have for the future. Having Pennington in there wouldn't really do any of that, so i'm not sure why you are harping on Pennington. If he goes to another team next year i hope he does great things, wins games, and shows he's not done. Do i ever envision him being a SB Champion? Not a chance. He's not that type of QB. He could be a decent QB with a great D, but even those teams won't beat the current Pats so good luck.

I just find the whole debate about Penny vs Clemens to be useless and don't see any advantage to it. Penny couldn't get the job done. Whether or not he may have played better than Clemens (questionable) doesn't really matter because it wouldn't benefit the team as a whole in the short or long term
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Old 11-24-2007, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Crickett if we need 3 new OL then why was Chad Pennington the scapegoat and blamed for the offensive struggles...
Also, Chad might not be able to make those throws downfield but he can hit a fade pattern near the redzone. Also, what good is it throwing it downfield when you can't hit the completion, if he throws doqwnfield and no one catches it then its kind of a useless skill...The best pass Clemens threw was his pass to B Smith in the endzone where it got broken up. The Jets playcalling is bad and has moved away from check downs to RBs which put up more points than this current offense...Im not sayin I love dump passes but settling for a few yards is better than incompletions.
If Pennington was blamed, it was because
A. He can't get the ball down the field.
B. For someone who's game really depended on pinpoint accuracy, he certainly threw some really bad INT's.
C. He's got a 60+ million dollar contract and for that kind of money, you better be playing at a pro bowl level.
D. He's the quarterback and the quarterback always gets too much credit/blame.

As for who gets the blame, I dunno, I've heard a lot of people here (including myself) blaming the OL and DL pretty heavily for the entire season. Pennington isn't responsible for not being able to stop the Bengals fourth string running back from running hog wild all over the Jets defense.

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Also it would be better if you could explain which 3 OL positions we need to address if you say RG you know nothing about football period. Brandon Moore is solid, had a good day and is having a good season (when we ran on Pitt it was to the Right in between the tackles bc Clement sucks). Please explain, what you're saying I don't get it.
Then I guess I know nothing about football. It wouldn't be the first time this month I've been told that on this forum. But when I see the right side of the Jets offensive line fold like an accordian, I figure its the fault of the RT AND RG.

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Yes I want to be critical now of Clemens. He is our "future" if he sucks then I'd like to know sooner rather than later .also, we're quick to give him praise when he does well but the criticism is years in the making Im not saying condemn him Im saying evaluate his reads his throws and his overall performance. Today it sucked and he hasn't put up any numbers for having such a great arm and quick release. If anything at 2-8 a team should be able to play loose and move the ball down the field with one or two big plays. I dont see that. i see the same sputtering in the offense.
As I said before, one of the reasons I'm giving Clemens a pass is because aside from Cotchery who is not a "big play guy" or a "#1 receiver", who does Clemens have to throw to? Compared to the Jets offense of the past few years, they are playing loose and quick. So loose that the ball falls right out of the receivers hands.
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Old 11-24-2007, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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It will be interesting to see how the front office views Clemens at the end of this year. It is pretty much common knowledge that Chad wasn't benched because it was his fault they were losing games, but because playoffs were out of reach and wanted to see if Clemens can potentially be our QB in the future.

Will the front office want to draft another QB if they feel Clemens has not shown enough potential? I don't think it is out of the question that Pennington could be starting again in 08 or even beat out the rest of our QB's in TC assuming he is still with us next year.
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Old 11-24-2007, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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David Harris is a beast. And kudos to Revis, who did an admirable job on Owens for 3.8 quarters. Revis is gonna be a great player.

As for Clemens, relax guys. Let him learn. Its the only way. Youre gonna see games like this. But its better he gets his lumps now, during a season thats already done, then next year when theres hope again for a good record.

But this David Harris is really impressing me. He's built for this defense. You guys desperately need an NT though. Seeing Robertson playing the nose is an eyesore. Even on passing downs, I saw him get pushed backwards. How the hell does that happen?
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Old 11-24-2007, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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As for Clemens, relax guys. Let him learn. Its the only way. Youre gonna see games like this. But its better he gets his lumps now, during a season thats already done, then next year when theres hope again for a good record.
I really don't see it in Clemens. I said it when we drafted him, I said it through the preseason, and I'm still saying it now.

But we don't have any other choice for the next 6 games, and we'll learn a lot about him over that time.
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Old 11-25-2007, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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I just had a hge post deleted Im now saddened and angered...
Vilma:
-There is no such thing as a Superbowl QB (Explain Dilfer and Johnson) ITS A TEAM GAME AND THE PATRIOTS ARE PROVING IT RIGHT NOW
-I never said Clemens was going to win games I was saying he at the very least should have provided SOME SPARK to the offense on his own and he hasn't in order to "EARN" this opportunity as Mangini has said (read my post again I never said he needs to win, just play well and he hasn't which says to me people were too quick to BLAME Chad Pennington and scape Goat himn say HE CAN'T GET IT DONE...NO ONE MAN WINS FOOTBALL GAMES Clemens included, but my point has been Clemens doesn't play better than Pennington and is making mistakes we attributed to Pennington's arm strength, but Clemens has ample velocity...Explain that. Seriously though read my post again you're attacking me bc I've kept the same position that Clemens wouldn't help the team that much and Pennington and Clemens would have the same struggles bc the overall team isnt great, but I retracted my thought that Clemens will be a spark and a new type of player that can show a glimpse of some good new things we could do, bc he hasn't and that is not a lot to ask bc even if hes pressured there should be a good deal of plays where one says WOW thats our future, I might have said what a bomb arm look at the rainbow pass and it was an incompletion that is worse for me than a short pass to LC or JC where they get YAC and 8 yards.)

Onto the SUBJ of the Jets and off of the switch from Pennington to Clemens...
DROB has shown he is a good DT IN A 43 hes a pass rushing DT not a NT but I think theyll see how he plays with 2 big DEs next to him next year should they draft Moore or someone like him. And with a legit pass rusher liek Groves or the like the DEs may get Doubled more than DROB which could help...I think he could be good and with a DE like moore and a OLB like Groves he could do what he excels at...getting in the backfield bc others will be tied up.
I like that Tommy Blake is back in the mix he could be a steal at a 2nd or 3rd rd pick also Okam is showing he fits the mold of a 34 DE hes tall big and gets after the QB he's rackignup sacks.

Offense is aenemic and that includes but is not limited to the play of Clemens ( who I see potential in but really need to see it translate to strings of plays not against a soft deep shell). We have no gamebreakers even when Coles is in there (dont bring up the PITT game and 56 yrd completion it was a trick play flea flicker)
I think each week it shows we need a big Adarius Bowman reciever. To diversify our attack...the LINE NEEDS TO BE BETTER TO HELP THE RUN GAME WHICH WOULD HELP THE PASSING GAME BUT A BIG WR WOULD HELP IT EVEN FURTHER. (sorry just realized caps on for a long time not retyping it see the first statement i wrote) Maybe Sweed in the mid to late 2nd if we decide to go higher priority in the 1st.
-Groves
-Cherildus
-Moore
-Sweed
-Scheuning

I think they all could start problem is we need 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders and Scheuning to fall...I also think we could settle for a guy like Eric Young coming off an injury but we could also look at switching a Center like Mike Pollack from Arizona State to G. He reminds me a lot of Kendall and I think he's a great player...He dominates DTs like Mangold used to dominate Gabe Watson from Michigan.

Other names to watch for OL
-Jeff Otah (Could play T or G but could be an option if we go else where in the 1st I think hes a good 2nd rd talent. BIG TOO)
-Heath Benedict (wary bc of small school like Bender but first guy ever from his school to be invited to the senior bowl)
-Robert Felton (He's big and agile and plays multiple positions wo hesistation...I like him,and think he fits our mold, 3-4 rd but I want to get a guy we really know can start and own LG position)

Underclassmen OGs to watch: Duke Robinson, Steve Rehring
Bad OG class this year we need one of these two IMO. I would LOVE Duke Robinson.
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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Clemens included, but my point has been Clemens doesn't play better than Pennington and is making mistakes we attributed to Pennington's arm strength, but Clemens has ample velocity...Explain that.
[announcer voice]And another dropped pass by the great Justin McCareins.[/announcer voice] With Coles out, the Jets receiving core is clearly bottom five, possibly bottom three.


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I might have said what a bomb arm look at the rainbow pass and it was an incompletion that is worse for me than a short pass to LC or JC where they get YAC and 8 yards.)
To me, it's better than three consecutive completions for -2 yards followed by a punt on 4th and 12. At least the Jets have the threat of the deep ball. Even if there is nobody on the team who can catch it......


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I think each week it shows we need a big Adarius Bowman reciever. To diversify our attack...the LINE NEEDS TO BE BETTER TO HELP THE RUN GAME WHICH WOULD HELP THE PASSING GAME BUT A BIG WR WOULD HELP IT EVEN FURTHER. (sorry just realized caps on for a long time not retyping it see the first statement i wrote) Maybe Sweed in the mid to late 2nd if we decide to go higher priority in the 1st.
-Groves
-Cherildus
-Moore
-Sweed
-Scheuning

I think they all could start problem is we need 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders and Scheuning to fall...I also think we could settle for a guy like Eric Young coming off an injury but we could also look at switching a Center like Mike Pollack from Arizona State to G. He reminds me a lot of Kendall and I think he's a great player...He dominates DTs like Mangold used to dominate Gabe Watson from Michigan.
Completely agree with this. But as you said, the Jets only have one first and one second and the needs at OL, DL and OLB are probably more pressing than WR. Not to mention they could end up drafting an undersized 3-4 DE or a running back in the first who don't fill any of those needs. For the longest time, I didn't think the Jets needed a wide receiver at all. But watching the team without Laveranues Coles has taught me the error of my thinking.
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Old 11-25-2007, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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something i was thinkin about today...i see a lot of people, including myself, assuming we will be getting some sort of draft pick out of chad. I think teams will definately want him, but if they think we are more likely going to cut him than keep his big salary will they be willing to trade away any draft picks???
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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something i was thinkin about today...i see a lot of people, including myself, assuming we will be getting some sort of draft pick out of chad.

I see that a lot regarding just about everyone. We'll get a draft pick by trading DeWayne. We'll get one trading Justin McCareins. We'll get a draft pick trading Chad Pennington.

Says who? What draft pick did Jacksonville get for Byron Leftwich? What draft pick the Patriots get for Reche Caldwell? None, they were simply cut.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:59 AM    (permalink
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Mangini is a stubborn bastard as can be seen with Kendall...He would rather drag Chad through training camp and trade him then than cut him for nothing and in case you all forgot Chad's contract is laden with Incentives, where he restructured before last season.

Also, its speculation in a forum get over it we also speculate on who were gonna draft were almost always wrong so isnt it the point.

I think he gets traded bc of experience and value despite his arm. Cutting him looks stupid then whos our backup TUI. Why not keep a formerly injured backup with a lot of experience hes not gonna get hurt on the bench unless the winds at the meadowlands blow too hard.

It makes no sense to cut a vet QB when a lot of team will need one Miami traded a 4th rounder for a 37 year old concusiion prone QB whoreally never performed to help his team to the playoffs a lot especially not recently. Think about it more.
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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I mentioned I beleived we will get a pick out of him solely for that reason, I was just thinking about it becuase it was mentioned in one of the jets beat writers articles (one of them on msg.com not sure which one). I hope when mangini brings his types of players in they will love him and play hard for him. I hate the idea of players not wanting to play for their coach; i love how any of the colts would kill for tony dungy.

Regardless, a little other news on the forefront.

"Jets claimed DE Kareem Brown off waivers from the Patriots.
Baltimore and San Francisco also put claims in for the fourth-round pick out of Miami. Brown can play inside in a 4-3 and outside in a 3-4, so Eric Mangini could get more than just inside information about the Pats from him."

I know the pats have two great DE's already, but was he not a servicable backup? If baltimore and San Fran put claims on him, he must have some sort of ability to play in the 3-4. We'll see.


Here is a scouting report for Brown last year;
The good: Brown is a strong, wide-bodied tackle with good size, mobility and power that translates well to the playing field. He has good initial quickness that allows him to penetrate the backfield and fill the holes against the run. He has very large, long arms and is a solid physical specimen. He is a well-built lineman with natural skills to rank him among the upper echelon of prospects.

The bad: He has been inconsistent on the field. Early in his career he lacked discipline and play recognition. He turned up the volume late in his career, and that has drawn the attention of some scouts.

Outlook: He improved late in his career, and that will probably earn him a second-day draft selection. He may be a hidden gem in this class, especially if he is selected in the fourth round or later. He has the talent to start, and he may do so earlier in his career than most believe. He is a marginal top-120 player on our board. He is an excellent gamble with potential.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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I would still much rather prefer Gholston if we are looking at Long to be an OLB. Gholston's production/measurables/speed are all freakish. Plus, he already has experience dropping back into coverage.


Edit: After watching Terrell Suggs play this past weekend, it has never been more apparent how dire our situation at OLB really is. Thomas and Hobson are JAG's to the fullest extent. A true pass rushing OLB would improve this defense tremendously......I want Gholston

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Old 11-29-2007, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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I think another discussion we should have is if we are drafting 4 and later and lets just say that McFadden, Long and Long are all gone who do we look at. It seems trading down would be ideal, but what team would trade up for who?
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