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Old 12-26-2007, 02:35 PM    (permalink
derza222
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Whats wrong with Haynesworth and Berrian?
My question is what's so great about Suggs? He's had an awful season and has a far better supporting cast than he's had here. Beyond that there are a few solid OLB prospects this year in the draft. Why don't we target offensive line in FA? If there's any place we need veteran help, that's it. We're doing a good job building our defense through the draft, I really don't see why we'd concentrate on that in FA it's our offense we need some vets. Haynesworth will probably slack off once he gets his contract, and Berrian isn't great but the WR crop is poor this year so he's probably going to get signed for way more than he's worth. Beyond that, our starters are fine and if we sign Berrian it's a sign we may get rid of Coles which would be disappointing. And if he's a #3 that's nice but we'd better not sign him for too much.
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Old 12-26-2007, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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My question is what's so great about Suggs? He's had an awful season and has a far better supporting cast than he's had here. Beyond that there are a few solid OLB prospects this year in the draft. Why don't we target offensive line in FA? If there's any place we need veteran help, that's it. We're doing a good job building our defense through the draft, I really don't see why we'd concentrate on that in FA it's our offense we need some vets. Haynesworth will probably slack off once he gets his contract, and Berrian isn't great but the WR crop is poor this year so he's probably going to get signed for way more than he's worth. Beyond that, our starters are fine and if we sign Berrian it's a sign we may get rid of Coles which would be disappointing. And if he's a #3 that's nice but we'd better not sign him for too much.
I think Suggs is a great player. Great for a 3-4. Can play the run, rush the passer, and play coverage. He is a great player and will help any teams defence. Haynesworth, IMO, is a top five DT in football. Berrian is a deep threat and can score anytime he touches the ball. He will help that woeful offense immediately.
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Old 12-26-2007, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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I like Terrell Suggs and think he is a hell of a player, but right now my dream is to get vernon gholston. If we get gholston and sign him to top 10 money, i don't think another OLB is the way to go.

Albert Haynesworth would be a fantastic pick. I understand the worries of his injuries or that it is his contract year, but when he plays he is an easy top 5 DT in this league. I think he could play well at NT or thrive at DE in our 34; He is too tall to be your prototypical NT, but he can do anything wilfork or hampton can do. He can take on a double team, collapse the pocket and rush the passer even with two guys on him. Or we could keep Drob as our NT and allow Fat Al to eat up the double teams as our DE, which would allow Drob more one on ones that will utilize is speed and penetration abilities. I personally don't see how he could get away from the titans, either long term contract or franchise tag him, but i definately don't think he would be a liability.

As for berrian, i think it depends on the money and what we do with coles and our recievers. Berrian has phenomenal speed and tremendous big play ability that we could use to stretch the field, which would allow cotchery and coles to make their living underneath. Jmac was supposed to be our deep threat, but consistently proved to us to be the antithesis of a football player. If shotty actually develops an offensive system that suites Clemens and not chad, i think berrian would be a great weapon. People would finally have to honor the deep ball (once clemens completes a few of them that is) and that will most certainly open up the shorter routes for cotchery, coles and baker.

So i guess i would be happy with the addition of berrian (depending on the money) and extremely happy with haynesworth. I still want to see a Stacy Andrews, Jake Scott or Jordan Gross added as well.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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Whats wrong with Haynesworth and Berrian?
Whats wrong with Haynesworth?

1. Up until this year, he's been above average at best. Now this year, which is coincidentally his contract year, suddenly he's DPOY material. This reminds me heavily of Muhsim Muhammad in a bad way. He seems like the guy the team I root for (I say that, cuz it happens in all sports to all teams I happen to be rooting for at the time) always signs and never lives up to the contract.

2. "The team has needed a 3-4 nose for two years now, and Haynesworth could fit the bill." This is wrong in so many ways. Not only would sticking Haynesworth at nose be a waste of his talents should they be anything more than iron pyrite, but he's not a fit for the nose at all. 3-4 defensive end maybe, but not nose tackle.

3. Andre Gurode's face.

What's wrong with Bernard Berrian?

He's a wide receiver for the Chicago Bears.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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i would love to pick up suggs. he is a proven fantastic player and as amazing as gholston seems, we have so many needs, that picking up suggs would solve one of them an allow us to get an impact player at another position.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Suggs- If we can get him at a bargain price, great. Fantastic. I'd love it. Baltimore hasn't used him well this year, I'll give you that. But Suggs was a great player on a great defense with a great supporting cast. All of a sudden his supporting cast gets worse, the defense suffers, and he has a an off season. So a guy who has had 12, 10.5, 8, and 9.5 sacks a season all of a sudden has 5 this year. I understand we're not going to be paying him like a guy that gets 5 sacks a year, but are we going to give a guy coming off possibly a 5 sack season top money? You pay a player for what they are or what they will be, not what they did, and the fact that his supporting cast slipped this season and all of a sudden his production slips as well worries me. I understand he's a good player and a great fit for our defense, but lets see what kind of money he's going to command before saying we want him.

Haynesworth- Crickett hit it on the head. Huge risk there for a guy that's going to get a massive contract somewhere, and I'd definitely be far more comfortable with him at DE than NT.

Berrian- BroadwayJoe10 hit it on the head. Great add for the right money and a nice fit, but are we going to really pay a #3 starters money? And if we don't, why would he come here when he could get it elsewhere?
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Old 12-27-2007, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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The Jets' list of 2008 opponents has been solidified. In addition to the six home-and-home division games, they will play at Oakland, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle and Tennessee. They'll also host Denver, Kansas City, Arizona, St. Louis and Cincinnati
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Old 12-27-2007, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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FA news: isnt too much news, look back we've been mentioning those guys since week 2. I wouldnt mind Haynesworth at DE. Suggs underperformed and would be an upgrade but at what price? And Berrian NO I want a 63+ reciever who can jump like crazy not a 61 speedster who is the clone of jerricho cotchery wo as much YAC ability.
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Old 12-27-2007, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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A major sports news outlet has added some validity to our Cheifs Jets trade rumor...
One team that will be interested in Pennington if he is released or put on the trade market is Kansas City, which desperately needs a veteran presence, according to L** P**********. Chiefs coach Herm Edwards worked with Pennington in New York and the two have respect for each other and know what they are getting.

Maybe Coles wont be involved but it's beginning to look like Pennington has suitors Chiefs Vikings Bears (trade bait, 2nd rounder? Thoughts?)

3 POSTS IN A ROW SORRY, BUT THEY WERE 4 HOURS APART...LETS GET SOME ACTIVITY.
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Old 12-27-2007, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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No chance in hell Pennington fetches anything more than a 3rd. Even that I think is still pushing it, i believe he'll get traded for a high 4th.
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Old 12-27-2007, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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A major sports news outlet has added some validity to our Cheifs Jets trade rumor...
One team that will be interested in Pennington if he is released or put on the trade market is Kansas City, which desperately needs a veteran presence, according to L** P**********. Chiefs coach Herm Edwards worked with Pennington in New York and the two have respect for each other and know what they are getting.

Maybe Coles wont be involved but it's beginning to look like Pennington has suitors Chiefs Vikings Bears (trade bait, 2nd rounder? Thoughts?)

3 POSTS IN A ROW SORRY, BUT THEY WERE 4 HOURS APART...LETS GET SOME ACTIVITY.
Which news outlet?
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Old 12-27-2007, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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I was told via PM I'm not allowed to post sources or direct quotes from private sources anymore bc unless the information is AP it's not supposed to be put out, but whatever it doesn't matter if they take rep... E$PN In it was Len Pasquerelli

Also Genome your opinion I think is off...What did a 37 year old Trent Green w/ SEVERE Concussion problems go for last season when the team had what mnay thought to be a formitable starter Damon Huard...4th rounder. Pennington 31 who has been injured (but in freak accidents as well as unfavorable bends bc of a lack of Blindside protection) has more upside and years left than Trent Green did last year, will garner more than that. And the Jets QB situation is so questionbable they can hold the line that they need him as a starter thus driving his price up. late 2nd to 3rd. Assuming Derek Anderson is resigned, who is a better QB in FA or on the block? Certain teams have a demand for QB we have one of if not conisdered the best of a short supply and the price could understandably be higher. I think you're overlooking the recent precedents in terms of trades.
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Old 12-27-2007, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Okay, sorry about that. Again though, I'll believe it when I see it.
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Old 12-27-2007, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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Agreed, its just adding some discussion for now and it makes for a good storyline heading into Sunday.
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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Definitely adds a little validity, but I'd also definitely rather get what we can for Pennington and keep Coles. We have enough holes as it is right now without needing to replace our most reliable wideout and a leader on this team. I just don't want it to cause problems with Clemens' development which is apparently what we're focused on right now. A wideout like Coles is invaluable for a young QB IMO.

Also, there's a little Vilma/Rodgers deal discussion in the Lions forum, hasn't really gotten going yet but its worth checking out.
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Old 12-28-2007, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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Also, there's a little Vilma/Rodgers deal discussion in the Lions forum, hasn't really gotten going yet but its worth checking out.
No, it doesn't seem worth checking out at all.

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Maybe before Vilma's injury we would've done that.. but not now.
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Exactly. Before? Hell yeah. Now? Not worth a day 1 pick.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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No, it doesn't seem worth checking out at all.
Interesting. Maybe the Lions fans don't want it to happen, but it's known that Rodgers wants out so they have little to no leverage for it. I'm beginning to wonder if we're going to deal Vilma though, because his value is just so low it seems like he's only going to get a 2nd or 3rd rounder back.
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Interesting. Maybe the Lions fans don't want it to happen, but it's known that Rodgers wants out so they have little to no leverage for it. I'm beginning to wonder if we're going to deal Vilma though, because his value is just so low it seems like he's only going to get a 2nd or 3rd rounder back.
I wouldn't be so sure about his value. His value is only valued/undervalued by guys (even kids) who have no affiliation with either the lions or jets. Now, i'm not saying we have any affiliation other than being fans just like them, but there is a reason why those people in the FO make the decisions. And that is because they know things we do not. The only thing we know about vilma's knee is that it wasn't a microfracture surgery, which is a great thing, so other than that we have no idea what it is. For all we know he could come back stronger and than his value should be a first. But as far as the talk of lions fans saying they wouldn't give a 3rd or even 4th for vilma is just ridiculous, because they are basing it on the idea that he will be innafective for the next couple of years. I have a feeling that if we move vilma it will be becuase he is healthy and we can get good value for him.
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't be so sure about his value. His value is only valued/undervalued by guys (even kids) who have no affiliation with either the lions or jets. Now, i'm not saying we have any affiliation other than being fans just like them, but there is a reason why those people in the FO make the decisions. And that is because they know things we do not. The only thing we know about vilma's knee is that it wasn't a microfracture surgery, which is a great thing, so other than that we have no idea what it is. For all we know he could come back stronger and than his value should be a first. But as far as the talk of lions fans saying they wouldn't give a 3rd or even 4th for vilma is just ridiculous, because they are basing it on the idea that he will be innafective for the next couple of years. I have a feeling that if we move vilma it will be becuase he is healthy and we can get good value for him.
I guess, we can only really speculate at this point. However, I wouldn't trade him for anything less than an early second, and that's probably even stretching it a bit. At this point if we're getting less than that we're probably better off seeing what he can do next to Harris and possibly with an actual defensive line.
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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I guess, we can only really speculate at this point. However, I wouldn't trade him for anything less than an early second, and that's probably even stretching it a bit. At this point if we're getting less than that we're probably better off seeing what he can do next to Harris and possibly with an actual defensive line.
True. In recent news, it has already been reported that bob sanders has gotten a new contract, a very large contract. One, it sets a bit of precident for kerry rhodes new extension, but more importantly to me is the state of their contract discussions with Scott lilja and jake scott and dallas clark. I think that the colts will franchise or lock up clark and than their most important FA will probably bee scott. However, i think they will let scott and lilja hit the market, because i beleive they have some pretty competent backups that they most likely can insert into their system. Jake scott is a fantastic right guard, however i'm sure that he can play LG; i would like to bring him in for some talks as well as Stacy Andrews.
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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Definitely, one of the Colts guards would be a big sign. And I really hope we extend Rhodes this offseason, we can't afford to let the guy go he's a leader and possibly our best defensive player as well.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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A little update on the d-coordinator front;


- Rob Ryan, Jetting To New York?
Thursday, December 27th, 2007 by Gary Grund


When Eric Mangini was announced as head coach of the New York Jets in January of 2006, speculation arose as to whether or not Raiders defensive coordinator Rob Ryan would join Mangini’s coaching staff and run the defense. Despite all the rumors, the job went to one of the in-house candidate’s, former linebacker’s coach, Bob Sutton.

In his tenure here with the Jets, Sutton hasn’t exactly made an impact with his defense that ranked 20th in total defense in 2006 and 22nd so far in 2007.

In 2006, Rob Ryan’s Raiders’ defense was 3rd best in the NFL in total defense. This year? The Raiders defense is full of underachieving players and is ranked 26th in total defense in the league. Oakland didn’t exactly address all the needs the defense needed in the offseason either. With that said, Raiders head coach Lane Kiffin was noncommittal as to whether or not Ryan would return next season as the defensive coordinator. There is speculation that has led us to believe that he might be let go.

If Ryan becomes available this offseason, you would have to believe the Jets could make a serious run to bring him in as their defensive coordinator. He does have a history with coach Mangini while with the Patriots. The two worked together in Ryan’s four-year tenure in New England with Mangini working with the defensive backs while Ryan coached the linebackers. Ryan left the Patriots prior to the 2004 season to join the Raiders.

Update - 1:01 p.m. - Rob Ryan is scheduled to meet with Raiders owner Al Davis to evaluate the situation and he could be released as early as Wednesday. Rob Ryan commented on any job concerns. “I’d be out of a job for two minutes. I mean, who are we kidding? I’m not worried about it. Love the Raiders. If that happens, so be it. I’d be out of a job for two minutes.”



I still am a very big supporter of bringing him in if it is possible. He certainly knows his 34 defense and will be a big draw for high caliber free agents who will want to play for him. I've heard that his players LOVE to play for him and that is something i think our coaching staff needs.
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:32 AM    (permalink
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great find saw somthing similar and I was going to post it. I really want him...he's a coordinator he doesnt count against any cap get into a bidding war overpay him, go for it, it will be worth it.

If the Jets are committed to getting "there" they will need him
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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I can't remember where i read i read it, but i honestly like Rob Ryan over his brother in baltimore. It seems as though Rob has "made a great meal with cheaper/less ingrediants compared to his brother's meal that was prepared with the most expensive and best ingredients." the idea is that not only does he know his 34 but he can utilize all players, which our defense has some stars in the making and other solid players. I think good ole woody needs to open up his purse (he'll get a wallet when he proves to me he isn't a cheap little girl) and spend some money on bringing ryan here if he becomes available. I also definately need to see rhodes get a contract extension this offseason, because even though sanders just signed a huge contract, rhodes will only get more expensive at the end of next years free agent year and after adrian wilson the the rest get their contracts. I have heard rumors (rotoworld & tannenbaum's interview on jet 24/7???) that tannenbaum is going to uncharacteristically spend money this offseason. One can only hope and i honestly don't like getting my hopes up, so we will see. I am really just keeping my hopes up for Stacy Andrews who could play guard or tackle and is a monster as well as jake scott and possible max starks and lilja. I think signing a guard and tackle could open up the entire draf for us, allowing us increased flexibility.

I also cannot wait to see Groves and the other DE/OLB tweeners come combine time. I know everyone is extremely high on gholston, i am definately one of them. But, groves and blake were seen as surefire first rounders at the beginning of the year and it seemed it was more injury/"illness" that sidelined them and not just poor play. I think if we miss out on gholston we still have a chance for a top end pass rusher. And i still feel blake is going to end up being the steal of this draft.
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Old 12-30-2007, 01:59 AM    (permalink
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your comment made me think...if ryan comes to the Jets he might also bring some of his huge 34 DEs with him...its a thought and theyre good and at a chepaer price this just keeps making more and more sense. Bring him in soon and get things going for the draft so him Mangini Tannenbaum and whoever our OC is can get cooking on a masterful plan to beat the Patriots and get to the playoffs.
PLEASE ROB RYAN I AM BEGGING COME TO NY.

If we lose tomorrow: Trade down and stock pile
If we win tomorrow: Vernon Gholston (if not then trade down)

If we miss out on gholston Im completely with you BLAKE #1 Pass rushing priority. If we could get a Malcolm Kelly I would love it.


Oh and if we could somehow get 2 high #1 picks for next year I'd like Kevin Smith RB UCF and George Selvie OLB SFU...you guys know they will be ridiculous on Sundays....Smith fits our mold too hes staying in schoolto finish his degree for his mom.... Selvie, "academic achievements: ----. activites: enjoys lifting" fast strong awesome. Both break records and will get mad money!
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