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Old 01-08-2009, 02:55 PM    (permalink
derza222
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I would love for a bigger back that could pound the defense, but it was hard enough finding enough carries for TJ and Leon. Hopefully without Favre we will be able to go to a more run-oriented offense.

Our defense was great the first 3/4 of the season and than after the denver game it was terrible. That could be do to Jenkins' injury or mangini overhauling the defensive play calling, but who knows.

I personally think that a WR is one of our top needs. We have absolutely no one that can get consistent downfield separation and that was very evident towards the end of the season. Once teams started keeping safeties or LBs in the 5 yard bubble to disrupt our short passing game, we were unable to do anything. I feel that a Jeremy Maclin or DHB should be our top priority. I understand we need another CB to pair with revis and another S, but i just think WR would have a bigger overall impact on our offense.
I agree with you about the lack of carries but also Josh that we got away with it. I just wish we had a bruiser really, and think if we got back to a run-oriented offense we could need a third guy to take up some carries especially in the case of an injury. We haven't carried a third back with Mangini but the new coach may very well want to so I wouldn't be shocked if we looked for a bigger guy to add a different element to our backfield. Perhaps even see if a LeRon McClain tweener type can get things done... Maybe Caulcrick plays a bit of a role for us next year but I'd still be cool with taking a bigger back later. I love Shonn Greene but think we have other positions we need to address first. Maybe we can get him in the fourth if he runs like a 4.6.

On the topic of a run-oriented offense, if we do that I think we absolutely need to make re-signing Tony Richardson a priority.


Defensively we were great at times but also inconsistant but we absolutely have some holes. Barton may not come back which opens a big question mark at ILB. If we go ILB in the first I'd like to maybe trade down a little and look for Brandon Spikes, otherwise I'd look to target Brinkley in the second or third.

We could use a better backup at nose to keep Jenkins fresh and at his best. If he gets injured we're really aboslutely screwed defensively. If Ron Brace is there in the third I think we have to jump all over it. Otherwise there aren't that many guys, maybe that dude from Texas, Roy Miller, a little later to see if he develops because he's got some potential there even though he doesn't have prototypical size. Raji in the first would be one of those picks that isn't exactly my favorite but it'd make some sense and I think I'd end up being alright with it. Not exactly our biggest need but I think it deserves a look.

Defensive end I think we wait till next year with a bunch of prototypical end prospects coming out and it's not a huge need anyway. I'd be alright with a mid-round guy because we could use some youth at the position...Scott's report on that guy Mitch King from Iowa makes him seem like a potentially appealing guy to target and he's got him pegged as a late rounder so we could look there in the sixth perhaps. But he's 6'3 280 with a good motor, nice intensity, good timed speed, and good strength. Not too many downsides really other than that he's a tweener.

Corner we could probably use a guy to pair with Revis, yet to see if Lowery can be that guy though we may not want to rely on it. There's a lot of depth at the position this year though so we could probably get a good guy in the second.

Free safety along with ILB may actually be our biggest defensive need depending on who we re-sign. The more I think about it the more I think Taylor Mays would be a nice pick if he slips to us at 17 although that's relatively unlikely. He'd be great to take away the big play and let Rhodes roam around and get the job done, plus he could try and take away Lowery's side to prevent big plays there and let him play more aggressively to try and make plays on the ball on shorter routes which is where he's at his best. So he could maybe even kill two birds with one stone. I would like to look there at some point though.


As for WR I agree with BroadwayJoe that it should really be a big target for us. On one hand I wonder if we even are going to have Coles next year with our cap problems. But regardless I think we need to add speed and athleticism to the position, DHB and Maclin are absolutely the two guys I'd like most (Maclin being my slight preference) but I'd be down with Britt as well. It just seems like based on value that's going to be the position it'll make the most sense to look at with our pick at 17.
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:27 PM    (permalink
The Great Jonathan Vilma
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So, apparently we don't get anything for trading Robertson? That is interesting. I guess at least we got him off the books, but to get absolutely nothing, not even a late round pick is pretty surprising....
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Old 01-09-2009, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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So, apparently we don't get anything for trading Robertson? That is interesting. I guess at least we got him off the books, but to get absolutely nothing, not even a late round pick is pretty surprising....
That kinda shocks me. How can you agree to a conditional pick that can easily become nothing. I read today he played 50% of their snaps and the condition to get a pick was for 65%. That seems like a bogus deal to me.
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Old 01-09-2009, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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we really effed up our trade clauses. we should have had that if vilma is on the saints roster next year we get a first not just if they resign him. cuase he's gonna hit free agency and then just resign with them. now we're dealing with this robertson ****. great
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Old 01-09-2009, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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we really effed up our trade clauses. we should have had that if vilma is on the saints roster next year we get a first not just if they resign him. cuase he's gonna hit free agency and then just resign with them. now we're dealing with this robertson ****. great
I agree, Tannenbaum gets a lot of credit, as he should, but those are a few mistakes among others.
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Old 01-09-2009, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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yep. what do we get from the saints? a 3rd? we should have been like a 4th and next years 1st or something. whatever
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Old 01-09-2009, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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yep. what do we get from the saints? a 3rd? we should have been like a 4th and next years 1st or something. whatever
Its hard to get a 1st rounder for a guy coming off an injury, but I think at the very least it shouldve been a conditional that could become a first. Or multiple picks.
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Old 01-09-2009, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure with D'Rob we were just happy to get him off the books, so in all honesty that trade wasn't bad. I agree about the Vilma one though we should be getting more for him and they should have had it be if he's on the roster not if they extend him. The other problem with Tannenbaum is we're currently way over the cap for next year, so I'm not so sure how he's going to fix that one and improve the team beyond Favre retiring/getting cut.
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Old 01-10-2009, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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my new leon washington sig haha
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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yeah if we werent able to trade drob, he wouldve been gone now anyway, so im still happy we didnt have to pay him last yr, although disapointed we coulndt even get a 6th or 7th out of it
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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my new leon washington sig haha
That is incredibly sweet.
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Looks like Rex Ryan is becoming a more serious candidate after an interview that went well yesterday:

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/200..._ryan_new.html
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Old 01-12-2009, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Looks like Rex Ryan is becoming a more serious candidate after an interview that went well yesterday:

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/200..._ryan_new.html
Glad to hear it. After Cowher and Shanahan said no, Rex Ryan and Steve Spagnola became the best options. I'd only have two concerns with it.

1. Who would be the offensive coordinator?

2. David Harris is good, but he's no Ray Lewis, Kery Rhodes is good, but he's no Ed Reed. Calvin Pace is good but he's no Terrell Suggs. And so on. Other than Darrelle Revis and Kris Jenkins, the Jets simply don't match up talent wise with the Ravens, even the good players the Jets have.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Glad to hear it. After Cowher and Shanahan said no, Rex Ryan and Steve Spagnola became the best options. I'd only have two concerns with it.

1. Who would be the offensive coordinator?

2. David Harris is good, but he's no Ray Lewis, Kery Rhodes is good, but he's no Ed Reed. Calvin Pace is good but he's no Terrell Suggs. And so on. Other than Darrelle Revis and Kris Jenkins, the Jets simply don't match up talent wise with the Ravens, even the good players the Jets have.
Definitely agree that those are the best two options. Your concerns are certainly concerns I would have as well.

For the first one I'd imagine we'd try and keep Schottenheimer on board, which I could be alright with. I think the playcalling was forced a little with Favre on board and could be improved without him. The main thing is continuity is nice offensively and with young quarterbacks it would be helpful for them not to have to learn a new scheme. That said, if we end up drafting a quarterback early, that is not as critical. Otherwise I honestly have no idea what direction we'd go in, I presume Ryan could choose whoever he wanted but since the Ravens haven't had much success perhaps Tannenbaum helps him pick somebody or we promote from within.

For the second one while the Ravens have some very good players they have some players that are less than stellar. They also have been quite banged up in the secondary sometimes and still have success. The thing I like about Ryan's scheme is that he puts players in positions to make plays and remains aggressive which is something we really need defensively. Really all that's critical about him is his philosophy and what the players think of him/how they play for him. He's agressive which I like and his players seem to love him and play very hard. I absolutely agree the talent level is a concern, however.

The big perk to Ryan is that we'd be getting getting a highly regarded coach whose players like him that runs a similar scheme that wouldn't require much turnover.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Well, Ryan could certainly turn things around through the draft, and who knows, he may be able to wake the fire in some players we thought previously useless. Hell, they did it with Bart Scott, and even Fabian Washington looks half decent there.

But yeah. I hate B-Schott but if we get Ryan as our HC, I don't really care. He can phase him out in a year or two.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Well, Ryan could certainly turn things around through the draft, and who knows, he may be able to wake the fire in some players we thought previously useless. Hell, they did it with Bart Scott, and even Fabian Washington looks half decent there.

But yeah. I hate B-Schott but if we get Ryan as our HC, I don't really care. He can phase him out in a year or two.
I agree with the firrst part but are we gonna wanna phase him out in a year or two...like people have been saying here, which i agree with, if we go with a young QB, thats not what we wanna do, we need consistency there...jsut look at alex smith, i konw he had plenty of other problems but 3 coordinators in 3 yrs ruined him
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Definitely agree that those are the best two options. Your concerns are certainly concerns I would have as well.

For the first one I'd imagine we'd try and keep Schottenheimer on board, which I could be alright with. I think the playcalling was forced a little with Favre on board and could be improved without him. The main thing is continuity is nice offensively and with young quarterbacks it would be helpful for them not to have to learn a new scheme. That said, if we end up drafting a quarterback early, that is not as critical. Otherwise I honestly have no idea what direction we'd go in, I presume Ryan could choose whoever he wanted but since the Ravens haven't had much success perhaps Tannenbaum helps him pick somebody or we promote from within.

For the second one while the Ravens have some very good players they have some players that are less than stellar. They also have been quite banged up in the secondary sometimes and still have success. The thing I like about Ryan's scheme is that he puts players in positions to make plays and remains aggressive which is something we really need defensively. Really all that's critical about him is his philosophy and what the players think of him/how they play for him. He's agressive which I like and his players seem to love him and play very hard. I absolutely agree the talent level is a concern, however.

The big perk to Ryan is that we'd be getting getting a highly regarded coach whose players like him that runs a similar scheme that wouldn't require much turnover.
Just a point on your comparison between the Jets and the Ravens, I believe overall our defense is close to theirs. There is no argument that they're better all around from a talent stand point (and scheme also year in, year out) but we have players who can work effectively in any scheme. The thing that makes us roughly even is our offense is overall better than the ravens. Our wr's are pretty even (sadly) but our o-line-across the board- is better than the ravens and Jones/Washington is better than Mcgahee/McClain/Rice. Our QB play is-well-who the hell knows who are qb is now. But my point is, the Ravens are a notch above us in D and were a notch above them in offense.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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I agree with the firrst part but are we gonna wanna phase him out in a year or two...like people have been saying here, which i agree with, if we go with a young QB, thats not what we wanna do, we need consistency there...jsut look at alex smith, i konw he had plenty of other problems but 3 coordinators in 3 yrs ruined him
And it happened to Jason Campbell and he's looked the best he has yet. I mean, it all depends on who we bring in and all that. From the QB standpoint, if they come from a gimmick offense and never went under center or ran the option, well yeah, it might take them a while. And our new coordinator could come from within and the offense might not even really change. Or maybe Schott is good from here on out. Or maybe he leaves. Or maybe he's our new HC. Who knows. There's a lot of variables, and I'm not especially concerned with that if we can get Ryan as our coach and he gets his QB.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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The thing that makes us roughly even is our offense is overall better than the ravens. Our wr's are pretty even (sadly) but our o-line-across the board- is better than the ravens and Jones/Washington is better than Mcgahee/McClain/Rice. Our QB play is-well-who the hell knows who are qb is now. But my point is, the Ravens are a notch above us in D and were a notch above them in offense.
1. The Jets and Ravens are not roughly even. I'd say the only places where the Jets have the advantage are interior offensive line and running back. And that does not make the Jets remotely even with the Ravens.

2. What does it matter if the Jets are better offensively if we're hiring the Ravens DEFENSIVE coordinator?
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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And it happened to Jason Campbell and he's looked the best he has yet. I mean, it all depends on who we bring in and all that. From the QB standpoint, if they come from a gimmick offense and never went under center or ran the option, well yeah, it might take them a while. And our new coordinator could come from within and the offense might not even really change. Or maybe Schott is good from here on out. Or maybe he leaves. Or maybe he's our new HC. Who knows. There's a lot of variables, and I'm not especially concerned with that if we can get Ryan as our coach and he gets his QB.
ok well campbells one thing, and if were gonna bring in a QB guru like zorn down the road then yeah forget that..but i dotn think its the change in scheme thats helped him as much as it is zorn, and at times he looked uncomfortbale this year, and didnt lead them anywhere, also portis was a large part of his success this year, if you look at his statsa nd just how he played he was so much better early on when clinton portis was the top RB in the league, adn then when he got hit with injuries, campbell couldnt really handle the load (first 8 weeks which is when portis was healthy he had 8 tds to 0 ints, and then the next 8 weeks he had 5 tds to 6 ints

and as for your schott point i was addressing what you said aabout phasing him out in a year or two under, not keeping him or upgrading him
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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I've been hoping until now that they were going to get Rex Ryan or Steve Spagnola. But now that Jon Gruden is on the market, he is instantly the #1 FA agent coach on the market and the Jets need to at least try to get him (and then make Bill Callahan the OC).
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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I've been hoping until now that they were going to get Rex Ryan or Steve Spagnola. But now that Jon Gruden is on the market, he is instantly the #1 FA agent coach on the market and the Jets need to at least try to get him (and then make Bill Callahan the OC).
There are two major perks to Gruden. First, he's going to hold his players accountable and show some emotion unlike Mangini, and I think we really do want a change there. Second, he'll probably do a lot to help out with an uncertain quarterback situation. I still like Ryan a lot and if we bring in Gruden we'll need to bring in someone as a DC to fix the defense (Romeo? perhaps somebody from the Ravens). Plus with Gruden we probably stick with the 3-4. We could do a lot worse, though.

Also, if Schottenheimer leaves (even if he doesn't) I'd like Callahan to be the OC.

EDIT: PLUS Gruden could mean more likely we go WR

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Old 01-16-2009, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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Considering that we'd need to have a QB to run the WCO, the players would also have to learn that system, and our guys don't particularly seem to take to that sort of coach all too well, I'd rather not. I do like Gruden though and we could definitely do worse (well, B-Schott is probably the only worse option out there right now). I'm also not particularly a fan of using recycled head coaches nor am I a fan of offensive minded ones, but that's just me.

Oh and some good news, looks like Garrett is going to the Rams, so that'd probably leave our only contender as the Chiefs, who hopefully will go after B-Schott.

And just because Gruden is an offensive mind doesn't mean he's more likely to go offense. If anything, it means he's less likely. Usually they tend to do that, especially with an arrogant coach like Gruden. He'll bring in offensive guys in later rounds and randomly through free agency.
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Old 01-16-2009, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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And just because Gruden is an offensive mind doesn't mean he's more likely to go offense. If anything, it means he's less likely. Usually they tend to do that, especially with an arrogant coach like Gruden. He'll bring in offensive guys in later rounds and randomly through free agency.
If Tampa has been any indication, this isn't true, and I don't really know why you would this it is.

2008
2 58 Dexter Jackson WR Appalachian State

2007
2 35 Arron Sears G Tennessee

2006 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers
1 23 Davin Joseph G Oklahoma
2 59 Jeremy Trueblood T Boston College
3 90 Maurice Stovall WR Notre Dame

2005 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers
1 5 Cadillac Williams RB Auburn
2 36 Barrett Ruud LB Nebraska
3 71 Alex Smith TE Stanford
3 91 Chris Colmer T North Carolina State
4 107 Dan Buenning G Wisconsin

2004 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers
1 15 Michael Clayton WR Louisiana State

2003 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2 64 Dewayne White DE Louisville
3 97 Chris Simms QB Texas
4 130 Lance Nimmo T West Virginia
4 133 Austin King C Northwestern
5 168 Sean Mahan G Notre Dame

2002 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers
3 86 Marquise Walker WR Michigan
4 119 Travis Stephens RB Tennessee


So, while Gruden was in Tampa Bay, they drafted offensive with at least one of their top two picks every single year. They didn't do a very good job drafting, but they did go after offensive players.
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Old 01-17-2009, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Well I was specifically talking about the first round, but you make a decent point. I guess I was looking more at his successes though, which didn't particularly come from that area. But of course, what's always carried him was defense, which hasn't even ever been in his control, and that's why I don't particularly care for him for the spot.
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