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Old 03-07-2009, 05:01 PM    (permalink
AlexDown
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You can't be serious.

You are happy going into TC and the season with these 3 QBs? I don't know about you, but I am not putting blind faith in any of them. Bring in someone who can compete for the starting job. You are basically assuming that Clemmens will start and be able to manage the Jets. Even if you truly believe that and feel that none of the FA QBs can beat him out, what happens if he goes down?

We need to bring in a QB to compete for the starting job. Clemmens beating out Ainge and Ratliff does not really mean much to me.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Well now we'll get to see TO twice a year.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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You can't be serious.

You are happy going into TC and the season with these 3 QBs? I don't know about you, but I am not putting blind faith in any of them.

I would be as happy going into TC with these 3 QBs as I would with these three and any of the following.


Charlie Batch
Brock Berlin
Kyle Boller
Brooks Bollinger
Todd Bouman
Ken Dorsey
Gus Frerotte
Charlie Frye
Jeff Garcia
Trent Green
Rex Grossman
Joey Harrington
Drew Henson
Byron Leftwich
J.P. Losman
Jamie Martin
Patrick Ramsey
Marquis Tuiasosopo
Anthony Wright

The only one IMO who could theoretically provide an upgrade is Jeff Garcia or Leftwich, both of whom are inconsistant and probably wouldn't want to have to compete for a job on the Jets (meaning having it handed to them).

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Old 03-07-2009, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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I mean, if that is what you really believe, I'm not going to debate it with you.

I'll say it again, your putting a lot of stock in a QB that hasn't proved anything, and two who haven't played a down in the NFL. I mean, guess I just don't eye to eye with you on this one. It will be a mistake to not make a move for any move for a veteran QB, and I would be shocked if the Jets did not act to sign one.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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I mean, if that is what you really believe, I'm not going to debate it with you.

I'll say it again, your putting a lot of stock in a QB that hasn't proved anything, and two who haven't played a down in the NFL. I mean, guess I just don't eye to eye with you on this one. It will be a mistake to not make a move for any move for a veteran QB, and I would be shocked if the Jets did not act to sign one.
Jets | Unlikely to pursue Garcia
Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:30:46 -0800

Dave Hutchinson, of the Star-Ledger, reports the New York Jets appear unlikely to pursue impending free-agent QB Jeff Garcia (Buccaneers). The Jets are leaning toward going with either QB Kellen Clemens or QB Brett Ratliff and would like a veteran as an insurance policy and not a starter.

There are no veteran backup QB's of any kind of quality out there. I would much rather go with an uproven QB than the ones out there that have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they suck (Grossman, Boller, Henson, etc) or that they don't have it anymore (Frerotte, Green, Brad Johnson, etc). JMO, but yeah, I'm as confident in the three the Jets have than anyone else currently out there.



And I forgot Brad Johnson on my list that I wrote.

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Old 03-07-2009, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Revis got T.O and Moss on lock and Sheppard got Evans and Welker. And about this QB thingwe have to give one of these young guys a shot and see what they can provide. If it does not work out well then we go get a QB next year.
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Old 03-07-2009, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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I have to imagine we're going to end up signing somebody eventually at least just to give a different look. At this point they'll probably end up waiting for the price of the quarterbacks that are on the market to drive down some and grab somebody decent.

Whatever happens with the position it will be interesting to follow, but I do think we need to allow the guys currently on the roster to have a shot to compete for the starting job. No Favre-esque move...

The thing with picking up some QB via trade or free agency is that the team they were formerly on wouldn't let them go if they were legit. And with a veteran, they've generally proved over the course of their career that they won't be successful in the franchise QB sense. So while it's hard to be comfortable with the guys currently on the roster, somebody that is available to be had definitely will have some major holes in their game as well.
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Old 03-07-2009, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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LOL :)

We have 3 QBs, 2 who haven't played a down in the NFL and one that has not proven anything at all! I mean, what more can I say.

So many of you are fine just handing the job to Clemens, but I don't see the problem of giving him some competition. There is zero to be lost, and this competition only helps to see where we stand. What is the problem with some competition? I would hate to find out at TC, when more talented FA QBs are gone, that Clemens hasn't progressed.

You all seem to be saying that bringing in a FA QB would somehow prevent the younger guys from getting their "shot". Everyone has a change to beat out everyone at TC, and if Clemens is better then everyone, that thats great news for the Jets. Bringing in a Vet QB to compete does NOT mean we aren't giving the guys on our roster a shot.

I also don't like how your painting with a wide brush Crickett by labeling all those QBs as washed up or terrible. The Jets are a talented team, and I don't think we need our QB to "win" the games for us to succeed, and I can think of a lot of QBs who I bet you considered washed up that, with enough talent, played some consistent football. I mean just look at Kerry Collins after Oakland and even first year in Tennessee. But that is just one example.
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Old 03-07-2009, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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I have to imagine we're going to end up signing somebody eventually at least just to give a different look. At this point they'll probably end up waiting for the price of the quarterbacks that are on the market to drive down some and grab somebody decent.

.
I think so too (though decent is a subjective term here). Whether its a veteran or a draft pick i think we at least need another option. But with that said i think the fact that the O-Coordinator remained from last year says something for the current group. There is a lot on the line this year for Schottenheimer. If the O bombs it could set him back a bit in his quest to be a head coach and if he thought that no one on the current roster could develop i would imagine they would be pursuing someone as we speak.
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Old 03-07-2009, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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LOL :)

I mean just look at Kerry Collins after Oakland and even first year in Tennessee. But that is just one example.
I agree I thought Collins was dead weight..and Kurt Warner looked done for a while too...
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Old 03-07-2009, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure there are some options out there and like I said I think we sign somebody, but to me it seems like it'll be a just for the hell of it lets see if we get lucky while we get some competition for our young QB's signing. There are some alright options out there but nobody really jumps out as a guy who I think can absolutely lead us to the playoffs with a team around the level of last year, better in some areas and worse in others. It's probably going to happen and I'm not against it by any stretch as long as it's not long-term or really expensive, but it's pretty much a crapshoot with the guys available IMO.
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Old 03-08-2009, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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I also don't like how your painting with a wide brush Crickett by labeling all those QBs as washed up or terrible.
Which ones aren't? I look at that free agent list and see Jeff Garcia (who would not want to compete for a job), Byron Leftwich (who is in a fairly similar situation to Clemens IMO and would cost a lot more) and not a lot else.
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Old 03-08-2009, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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The guys on that list are no better than what we have so we should see what our 3 QB's can do.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:37 AM    (permalink
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Wow. Quite the argument about the QBs. I'm drunk so I agree with everyone. :)
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:25 AM    (permalink
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Wow. Quite the argument about the QBs. I'm drunk so I agree with everyone. :)
I am sort of in the middle on all of this, but one guy I do not want is Jeff Garcia. I don't think he has the arm strength anymore (if he ever did) to play in the north east and Giants Stadium in particular.
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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Honestly, I don't really want to sign any of those qbs. True all those guys are experienced and some have had some success in the league, but all of them are pretty flawed. I think we are probably better off not waiting any longer on the guys we have. At a certain point, we need to see what our guys have.
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Old 03-08-2009, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I don't really want to sign any of those qbs. True all those guys are experienced and some have had some success in the league, but all of them are pretty flawed. I think we are probably better off not waiting any longer on the guys we have. At a certain point, we need to see what our guys have.
I do want to see what our guys have, but I don't want to hand it to them either. The flipside of it is that we have a major issue if our guys wouldn't beat out the players on that list. Because if they wouldn't, we're kind of throwing potentially a solid season away.

Obviously you're not going to hand the veteran the job because we all (and I'm sure the organization) wants the younger guys to start. So by signing a veteran you're kind of hedging your bet so we're not completely screwed at quarterback this season if the younger guys wouldn't beat them out, but in all likelihood one of the younger guys is going to win anyway so maybe it's a waste of money.

As long as it's cheap I don't think it's a huge, huge issue either way.
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Old 03-08-2009, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Here is what Scott said about the Jets in his latest chat.

Quote:
They will be picking in the Top 10 overall next year if they go with Kellen Clemens and Brett Ratliff.
Just to bring in another perspective.
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Old 03-08-2009, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Here is what Scott said about the Jets in his latest chat.



Just to bring in another perspective.
So who can they go and get in free agency?
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Old 03-08-2009, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Scott is awesome, but to be fair I'm not sure how much weight that carries. He'd be pretty open to us taking a guy like Freeman at 17...and I don't know many Jets fans that think taking Freeman there would be a good idea. It's one man's opinion, but I don't frankly agree with it and it's far too much of a blanket statement for my taste.

I'm just not sure who we're going to add that's a major upgrade (or upgrade at all) over who we have right now, and any QB that we draft should really sit for a couple years before starting. I think anyone that follows the team would be open to an upgrade if they felt there was one available, but at this point it's unclear who that upgrade would be.
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Old 03-08-2009, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Scott is awesome, but to be fair I'm not sure how much weight that carries. He'd be pretty open to us taking a guy like Freeman at 17...and I don't know many Jets fans that think taking Freeman there would be a good idea. It's one man's opinion, but I don't frankly agree with it and it's far too much of a blanket statement for my taste.
Well said. I didn't post his opinion as an end all be all, but as another perspective.

And Crickett, of the guys you have listed, I would love for Byron Leftwich to be brought in to compete for the starting job. If Clemens beats him out, that is awesome and great news for the Jets. If not, hopefully I can feel more confident with a backup who has experience and could help us keep afloat if the starter goes down, instead of, in my opinion, losing the season completely.

Maybe I just like Marshall QBs though.
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Old 03-08-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Byron is really the only QB on that list that I wouldn't mind. Even though he has a slow release, our line is better than Pittsburgh was last year, and he did fine in relief for Big Ben. I want to see him have another chance at a starting job.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Scott is awesome, but to be fair I'm not sure how much weight that carries. He'd be pretty open to us taking a guy like Freeman at 17...and I don't know many Jets fans that think taking Freeman there would be a good idea. It's one man's opinion, but I don't frankly agree with it and it's far too much of a blanket statement for my taste.

I'm just not sure who we're going to add that's a major upgrade (or upgrade at all) over who we have right now, and any QB that we draft should really sit for a couple years before starting. I think anyone that follows the team would be open to an upgrade if they felt there was one available, but at this point it's unclear who that upgrade would be.

I definitely respect his opinion with consideration of talent evaluation, because he's been spot on since i've been on here. However, as far as team needs and personel he's missed a few times, as others have as well. I distinctly remember he criticizing the jets for moving up and taking keller when all the other receivers like Kelly, Hardy and Sweed were open for the taking...


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Originally Posted by AlexDown View Post
Well said. I didn't post his opinion as an end all be all, but as another perspective.

And Crickett, of the guys you have listed, I would love for Byron Leftwich to be brought in to compete for the starting job. If Clemens beats him out, that is awesome and great news for the Jets. If not, hopefully I can feel more confident with a backup who has experience and could help us keep afloat if the starter goes down, instead of, in my opinion, losing the season completely.

Maybe I just like Marshall QBs though.

Gotta love those Marshall QBs :) I wouldn't mind bringing in Leftwich, as long as he can fix his delivery, it's always been too damn elongated. It looked as though he shortened it up a bit during his spot duty with Pitt this year.

On the other hand, I also understand those who feel he would stunt the growth of our current QBs. It often takes in-game play in order to assess a player and I just personally wanna ride or die with the guys we currently have.

If they don't pan out, good ole Vinny T is only a phone call and quick ride away.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Well having read all of that argument now...

Someone knocked Clemens because he couldn't even beat out Pennington. However, Derek Anderson couldn't beat Charlie Frye, yet he turned out to be significantly better. Training camp and the pre-season are poor barometers of what a QB can do because at the end of the day, it's just not the same. Even take Flacco. While I hate him, prior to the season he looked terrible, yet he at the very least was better than Boller and did a fairly admirable job.

And it's interesting because it seems as though the main knock on them is that we don't know a lot about what they can do, but really, isn't that a good thing? Looking at all of the QBs available, even considering the ones that could be gotten through trade (excluding Cutler, since I think that's unrealistic), how many of them were that good? How many have really won all that much and could any of them carry a franchise? Because really, I'd say that they'd have to be able to carry a franchise to be considered over the QBs we currently have because if all we're going to do is rely on our rushing attack and defense anyway, you don't need to bring in some high-priced, long-in-the-tooth free agent.

As far as what sort of QB we should be looking for...

Well, I think one of the biggest deterrents on Favre with us last year was the fact that he lacked mobility. I don't think half of his picks would have happened had he been able to buy himself some time, and it was fairly painful watching him have twenty-five yards of open field in front of him and not be able to pick up five. If we bring in someone, they're going to have to be mobile.

Secondly, they need the arm. I don't think anyone would disagree there. You just need a strong arm in New York. It's funny because Favre with the shoulder injury had just about as much pop on his ball as Pennington does.

And lastly, they need to bring chemistry and leadership. With Favre, there was talks about him not really being all too close with his teammates, and by the sounds of things, we're really going to emphasize team chemistry, so we'll need to bring in someone that will become a support system for his teammates. At the same time, we need someone that will rally the troops and march them downfield when necessary.

So looking at that criteria (JMO of course), of the QBs available, the only ones that mildly pass the first two points are Derek Anderson and Kyle Boller (Leftwich has D-Linemen speed and Garcia is a WCO QB for a reason), and neither comes that close to passing the last one. So to me, that'd mean we'd be better off sticking with our guys, trading for Troy Smith (well, I'm biased, but still), or drafting a guy.

And as they've stated, they really don't want to bring in an older QB to actually compete for the starting position, so more than likely they'll be signing a third-stringer a couple of months before the start of the season (unless of course we draft a guy).
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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Nice post. The other thing that gets me with the Clemens knocking for not being able to even beat out Pennington is that Pennington actually had a really good season for the Dolphins last year. He's probably not going to win you a Super Bowl but he's also not exactly a slouch at the position either.

The thing with free agency and trades is that, as I said, if a guy is available they're available for a reason. Teams don't just let legit quarterbacks go unless they have a surplus at the position, and even then you're generally getting who they think is the worse of the two. There's always a question about guys, even a couple years ago with Brees the Chargers had Rivers and Brees had shoulder questions coming of an injury. Or with Cassell and Brady, Cassell is clearly the lesser of the two guys and has major question marks coming out of that system with that supporting cast. So if you're bringing in somebody there, it's almost like a what the hell lets sign him for kicks and see if he pans our and maybe gives us some competition.

So if not free agency it's the draft, and with the guys that are available this year nobody seems to be ready to start this year anyway. I'd be really worried if we drafted Sanchez or Freeman only to have them start year one. So at this point if we draft a guy we're probably going to have to see if Clemens or Ratliff or maybe even Ainge is the answer this year anyway. If we don't and none of our guys are successful maybe it sets us a year back, but on the same token if we do draft a quarterback and he busts it sets us maybe 3 or 4 years back so if we do draft a guy we'd better be damn comfortable that he's going to pan out.
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