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Old 08-27-2009, 06:14 PM    (permalink
derza222
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Originally Posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma View Post
Reggie Brown would probably be an upgrade over what is starting, although last year was a disappointment for him. He isn't exactly what we are looking for, but so long as it isn't a large contract, would be worth a shot given our current situation at the position.
I agree. The one argument I could see against a guy like Brown is he's got relatively limited upside. I'd say you're looking at about 50-60 catches for 700-800 yards best case. If you think one of the other young guys on the team CAN do better (Ryan seems to love Clowney), maybe give them a shot and see if they can develop into a long-term target for Sanchez. Kind of depends if you're looking to win now or later though. A guy like Matt Jones is different because he'd come cheap and has more upside, so I'd almost prefer him even with his off the field issues based on the current situation.

Looks like Clowney is getting more work with the one's now, Gholston is starting against the Giants (hopefully he shows a flash, though I won't be surprised if he doesn't), and Shonn Greene is going to probably be held out for the rest of the preseason as a precaution due to a rib injury. Ryan definitely does not like having injured guys on the field (presumably that will change come the regular season), very cautious which I like for the preseason, I just hope people aren't rusty.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:27 AM    (permalink
josh07039
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My opinion on the receivers is that we should see what we have in clowney, stuckey, and brad smith. With an inexperienced qb as the starter, we all know that the offense will be based on ball control. Regardless of our wrs, the biggest parts of our passing game will be keller and cotch on short passes and leon in the flat. Having a guy like Brandon Marshall would help because he is a big target and will prevent interceptions and overthrows. However, I don't even think Marshall is necessary based on our offensive philosophy. Reggie Brown will not be a significant upgrade so he makes even less sense.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:17 AM    (permalink
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I was hoping we made the trade for marshall until seeing this......http://www.thedenverchannel.com/vide...420/index.html

I think we should stick with our guys that have been there all along unless some major upgrade becomes available (not named Brandon). Brad Smith needs to step up this year and really become a WR. Clowney will be great for the occasional deep plays and Stuckey will be a great slot guy for underneath routes.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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I was hoping we made the trade for marshall until seeing this......http://www.thedenverchannel.com/vide...420/index.html

I think we should stick with our guys that have been there all along unless some major upgrade becomes available (not named Brandon). Brad Smith needs to step up this year and really become a WR. Clowney will be great for the occasional deep plays and Stuckey will be a great slot guy for underneath routes.
After seeing that video of Brandon Marshall, no way I do I want him on our team. He is maybe the BIGGEST DIVA in the league. I dont think Brad Smith will ever develop into a good WR. I do want to see some trick plays with him this year that will utilize his arm in the wildcat. He can be a very dangerous weapon for us. Im pretty convinced that our #2 WR come the season opener is not on our team. Clowney is a good deep threat but not much more than that. I want Stuckey to remain in the slot because he was so good at it. He was born to play in the slot. In conclusion, I think we will go out and get a legitimate starter.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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My opinion on the receivers is that we should see what we have in clowney, stuckey, and brad smith.
I wouldn't mind seeing what the Jets have in Clowney, Stuckey and Brad Smith (although I think we've already what Brad Smith has and it ain't much), but at the same time, I don't want the Jets to have to depend on both of them (Clowney and Stuckey) to excel. Reggie Brown could and probably would provide the Jets a mediocre #2 receiver. I don't know about you guys, but as soon as the Jets ended the draft without an early WR, that became what I was hoping the Jets would get. A cheap stopgap and fallback option in case Clowney or Stuckey failed to impress.

So far, Clowney has had some impressive plays, but he had some impressive plays in the preseason last year too and it did not translate into regular season success.
Then again, Clowney has been playing earlier this preseason (meaning against better defensive personnel) and has had a year to develop, so maybe he really can be the Jets legit deep threat.

Chansi Stuckey and Brad Smith have a combined 3 catches for 22 yards this preseason. And if I recall correctly, Brad Smith's once catch required him to jump fairly high so he could catch it directly in his chest.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't mind seeing what the Jets have in Clowney, Stuckey and Brad Smith (although I think we've already what Brad Smith has and it ain't much), but at the same time, I don't want the Jets to have to depend on both of them (Clowney and Stuckey) to excel. Reggie Brown could and probably would provide the Jets a mediocre #2 receiver. I don't know about you guys, but as soon as the Jets ended the draft without an early WR, that became what I was hoping the Jets would get. A cheap stopgap and fallback option in case Clowney or Stuckey failed to impress.

So far, Clowney has had some impressive plays, but he had some impressive plays in the preseason last year too and it did not translate into regular season success.
Then again, Clowney has been playing earlier this preseason (meaning against better defensive personnel) and has had a year to develop, so maybe he really can be the Jets legit deep threat.

Chansi Stuckey and Brad Smith have a combined 3 catches for 22 yards this preseason. And if I recall correctly, Brad Smith's once catch required him to jump fairly high so he could catch it directly in his chest.
I don't think Brad Smith will ever be a good 2 or even 3 wr. As for Clowney and Stuckey, Wallace Wright, etc we just don't know. Perhaps we will just keep rotating and riding the hot hand throughout the season opposite cotchery

I remember Ryan saying that Leon would get about 300 touches this year. Unless Ryan plans on running him into the ground, you have to assume he will be getting a lot of passes thrown his way on short routes and in the flat. Additionally, Keller has proven to be a good safety blanket who can also break tackles for YAC. Those two options in the pass game, combined with cotchery will mean that the other relievers dont need to do that much. If Stuckey can work the middle of the field and short routes and Clowney can work deep, we are set. If the O-line stays healthy, I expect to see Greene, Jones and Leon get carries like the Ravens did last year. Realistically, we don't want Sanchez throwing that much

Realistically, look at the ravens offense last year. They were similar to the Jets now with the rookie qb, good, oline, a strong stable of rbs, and not much depth at wide receiver behind mason. I think our stable of receivers combined with keller and Leon is more formidable than the Ravens.
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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So far, Clowney has had some impressive plays, but he had some impressive plays in the preseason last year too and it did not translate into regular season success.
Then again, Clowney has been playing earlier this preseason (meaning against better defensive personnel) and has had a year to develop, so maybe he really can be the Jets legit deep threat.
Wasn't Clowney hurt with the collarbone issue last year and then kind of in Mangini's doghouse? I think it's worth at least seeing what he's got as opposed to going with a proven mediocre #2 like Reggie Brown. Otherwise we'll never actually see what he can do. I'd love to trade for a legit #1 guy or have our other starter not be on the roster right now like 'Canes said since drafting somebody just means you have to wait for them to develop, but I just don't know who it's going to be. Just watching the video of Marshall I thought Brandon his practice antics were pretty amusing, but clearly I don't want him on the team after that. Too distracting, seems like the type who will always want a raise plus the off the field issues don't help.

As an aside, I hope the team can finish this WR situation soon so they can move on to extending LW. He can be a huge part of the offense in the coming years. I think the sides are close enough on numbers to make the deal so maybe if a WR comes in and the team knows what his cap number is then they'll know what LW can get this year and stay under the cap as opposed to having him play for a different salary after this year which seems to be at least part of the holdup.
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, Marshall has to be out of the question now after that display. He's also probably one more off the field incident away from a long suspension. Those two combined to equal the risk of what it would take to get him.

I honestly think we can win with our WR's, I think someone will step up and fill the #2 spot. Keller should have a monster year....TE=young QB's best friend
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Old 08-29-2009, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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My one and only RL Jets fan friend had 4 tickets to tonight's game and I missed his call until now.



FML. FML. FML. FML. FML. FML. FML. FML. FML.
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Old 08-29-2009, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Is everyone watching this game on NBC? These Giants announcers are really annoying. Id much rather listen to Ian Eagle than these 2 ********.
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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IMO, Sanchez looked great. Not quite at the level of the franchise QBs we've seen during this third week of the pre-season, but definitely better than loser Eli. I can really see Cotch filling that Derrick Mason type role this season. Not sure what to think about the other receiver spot though. It seems like it might just be a revolving door, taking advantage of mismatches. I could be wrong. We don't look half bad though.
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Old 08-29-2009, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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IMO, Sanchez looked great. Not quite at the level of the franchise QBs we've seen during this third week of the pre-season, but definitely better than loser Eli. I can really see Cotch filling that Derrick Mason type role this season. Not sure what to think about the other receiver spot though. It seems like it might just be a revolving door, taking advantage of mismatches. I could be wrong. We don't look half bad though.
Sanchez was great tonight. He seems to start off slow but once he gets into his groove, he is lights out. I was very impressed.

It was pretty painful watching Lito Sheppard. He was getting beat on every play and I think he had 2 pass interference calls against him. He better get his act together.

Vernon Gholston finally gets to the QB and he goes for the helmet to helmet hit. He finally does something positive but turns it into a negative. But Im just happy that he got to the QB.

I know it wont happen but Leon should be the starter. Thomas Jones has done nothing so far. Everytime Leon touches the ball, it seems like a big gain.

Cotch and Stuckey were great. I think we have our starting WR opposite Cotch. Did Clowney even play tonight?
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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It was pretty painful watching Lito Sheppard. He was getting beat on every play and I think he had 2 pass interference calls against him. He better get his act together.

Vernon Gholston finally gets to the QB and he goes for the helmet to helmet hit. He finally does something positive but turns it into a negative. But Im just happy that he got to the QB.

I know it wont happen but Leon should be the starter. Thomas Jones has done nothing so far. Everytime Leon touches the ball, it seems like a big gain.

Cotch and Stuckey were great. I think we have our starting WR opposite Cotch. Did Clowney even play tonight?
When the Jets got Lito, I was really happy. Now I don't think we need to worry about losing that second rounder, because its much less likely he will be back if that is how he is going to play.

You know when Stuckey started to shine with those two big catches including the touchdown on that one drive? It was 60 seconds after I mentioned to someone here that he hadn't done anything this preseason. I fail. :(

I wish I had gone to the game.

F

M

L


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Old 08-30-2009, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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I was incredibly impressed with Sanchez tonight. Even when he wasn't making the greatest decisions he was putting his throws right on the money.

Also, Darrelle Revis is a machine, the end.
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Old 08-30-2009, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Hi Guys,

Didn't think it deserved its own thread and I can't figure out where else to put it, so without further adieu, here is stupid question number 1! (Of many probably).

I'm going to be in the Miami area in October and am looking to go to the Jets Dolphins game. Where is the best place for away fans to sit in the stadium?

I'm pretty sure I'm right in thinking it's a case of 'sit anywhere you like' as there is no away section as such, but thought I'd pick your brains first before ordering tickets.

Thanks for any help and sorry if it's in the wrong section etc.

Thanks,

Colin
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Old 08-30-2009, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Hi Guys,

Didn't think it deserved its own thread and I can't figure out where else to put it, so without further adieu, here is stupid question number 1! (Of many probably).

I'm going to be in the Miami area in October and am looking to go to the Jets Dolphins game. Where is the best place for away fans to sit in the stadium?

I'm pretty sure I'm right in thinking it's a case of 'sit anywhere you like' as there is no away section as such, but thought I'd pick your brains first before ordering tickets.

Thanks for any help and sorry if it's in the wrong section etc.

Thanks,

Colin
Hey Colin, welcome to the forums! I don't really think it makes any difference where you sit at away games you can pretty much go wherever and you'll be fine. This was probably the best place you could have posted that also, so no problems there. Hope you have an awesome time at the game and keep posting here!


Completely unrelated but I don't want to double post. Anybody else think limiting Stuckey to the slot may be a mistake? I've wanted a reason to post this all preseason and I figure after last night's performance was as good a time as any. The guy is obviously a very talented receiver, great hands and he can definitely move some after the catch, and he's shown the ability to get open. Perhaps not a dominant #1, but he could be a very good #2 I think and sticking him in the slot all the time limits him. Let him learn some other positions, and then if we bring in a guy like Clowney in a 3 WR set to go deep or Smith even then you can move Stuckey into the slot and let him play from there. I think the guy can do more than just play the slot, and while he's ideal there he could be capable of more and he's getting pidgeonholed a little too much. Thoughts?
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Old 08-30-2009, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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I think Stuckey is a more natural receiver than Smith and Clowney, and for that reason he should probably start opposite Cotch. Plus, bringing in Clowney every once in a while for the home run play would probably be more effective than him doing it every down. I think "very good #2" is stretching it, but he seems like our best option at the moment. Really, I think we should run the Single Wing and have both Leon and TJ out there instead of another receiver.
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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I think Stuckey is a more natural receiver than Smith and Clowney, and for that reason he should probably start opposite Cotch. Plus, bringing in Clowney every once in a while for the home run play would probably be more effective than him doing it every down. I think "very good #2" is stretching it, but he seems like our best option at the moment. Really, I think we should run the Single Wing and have both Leon and TJ out there instead of another receiver.
Very good #2 was not for this year but more down the road, at this point I think he's a borderline starter. I think he's got more than enough talent for it, the deep speed and height may not be there to be a #1 but as a #2 but the hands absolutely are and he's incredibly shifty after the catch.

Not the bulkiest guy ever but he definitely has enough height and is a good enough route runner to get open as long as he doesn't have to beat double teams. Slightly different after the catch running but his upside is basically a player that IMO is very, VERY similar to Cotchery, who I think also falls into the very good #2 category.

In fact I'll go as far to say that if he has considerably easier defensive matchups than Cotch I think he's capable of putting up similar numbers and I wouldn't be shocked if he put up better numbers.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:05 AM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-presea...Rex-Ryan-wired

A little old, but awesome.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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question: what are the odds of danny woodhead out of chadron state actually making the team. really liked the guy and was a bit bummed that he blew up his knee last year. if im not mistaking he had a pretty decent camp right?
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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question: what are the odds of danny woodhead out of chadron state actually making the team. really liked the guy and was a bit bummed that he blew up his knee last year. if im not mistaking he had a pretty decent camp right?
I don't think they're great, though I'd really like him too. With four backs (Jones, Washington, Greene, and T-Rich as a FB) basically guaranteed to make the team it'll be tough to keep a fifth, particularly one who can't play FB and has a pretty similar skill set to Washington. He's pretty well liked by the fans, but in the numbers game that teams are going to have at this point in the season I just don't think the odds are in his favor. I'd love to keep him on the PS if at all possible (not totally clear on the rules there) or see him stick somewhere else. Definitely somebody I'll root for as long as he's in the league, hopefully he finds a way to make the Jets and stay in green and white for awhile.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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So I'm sure everybody's heard the rumors that we're interested in Marshall, and now people are starting to report that the Broncos want Harris in return. I thought it might come down to willingness to give up Harris since he's one of our better young defensive pieces and the teams we're looking to trade with are just installing 3-4 defenses.

Honestly I think Harris is replaceable as an inside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme and we've got some decent young talent there. I'd say it's pretty clear that a #1 WR is more valuable and Marshall not only fits our all weather offense but adds size and really makes our offense potentially dangerous.

The WR group would go from questionable #1, #2 by committee with a hands guy better suited for the slot, a speed guy who is only going to play situationally, a size/speed gadget guy who can run some wildcat and end arounds along with catching some screens to do damage after the catch, a #5 who is primarily a special teamer and needs more polish on offense, and possibly a developmental guy as a #6 to having a true #1 with Marshall, a very strong #2 in Cotchery, a talented slot guy with good hands and nice moves after the catch in Stuckey and a deep threat to share duties there in Clowney, Smith getting in the game with some gadget plays as a #5, and Wright to develop as a #6 since he's got such nice athleticism and let him do his thing on special teams for awhile where he's a stud (Smith is also very good there).

Then you've got the talented offensive line, the pass catching tight end, and the 3 headed monster at running back. There's really not much of a glaring weakness anywhere on offense provided people stay healthy (particularly the OL) and Sanchez performs (which is a question mark).

But with Marshall's attitude issues, is giving up one of our best young defensive players worth it? Questionable. I'd really say probably not, but I think from a talent and value perspective if it's just Marshall for Harris straight up Marshall carries more value. Beyond that here are some drops questions with Marshall though given the production you may have to throw those out the window. Otherwise I think the production you are going to get on offense allowing everybody else to slip into their strongest role with Marshall around outweighs whatever we lose in Harris at inside linebacker.

Then you've got the question of whether or not Harris will be sticking around past his rookie contract anyway (how much are you going to be paying two inside linebackers, provided Scott is still around by the time Harris' deal expires which he should be). And how much money is Marshall going to want? Will we be able to extend #29 (which IMO should be priority #1 at the moment) or will we only be able to extend Marshall? What kind of message would only extending Marshall send (I don't think a good one)?

I do think someone could step in for Harris and play well enough for the defense to get by. Perhaps that's the long term spot for Westerman and he just gets started there a little earlier than he would have otherwise. Cummings has played well this preseason also. Depth chart seems to indicate that Westerman would be stepping in, so while having a rookie there is rough it's possible that it wouldn't be too much of an issue. Ryan seems to emphasize the belief that players can step in for other players in this defensive scheme and the defense can keep on ticking, so one would hope that would be the case here. Plus Harris could have long-term injury issues, he had some problems last year and it seemed to be a bit of an issue in college, so if those end up being a problem it's a good deal.

All in all it's pretty easy to just say this is a ridiculous trade, but if no draft picks are involved I think the value actually favors the Jets by a decent amount and if they are depending on the picks it may not be a bad deal. Tannenbaum seems to rarely get completely ripped off anyway so if a deal goes down it probably won't be a bad one. It's unfortunate Marshall is such an idiot because as much as I love Harris something along these lines would be a pretty decent trade to make and IMO a no brainer to improve our team and give the franchise QB a legit weapon. At this point I doubt it happens so going through all of this was probably a waste, but it's definitely going to be an interesting situation to follow until either Marshall gets traded somewhere or the Jets address the WR situation like everyone expects they will.
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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I was listening to Fran Tarkenton on Mike&Mike this morning and he made it pretty clear that it's a team sport, and guys like Marshall aren't worth the time. I agree. I don't care if he's the best WR in the league, that's really not worth it. It might be a little different if he didn't get injured, didn't beat women, and wasn't in the last year of his contract, but as is, definitely not worth it. I doubt it'd be straight up, and we're already giving up a draft pick next year for Lito. Giving up all those draft picks will eventually bite us in the ass, just like it did with the Redskins. And, this might lower Scott's value as they've been talking all summer about how having the two "Mike's" would diversify the defense, and now it'd be pretty easy to identify who was doing what. And honestly, our LB depth was pretty bad already. Then, provided we don't have to give up the first rounder, we'd go into next year's draft with one early pick having to be split on OL, DL, possibly RB, possibly ILB, possibly OLB, and if Marshall didn't re-sign, possibly WR.

I'm going to hope the team gets a say and they veto this.
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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I'm not into the Marshall trade situation. Stay away from the bad seeds. Having this many prblems this young isnt a good sign. I don't want a dominatnt and negative attitude like Marshall on the team, even if it does give some short-term benefits. Long-term i don't think it favours us.
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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It really is unfortunate that Marshall's got issues because he could be such a solid addition. I'll have to fit into the no category also, but just by a slight margin because of the impact I think he could have. Character issues can, at times, be overblown based on the situation by the media. I really can't tell if this is one of these situations because I've never talked to the guy, given he's been in trouble repeatedly the issue may be relatively serious but it's tough to really tell.

Best case we can realistically hope for if a trade goes down is that he fits into the general attitude Ryan is looking for here and we get a Randy Moss to the Pats kind of situation where he kind of shuts up, behaves, and goes about his business. Unfortunately the general attitude around the team would probably encourage him to talk more, and we're really at that Patriots level yet. Maybe he'd at least behave, but I think anything's a lot to hope for.


Here's a question. Based on who is on the market and what they will cost (money/what in a trade) what do you think is a bigger priority, bringing in another WR or extending LW (assuming the contract is somewhere between 5 and 6 million/year which is probably what it takes to get it done, and starts this season)? I think I'll take LW.
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