New York Jets Discussion

[jmess15]

Originally Posted by derza222

but at the same time Cotchery is the most reliable WR on the team and I'd personally be a little disappointed if he gets the short end of the stick here.

I agree...I see Cotch as one of the starters. I do wonder how much this will change our offense...hopefully Sanchez is up to the challenge.

[timewaster]

They will all get a short end of a stick.
We should stick with the ground attack for as long as needed.

[Who Dat Nation]

[thetedginnshow]

Haha. That's funny that guy compared us to the old Raiders. That's exactly what I was thinking.

But in any case, last year in single receiver sets Cotch was the guy on the field, not Braylon. I know that might have had more to do with Cotch knowing the system better, but I can't imagine that changing. I'd think you'd want the more sure-handed receiver on the field in those situations. In two receiver sets, really, for at least like half the season I imagine Braylon and Cotch will be the starters simply because Holmes most likely won't be in game shape. But once he is, I'd figure that Holmes and Edwards would be the ones that are interchangeable, not Cotch and one of them. I'd just figure this because of the skills they bring, with the dependability of Cotch and the playmaking of the other two (though Holmes does it better than Edwards). I was reading on TJB about how this might be a battle between Holmes and Edwards to see who makes the team, so that'd be interesting if it shakes out like that. It'd be awfully sad for Braylon if Holmes beats him out missing four games.

[timewaster]

I dont know how i got so much negative rep. lol

Was it the comment in the LT2 thread? It was before my recent thread in the AFC forum. That place is dead.

[TheBoyWonder22]

just a couple thoughts. i think i would really like holmes in the slot. good hands, decent routes, speediest of the 3 main guys. he also has a really good average per catch ratio. another thing that i like about it is that it won't slow down the offense if he moves in at the 3. i really like this deal and i can't wait to see the results of this deal.

[thetedginnshow]

I know the circumstances were a little different, but this sort of reminds me of when the Steelers gave up Plax, giving another offense and a young QB exactly what they need.

[derza222]

Originally Posted by thetedginnshow

I know the circumstances were a little different, but this sort of reminds me of when the Steelers gave up Plax, giving another offense and a young QB exactly what they need.

One difference is I think Edwards will play more of a Plax role, the big go up and get it guy for a young QB that's really needed. I definitely think Holmes' production is going to suffer a little this year. Certainly have faith that he's better than whoever would have been taken in the 5th round, but this isn't a great situation for him. Edwards is a similar deep threat receiver who will really take away from Santonio's targets. Also, in Pitt he had Big Ben extending plays all the time and was able to take advantages of coverages breaking down during those extended plays, which isn't going to happen here. Plus this offense doesn't throw the ball a ton. Obviously he's incredibly skilled, but having another deep target and the different offense will cause problems. Tossing in missing 4 games and I'm not sure a 600ish yard season is out of the question. Think his impact should be greater than will be seen in his own stats, though.

[Crickett]

Originally Posted by derza222

One difference is I think Edwards will play more of a Plax role, the big go up and get it guy for a young QB that's really needed. I definitely think Holmes' production is going to suffer a little this year. Certainly have faith that he's better than whoever would have been taken in the 5th round, but this isn't a great situation for him. Edwards is a similar deep threat receiver who will really take away from Santonio's targets. Also, in Pitt he had Big Ben extending plays all the time and was able to take advantages of coverages breaking down during those extended plays, which isn't going to happen here. Plus this offense doesn't throw the ball a ton. Obviously he's incredibly skilled, but having another deep target and the different offense will cause problems. Tossing in missing 4 games and I'm not sure a 600ish yard season is out of the question. Think his impact should be greater than will be seen in his own stats, though.

1. I would not hope Braylon Edwards isn't used in a Plaxico Burress role, because he simply hasn't shown he's the caliber of receiver that Plaxico was prior to shooting himself in the leg. Sometimes he will make that catch, but very frequently he won't.

2. Santonio had Big Ben extending plays, but at the same time, the Jets have one of the best offensive lines in the NFL and Sanchez isn't exactly a statue.

3. I don't think Holmes' production has as much to worry about from the other receivers as it does the four games suspension and the run to pass ratio. Just the same, I don't think he has much to worry about as I think he is a significant upgrade over anyone the Jets currently have.

[derza222]

Originally Posted by Crickett

1. I would not hope Braylon Edwards isn't used in a Plaxico Burress role, because he simply hasn't shown he's the caliber of receiver that Plaxico was prior to shooting himself in the leg. Sometimes he will make that catch, but very frequently he won't.

2. Santonio had Big Ben extending plays, but at the same time, the Jets have one of the best offensive lines in the NFL and Sanchez isn't exactly a statue.

3. I don't think Holmes' production has as much to worry about from the other receivers as it does the four games suspension and the run to pass ratio. Just the same, I don't think he has much to worry about as I think he is a significant upgrade over anyone the Jets currently have.

To clarify what I meant, a major role Plaxico played for Eli (in my opinion at least) was that when Eli was under pressure and didn't know what to do he could chuck the ball up and Plax would go get it because of his great size. Quite frankly I don't think Holmes or Cotchery are big enough to play that role without creating a bunch of picks, so while Edwards is nowhere near ideal for that because of his shaky hands I think that could be a de-facto role for him.

I understand that there will be time to throw the ball and Sanchez is mobile, it was more a reflection on Holmes than the current situation. A few of his bigger plays came from breakdowns that allowed him to try to beat coverage after an extended period. Not as much timing patterns and beating coverage. I know he can do it but given there won't be as many busted plays I think that could hurt his stats to an extent. Granted he'll still be very solid, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least 200 yards came on the kinds of plays that he won't see here where corners were asked to cover him for 5, 6, 7 seconds or more. I'm just curious where the additional production might come from.

Despite the fact that I think he's the best explosive player on the team, he'll still have to compete for playcalls with another deep threat WR and it'll take time to get acclimated. I was more pointing out that there are a bunch of different things that could hurt his production. Lack of a passing offense is a huge one as is the suspsension. He'll still do well here, but I don't even expect 3/4 of the stats he had last year. I still think there are a bunch of question marks right now, although he is the most talented (hands included) of the top 3 wideouts on the team IMO.

[GET LOOSE]

Imo Holmes should be our slot wr. I see Braylon having a big year and Cotch is just fine at that 2 spot. Homles has the speed and field vision to fit perfectly in the slot.

[thetedginnshow]

Originally Posted by derza222

One difference is I think Edwards will play more of a Plax role, the big go up and get it guy for a young QB that's really needed. I definitely think Holmes' production is going to suffer a little this year. Certainly have faith that he's better than whoever would have been taken in the 5th round, but this isn't a great situation for him. Edwards is a similar deep threat receiver who will really take away from Santonio's targets. Also, in Pitt he had Big Ben extending plays all the time and was able to take advantages of coverages breaking down during those extended plays, which isn't going to happen here. Plus this offense doesn't throw the ball a ton. Obviously he's incredibly skilled, but having another deep target and the different offense will cause problems. Tossing in missing 4 games and I'm not sure a 600ish yard season is out of the question. Think his impact should be greater than will be seen in his own stats, though.

I was thinking more in terms of what he brings to the team rather than the specific role. I think Eli, by and large, has below-average accuracy, and needed a guy he could just throw the ball up to regardless of coverage. Sanchez, honestly is for the most part a west coast QB with this bit of Favre/Romo playmaking ability. I think he needs precision and someone that can connect with him, sort of like Harrison and Wayne have done for Peyton, knowing when and where to break off their routes and all that. That's what Holmes brings to the table for us IMO. I'm not especially concerned with whatever his production is going to be, but I feel like his skill set and mentality compliments Sanchez perfectly.

[Don Vito]

You guys are looking scary, if Sanchez grows you guys will be serious contenders. Right not your o-line, skill positions, and defense are as good as any unit on the NFL but we all know how important QB is to a team's championship hopes. Sanchez has the talent, the weapons around him, and he looks to have the hear and work ethic you need to make it in this league.

Our biggest needs are our front 7 and our OL and with the way the Jets are looking all those needs are even more pressing.

[timewaster]

Marshall to the Dolphins

6 catches for 50 yards and 1 TD in 2 games vs Revis.
Brady Moss > Henne Marshall

[GET LOOSE]

Im not worried about marshall revis got his ass on lock. Plus knowing him He'll probably get suspended sometime this year anyway.

[thetedginnshow]

Definitely shouldn't underrate Marshall. He's a monster. It'll just be interesting to see how he works with that team dynamic, because up until now they've been all about under-the-radar pieces contributing to a larger picture, and now with a superstar on their hands, I wonder how everything shifts. On paper they're looking beastly, but hopefully something gets screwed up for them.

[TimD]

so looking ahead a bit who are our top 2 receivers 2 seasons from now?

my vote is Holmes as our #1 and Cotchery as the #2. then Clowney, Smith, or a rookie/FA signing playing the slot. I think Edwards will be gone. but ya never know. And I'm banking on Holmes staying straight.

[derza222]

I wouldn't be so sure Edwards isn't around. He's got a chance to really be an impact player if he can catch the ball.

Leon's signing his tender, definitely nice. Wonder if they attempt to move him and/or KC before the draft. I'd take something decent for LW and just about anything I can get for Clemens, give him his shot elsewhere that he wants and get something for a practically useless backup.

[Crickett]

Originally Posted by derza222

I wouldn't be so sure Edwards isn't around. He's got a chance to really be an impact player if he can catch the ball.

Well, with Braylon, thats the $64,000 question. I don't think he will be around, but thats because I think the answer to that question is no.

[derza222]

Originally Posted by Crickett

Well, with Braylon, thats the $64,000 question. I don't think he will be around, but thats because I think the answer to that question is no.

Yup, absolutely and odds are the answer is no. If it is yes though, he's a monster. The nice thing about the group of receivers is you have the explosive burner, the big physical guy who can make plays in the red zone and beat guys up blocking, and the consistent threat who can run after the catch. So there's a niche for each one of them, I think the other key is how much they'll get paid elsewhere and in turn what they'd ask to stick around. Edwards will (unless somebody else is brought on) be the big (literally) guy here so unless he's going to get paid a ton elsewhere he could have a role, doubt he's going to want to come reasonably no matter how much he sucks though. But he should have a role here and I think there's at least a chance he sticks around. You're right though, it is unlikely.

[HEISMANHERSCHEL]

Wow. Great job acquiring talent. Yall have turned it around quick. I am really impressed with the talent you have gained in just a couple of years. Seriously, it is impressive. Your team is, for the first time since before I was born, really really really scary!

[thetedginnshow]

A third and a fifth for Leon! That's what I predict.

[jmess15]

From Rotoworld

" The Dolphins canceled a meeting between Jason Taylor and coach Tony Sparano before the free agent left for vacation on Thursday.
Taylor has already been frustrated by the Dolphins' lack of urgency, which lends credence to the speculation that he's "leaning" toward the Jets. Still, Taylor has been hesitant to pull the trigger in the face of his agent's pressure to accept the Jets' offer. Per NFL.com's Steve Wyche, Taylor is now expected to hold off on a decision until after the draft"

Lets move on, ENUFF of this guy..he doesn't want to be here, and most in Jet Land don't want him anyway. Lets find a good kicker or backup QB and go on our way!

[derza222]

Just took a look at the roster. I saw 39 roster spots as being locked in that we couldn't really mess around with draft picks to fill. That means there are 14 spots that are probably open to players currently on the roster, draft picks, and UDFA's. So first of all, there are a ton of openings and the FO has a bunch of filling out to do. In that case, maybe a trade down makes sense to recoup picks.

However, I saw 7 guys who have a good shot at making the team in my opinion, so assume maybe 6 of them do and we sign another 2 free agents (one for losing Feely, the other to re-sign Douglas or for losing him). Those 14 spots drop down to 6, and this regime loves UDFA's. So if you leave 2 or 3 roster spots for UDFA's, maybe they'll move around a bit in the later rounds or before to try to pick up players. That changes if they draft a kicker or punter though, since that assumption included one of the kickers, punters, and long snappers on the current roster making the team.

[Crickett]

Are the Jets allowed to start signing people like other teams once training camp starts? Or the preseason?