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Old 03-02-2014, 08:30 PM    (permalink
derza222
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I like Beckham a lot. Cooks I think has a shot to be a bit more dynamic, which I think the Jets need. But I wouldn't be overly disappointed either way. Though in a perfect world - and this never happens - they could move down a bit and one or the other in the mid-20's. The Cooks thing I was thinking about before the Peter King commentary came out on Rotoworld today but now there's that too.

For WR/WR/TE, do you mean first three picks or first three rounds? Even if they take a different position in the first and spend all three day 2 picks on pass catchers I'll be happy.
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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In not particular order, if there were no Byrd signing, I would hope for a 2 WR, TE & S with the first four picks.

I like Beckham slightly better than Cooks. While I know the measurables are not the same, I envision a Cordarelle Patterson type impact from Beckham at the receiver and kick return game right away.

So much talent at the WR position in this draft, I would be disappointed if the Jets didn't take advantage in the early rounds.
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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On the topic of WR's, where do the Jets go with FA's? While drafting talent is a must, WR's take time to develop. So where is the immediate help for Geno (or Vick, lol)?

Maclin - Signed
Jones - Not really a #1, takes big hits, injured
Nicks - Pricey talent already looked down on in NY
Decker - A WR 2, that will demand #1 $$$, too much ???
Boldin -Most likely signing with SF again
Sanders - Best bet so far from this list, not scaring defenses though
Tate - Most likely signing with Seattle after they let Rice go
Rice - ..... no .....

What am I missing ???
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Old 03-02-2014, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Old School View Post
On the topic of WR's, where do the Jets go with FA's? While drafting talent is a must, WR's take time to develop. So where is the immediate help for Geno (or Vick, lol)?

Maclin - Signed
Jones - Not really a #1, takes big hits, injured
Nicks - Pricey talent already looked down on in NY
Decker - A WR 2, that will demand #1 $$$, too much ???
Boldin -Most likely signing with SF again
Sanders - Best bet so far from this list, not scaring defenses though
Tate - Most likely signing with Seattle after they let Rice go
Rice - ..... no .....

What am I missing ???



That the Jets can get a #1 receiver through the draft. If you get someone like Kelvin Benjamin or Odell Beckham or a few others, then you can add someone like Sanders or Jones to be the #2. Given the Jets already having a decent slot receiver, voila, you have a receiver corps right there. Add in a second receiver in the mid rounds, you have potentially changed the Jets receiver corps from the worst in the league to a pretty darn good one.


But alternatively, you don't have to look at it as '#1' and '#2'. Adding almost any one of the people you listed and any one (or maybe two?) of the top thirteen wide receivers in the draft would likely make the Jets receiver corps leaps and bounds better than it was last year.
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Old 03-02-2014, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Old School View Post
On the topic of WR's, where do the Jets go with FA's? While drafting talent is a must, WR's take time to develop. So where is the immediate help for Geno (or Vick, lol)?

Maclin - Signed
Jones - Not really a #1, takes big hits, injured
Nicks - Pricey talent already looked down on in NY
Decker - A WR 2, that will demand #1 $$$, too much ???
Boldin -Most likely signing with SF again
Sanders - Best bet so far from this list, not scaring defenses though
Tate - Most likely signing with Seattle after they let Rice go
Rice - ..... no .....

What am I missing ???
Nothing. "No. 1s" usually don't become available unless there's some sort of issue. And "No. 2s" get paid "No. 1" money. I personally don't care to look at it that way but it does happen. Like Peerless Price.

I think if they augment a say, James Jones signing with a pick of OBJ or Cooks, that would go a LONG way in improving the WR corps.

And I've said it many times in this thread, I'm not too concerned with "overpaying." You have the cap space, use it on players under 30 who can help you win. That's it. None of those guys are bad football players. What they are "worth" is not in a vacuum. It's relative to the market and your cap space.

It's like last year. The Seahawks absolutely "overpaid" for Cliff Avril. They also "overpaid" for Rice and Miller. Yet all of those guys contributed to a SB victory, didn't matter that they were able to/had to/chose to pay them "more than they were worth" according to people measuring such a thing in a vacuum with no context.

So if they "overpay" Decker "like a number one", ask yourself this: what SHOULD they have done instead? Saved 10s of millions in cap space to wait for... ...what exactly? Used that money on 2 mid-level guys? They can afford to extend Mo right now. They have TONS of cap space. Use it.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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So if they "overpay" Decker "like a number one", ask yourself this: what SHOULD they have done instead? Saved 10s of millions in cap space to wait for... ...what exactly? Used that money on 2 mid-level guys? They can afford to extend Mo right now. They have TONS of cap space. Use it.

What should they have done? Answer: Spend smarter.

Saved 10s of millions in cap space to wait for... ...what exactly? Answer: People worth the money they're going to get.

Used that money on 2 mid-level guys? Answer: If those two mid level guys can serve the necessary purpose and allow the Jets to sign someone else somewhere else who is better than what they would otherwise have, then yes.


Throwing money around is the Dan Snyder method of general managing. And being the ten time consecutive offseason world champions (exaggeration) got the Redskins exactly one trip to the postseason that lasted more than one game.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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The Redskins never had a QB and sucked at drafting forever. That was their problem.

I just don't see how giving Decker a deal for 6mil a year is acceptable but giving him 9 makes it bad. You need to use that money or it just sits in your owner's pocket. And there are only so many FAs you even have a chance on.

What's your definition of smart spending? Waiting for A.J. Green to be available? Never going to happen.

Give me Vick/Schaub/Hill, Ware, a WR, and Byrd and I'm thrilled. The Jets have no big contracts whatsoever. There is going to be huge cap room for the next three years. If you keep waiting, each year you are wasting money to put out a worse product.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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If we're "overpaying" for someone like Byrd or Ware, I think that makes sense because of what they would offer the team. Those Seahawks comparisons weren't the best, considering the Rice contract was an awful one (that they finally got out of), Miller I don't really think was overpaid, and Avril was on a short deal. A contract for Decker would be a long one at a premium position, so that could certainly lock us under some bad money. He's really the only one I don't want them to go after of the FA WRs. The others I could live with, even if they're not the best, since I assume none of them will command too great of contracts (though I wouldn't be very thrilled with Tate). Really, I would bring in the hometown guy in Miles Austin once he gets cut (though that's tough to wait for).

Seems like there's a strong possibility of Vick. I really don't mind, as long as he understands he could very easily be the back-up. I just don't know why he would come here to be one.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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The Rice contract proves my point.

By any standard, they "overpaid" for him. He did contribute when healthy, including some big plays during wins in crucial years to develop a QB and win the SB. But he was usually hurt, didn't produce, and the offense was fine without him.

But what did "overpaying" do to the team? Anything negative? Heck no! It didn't prevent them from signing anyone else, he helped them, was a good presence for the team. Was he making "too much" money. Sure, but it didn't matter.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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The Redskins never had a QB and sucked at drafting forever. That was their problem.
The first big Redskins spending spree included signing Jeff George and Brad Johnson. Two years after Johnson left, he was holding up a Lombardi.


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I just don't see how giving Decker a deal for 6mil a year is acceptable but giving him 9 makes it bad.
A combination of cost benefit analysis and finite resource management.


Question: What's your definition of smart spending?

Answer: Someone who is going to produce either at or above his pay grade. For an example of a Seahawk player I'd say Brandon Browner. As much as he had his problems towards the end of this past season and as much as the other cornerbacks who replaced him appeared to be improvements, he was a cheap cornerback who played at a high level for the Seahawks for several seasons.

Two examples I'd give for the Jets are Calvin Pace, who had double digit sacks while making about a million dollars and Willie Colon who provided the Jets with a quality right guard for about 1.2 million dollars. And no, I'm not saying the Jets should pay all of their players a million dollars per, I'm just citing them as examples.


I'm not against paying for players. But I am against paying the likes of T.J. Ward or Eric Decker or soon to be 32 year old DeMarcus Ware ten million dollars a year over a number of years with half of it guaranteed.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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Well, Ware is not going to command 10mil a year. And if he did for 2 years that would do literally nothing negative to the Jets cap. That's actually the guy that's 100% worth overpaying.

The Jets can sign Brandon Browner type bargains for less than 10% of their cap space.

I really think you don't seem to understand how much money they'll have to play with, not only for this year but in the future as well.

They can't extend Richardson for two offseasons, and the draft class they are about to sign for three offseasons. There is going to be so much money that you could sign literally 20 Brandon Browner types.

Just for argument's sake, if Byrd chose another team, the Jets got a WR, say Jones, you would be against signing Ward for what reason?

To use that money on who, specifically?
To save that money so Woody has it in his pocket?
To roll it over to next year so they have 100mil available?

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Old 03-02-2014, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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Well, Ware is not going to command 10mil a year. And if he did for 2 years that would do literally nothing negative to the Jets cap. That's actually the guy that's 100% worth overpaying.

The Jets can sign Brandon Browner type bargains for less than 10% of their cap space.

I really think you don't seem to understand how much money they'll have to play with, not only for this year but in the future as well.

They can't extend Richardson for two offseasons, and the draft class they are about to sign for three offseasons. There is going to be so much money that you could sign literally 20 Brandon Browner types.

I'll give you a better example, because I gave the impression I was just talking about cheap players.


Antonio Cromartie signed a 4 year 32 million dollar contract with the Jets. 14 million of it was backloaded to 2014 (at least as far as the cap goes), but even if it wasn't, I'd say he more than lived up to getting paid 8 million a year his first two seasons and likely would have this past season had he not been slowed by an injury.

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about too. And paying the players I listed earlier 10 million a year, I really don't think they'd perform up to that level. I'd like the Jets to sign DeMarcus Ware, but I don't want them to sign a 32 year old outside linebacker arguably coming off the worst season of his career to a ten million dollar a year contract.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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The Rice contract proves my point.

By any standard, they "overpaid" for him. He did contribute when healthy, including some big plays during wins in crucial years to develop a QB and win the SB. But he was usually hurt, didn't produce, and the offense was fine without him.

But what did "overpaying" do to the team? Anything negative? Heck no! It didn't prevent them from signing anyone else, he helped them, was a good presence for the team. Was he making "too much" money. Sure, but it didn't matter.
I highly disagree. I generally found him to be abysmal during his stay with the Hawks, but we can agree to disagree on his level of contribution.

Again, I have no problem "overpaying", but I just don't see any benefit to spending excess money on the wrong players (which depends on your perception of the available players).
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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He was far from abysmal. He was just always hurt. He won two games last year with game-winning catches, one in OT and one in the final minute.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Just for argument's sake, if Byrd chose another team, the Jets got a WR, say Jones, you would be against signing Ward for what reason?

To use that money on who, specifically?
To save that money so Woody has it in his pocket?
To roll it over to next year so they have 100mil available?



I'm not against signing Ward (okay, I'm a little against signing Ward, because I'm not a fan of purposely going after a players knees because you're not allowed to go after his head anymore like I think he did with Gronk), but I am against massively overpaying him.


Question: To use that money on who, specifically?

Answer: There are a whole bunch of people the Jets could sign. At safety they could go after Donte Hitner, Macolm Jenkins or Antoine Bethea. At corner they could go after DRC, Aquib Talib (although I think he's going to stay with the Patriots) or Sam Shields. At linebacker, maybe Jon Beason if the Giants let him leave, Karlos Dansby, Daryl Smith or D'Qwell Jackson. At offensive line, they could go after Jon Asamoah or Rodger Saffold to play left guard and really bring the Jets OL back to what it once was when they had Alan Faneca, Brandon Moore and Damien Woody. At quarterback, I'm hoping they can bring in McCown.

These are all just potential options. It's not like the Jets have only two or three players they have to choose from. They can go a number of different directions. They can address other positions in the draft or maybe even wait until next year to address those positions. I could see the Jets bringing Ed Reed back one more year and leave addressing a permanent solution at safety until next year while they address a host of different problems this year. Or signing one of the higher priced safeties we've mentioned in the past few posts, bring Calvin Pace back one more year and leave the long term solution at OLB to next year.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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That's fair to say you'd rather have Bethea/DRC than just Ward. But the fact is that they can afford Ward/DRC just as easily. That's pretty much my main point.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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You have to spend enough to meet 3 year average of cash spending to avoid penalty. Since the salary for 2014 makes quite a leap from 2013, Jets are going to have a hard time to meet this merit if they don't spend well for 2014.


If Jets fail to get Byrd or Sanders then Jets could start to extend Wilkerson's contract or Jets could take a stab and make a trade with Saints for Graham although I would prefer a penalty whatever it is to losing 2 first rounders.


Jets have cap room so they should go aggressively on Byrd or Ward for S spot and Orapko or Ware for OLB spot.

If Jets successfully re-sign Austin Howard this week and get Byrd and Orapko on the first business day of NFL cycle then Jets will be in a good position for everything. Otherwise, Jets could slightly overpay mediocre players without heavy signing bonus to fill up holes for 2014 season.


Jets are not in a right position for "smart business" when it comes to money. However, Jets have to be smart about talents that fit. Idzik has done good job last year so I expect he continues doing that way.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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I have never thought of it until now. Geno Smith's hand size is only 9 1/4 but he spun football well. That is good thing. However, Matt Barkley's hand size is 10 1/8 but there was the "inflatable" football for Barkley.

I guess hand size is no longer a key merit.
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YotoJets007 View Post
You have to spend enough to meet 3 year average of cash spending to avoid penalty. Since the salary for 2014 makes quite a leap from 2013, Jets are going to have a hard time to meet this merit if they don't spend well for 2014.


If Jets fail to get Byrd or Sanders then Jets could start to extend Wilkerson's contract or Jets could take a stab and make a trade with Saints for Graham although I would prefer a penalty whatever it is to losing 2 first rounders.


Jets have cap room so they should go aggressively on Byrd or Ward for S spot and Orapko or Ware for OLB spot.

If Jets successfully re-sign Austin Howard this week and get Byrd and Orapko on the first business day of NFL cycle then Jets will be in a good position for everything. Otherwise, Jets could slightly overpay mediocre players without heavy signing bonus to fill up holes for 2014 season.


Jets are not in a right position for "smart business" when it comes to money. However, Jets have to be smart about talents that fit. Idzik has done good job last year so I expect he continues doing that way.
Yup. This is my main point. They have to spend this money. If you can get a good, young player who's willing to come here (Byrd, Ward, Decker), you have to pull the trigger. You won't be able to get to the floor for this year or next any other way. If the Jets aren't able to land a big FA or too, they'd be stuck paying marginal talents big deals (either this year or next) because they'd have literally no other choice since they aren't allowed to eat the money.
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Orakpo tagged, really hope Byrd is not tagged and they make a big push for him.
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Old 03-03-2014, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Orakpo tagged, really hope Byrd is not tagged and they make a big push for him.

Bills opt not to do so. However, we still have a week.
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Old 03-03-2014, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Rex Ryan at Yankees game. Said he would draft another DL. Aaron Donald a possibility? lol.
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Rex Ryan at Yankees game. Said he would draft another DL. Aaron Donald a possibility? lol.

I'm scared it's going to be Louis Nix.
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Steelers tag Jason Worilds as a transition player. Umm. I guess it will be either young and expensive player or old and cheap player.


Seahawks tag no one. Golden Tate should be a better option if no Emmanuel Sanders.


So far, "available" players who interest me are

FS- Jarius Byrd. Not tagged as of now.
OLB- DeMarcus Ware. Cap Casualty.
OLB- Jason Worilds. Transition Tag. No compensation.
WR- Emmanuel Sanders.
WR- Golden Tate. Not tagged as of now.


Edit: Oh, I forget about Eric Decker. I omit him because Idzik or company doubt his skill set to be a successful WR for Jets.
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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Maybe it's a little too close to home for you guys, but honestly, Hakeem Nicks is the best option out there as long as he isn't commanding like double Golden Tate money. He's the only #1 out there and when healthy, he can absolutely take over a game. Plus, ever since he was coming out of UNC I've been waiting to deem him with the perfect nickname that I wouldn't dare waste on a Giants player. But anyway, injuries and headache and all, when he's on, he's on.

As for cap casualties, word is Lamarr Woodley may get released, which is someone we should absolutely pursue if he is.

And as overrated as he always was, Brandon Browner wouldn't be a bad option at CB considering cost and scheme fit. You would just have to know what you're getting.

Also, I'm not sure if we all know there was sarcasm there, but Rex said they'd draft DL as a joke. It's like an 85% chance of it being a WR.
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