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Old 03-20-2014, 12:20 AM    (permalink
gpngc
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Vick is going to bring some excitement and hope to this franchise. People don't think so now, but he will.

Obviously his health is a big question, but I suspect the fans will like him when he's on the field - even with the turnovers. Having MM is huge too.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Starting CBs for the NYJ: Darrin Walls and Dee Milliner.

Money left that could have been used for CBs: 34 Million.

lol
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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If our 2 teams didn't hate each other, a Kendrick Ellis-Alfonzo Dennard swap would make a ton of sense.
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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I'm curious to see how the defense works without elite cornerback play across the board. If Milliner continues to play like he did towards the end of last season they shouldn't be too bad. He's got legitimate #1 shadow CB potential.

If they can make things work with him and a capable #2 corner (instead of a second #1 type) it financially makes a lot more sense. But we haven't seen the defense work that well without good cornerback play because the pass rush is mostly big guys instead of speedier OLB's and safety play hasn't been excellent.

On the money end of things apparently they need to spend a ton next offseason to mit the floor, which is risky if there's not that much talent out there next offseason.

And if they think D-Jax can fit in the locker room he'd obviously be an enormous upgrade in the WR group and a pretty good complement to Decker. That's a big question mark though.
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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I'm curious to see how the defense works without elite cornerback play across the board. If Milliner continues to play like he did towards the end of last season they shouldn't be too bad. He's got legitimate #1 shadow CB potential.

If they can make things work with him and a capable #2 corner (instead of a second #1 type) it financially makes a lot more sense. But we haven't seen the defense work that well without good cornerback play because the pass rush is mostly big guys instead of speedier OLB's and safety play hasn't been excellent.

On the money end of things apparently they need to spend a ton next offseason to mit the floor, which is risky if there's not that much talent out there next offseason.

And if they think D-Jax can fit in the locker room he'd obviously be an enormous upgrade in the WR group and a pretty good complement to Decker. That's a big question mark though.
No it doesn't. Nothing makes sense about penny-pinching in a market full of good young corners while you're flush with cap space.

He messed up. Verner, Davis, or DRC should be a Jet. Or they shouldn't have bothered cutting Cro.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Since there is no team that interests in WR Miles Austin and S Chris Clemons.

With the way Idzik has been handling fiance out of players' contract, I could see Jets strike a copper on those aforementioned free agents.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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No it doesn't. Nothing makes sense about penny-pinching in a market full of good young corners while you're flush with cap space.

He messed up. Verner, Davis, or DRC should be a Jet. Or they shouldn't have bothered cutting Cro.
Long-term. Not short-term. It's pretty obvious there's no plan to win in 2014.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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How does not having a 26-28 year old No. 1 corner make sense for the long-term? With literally two players that need new deals in the next two years and plenty of cap space going forward in addition to this year.

And the second part is a load of crap. There's a plan to win in 2014. For every team. The team won 8 games last year with HORRIBLE QB play and no WRs.

Striking out on the corners is just bad. There's really no other way to spin it. Unless they get Joseph for a late-round pick.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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I wonder what the asking price is on Desean. I think he would make a great addition to out team rex can handle problem players and pairing him along side Decker would make our offense a real threat. I still want to add MJD and miles austin though i dont get why we havent picked them up yet
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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How does not having a 26-28 year old No. 1 corner make sense for the long-term? With literally two players that need new deals in the next two years and plenty of cap space going forward in addition to this year.

And the second part is a load of crap. There's a plan to win in 2014. For every team. The team won 8 games last year with HORRIBLE QB play and no WRs.

Striking out on the corners is just bad. There's really no other way to spin it. Unless they get Joseph for a late-round pick.
If they're working under the impression that Milliner is a #1 corner, then in a couple of years you're paying two corners #1 money. That wouldn't make sense. And if they think they have a #1 there's not really a need to pay for a #1. So my statement was assuming those two things - not that they're right, but I'm guessing that's Idzik's logic.

I'm not saying I've enjoyed this offseason or I would have done things this way. To me it's a big gamble on young talent on the roster panning out and basically saying that they don't really care if they're competitive in 2014.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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It's been said that Idzik slow-played the DRC situation and went hard at the last minute...

They were interested in corners - they couldn't get it done.

He wanted to get a corner. He couldn't. If he truly thought the CB position was fine, he wouldn't have pursued DRC.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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DRC does not warrant a long term contract. Jets was the first team that offered DRC a contract after Broncos pulled back their offering for him. That "Prove It" 6m sounded a good deal this time but Giants made better offer for him as DRC wasted no time and accepted it.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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I wonder what the asking price is on Desean. I think he would make a great addition to out team rex can handle problem players and pairing him along side Decker would make our offense a real threat. I still want to add MJD and miles austin though i dont get why we havent picked them up yet

The media word suggested that Eagles may not get at least 3rd round pick despite a lot of teams pondered adding him to their roster. Bucs' 4th round pick would be swell. lol.


I am pretty sure MJD and Austin are on teams' waiting list.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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MJD and Miles Austin both suck.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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The media word suggested that Eagles may not get at least 3rd round pick despite a lot of teams pondered adding him to their roster. Bucs' 4th round pick would be swell. lol.


I am pretty sure MJD and Austin are on teams' waiting list.
Well i would happily give up a 3rd for him that would give us a very nice receiving core and we would be able to use our 1st and 2nd round picks on other positions that we desperately need.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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MJD and Miles Austin both suck.
I don't agree. MJD had a down year last year and was hurt the year before but i think he would revive his career in a new atmosphere. Especially behind a better o-line and a bit better of an offensive team then the jags
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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I don't agree. MJD had a down year last year and was hurt the year before but i think he would revive his career in a new atmosphere. Especially behind a better o-line and a bit better of an offensive team then the jags
Old back with a million carries on his tires and after one bad, and one injury-riddled season, you think he'd bounce back?

It's also been proven that RB success doesn't have as much to do with supporting cast as people think. Look at MJD when he won the rushing title - the team around him sucked. Look at AD. etc.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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It's been said that Idzik slow-played the DRC situation and went hard at the last minute...

They were interested in corners - they couldn't get it done.

He wanted to get a corner. He couldn't. If he truly thought the CB position was fine, he wouldn't have pursued DRC.
What I saw was that Idzik was essentially offering a one year deal. The contract DRC with the Giants is supposedly a legit 4 year contract (I know that he signed a 5 year deal, but the point was they're probably not getting out of it early).

For a guy with effort issues, not giving him a legitimate long-term contract probably makes sense. And the essentially short-term deal jives with the thought that they probably view Milliner as a long-term #1.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Again, the Jets have literally nothing to spend money on in the future right now besides two players. Even if a bunch of their draft picks hit and they can extend those guys (3 years from now)...

Milliner being highly regarded doesn't and shouldn't preclude them from making a move from another starting caliber CB. You don't say "oh we like one CB, so we don't need the other." I mean, you might say that if you had two studs, but even then, you can never have enough CBs. That's just bogus thinking.

I'll agree to disagree.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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I think you're also taking my points too seriously. I'm not outline what I think makes sense, this is my way of trying to get into Idzik's head via thinking out loud about why he's making the decisions he's made. So if it comes across like I'm trying to rationalize what he's done, that's exactly what I'm doing.

I am curious to see how significant having two stud CB's is for the defense. Even a replacement level corner probably won't be much worse than Cromartie was last year.

EDIT:
An interesting perspective I saw on another board. Perhaps Idzik isn't all that convinced that Ryan's going to be sticking around past this season and doesn't want to make a long-term commitment to players who fit in his scheme.

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Old 03-21-2014, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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It's funny because if I was building a franchise, I'd probably always draft corners, pass rushers, and wide receivers every year simply because those are premium positions that will not only demand big contracts, but attract personalities that will demand big contracts. Instead, people always want to trade for proven talent at those positions rather than have faith in their drafting ability (or, apparently, lack thereof). However, if you look at PFF or any other place that does metrics, you'd find that beyond the top 5 or so at a position, the rest vary greatly from year to year in terms of production. No real sense in shelling out big bucks for slightly above average talent unless you don't know what you're doing.
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by derza222 View Post
I think you're also taking my points too seriously. I'm not outline what I think makes sense, this is my way of trying to get into Idzik's head via thinking out loud about why he's making the decisions he's made. So if it comes across like I'm trying to rationalize what he's done, that's exactly what I'm doing.

I am curious to see how significant having two stud CB's is for the defense. Even a replacement level corner probably won't be much worse than Cromartie was last year.

EDIT:
An interesting perspective I saw on another board. Perhaps Idzik isn't all that convinced that Ryan's going to be sticking around past this season and doesn't want to make a long-term commitment to players who fit in his scheme.
This is a very important tool to have as a follower of the game. Many fans are not able to do this. I always try to look at it from the team's perspective before completely bashing a move (TRich trade, Palmer trade, drafting of Bruce Irvin, Alualu, etc.)

But in this situation, it's pretty clear that Idzik wanted to come out of FA with a corner and failed. That's how I see it based on everything that happened. Will it ruin him? Not if he drafts well. But it's still not ideal.

As for the other thing - DRC fits about every scheme. He just got outplayed by NYG. It happens. Giants had Rolle, he chose the Giants. I blame Idzik because A) he could have had a contingency plan or addressed it earlier and B) he should have upped the offer. Now maybe he did B, then that's unfair. Oh well, it's a results business from the top down.

DRC isn't some middling talent, either. His bad years were playing out of position on a dumb team that did dumb things. It makes sense that he would have bad years given what happened there. I'd trust Ryan to get the best out of him. There's absolutely reason to bring him aboard.
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:38 AM    (permalink
derza222
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Ultimately I think Idzik's positive attribute and flaw is that he wants his guy who fits his long term plan at his price and he's completely willing to walk away if it goes higher.

I made the comparison before, but in a bad way it's like somebody in an auction draft who refuses to adjust their own values on high level players or even guys at a given position and just ends up with scraps there because they're not willing to go over the price that you came in with. Sometimes you have to adjust on the fly, hopefully he's learning that.

As for scheme, DRC does fit multiple schemes but there are certain ones where you're not going to want to invest in corners and make that position a priority. Not that I think they'll end up running that anyway, but not all teams need $8M/year corners.
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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He's even admitted to being very selective and judicious. In other words, not giving in to agents or overpaying. Being stingy. That can be good, but context is important. I still see no benefit in being overly stingy this offseason with so much cap space. Except, I guess, next year he'll have more. But next year he'll have tons anyway because they are paying no one.

We'll see what happens. A TE like Daniels or Finley would help. Or Clemons at safety.
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:47 AM    (permalink
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Yeah next year they actually have to spend. A ton. Which is interesting because that class looks reasonably weak. They'll extend Wilkerson but aside from that things will be pretty quiet in house.
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